00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.05.20 00:03:26 --- quit: XeF4 (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:03:30 --- join: XeF4 (xef4@lowfidelity.org) joined #forth 00:25:06 --- join: deluxe (~deluxe@pD9EE19F4.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 00:44:24 --- join: a7r (~a7r@206.72.82.135) joined #forth 00:45:03 --- quit: deluxe (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00:45:14 --- join: deluxe_ (~deluxe@pD9EE19F4.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 00:48:02 --- nick: deluxe_ -> deluxe 00:49:13 --- quit: deluxe (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00:49:37 --- join: deluxe (~deluxe@pD9EE19F4.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 01:11:12 --- join: Klaw (~anonymous@ip68-101-120-167.oc.oc.cox.net) joined #forth 02:06:57 --- quit: deluxe (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 02:27:01 --- quit: a7r (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 02:42:53 --- join: mur (murr@baana-62-165-187-56.phnet.fi) joined #forth 02:43:34 --- join: Speuler (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba4b8e.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth 02:44:10 hi 02:45:37 'morning 02:45:55 Hi Speuler 02:45:55 hi comrade serge 02:46:11 god dag the_rob 02:46:13 hello sergentine 02:46:16 and Robertta 02:46:21 and Speulerium 02:46:50 hi murietta 02:46:59 thanks sweety 02:48:29 --- join: deluxe (~deluxe@pD9545495.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 02:56:21 de luxe irccer, hello, royal one! 03:02:35 Yes, Sire. 03:04:39 At your service, wassup? 03:04:47 terve mur 03:04:56 i was doing yesterday graphics.. it turned quite okay 03:05:04 t~ out 03:05:27 royal deluxe isn't that a mcdonalds thing? 03:06:35 www.mcspotlight.org 03:06:37 might be i dont know 03:06:40 all the same to me 03:07:23 --- quit: deluxe (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 03:07:35 --- join: deluxe_ (~deluxe@pD9545495.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 03:41:55 --- quit: deluxe_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 03:44:45 --- join: deluxe_ (~deluxe@pD9545495.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 04:00:18 --- nick: deluxe_ -> deluxe 06:01:33 --- quit: serg_ghost ("leaving") 06:01:59 --- join: serg (~serg@h138n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #forth 07:40:02 --- quit: sifbot (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:41:31 --- join: sifbot (~sifforth@h0030657bb518.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 07:41:31 Type sifbot: (or /msg sifbot to play in private) 09:42:32 --- join: a7r (~a7r@206.72.82.135) joined #forth 09:44:31 hey 09:45:42 yo u 09:49:45 how's your ipaq dual boot goin? 09:50:37 I'm still in the design phase of things 09:50:57 I started coming up w/ the architecture last night.. and for the time being, I think I'm only going to single boot the thing. 09:52:59 any major ce/ppc differences? the tut is for ce 09:53:15 afaik 09:53:29 you'd need to run a new bootloader.. I'm going to develop using the handheld.org one. 09:56:53 sounds good. newer ipaqs have wlan onboard, drv? 09:57:27 --- join: ASau (~asau@158.250.48.197) joined #forth 09:57:32 I'm going to support the older 3600s first 09:57:50 Good evening! 09:58:48 ASau: bon soir 09:59:03 Dobry veczer, deluxe! 09:59:16 privet! 09:59:17 oho :-) 09:59:26 privet, mur! 10:00:01 privet bïl imja russkava knigi 10:00:11 ah 10:00:32 imja kniga russkava po skole bil "privet" :) 10:01:47 Usually it is not "imja knigi" but "nazvanije knigi" :) 10:02:14 Any online manual on finnish? 10:02:24 Convergence of nations? :) 10:02:26 Hi ASau :) 10:02:36 Prevet, Robert! 10:02:50 Privet 10:02:54 How many of you here today! 10:03:17 19 10:03:18 ;) 10:03:40 ASau a finnish tutorial? 10:03:46 Don't count ChanServ, and sifbot. 10:03:55 clog is also bot 10:04:07 mur: Yes, do you know one? 10:04:16 * mur wanted to make 10:04:16 one 10:04:29 but i haven't been diligent enough 10:04:32 i made one very boring :) 10:05:09 * mur wants now to do tutorial that woudl be very graphical (mostly pictures) and very newkind 10:05:17 only finnish in it :) 10:05:31 Vah! 10:05:36 Bukvar'? 10:05:47 * mur dont know that much russian anymore 10:06:01 i've forgotten in 2 years so much :/ 10:06:02 "ABC"? 10:06:27 bukvar' = ABC = alphabet? 10:06:47 Azbuka = ABC = alphabet. 10:07:03 mur: kids learn it at school? 10:07:06 bukvar sounds evil familiar :) 10:07:13 Bukvar' is the book to teach kids. 10:07:34 russian? oh no, it was optional subject in secondary grades (the ones before university level) 10:07:36 I don't know how to write soft sign in Lat 10:07:40 only 5 of us in the group 10:08:03 probably smallest group of all subjects in the city.. 10:08:11 it's rare that osmeone can speak or understand even little russian 10:08:18 I've studied German also optionally. 10:08:26 3 of us in the group 10:09:14 ;) But we can speak English or German (or French)... 10:09:26 a little, of course... 10:10:09 * mur can speak only english 10:10:18 Not finnish? 10:10:26 finnish and swedish too :) 10:10:40 i do understand french and german some but i can't create phrases in them 10:10:46 * mur has linguistic head 10:11:09 Saying: 10:11:28 Student is just like a dog, 10:11:47 he understand everything, but can't speak it out. 10:12:07 hehe 10:12:24 my russian teacher had studied russian in st. petersburg university in soviet union 10:12:49 Then it is called: Leningrad Univ. :) 10:12:58 maybe 10:13:01 :) 10:13:03 Just a joke: 10:13:27 There were two men, both called Njuton (Newton). 10:14:25 Njut_o_n was mathematician, but Nj_u_ton was physisist. 10:14:38 That's about different stressing :) 10:16:03 Today I've got an idea to share. 10:16:22 I'm planning assembly compiler. 10:16:37 Just a kind of inline assembly. 10:17:15 There're possibilities to control consistency of opcode and operands. 10:18:17 E.g.: word AX pushes 0 (AX seq.number) to stack, and switches to another context vocabulary. 10:19:11 This way, I can distinguish asm opcodes dealing with memory addresses and registers, 10:19:59 'cause word ) that defines memory address presented, switches to another context vocab. 10:21:07 Thus, 100 ) and AX lead to different vocab.-s, such a way, that 10:21:28 100 ) PUSH and AX PUSH compile different opcodes. 10:21:33 Ooh 10:21:41 * mur thought the joke is still going on :) 10:21:51 it was quite confusing :) 10:22:06 * mur laughs much 10:22:07 Joke ended with: "Today I've got idea..." 10:22:19 ;) 10:22:28 * mur was wondering which is explaining all aobut assembler 10:22:29 :) 10:22:51 Should I insert points like: <<>>? 10:23:00 no 10:23:01 :) 10:23:22 Well, I go on. 10:23:26 very well :) 10:23:58 The main drawback is inability to create asm macros. 10:24:05 Just like this one: 10:24:32 : OS-CALL # AH MOV 21 INT ; 10:24:52 Or this would be too complex. 10:25:03 I'm too lazy to write such a thing. 10:26:03 Another way is classic: make a huge amount of flags, so that: 10:27:04 : AX W SIZE ! REG ! 0 REG# ( ... ) ; 10:27:30 I don't want such thing. 10:27:43 Tooooooo many flags to set/reset. 10:28:46 Maybe, 1st idea is viable... I hope. 10:30:09 The problem is that I can't find the way to separate compiling time and executing time behaviour. 10:30:24 I'd liked something this kind: 10:31:20 : WD EXECUTING ALSO-AT-COMPILE[ COMPILING ]ALSO-AT-COMPILE EXECUTING ; 10:31:38 Any ideas? 10:32:02 Discussion mode on ;) 10:32:34 Ah! Of course : WD ... ; IMMEDIATE 10:33:31 In fact this should be: 10:33:36 re 10:34:08 : DEF ... AT-COMPILING[ ... ]AT-COMPILING ; 10:34:31 DEF WD defines already IMMEDIATE word WD 10:34:42 Good evening, Speuler! 10:34:43 that has been out for about 20 years :) 10:35:32 I don't tend to get all the hits. :) 10:35:48 CREATE creates, BUILD builds :) 10:36:17 at one point (20 years ago) people thought "what the use of two words if they do about the same" 10:36:49 My words does not do the same :) 10:37:09 ASau: bad design ? 10:37:22 No, just a different one. 10:37:55 oh. you're into retro-forth ? 10:38:10 fig 10:38:15 does your tick return the pfa, by any chance ? 10:38:26 Of course. 10:41:21 But that does no influence on asm :) 10:43:30 FYI: : CODE CREATE SMUDGE ; CREATE creates low-level words, it does not inline or reserve space for latter DOES>-inlined routine. create xxx xxx ( crash ) 10:44:34 Of course :) 10:45:15 But CREAT XXX CD C, 20 C, provides correct termination under DOS :) 10:45:29 on XXX execution. 10:45:38 xxx (word not found) 10:46:04 SMUDGE :) 10:46:51 : int, cd c, c, ; code: xxx hex 20 int, ; 10:47:28 terminates only com files (or exe when segments are the same) 10:47:40 won't work if DS <> CS 10:48:16 It will. You should point ES to PSP. 10:48:21 "correct ermination under dos" is too sweeping for int 20 10:48:40 That does not matter. I know all this. 10:48:41 think it was dos fn 4b which did that 10:48:54 4c 10:48:57 ah 10:49:34 IIRC, anyway ES should point to PSP. 10:49:50 RBIL is handy :) 10:50:03 jmp 0 10:50:20 jmp 0 is equivalent to int 20 10:50:26 yes 10:50:39 In this case you should have CS to point to PSP :) 10:50:55 definitely 10:51:18 That's a more strict condition, isn't it? 10:51:23 ;0 10:51:25 ;) 10:51:37 if segregs modded, 4c 10:51:50 if not, whatever 10:52:53 ax ax xor ax es mov where-that-pointer-lives ) far jmp 10:53:22 That does not save, of course :0 10:54:06 * ASau tests: shift-shift-shift... 10:55:05 It should work... 10:55:13 Shift, I mean. 10:56:00 So what do you think about my asm plans? 10:56:19 don't know about any of your asm plans 10:56:48 See above there ^^^^^^^^ 10:56:55 about 6-7 pages 10:56:59 cd 20 ? 10:57:26 No about vocabulary switching and macro problems. 10:58:10 yes, i can see quite a long monolog 10:58:17 Everything starts with my words "Today I've got idea to share" 10:58:20 i'm still looking for the mentioned plans 11:03:02 Well, I should go. 11:03:10 Do svidanija! 11:03:13 --- quit: ASau ("Toffee IRC client for DOS v1.0/b535") 11:19:53 * Speuler dislikes this recent devoicing and banning business 11:39:50 --- join: Klaw` (~anonymous@ip68-101-120-167.oc.oc.cox.net) joined #forth 11:54:40 --- quit: Klaw (Connection timed out) 11:54:40 --- nick: Klaw` -> Klaw 12:16:11 hi speuler 12:18:35 hi deluxe 12:23:50 banning business? did i miss out anything? 12:26:27 or are you fine pointing.. nm 12:26:47 just looking at the ban list 12:27:29 banned person says he was devoiced on several occasions before 12:27:55 guess i'll get out before i'm banned too 12:30:46 what ban list r u talkink about? 12:53:05 --- part: Speuler left #forth 13:17:50 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@ip68-8-206-137.sd.sd.cox.net) joined #forth 13:58:33 --- join: crc (~crc@ACC843F0.ipt.aol.com) joined #forth 13:59:42 --- quit: crc (Client Quit) 15:09:17 --- quit: deluxe ("Client exiting") 15:25:05 --- quit: a7r (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 16:42:54 --- join: a7r (~a7r@206.72.82.135) joined #forth 16:44:17 yoh 16:44:38 re 16:44:46 hey kc5tja 17:04:39 OK, time for my last final exam. 17:05:06 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK") 17:22:30 --- join: thin (~thin@198.162.21.164) joined #forth 17:23:16 poppavic was never banned. +q is not a ban. it looks like a ban on the mode list but it's an extra feature with freenode 17:23:17 asdf 17:23:38 --- mode: ChanServ set +o thin 17:23:42 --- mode: thin set -b poppavic!*@* 17:23:59 watch 17:24:25 --- mode: thin set +q poppavic!*@* 17:24:28 --- mode: thin set -q poppavic!*@* 17:24:33 --- mode: thin set +q poppavic!*@* 17:24:34 watch what? 17:24:40 --- mode: thin set -b poppavic!*@* 17:24:59 a +q mode can be removed using -b 17:25:08 +q is quiet. +b is ban. two different things 17:25:17 *nod* 17:25:21 (i am speaking to everyone on the channel) 17:25:25 wow 17:25:29 i knew that already 17:25:48 mur: good. i don't want any misunderstandings 17:25:54 speuler misunderstood and left 17:27:00 --- mode: thin set -o thin 17:27:14 --- quit: thin (Client Quit) 17:27:42 politics are lame 17:28:04 i actually almost like the fact there are no ops on this network sometimes 17:45:57 --- quit: mur ("MURR!") 17:52:20 --- join: tcn (~tcn@tc2-login39.megatrondata.com) joined #forth 17:52:40 hallohallo 17:57:42 greetz 18:11:08 --- quit: a7r (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18:26:36 --- quit: tcn ("TinyIRC 1.1") 18:50:07 --- quit: Stepan ("disconnecting from stoned server.") 19:07:25 --- quit: Fractal (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:21:52 --- join: Fractal (nyzsfc@new.cure.for.SARS.found.to.be.strongLSD.com) joined #forth 21:01:02 --- quit: TreyB (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 21:14:48 --- join: a7r (~a7r@206.72.82.135) joined #forth 21:57:09 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@ip68-8-206-137.sd.sd.cox.net) joined #forth 22:25:21 --- join: Fractal_ (fghez@new.cure.for.SARS.found.to.be.strongLSD.com) joined #forth 22:25:21 --- quit: Fractal (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 22:25:49 --- nick: Fractal_ -> Fractal 22:36:29 hi :) 22:37:00 Fractal: what's the root of yor nick ? 22:37:10 had a fun w/ fractals ? 22:37:44 Heh... I don't even remember 22:37:58 I used to think they were neat (years and years ago) and the name has just stuck... 22:39:23 * serg has fixed idea of writing a game w/ fractal world 22:39:37 Ya? That'd be neat.. 22:40:08 but how to make random world interesting... 22:40:32 try to sim reality ? or wild math picture ? 22:40:46 Heh dunno... 22:41:09 ho do you see the game ? genre ? 22:41:28 Uh... It's your game... 22:41:54 And I don't play many games... 22:42:21 i only know what it _won't_ be - stupid flying over 'plasma' or 'mandelbrot' 22:42:40 Heh ya... 22:54:51 I know it sounds strange, but I'm finding I'm liking VMS's command-line conventions a lot. I can see where AmigaOS got its influence from, that I've always known about. But, still, VMS is the single most powerful CLI environment I've seen to date. Egads. 22:59:27 kc5tja: online VMS manual ? Win/UNIX shell port ? 23:00:12 * serg likes writing CLI-driven proggies 23:00:23 especially in Forth :) 23:00:40 but i wrote one even in MS Q-Basic 23:00:56 There is no online VMS manual that I'm aware of; I'm looking at various tutorials. 23:01:05 But in particular, take the PRINT command as an example. 23:01:26 You can print all files to a particular queue with the following command: PRINT/QUEUE=whatever file1,file2,file3... 23:01:38 Or you can direct individual files to a particular queue: 23:01:52 PRINT file1/QUEUE=printer1,file2/QUEUE=printer2,...etc.. 23:01:56 Or you can do both: 23:02:09 PRINT/QUEUE=defaultPrinter file1,file2/QUEUE=otherPrinter,file3,file4,... 23:02:45 AmigaOS uses more English-like constructs, but the idea is the same: 23:03:08 PRINT TO printer1 FROM file1 file2 TO printer2 FROM file3 file4 ...etc... 23:03:13 Bah... You can do that with unix too... The real strength of VMS comes in with it's automatic revision control system. 23:03:25 Fractal: Sorry, you cannot do that with Unix. 23:03:35 You have to use multiple invokations of lpr to do it. 23:04:27 Precisely... A more elegant approach anyways. :) 23:04:39 Fractal: I disagree. 23:04:43 VMS was OK, though... Not something I'd want to go back to though 23:05:00 My first internet access was dialing up into a VAX, incidentally... 23:05:58 The last time I used a VAX was well before our local college had Internet access. 23:06:09 (well, before the VAX had it at least) 23:06:13 But I was a teenager then. 23:06:23 And I didn't really get into the internals of the CLI environment very much. 23:06:23 There were a lot of stupid things with VMS too, though. The permission system was unmanagable... 23:06:37 RWED is more flexible than just RWX. 23:06:42 Yeah, me neither... Truth be told, I mainly uses VMS for telneting into unix machines... 23:06:47 used, that is 23:07:21 I used VMS for general purpose computing, and I do remember enjoying it quite a bit. 23:07:31 However, I agree, VMS did have some seemingly artificial limitations. 23:07:38 E.g., a max directory depth of 8, for example. 23:07:55 But if you were to combine VMS and Unix, you'd pretty much get AmigaOS's shell environment. 23:08:01 Really? That would be a pain... 23:08:17 Yeah, though I never exceeded the 8 level limit myself. 23:08:19 Also VMS's lack of a virtual file system was a serious drawback as well... 23:08:29 VMS 'drives' were a real pain... 23:08:32 Actually, people didn't realize this, but it DID have such a filesystem implementaiton. 23:08:44 And if you misplaced a file in VMS, say goodbye to it forever.. :) 23:08:55 Not any different than Unix. 23:09:08 I actually prefer "drives" over a single, homogeneous directory tree. 23:10:08 It makes substantially more sense in the face of removable media. 23:10:13 Well VMS did permit you to span a filesystem over multiple drives but it didn't have an adaptable, relocatable, transparent, virtual filesystem like (modern) unix has. 23:10:34 In what way is the Unix FS adaptable, relocatable, transparent, and virtual? 23:12:35 well, I can see transparent and virtual (e.g., use of installable filesystem drivers); however, VMS also supported the concept (it was just rarely, if ever, used). 23:12:39 Well, it's virtual in the sense that you (the program) don't deal with the individual filesystems directly, you handle a virtual filesystem. Unix filesystems are %100 transparent for this reason as well... There is no difference in handling a floppy's filesystem to a HDDs. Contrast this to VMS's filesystem where different operations were required for tapes and disks 23:13:02 Umm... 23:13:03 tar? 23:13:33 tar is a relic from old unixes that didn't have proper virtual filesystem implementations. 23:14:15 Also, Unix filesystems aren't 100% transparent either. A FAT filesystem under Linux has several limitations over ext2fs, and the NTFS filesystem for Linux definitely does NOT support the multiple forks that NTFS naturally supports. 23:14:33 Relocatable in that a filesystem can be mounted relative to any directory... That is a very big bonus... 23:15:06 And a huge hinderance at the same time. 23:15:18 True. Obviously not all filesystems can be perfectly identical in how they are handled. 23:16:06 Don't get me wrong... I'm a big proponent of filesystem metadata 23:16:24 (heh -- actually, I'm for its minimization. :)) 23:16:38 * kc5tja is just saying that Unix isn't the panacea that everyone thinks it is. 23:16:55 Which, incidentally, has been how macintosh has handled icons, etc, etc for more than a decade 23:17:02 * kc5tja nods 23:17:15 No, but it's a big step forward (in most respects, I feel) from VMS 23:17:16 AmigaOS is the best mixture of the two worlds, I think. 23:17:20 Can't speak for amigaOS, though 23:17:28 Well, VMS is a huge step forward from Unix in several respects too. 23:18:08 AmigaOS's shell environment, for one, is EXTREMELY user friendly -- way superior to Unix's cryptic commands and bizarre (and sometimes unintelligable) options. 23:18:32 The run-time environment of AmigaOS is largely similar to that of VMS; actually a refinement of it. 23:18:55 The only thing I prefered in VMS over unix was the built in file revision control... Much nicer than dealing with ci/co 23:18:59 There is *ONE* kernel primitive which can put the task to sleep -- aptly called Wait(). As you might expect, it waits on up to 32 events (any events you desire). 23:19:58 Signal() is used to wake a task with one or more signals (which can either invoke a subroutine Unix-style or flag an event notification. USUALLY, it's the latter, because it was faster, easier to write code for, and allowed for greater than 32 individual event sources). 23:20:37 Message passing and semaphores were the only IPC mechanisms used in AmigaOS, and of those, message passing was used 99.8% of the time (in fact, semaphores weren't added to the kernel until release 1.2). 23:20:48 As you might expect, message passing was asynchronous. 23:21:14 As a result, AmigaOS achieved multitasking performance on a 7MHz machine that still rivals (and even flat out beats) my Linux box on my 800MHz Athlon. 23:23:16 7 MHz, eh? Must be a 68020? 23:23:22 68000 23:23:44 68020 machines were generally run at 14.31818MHz, and the 68030/68040 machines were run all the way up to 50MHz. 23:23:49 Oh really? So there's no memory protection? 23:23:53 Nope. 23:24:02 Never had it, and never needed it. 23:24:28 Back then, people developed software the proper way -- with attention to detail and through actual application testing. 23:24:52 *cough* 23:25:31 AmigaOS to this day still doesn't rely on the MMU for memory protection. 23:25:46 (you can get a software patch that uses it for virtual memory support, however) 23:27:14 And when the system did crash (it did happen; humans aren't perfect), reboot time was generally less than 15 seconds on a floppy-booted system, so it wasn't nearly the inconvenience as it is with modern systems. 23:29:32 This is why the Amiga has such a huge, fanatically-devoted following of supporters, even to this day. 23:29:42 It's a pity they let the platform die. :( 23:33:05 The single best feature of the Amiga's CLI environment has to be its wildcard matching system. 23:33:13 It's the only system I'm aware of that supports logical NOT. 23:33:29 list ~(#?.c) 23:33:39 will list all files that DO NOT end in .c extension, for example. 23:34:09 # is a prefix meaning "any number of", and ? is a wildcard character meaning "any character." Hence, #? means "any number of any character," the same as * in Unix. 23:34:44 However, list ~#?.c will not work as expected, as ~ will negate only the #?, and thus, will list only the file ".c" if it exists. 23:36:44 As you might expect, it's trivial to do the equivalent of "make clean" under Unix: del ~((#?.(c|h|txt))|makefile) 23:40:31 I think I prefer "make clean" to that ;) 23:41:03 I'm just demonstrating how AmigaOS is better than Unix in some ways. 23:41:35 I cannot believe that Unix has, after all these years, still not evolved a proper way to logically negate a wildcard search pattern. 23:42:19 I don't have much software for my Amiga, just lots of games. And it's not really stable anymore... 23:42:40 My Amiga 500 is still going strong, and is solid as a rock. 23:42:42 So I have no idea how good its OS is :) 23:43:09 I think the floppy drive is half-broken.. and the mouse is more than that. 23:43:12 Is it floppy based or do you boot from harddrive? 23:43:17 Floppy. 23:43:23 Well, there is half your problem. 23:43:41 Floppies don't last more than a year, and modern floppies just don't last more than a few weeks it seems. 23:43:48 * serg had an idea of buying Ami, but had no waste money :) 23:44:09 Plus you can still use the Amiga without a mouse. 23:44:25 The left AMIGA key and right AMIGA keys, in conjunction with the arrow keys, can be used to emulate the mouse. 23:44:25 Robert: on what media your games are ? 23:44:28 Yeah, but the GUI gets a bit less useful. 23:44:31 serg: Floppies. 23:44:38 Oh, cool. 23:44:43 Robert: Then upgrade the OS. :) 23:44:47 Robert: what kind of ? 23:44:51 I'll try that. 23:45:01 serg: 3.5" 23:45:14 Robert: Hehe -- unless you have a 68030 don't bother. Anything less than a 68030 isn't supported anymore, and AmigaOS 4.0 requires a PowerPC CPU card. 23:45:33 Robert: Actually, what kind of Amiga do you have? 23:45:36 A500. 23:45:39 Robert: if i buy, will u share ? 23:45:50 Robert: Kickstart 1.3 or 2.04/2.1? 23:46:09 serg: If you buy an amiga, I think they'll give you some floppies :) 23:46:18 kc5tja: No idea.. how do I find out? 23:46:33 Robert: can it be plugged to SVGA CRT ? 23:46:34 Robert: It tells you when you boot the machine. 23:46:42 AmigaDOS 1.2/1.3/2.04/etc. 23:46:43 OK, wait. 23:46:53 1.2 23:46:57 serg: No, an Amiga 500 cannot (without a scan converter). 23:47:12 kc5tja: so what one can ? 23:47:20 Robert: OK, your machine is old. Not only do you need to find some 2.04 ROMs, but your motherboard needs to be hacked to support the 512K ROM size 23:47:34 * serg has 17'' CRT 23:47:35 Ah, mouse emulation works! 23:47:35 serg: Amiga 3000 or 4000 come native with VGA ports. 23:47:57 kc5tja: are you Amiga expert ? 23:48:00 kc5tja: Hehe, no way I'm doing that :) I'm usually just playing Gravity Force on it. 23:48:10 serg: I used to be. :) It's been years since I've been active in the market though. 23:48:35 kc5tja: How do you click using the simulated mouse? 23:48:45 * kc5tja has plans to resurrect his Amiga 500 for the creation of music (LIVE music, e.g., recording my guitar, effects processing, etc) 23:48:51 --- join: Jim7J1AJH (~jwt@n1.dskk.co.jp) joined #forth 23:48:53 * serg wants to play old pre-PC games to get soaked in the spirit of era and scene, to write some replicas on PC :) 23:49:20 Jim7J1AJH: Morning :) 23:49:26 Robert: I forgot actually. I think for a left-click, you first press the left Amiga key, then the right Amiga key, then release. For a right-click, you first press the rigth Amiga key, then the left. 23:49:37 BRB 23:50:12 kc5tja: I found out, it was left Amiga key + Alt 23:50:18 Ahh 23:50:24 Well, I'm not infallible. :) 23:50:29 Like I said, it's been a few years. :D 23:51:27 Weeee! Long time since I was playing with 'say'. 23:51:29 re Jim7J1AJH; I didn't expect you to stop by here. Didn't know you had an interest in Forth. 23:51:34 Robert: Heheh :) 23:51:37 We used to use Amigas in my old school. 23:51:42 That was like...10 years ago. 23:51:55 Yeah, they took Say out of Kickstart 2.1 and later. >:( Commodore never renewed the license for the patented software they were using. Bummer! 23:52:03 --- join: hovil (~matt@CommSecureAustPtyLtd.sb1.optus.net.au) joined #forth 23:52:26 Oh :( 23:52:57 But, if you do a Google search for AmigaOS screen shots, you'll find that the GUI was and IS very much alive and is being maintained. 23:53:07 You just need a more up-to-date machine to use them. 23:54:23 http://os.amiga.com/os4/OS4GUIPre.php <-- OS 4.0, right from the horse's mouth. :) 23:55:56 Sexy 23:56:57 "Error: User is not paying attention" <-- heh. 23:58:38 those pixmap'd widget aren't my thing =( 23:58:56 like something more like... http://os.amiga.com/os4/OS4GUIPre.php?d=Screen7_P3.png 23:59:04 What does the Amiga scene look like today? I haven't seen any ads for a long time ;) 23:59:24 I agree, I'm not the garish type myself. But even OS 4 supports the Kickstart 2/3 appearance. 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/03.05.20