00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.05.17 00:13:56 --- join: jdamisch (jdamisch@207.191.240.36) joined #forth 00:14:02 hi 00:26:27 --- quit: Soap` () 00:36:34 hi 02:28:32 --- join: Klaw` (~anonymous@ip68-101-120-167.oc.oc.cox.net) joined #forth 02:44:04 --- join: mur (murr@baana-62-165-186-206.phnet.fi) joined #forth 02:51:15 hi 02:51:53 :) 02:52:10 its 2:44am here in portland or 02:52:45 do you know Forth? 02:54:25 not much 02:54:41 do you know DOES> 02:54:52 nope :/ 02:55:04 Robert! do you know? 02:55:06 it is a good word to know 02:55:10 Robert is smart, he might know 02:55:11 yes 02:55:39 many other probably know if you can manage to wake them up 02:55:40 ;) 02:56:17 i will not fall asleep yet 02:56:27 do you know CREATE? 02:56:45 * mur 's forth knowledge is at stage 2 of 10 million :P 02:56:59 what Forth do you have? 02:57:21 currently none, not any other programm.. hmm 02:57:36 is this your computer? 02:57:42 borland c++ builder 3 seems to be on this computer 02:57:50 well yes, but i'm in windows 95 instead of linux :) 02:57:59 * mur came to play one game :) 02:58:09 tha doesn't run in emulators 02:58:14 i'm in 98 02:58:33 if you are interested in Forth, then why don't you have a Forth on your machine 02:58:45 i have on linux 02:58:46 it helps to have a Forth to experiment with directly. 02:58:56 at work? 02:59:00 sifbot is forth parser :) 02:59:13 really? 02:59:24 sifbot: ." hello world" 02:59:26 mur: 02:59:57 what can you use it for? 03:00:19 i don't know much about bots 03:00:38 sifbot: help 03:00:40 mur: Word not found: help 03:00:59 you say sifbot: and then write forth code. 03:01:01 sifbot: pac-man 03:01:02 jdamisch: Word not found: pac-man 03:01:05 ;) 03:01:23 sifbot: hydrogen 03:01:24 jdamisch: Word not found: hydrogen 03:01:28 sifbot: :hello ." hello world " ; hello 03:01:30 mur: Word not found: :hello 03:01:41 the bot must be upset somehow 03:02:08 maybe it needs a tune-up? :^) then it will feel better 03:02:17 there are only few commands in it 03:02:28 does it log? 03:02:36 i dont know 03:02:39 is it logging the irc session. 03:02:42 but clog logs channel activity :) 03:02:47 i dont think so 03:03:28 irc is interesting to me 03:03:38 what do you use your bot for? 03:03:59 it is not mine bot. bot is program that is programmed to react to irc texts 03:04:12 like client with no user chatting 03:05:20 bots use the irc texts as input and output.. 03:05:31 i see 03:05:39 what are the sifbot commands? 03:05:43 sifbot can execute forth program you write 03:05:57 you start the line with "sifbot: " and then write forth program 03:05:58 is it just a forth extension language? 03:06:12 clog is passive bot, it only logs the activity on channel(s) 03:06:28 i dont remember what forth it ran 03:06:29 sifbot: : pac-man 10 0 do i . cr loop ; 03:06:31 jdamisch: 03:06:34 sifbot: pac-man 03:06:36 jdamisch: Word not found: pac-man 03:06:49 it doesnt record the data 03:06:58 so you ought to end the line to some command 03:07:16 how big can a line be? 03:07:19 how long 03:07:27 i dont think it writes empty lines 03:07:39 * mur wild guess is 255 chars :) 03:08:00 why didn't my word PAC-MAN compile? 03:08:25 you coudl also send message, like: /msg sifbot 43 emit 03:08:42 you shoudl do it like this: 03:09:03 1) sifbot: : pac-man 10 0 do i . cr loop ; pac-man 03:09:13 or 2) /msg sifbot : pac-man 10 0 do i . cr loop ; pac-man 03:10:17 sifbot: pac-man 03:10:19 jdamisch: Word not found: pac-man 03:10:26 word not found 03:10:33 i tried 2) 03:10:45 well it does not store pac-man. you need to use the declared data immediately 03:10:49 one one line 03:10:52 all code 03:10:54 i don't have permission to compile on sifbot 03:11:00 no 03:11:06 Oh, I see 03:11:08 it removes the memory after the line ends 03:11:09 all on one line only 03:11:21 instead of FORGET 03:11:31 255 chars of Forth 03:12:21 i executed it and i don't see the numbers 03:13:22 or, is it only on your screen? 03:14:19 * mur does not know 03:14:26 Robert! Robert! :) 03:14:29 come here 03:14:36 i don't know why i keep thinking its you 03:14:42 i am very tierd 03:14:51 sifbot: 1 2 3 . . . 03:14:53 mur: 3 2 1 03:15:10 sifbot: 1 2 3 4 . . . . 03:15:11 jdamisch: 4 3 2 1 03:15:28 -> *sifbot* 1 2 . . 3 . 2 1 3 03:15:30 sifbot: 2 3 + . 03:15:32 jdamisch: 5 03:16:12 1 2 3 - + . 03:16:19 sifbot: 1 2 3 - + . 03:16:20 mur: 0 03:16:24 sifbot 1 2 3 4 + + + . 03:16:38 oh 03:16:43 sifbot: 1 2 3 4 + + + . 03:16:44 jdamisch: 10 03:18:08 sifbot: test 0 10 0 do i + loop ; test 03:18:09 jdamisch: Word not found: test 03:18:14 word not found test 03:18:18 you can't define words? 03:18:32 i like sifbot 03:19:11 sifbot: : test 0 10 0 do i + loop ; test 03:19:13 jdamisch: 03:19:20 it defined 03:19:48 no output 03:20:05 sifbot: : test 0 10 0 do i + loop ; test . 03:20:07 jdamisch: 45 03:20:11 i'm so tierd 03:20:15 yes yes i like sifbot 03:20:17 its cool 03:20:23 how come we don't get forget 03:20:23 you coudl go sleep and come back tomorrow :) 03:20:43 in like 10 mint 03:20:45 in like 10 minutes 03:21:42 how could it save your code? 03:21:50 is a question i will ask rober 03:21:51 is a question i will ask robert 03:21:55 sometime 03:21:59 Robert havn't made that 03:22:00 someone else 03:22:11 who? 03:22:11 but i cant remember now who :/ 03:22:26 but robert knows? 03:22:32 maybe 03:22:40 no, he wouldn't 03:22:50 but he knows some about sifbot 03:22:54 this is dumb, i' 03:22:59 this is dumb, i'm going to bed 03:23:31 ok 03:23:32 good night! 03:23:41 if it could save my code, then we could have ascii art wars with it 03:23:47 good night :^) 03:23:48 ;) 03:23:52 --- quit: jdamisch () 03:49:36 --- join: crc (~crc@AC952F3A.ipt.aol.com) joined #forth 04:51:25 --- join: deluxe (~deluxe@pD9545CFD.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 04:51:30 salut 04:52:33 'morning 04:52:38 terve mestari! :) 04:52:51 grias eich 04:53:47 mur: :-) erm, that means in english ..? 04:54:09 hello master :) 04:54:19 that's bavarian. grias = greet eich=you (plural) 04:54:21 morjen, speuler 04:54:50 hello master speuler ;-) 04:54:50 hi deluxe 04:55:51 i'm fully on-line again now 04:56:04 fully means, network installation in new location completed 04:56:49 wohooo! 04:58:00 think i'll try the network-over-powercable things 04:58:24 those have the potential to simplify network setup considerably 04:59:02 especially if power cable is split inside of the machine, leading to the nic internally 04:59:11 just plug in, ready 04:59:39 "let's put the server somewhere else" ... 05:00:46 i'll take some snapshots of the surroundings when i find my camera again 05:01:16 some1 interested in a wiki website for this chan? 05:01:21 yes 05:01:35 was considering to put a wiki on forthfreak.net 05:01:49 but haven't put any efforts into that one yet 05:02:27 what do you like to have on the wiki? 05:02:32 stuff 05:02:46 peoples projects and project ideas 05:02:52 collection of forth stuff 05:03:00 code libs 05:03:46 interested in wikibots etc. also? 05:04:13 what would a wikibot do ? you mean, code for, or a wikibot running ? 05:04:36 running wikibot 05:04:42 doing what ? 05:05:09 assisting proj work eg. 05:05:18 how ? 05:06:13 i wouldn't think of putting a bot on for sake of putting a bot on, but to use the bot's functionality 05:06:29 as an easy start eg., collecting/.../publishing #posted links 05:06:40 ah. 05:06:50 a bot, observing the channel output 05:07:40 that sounds like a tasks for an irc bot 05:07:41 i'm interested in uml xml rdf etc. atm ... 05:08:03 which interacts with the wiki site 05:09:26 for example, yes 05:11:27 uml and xml is not that tight related, but imaginations in that direction can be fantastic 05:14:45 any feedback, ideas, pointers greatly appreciated... 05:17:40 i'm very much interested who in the # is interested in similar things 05:18:28 * crc is interested 05:18:36 --- quit: Speuler (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 05:20:02 crc: worked w/ rdf yet? 05:20:02 --- join: Speuler (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba4af6.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth 05:20:09 or rss? 05:20:20 wb speuler 05:20:27 what's the last thing i said ? 05:20:55 I've done a little work on rdf/rss parsers in the past 05:21:23 which interacts with the wiki site 05:21:34 for example, yes 05:21:35 could be done through a clog analyser 05:21:35 wger -spider to test whether it is a valid link, 05:21:35 wget 05:21:35 and into the page of links 05:21:35 i'd consider to use my forth-cgi stuff for the site 05:21:37 but no idea yet what to use as wiki 05:21:39 maybe the zope-based wiki moudule 05:21:41 onetom could probably enlighten us 05:22:08 daily dsl reconnect ... 05:22:27 LOL 05:22:59 pity there isn't a 2.3mbit flat ;-) 05:23:11 actually, here on the country side, adsl is a bit quicker than in the city 05:23:36 i'm consistently above 90 kb/s here. in munich, it was 80...85 05:23:49 same provider 05:24:45 tdsl 92 w/ ms 89 w/ any linux :-( 05:26:57 Speuler: in munich qdsl would be fairly good, no? 05:28:00 deluxe: 85 05:28:07 tlink 05:29:25 qdsl is 2300/2300 for 99 i think, but no flat 05:30:23 i'm paying 19.95 for flat 05:30:25 768 kb 05:30:49 * deluxe is looking for a cheap rackserver 05:30:58 any ideas? 05:31:25 Speuler: and upstream? 05:31:49 --- nick: mur -> mur__A 05:33:23 128 kb 05:33:26 kbit 05:33:50 but, as i'm using rented root servers, i don't care about upstream much 05:34:38 fully dedicated? how much? 05:34:43 for uploading a couple of dozens mb, it takes a while, but once it has been uploaded, download from there is quick 05:35:19 1700 athlon , 256 mb, 40 gb hd, 60 gb traffic/month. 40 EUR/m 05:35:31 --- nick: mur__A -> mur 05:37:52 Speuler: and the stream from/to there is ? 05:38:05 100 mbit/s 05:38:29 provider is uplinked through 3 gb/s 05:38:45 that's an argument... 05:39:44 i copied a tarred preinstalled linux, 55 mb, in about 5 secs from on to another machine across the net 05:39:47 one 05:40:15 from one root server to another, different providers 05:40:46 wouldn't mind to have 100 mbit up/ and downstream here in the office :) 05:45:38 so'n server, da wuerde auch das wiki drauf laufen 05:46:03 lauft debian drauf 05:47:12 hm woody? 05:47:43 joh 05:48:24 've put sid into sources, but all packages put on hold 05:48:46 so i can specifically select what i want to install from unstable 05:51:36 --- join: deluxe_ (~deluxe@pD9545CFD.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 05:52:52 joh 05:52:52 've put sid into sources, but all packages put on hold 05:52:52 so i can specifically select what i want to install from unstable 05:53:07 --- quit: deluxe (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:53:20 --- join: deluxe__ (~deluxe@pD9545CFD.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 05:53:22 --- quit: deluxe_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:53:34 joh 05:53:35 've put sid into sources, but all packages put on hold 05:53:35 so i can specifically select what i want to install from unstable 05:54:16 --- nick: deluxe__ -> deluxe 05:55:14 --- quit: deluxe (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:55:24 --- join: deluxe__ (~deluxe@pD9545CFD.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 05:55:56 --- nick: deluxe__ -> deluxe 05:56:57 hope the adapter survived 06:01:31 Speuler: what about moinmoin python wiki? 06:01:55 that might be the zope one. zope is python based 06:02:24 usemodwiki is in perl, i think 06:02:59 MoinMoin is a Python WikiClone, based on PikiPiki 06:05:31 what a stupid name for a wiki.. "MoinMoin" 06:06:34 Like, everytime in the morning, when I come to work and I know i have to do documentation instead of hacking sth nice, I have to face the fact that the wiki is called "good morning, good morning" 06:06:45 hi Stepan ! 06:06:50 Hey Speuler 06:16:29 --- join: ez4 (~ez4@pcp01518726pcs.reding01.pa.comcast.net) joined #forth 06:40:09 * Speuler alias PhoodPhrenzy 07:10:27 --- join: deluxe_ (~deluxe@pD9545CFD.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 07:11:03 --- quit: deluxe (Killed (NickServ (Ghost: deluxe_!~deluxe@pD9545CFD.dip.t-dialin.net))) 07:11:28 --- join: deluxe (~deluxe@pD9545CFD.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 07:13:18 --- nick: deluxe -> deluxe^ 07:13:30 --- nick: deluxe_ -> deluxe 07:13:48 http://uche.ogbuji.net/uche.ogbuji.net/tech/akara/nodes/2003-01-01/pyxml-akara 07:15:49 Speuler: what do you think? 07:19:13 --- nick: deluxe^ -> deluxe| 07:39:34 --- join: PoppaVic (~pfv@s127.waters.gtlakes.com) joined #forth 07:55:40 --- quit: crc ("I was using TinyIRC! Visit http://www.tinyirc.net/ for more information.") 08:18:49 --- join: crc (~crc@AC952F3A.ipt.aol.com) joined #forth 08:21:04 --- quit: crc (Client Quit) 08:53:33 re 08:53:45 roh 08:56:49 rah rah 08:57:44 * Speuler feels sufficiently saturated and releases a hearty "burp" 09:05:13 aha 09:05:35 and else? 09:06:42 --- join: gengar (~ritchie@rsmith.ccc.ox.ac.uk) joined #forth 09:07:22 Speuler: what about putting 4suite/aka/ on forthfreak.de ? 09:07:23 * Robert listens to Gwar. Now I'm strongly associating animal sex with Speuler... 09:32:03 deluxe: *grin* 09:33:21 fucking an animlal - i'm proud on what i do - fucking an animal - i had great time at the zoo ... 09:33:34 i find that hilarious 09:33:49 very visual 09:43:33 --- quit: deluxe (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:43:35 --- quit: deluxe| (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:46:23 --- join: deluxe (~deluxe@pD9545CFD.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 09:48:19 --- quit: deluxe (Client Quit) 09:49:32 --- nick: mur -> mur__A 10:05:50 --- join: deluxe (~deluxe@pD9545CFD.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 10:21:18 --- nick: mur__A -> mur 10:54:51 --- quit: Speuler (Remote closed the connection) 11:08:29 --- quit: deluxe (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:08:51 well, the ABI stuff is coming along.. Enhanced to lead into a VM.. *sigh* 11:15:58 --- nick: mur -> mur_A 11:31:17 --- nick: mur_A -> mur 12:25:40 --- quit: PoppaVic ("bbiab") 12:25:40 --- quit: sifbot (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:27:36 --- nick: mur -> mur__A 12:49:06 --- nick: mur__A -> mur 13:22:24 --- quit: gengar ("[BX] Hey boy, come sit on my lap. We'll talk about whatever pops up.") 13:34:29 --- join: SLACKo (~SLACKo@62.114.151.0) joined #forth 14:18:34 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@207.111.96.81) joined #forth 14:18:35 --- mode: ChanServ set +o TheBlueWizard 14:18:39 hiya all 14:18:57 hey! 14:18:58 :) 14:19:04 i have something for you actually 14:19:25 finnish - finnish sign langauge - finnish dictionary in internet on video 14:19:35 (although it's sponsored by microsoft :P) 14:20:08 terve mur! :) 14:20:40 really...interesting! (never mind the ever present M$ :P) 14:21:51 suvi.viittomat.net (have not tried) 14:23:21 * TheBlueWizard will try it out at work on Monday 14:23:25 kiitos :) 14:23:47 Terve, TheBlueWizard 14:24:34 ole hyvä ;) 14:25:01 hiya Robert (no need to "terve" me ;) 14:26:32 :) 14:27:39 what do you think coudl this be written by hand? http://www.asiointiopas.fi:80/asiointiopas/suomi/etusivu/ 14:28:23 i.e. not generated? 14:28:38 yes 14:29:08 with state money, all things are possible =) 14:29:36 --- join: deluxe (~deluxe@pD9E59310.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 14:29:55 mur: what is this site about? 14:30:00 hiya deluxe 14:30:20 :-) 14:30:27 it looks quite clean. that does not mean it woudl not use databases at all, but the html body where database is assigned coudl be written by hand 14:30:30 bon soir # 14:30:31 terve deluxe :) 14:30:42 * XeF4 just sat in sauna for 3hrs and the dirt still has not left his hands 14:30:45 TheBlueWizard it's guide to finnish govt e-services 14:30:55 XeF4 time to use soap :) 14:31:09 mur: ah 14:32:44 www.finlex.fi for finnish laws :) 14:32:56 there is always "in english" at some corner :) 14:34:36 heh 14:35:17 have a try, most often it's everythign in enlgihs what is in finnish 14:35:55 the lainsäädännöt are all translated? good grief.. 14:35:57 * TheBlueWizard nods 14:40:43 you can file a crime report in internet even :) 14:41:01 but those for only small items like cellulars that will not be searched actively 14:43:14 * XeF4 wants to file murder reports by SMS 14:49:46 --- join: thin (~thin@198.162.21.158) joined #forth 14:50:01 hi all 14:50:05 howdy thebluewizard 14:50:15 --- mode: ChanServ set +o thin 14:50:24 hiya thin 14:51:25 --- part: thin left #forth 14:51:27 --- join: thin (~thin@198.162.21.158) joined #forth 14:51:37 --- mode: ChanServ set +o thin 14:51:37 hello thin. how are things? 14:51:42 --- mode: thin set -o thin 14:51:47 good good 14:52:00 looking for a job for the summer 14:52:13 also reading some excellent economics books and excellent ayn rand books :D 14:54:06 good economics books? never seen such 14:54:17 economics on trial by mark skousen 14:54:50 is that the one just off the press? 14:55:05 thin: but i appreciate the links you've put on your site... 14:55:28 he got his phd in economics and then went on to become an entrepreneur, etc.. so he has a lot more practical experience than your average economics professor (he's an adjunct professor) 14:55:36 nah, it's an old book, 1990 14:55:56 hmm....ok 14:56:37 it's a good book so far, pokes holes in keynesian theory 14:56:51 keynesian economics is pretty ridiculous 14:57:31 deluxe: i really should be updating the website :P 14:57:41 actually, i'm going to add a news section to the website 14:57:47 so that people know when i updated it last 14:57:48 :P 14:58:08 rss news? 14:58:14 I read somewhere that Keynesian theory used to explain economy well...until the economy evolved and the theory fell apart 14:58:16 rss? 14:58:30 WOw! 14:58:52 thebluewizard: heh, isn't that a bad theory if it falls apart later? :P 14:58:52 finnish population registry center gives API as open source :) 14:59:31 thin: rss newsfeed, xml 14:59:57 XeF4 have a look: http://www.vaestorekisterikeskus.fi/vrk/home.nsf/Pages/80CC6810138438BBC2256D0A00341BD4?OpenDocument 15:00:35 deluxe: uh? the news section on the forth website will just be stuff like: updated site on sept 4, 1999 15:00:41 on the main page 15:01:04 nice 15:01:57 thin: the key word is "evolve" ... if something changes, then you have to account for new developments 15:02:14 i don't think the economy has changed much 15:02:25 the theory fell apart because the theory caused stagflation 15:03:23 quite some circumlocution on this page 15:03:44 "sovelluskoodin avulla on mahdollista toteuttaa..." 15:03:59 xef4: what page? 15:04:06 er, nevermind 15:04:31 XeF4 the code is in asp. :P OSS community shoudl convert example to .php! 15:04:40 see https://194.251.189.20/etu/koodit.asp 15:06:06 "Esimerkin sähköisessä allekirjoituksessa käytetään ActiveX-komponenttia, jota tukevat IE 5 - ja IE 6 -selainversiot. " Joojoo 15:09:12 php is not so pleasant imho 15:09:45 and maybe it's pure prejudice, but I don't have much hoopes for any state-coded page generator 15:10:20 php and perl 15:10:23 what ever 15:10:27 a common library 15:10:28 then 15:11:02 aivan liian monimutkainen ratkaisu 15:12:39 xef4: are you canadian? 15:13:31 thin: no 15:16:30 why? 15:17:23 libHST (tunnistaa ja allekirjoittaa) lynxHST, netscapeHST jne, pyytävät toimintoja 15:18:07 ja palvelimelle riittävät joko php tai perl sekä sql 15:19:05 allekirjoittaa mitä? 15:19:54 HST kortit ovat kuin pgp avaimia 15:20:04 ilman salausta 15:20:06 öh 15:20:25 kortti toimii salasanana ja allekirjoituksena 15:20:33 siis noin 15:20:42 ajoo.. 15:21:49 mutta genukielenä palvelimelle rittää mikä tahansa koska vain sivuston hoitaja joutuu koskeman siihen.. 15:22:02 libHST olisi kortti <-> ohjelmisto välitin. selaimen lisäpalikka olisi yksinkertainen ja kutsuisi vain libHST:tä ja lähettäisi tiedot palvelimelle. 15:22:05 s/koskeman/koskemaan/ 15:22:12 genu? 15:22:28 hmm joo 15:22:44 paitsi mikäli asioi valtion viranomaisten kanssa, joilla on jo tietokanta 15:24:12 sulkulistat on verkossa näköjään 15:24:28 please speak in english or speak elsewhere 15:24:38 Varför då? 15:24:50 * deluxe is amazed about this wild mix of letters :-) 15:25:30 That's how languages are... wild, and with lots of letters in them. 15:25:31 deluxe: Finnish has only two extra letters: ä and ö 15:25:41 joo, muttei pitäisi mitä käy tietokannan ja muiden rajapinnan lävitse olla yhtään kielestä riippuvaista 15:25:46 what about the ":" in libHST:tä 15:25:47 thin: sorry 15:25:54