00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.05.02
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03:33:23 <Speuler> a7r: awake ?
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05:41:55 <onetom> re
05:42:28 <Robert> Hi :)
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06:14:50 <mur> hello
06:16:07 <PoppaVic> lo
06:36:28 <Speuler> hi pop
06:37:06 <Robert> Hey mur, Speuler, PoppaVic
06:37:11 <PoppaVic> Hi Robert
06:37:22 <Speuler> g'dag robert
06:37:38 <Robert> Go'dag!
06:38:53 <Speuler> PoppaVic: did you solve defer restoration problem ?
06:39:40 <PoppaVic> Yeah, it restores and prunes back, but apparently the gforth 'marker' stuff is broken - because it will still find/run pruned words, but not list 'em in 'words' and such.
06:40:09 <PoppaVic> Not an issue for my intended porpoises, but certainly "wrong".
06:41:08 <Speuler> in ine implementation, i've solved it by defining a word   forget:   which linked forget-actions into a list
06:41:29 <Speuler> forget examined the list, and executed actions as required
06:41:32 <PoppaVic> uh huh
06:43:00 <Speuler> would look like this:        forget:  [ was deferred-word ] literal is deferred-word  ;
06:43:48 <Speuler> "was" was the opposite of "is", i.e.  reading xt from deferred word
06:43:55 <PoppaVic> yah.. I just do: ":noname <fixes> _my_marker_ defers empty ; is empty"
06:45:04 <PoppaVic> Once I get it working at least marginally, I suppose I can totally delete & ignore the markers & shit.. The point is a turnkey-like app anyway.
06:45:46 <Speuler> there may be another breaking point in gforth: the list of files compiled from. i'm not sure whether it is adjusted nowadays upon "empty" or "marker-name"
06:46:40 <PoppaVic> No idea, but I had to segregate by file - and was marking each & doing each fixup before empty - Seems moot in the case the app is being used, rather than shit developed.
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08:22:58 <monk23_coding> hi :)
08:23:02 <Robert> Hi monk.
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09:57:45 <PoppaVic> hmm.. Anyone know where the 'dstrings' .fs is located - out in "The World"? I'm trying to compare some assorted string foo-foo
10:00:23 <Speuler> i got some string stuff under http://www.forthfreak.net/stringstack . don't know about dstrings.
10:00:52 <PoppaVic> Yeah, I've got yer stuff - thanks.. I want to compare fstrings to dstrings - sans pfe.
10:01:25 <PoppaVic> ..the initial problem is strings is strings.. A stack is a sep. issue.
10:02:38 <Speuler> ah. dstrings = delimited strings ?
10:02:50 <PoppaVic> no, I don't think so..
10:02:58 <PoppaVic> I do that for myself, though
10:03:30 <PoppaVic> I'm supremely unimpressed with forth strings, though - folks complain about C, but sheesh..
10:04:41 <Speuler> there's hardly string support. if one is not impressed by that, he didn't look at his own implementation :)   or, maybe, he did.
10:05:08 <PoppaVic> hmm?
10:06:12 <Speuler> i'm not unimpressed by fotth strings, instead, i like that i got the choice, and not being bound by some abstract ruling
10:07:15 <Speuler> i can use zero-delimited strings if i like. which i don't. i can use float-counted strings if i'd like those, which again i wouldn't.
10:07:24 <PoppaVic> Oh, I don't disagree with "choice" - but, shit - it would be nice if we had a loadable base that was worth snot.
10:09:00 <Speuler> varaible-cell cpus would solve that. one string = one cell.
10:09:22 <Speuler> actually, bashforth can use one cell per string
10:09:29 <PoppaVic> That's what I'm planning for a stack, yes - and I also agree that a string is an abstract datatype
10:09:40 <Speuler> but, for sake of compatibility, it hardly uses those
10:10:47 <PoppaVic> shit.. I hate scr files - ok, how I load the silly bitch?
10:11:49 <Speuler> 1 load 
10:11:56 <Speuler> usually
10:12:00 <PoppaVic> hmm..
10:12:10 <PoppaVic> aa
10:13:20 <PoppaVic> shit *sigh*
10:13:31 <PoppaVic> OK, it's gonna' be YADIYP
10:13:51 <PoppaVic> y0et a)nother d)o i)t y)erself p)roject
10:14:10 * mur chooses p
10:15:19 <Speuler> yes, THAT is really something you got to do yourself :)
10:15:54 <PoppaVic> I hated those .scr files 20 years ago - and I still hate 'em.
10:16:12 <Speuler> i don't like them for source
10:16:18 <PoppaVic> I know
10:16:24 <Speuler> for storing string data, they're great
10:16:40 <PoppaVic> prolly, since they are lot like a database-file.
10:16:56 <Speuler> 'xactly. rolodex-type
10:17:12 <Speuler> newcomers grasp that concept of file-i/o easily
10:17:13 <PoppaVic> yeah.. use a hash & get to the proper 'page', etc..
10:17:36 <PoppaVic> But, for idiots storing source in it - they need to be burned alive.
10:17:56 <Speuler> if their project is "client data base", i show them blocks first
10:18:11 <PoppaVic> ..of course, I'm getting the same homicidal feelings about all the assorted "Forth" implementations - and GForth - as well.
10:18:39 <Speuler> hmm.
10:19:02 <Speuler> somebody puts some work and effort into something he's offering freely.
10:19:08 <PoppaVic> yep
10:19:13 <Speuler> I#d not going to kill him for it
10:19:42 <PoppaVic> Yeah.. I should cobfuscate my source before release, too.
10:20:20 <Speuler> afaik, the obfuscated code competition has mostly c-entries
10:20:41 <PoppaVic> Non-sequitur: my point was the form, not the value.
10:20:57 <PoppaVic> You can't even tell if shit is shit until you play with it.
10:21:19 <PoppaVic> but, nm - doesn't matter.. I'll just have to do it all from scracth
10:21:22 <PoppaVic> scratch, two
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12:53:32 <ramnull> What's up?
12:53:41 <PoppaVic> nothing
12:54:34 <ramnull> Alright, I need some pointers. Basically, when it comes to parsing C structs into a Forth program, I just DONT GET IT. Heh.
12:54:54 <PoppaVic> hehehe
12:54:57 <ramnull> I can do just about everything else just fine.
12:55:00 <PoppaVic> I sympathise
12:55:17 <PoppaVic> I figured out forth structs - finally - and it STILL looks like shit - but works
12:55:55 <ramnull> Even using I440r's "struct: " word for IsForth, I cant get the syscall to put the data into the struct. I gotta be doing something wrong.
12:56:04 <PoppaVic> I can throw you a dcc file I wrote to figure it out, if you want..
12:56:11 <PoppaVic> oh.. ISSforth - I pass
12:56:18 <ramnull> Sure, if you dont mind.
12:56:27 <PoppaVic> I wrote it for gforth
12:56:31 <PoppaVic> but, ok..
12:57:01 <ramnull> I can usually take a gforth proggy and translate it to IsForth without much trouble.
12:57:32 <ramnull> Thanks.
12:57:51 <PoppaVic> I'm still trying to figure out how I can better deploy that stuff, but it was fun to learn
12:58:31 <ramnull> PoppaVic: I'm working out a way to control the framebuffer and other Linuxisms directly.
12:58:40 <PoppaVic> ugh
12:58:54 <PoppaVic> ncurses? gtk? ;-)
12:58:57 * kc5tja uses structures all over the place in his Forth programs.  My structure definition words aren't that different from GForth's.
12:59:36 <ramnull> Actually, I intend to create my own drawing primitives in more portable dialect of Forth.
12:59:44 <PoppaVic> I don't find the "structure words" all that comfortable, though
13:00:02 <ramnull> kc5tja: Any advice for a greenhorn such as myself?
13:00:16 <kc5tja> Yeah, I kinda agree.  I haven't found anything better though.  I'll sometimes use parallel arrays, but I usually out-grow those pretty quick.
13:00:23 <PoppaVic> "more portable dialect"? ANS?
13:00:46 <PoppaVic> yeah.. I just wish I could "visualize" a nicer way to deal with structs.
13:01:01 <ramnull> I generally prefer lookup tables.
13:01:04 <kc5tja> ramnull: I'm not sure I understand the question.  What advice are you looking for?
13:01:28 <PoppaVic> ramnull: I know how I use tables, but not sure what you mean.
13:01:32 <ramnull> kc5tja: Well, take for example the getdents() syscall...
13:01:59 <ramnull> kc5tja: It returns a structure of dirent...
13:02:21 <PoppaVic> yep - I see yer point.
13:02:34 <ramnull> kc5tja: Now what I have to do right now is read that into a buffer and the parse each individual element into a oversized lookup table.
13:02:37 <PoppaVic> ..like I said.
13:02:56 <PoppaVic> good grief, why?
13:03:50 <ramnull> Cause, like I said, I havent figured out how to have the syscall put that data directly into my own dirent forth struct.
13:04:01 <PoppaVic> ahhh.... padding
13:04:03 <kc5tja> Why not just reference the fields of the structure directly?  E.g., addr offset + @ or addr offset + ! ?  My structure words (and I think PoppaVic's might as well; I haven't seen his code) automate the offset + part, so it becomes addr field @/! .
13:04:06 <PoppaVic> yeah.
13:04:34 <PoppaVic> yeah, I just looked over the info-pages for gforth, and faked it awhile.
13:04:53 <PoppaVic>   struct
13:04:53 <PoppaVic>     cell%       field stack%swl \ Struct Word List
13:04:53 <PoppaVic>     cell%       field stack%sbz \ Struct Base siZe
13:04:53 <PoppaVic>     cell%       field stack%sbp \ Struct Base Pointer
13:04:54 <PoppaVic>     cell%       field stack%sii \ Struct Index Input
13:04:54 <PoppaVic>   end-struct stack% OK
13:05:03 <kc5tja> GAHH!!!  FUCKIN' ROOMMATE!!  I'm gonna kick his butt...
13:05:08 <PoppaVic> hehe
13:05:08 <kc5tja> He broke the screen door...brb
13:05:16 <PoppaVic> kill! ;-)
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13:06:00 <ramnull> PoppaVic: Try dccing that file again if you would, for some reason it didnt make it over here in one piece.
13:07:26 <PoppaVic> sure.. lemme get the filespec again..
13:07:53 <PoppaVic> there
13:08:15 <PoppaVic> better?
13:08:16 <ramnull> That did it. It's good now.
13:08:20 <PoppaVic> cool
13:09:28 <PoppaVic> Yeah, I get a lot of "bad vibes" about a lot of the forth implementations.. *sigh* Seems like involving C source or calling on C libs/objects is quite the buttmunch.
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13:10:32 <ramnull> I've been thinking, once I've finally got the details figured out..about creating a linker "subForth" for interfacing with other languages.
13:10:53 <I440r> did you give up on frame buffer ?
13:10:57 <PoppaVic> well, there IS "ficl", but it sorta' makes me ill to look at for some freaky-reason.
13:11:30 <ramnull> I440r: Nope. Actually I'm having a bit of success, for all of 10 seconds until my terminal is fully hosed.
13:11:36 <PoppaVic> hehe
13:11:46 <PoppaVic> 10 secs! wheeee! ;-)
13:11:47 <I440r> heh
13:12:32 <PoppaVic> sounds like those "warm up" periods you get with GTK or ncurses ;-)
13:12:40 <ramnull> This whole Interfaces idea comes from my Ada experience, where there is a standard "Interfaces" package made specifically for that purpose.
13:12:49 <PoppaVic> "It's work-... shit."
13:13:09 <ramnull> i.e. Interfaces.C, Interfaces.Fortran, Interfaces.Cobol, etc...
13:13:28 <PoppaVic> ok.. (?)
13:13:36 <I440r> i wouldnt know about those warm up periods, isforth has no need for ncurses and i PLAN on doing my own forth based x toolkit
13:13:44 <I440r> fxtk ? :)
13:13:52 <I440r> or isx ?
13:13:54 <I440r> lol
13:14:26 <PoppaVic> <shrug> Everyone needs another wheel.
13:15:16 <ramnull> I440r: How do you go about importing C structs?
13:15:37 <ramnull> I440r: Just use mmap?
13:15:53 <I440r> importing c structures ?
13:16:24 <PoppaVic> ram: he hates C, thus I doubt you'll see any action for dealing with it.
13:16:31 <I440r> PoppaVic: its not a reinvention of the wheel, its a disassociating my project from EVERYTHING c
13:16:48 <I440r> my curses code is about 5k 
13:16:49 <PoppaVic> Right "reinventing the wheel" - I said what I meant.
13:17:13 <PoppaVic> ..I won't say a smaller ncurses is a bad idea, though
13:17:18 <ramnull> I440r: Well, I'd like to do it in Forth rather than Assembler.
13:17:34 <I440r> its not as functional as the curses library but that also means i dont have all the CRUFT it has. like supporting every fscking stupid bullshit quirk of every single terminal
13:17:37 <ramnull> I440r: The framebuffer stuff that is.
13:18:10 <I440r> ramnull well isforth doesnt have an assembler extension yet - but parts of that frame buffer code will NEED to be in assembler or it will suffer from being slow :)
13:18:14 <I440r> like my memory manager does atm
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13:18:59 <ramnull> I440r: You know, the gnu "screen" library is a a lot leaner than curses.
13:19:51 <I440r> ramnull the screen lib does the same thing as ncurses ?
13:20:00 <I440r> maybe ill have to take a look at the sources for it
13:20:43 <ramnull> I440r: Kinda. Not alot of fancy windowing stuff in it.
13:21:40 <ramnull> I440r: Designed for multiple "windows"(Actually virtual terminals) on a terminal. A couple of bells and whistles. Designed for Shellheads.
13:22:34 <ramnull> The Epic4 irc client uses it, if it's available.
13:22:39 <kc5tja> Screen relies on ncurses for its display management.
13:22:53 <PoppaVic> OK.. Talk at you guys all tomorrow - time to get rollin'
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13:23:24 <ramnull> kc5tja: Well shit. Is it in the docs?
13:23:31 <kc5tja> It's in the output of ldd.
13:23:39 <I440r> and it only has vt100 
13:23:39 <ramnull> I just grabbed it today.
13:23:44 <kc5tja> ldd `which screen` will show libncurses to be in the list of libraries it links against.
13:24:09 <I440r> lol
13:24:46 <ramnull> Alright. Fuck. Now I'm determined to get this Framebuffer stuff working. Guess I'll have to do a little assembler after all.
13:25:12 <ramnull> Gotta have every damn program linking against 20 different libraries.
13:25:16 <kc5tja> And as far as accessing C-style structures is concerned, all a structure is is a specification of which variables are placed where in memory, given a base address.
13:25:30 <I440r> ramnull how will you do coded definitions ?
13:25:34 <kc5tja> To access a field in Forth, you simply add the offset to the base address, and @ or ! as approriate.
13:25:50 <I440r> isforth already supports structures of that type too
13:25:51 <kc5tja> appropriate even
13:26:01 <I440r> right
13:26:27 <kc5tja> Man, you're lagged.  :/  2.26 seconds
13:26:30 <I440r> if im lagging its because im also downloading some cruft :)
13:26:35 <kc5tja> Ahh
13:26:58 <ramnull> Is it safe to say that the structs are always sequentially allocated?
13:27:15 <kc5tja> The fields within a structure are always sequentially allocated.
13:27:39 * kc5tja isn't familiar with GCC doing padding on the x86 platform.
13:27:44 <I440r> actually in isforth YOU decide where a given structure is actually placed. you can "allot" space for it or "allocate" space for it
13:27:51 <I440r> i suggest only using allot if...
13:27:59 <I440r> 1: your not going to do an fsave later
13:28:03 <kc5tja> I440r: I don't think that's what he's asking.
13:28:11 <I440r> 2: your going to do an fsave and yhou want the structure instance part of the target
13:28:25 <I440r> well erm... what were you asking ??? heh
13:28:27 * ramnull is listening.
13:28:36 <kc5tja> getdent() returns a structure.
13:28:50 * kc5tja doesn't even have a man page for it.  WTF?!
13:28:57 * kc5tja sighs
13:29:06 <I440r> me either!!!!!!!
13:29:10 <kc5tja> He wants to know how to get access to the fields of the structure.
13:29:32 <I440r> given the address of the structure (im talking isforth here)
13:29:33 <kc5tja> Am I right, ramnull?
13:29:42 <I440r> name the element within the strucuture
13:29:46 <ramnull> kc5tja: Yeah. But I pass my structure allocation to getdents() as the buffer pointer, assuming that it'll copy the values into the structure.
13:29:56 <I440r> you now have the address of that element withing the given structure
13:29:57 * kc5tja nods -- that's fine.
13:30:05 <I440r> you can now @ ! c@ c! w@ w! etc
13:31:00 <ramnull> I440r: 12 dirinstc fd getdents   Yes?
13:31:32 <I440r> eh ?
13:31:42 <kc5tja> brb
13:31:50 <I440r> getdents is your syscall ?
13:32:05 <ramnull> I440r: Assuming getdents is thus ....    3 141 syscall getdents
13:32:09 <I440r> wrap the syscall name in  <> so i KNOW its a syscall hehe
13:32:18 <I440r> use 3 141 syscall <getdents>
13:32:23 * ramnull nods
13:32:23 <I440r> its an isforth convention :)
13:32:34 <ramnull> Gotta get used to that convention.
13:32:38 <I440r> let me try man 2 getdents
13:32:48 <I440r> there it is
13:33:49 <ramnull> Usually I'll do struct: dirent <struct stuff here> ;struct   And then  create dirinstc dirent allot
13:34:10 <I440r> ok, well ive not looked into the directory reading syscalls yet, but i think you have the parameters backwards.
13:34:43 <I440r> the struct: doesnt define an instance of the structure, it just defines the shape of the structure as it were
13:35:05 <ramnull> Well, when I pass the params as shown in the manpage, it fails. But when I pass them the way I just showed you, it succeeds.
13:35:16 <ramnull> i.e. RPN
13:35:17 <I440r> does that <dirents> syscall return "count" instances of the structure ?
13:35:30 <I440r> if so you need to allocate space for "count" instances of the structure
13:35:34 * ramnull nods
13:35:59 <I440r> 12 structure-name * allocate/allot
13:36:01 <ramnull> So I gotta do variable dirinst dirent 12 allot.
13:36:06 <I440r> if i do 
13:36:10 <I440r> struct: foo
13:36:13 <I440r>   .... stuff here
13:36:15 <I440r> ;struct
13:36:27 <I440r> then "foo" will return the total size of the structure
13:36:42 <ramnull> I'm with yah there.
13:37:16 <I440r> so to allocate space for 12 foo structures i would do
13:37:19 <I440r> 12 foo * allot
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13:37:55 <ramnull> Aaaah. And it should sequentially allocate 12 instances of the struct.
13:38:12 <I440r> if there was a syscall that returnd N instances of a foo structure i coud point at the above allocated buffer, run the syscall and i would then have 12 instances of said structure in said buffer
13:38:21 <I440r> yes. YOU should 
13:38:33 <I440r> allocating just one will not work :)
13:39:34 <ramnull> Heh.
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13:39:51 <ramnull> I was trying to read it into a straight buffer, and pick out the elements piece by piece.
13:40:23 <I440r> if the buffer is 12 times the size of one structure instance then that will work
13:40:35 <I440r> to point to the Nth structure within that buffer do
13:40:38 <I440r> foo N * 
13:40:49 <I440r> you now have a base pointer to the Nth structure
13:40:53 * ramnull nods
13:41:04 <I440r> you can now name an element of the structure and @/! to it
13:41:05 <ramnull> Yeah. Simple arithmetic.
13:41:28 <I440r> but remember. if you need to access more that just one element of the same structure you have to save the base address
13:41:39 <I440r> let me show you what i mean
13:41:44 <I440r> struct: foo
13:41:52 <I440r>   1 dfield foo.bar
13:42:00 <I440r>   1 dfield foo.fud
13:42:03 <I440r> ;struct
13:42:11 <I440r> create foo-instance foo allot
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13:42:38 <I440r> 10 foo-instance  ( we now have the address of the allocated foo structure)
13:43:03 <ramnull> I gotcha.
13:43:03 <I440r>   foo.bar !  (foo.bar converted that address of the structure into the address of the foo.bar element of that structure)
13:43:29 <I440r> we stored 10 in the foo.bar element of THAT structure
13:43:33 <ramnull> To put it simple, I was skipping the "10 foo-instance" step.
13:43:54 <I440r> the 10 was the value i want to store in the structure
13:44:05 <I440r> lets say i want to set foo.bar to 10 and foo.fud to 20
13:44:30 <I440r> 10 foo-instance foo.bar !
13:44:36 <I440r> 20 foo-instance foo.fud !
13:44:37 <I440r> or...
13:44:44 * ramnull nods
13:44:50 <I440r> 10 20 foo-instance tuck foo.fud ! foo.bar !
13:44:51 <I440r> heh
13:46:12 <I440r> welli gotta go
13:46:14 <ramnull> So, I could could go 10 foo * allot here and then proceed with my address arithmetic.
13:46:21 <ramnull> Laters I440r.
13:46:26 <I440r> yes you can do that!
13:46:52 <I440r> but if you "allot" it and then fsave you will increase the size of the executable
13:47:01 <I440r> better to "allocate" at run time 
13:47:07 * ramnull nods
13:47:10 <ramnull> Gotcha.
13:47:11 <I440r> outa here
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13:56:54 <sifbot> Type sifbot: <forth code here> (or /msg sifbot <forth code here> to play in private)
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14:20:01 <sifbot> Type sifbot: <forth code here> (or /msg sifbot <forth code here> to play in private)
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14:25:02 <sifbot> Type sifbot: <forth code here> (or /msg sifbot <forth code here> to play in private)
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14:32:56 <sifbot> Type sifbot: <forth code here> (or /msg sifbot <forth code here> to play in private)
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15:31:11 <sifbot> Type sifbot: <forth code here> (or /msg sifbot <forth code here> to play in private)
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15:57:14 <a7r> hey
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16:02:20 <sifbot> Type sifbot: <forth code here> (or /msg sifbot <forth code here> to play in private)
16:03:16 <a7r> sifbot: variable sr4 15 sr4 ! : lfsr4 dup dup 1 and 3 << swap xor 8 and swap 1 >> or ; : getbits 0 swap 0 do sr4 @ lfsr4 dup sr4 ! 1 and i << or loop ; : newseq 32 getbits ;
16:03:17 <sifbot> a7r:   Word not found: xor  
16:03:21 <a7r> WHAT
16:03:25 <a7r> no xor?
16:03:37 <a7r> sifbot: 1 2 << 
16:03:39 <sifbot> a7r:     
16:03:47 <a7r> sifbot: .
16:03:49 <sifbot> a7r:   stack underflow    
16:03:53 <a7r> sifbot: 1 2 << .
16:03:55 <sifbot> a7r: 4     
16:04:37 <a7r> sifbot: x-or
16:04:38 <sifbot> a7r:   Word not found: x-or  
16:04:42 <a7r> sifbot: xor
16:04:44 <sifbot> a7r:   Word not found: xor  
16:04:52 <a7r> sifbot: see <<
16:04:54 <sifbot> a7r:   Word not found: see  
16:05:17 <a7r> sifbot: ." I'm too lame to know about xor."
16:05:19 <sifbot> a7r:     
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16:42:07 <ramnull> Wazzzzuuup?!
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18:10:01 <ramnull> I'm back.
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19:21:29 <ianni> do you guys use blocks?
19:43:34 * onetom uses (flux blx ;)
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22:01:37 <sifbot> Type sifbot: <forth code here> (or /msg sifbot <forth code here> to play in private)
22:05:56 <a7r> sifbot: 0 0 do 1 loop
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23:15:09 <CaffeineJunkie> a7r:  awake ?
23:15:27 <a7r> CaffeineJunkie: yeah
23:15:52 <CaffeineJunkie> you were looking for some one with forth chip experience ?
23:16:19 <a7r> yeah, I was mainly looking for someone that could comment on using them
23:16:36 <CaffeineJunkie> i used novix nc4016 and psc1000
23:17:01 <a7r> how were they to program with?
23:17:09 <CaffeineJunkie> very forthy
23:17:13 <a7r> haha
23:17:50 <CaffeineJunkie> the opcode structure was different for these two
23:18:40 <CaffeineJunkie> novix resembles more a bit-slice processor, psc1000 used byte-size instructions
23:19:19 <a7r> cool
23:20:53 <CaffeineJunkie>   0 tuck range do i @ ....   cell +loop    
23:21:18 <CaffeineJunkie> the ... was your checksum part which i didn't memorize
23:21:57 <a7r> ah
23:22:04 <a7r> killer
23:22:15 <CaffeineJunkie> probably something wrong with this one
23:22:21 <CaffeineJunkie> no good to work from memory
23:23:02 <a7r> things like tuck, I wasn't aware of
23:23:15 <CaffeineJunkie> you did   0 swap 0
23:23:44 <CaffeineJunkie>   i.e.     x -- 0 x 0
23:24:50 <CaffeineJunkie> tuck works like over, but into the other direction
23:25:03 <a7r> okay, here's my current version:
23:25:11 <CaffeineJunkie> therfore it was called under for a while
23:25:18 <a7r> : ipchksum ( a n -- s, take n cells starting at memory location a, and push thei
23:25:18 <a7r> r IP checksum back)
23:25:18 <a7r>     0 swap 0 do over i cells + @ add-carry + loop add-carry invert mL swap drop 
23:25:18 <a7r> ;
23:25:27 <a7r> this does it from memory, which is more what I need
23:25:40 <a7r> with add-carry and mL being:
23:25:45 <a7r> : add-carry ( n -- c, sums the two halves of a cell )
23:25:46 <a7r>     dup 16 >> swap mL + 
23:25:46 <a7r> ;
23:25:52 <a7r> : mL FFFF and ;
23:27:58 <CaffeineJunkie> 0 -rot range do  i @ add-carry + cell +loop  add-carry... 
23:28:33 <a7r> okay, I don't have a range w/ pforth, how is that implemented?
23:28:41 <CaffeineJunkie> bounds ?
23:28:54 <a7r> don't have that either
23:29:38 <CaffeineJunkie> : range    over + swap  ;
23:31:15 <CaffeineJunkie> not a standard word, but can be found often
23:31:31 <CaffeineJunkie> sometimes called range, sometimes bounds
23:31:47 <a7r> oh, I see
23:31:53 <CaffeineJunkie> it converts from     start count -- limit start
23:31:56 <a7r> so I'm looping over the addresses, rather than having to compute them.
23:32:01 <CaffeineJunkie> right
23:32:11 <a7r> that makes a hell of a lot more sense
23:32:45 <CaffeineJunkie> reduces the workload withing the loop
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23:38:12 <a7r> Speuler: that +loop and range are both excellent words
23:39:07 <Speuler> +loop can be a pain to implement.
23:39:17 <a7r> yeah
23:39:21 <a7r> it looks like it could be
23:39:43 <Speuler> but from the user side, you don't need to care
23:39:53 <a7r> yeah
23:40:38 <Speuler> where you can test for identity with loop, you can't with +loop
23:40:53 <Speuler> : foo 11 0 do   4 +loop  ;
23:41:22 <Speuler> index would be   0 4 8
23:41:35 <Speuler> will never be 11
23:41:48 <Speuler> but still needs to terminate loop
23:42:03 <Speuler> : foo  0 11 do   -4 +loop  ;
23:42:07 <Speuler> ...
23:42:14 <a7r> yeah
23:42:46 <Speuler> once, end-of-loop condition is, index < limit, once, index > limit
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23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/03.05.02