00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.05.01 00:05:11 --- quit: ramnull ("This isn't Happy Hour!") 00:17:36 --- quit: a7r_ (sterling.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:39:13 --- join: Klaw (~anonymous@ip68-101-120-167.oc.oc.cox.net) joined #forth 03:22:45 --- join: mur (jukka@baana-62-165-188-193.phnet.fi) joined #forth 03:26:03 --- join: njd (melons@njd.paradise.net.nz) joined #forth 03:26:26 --- quit: XeF4 (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 03:26:27 --- join: XeF4 (xef4@lowfidelity.org) joined #forth 03:46:41 agh 03:46:42 bbl 03:46:48 --- quit: mur ("BBL") 03:51:24 --- join: mur (jukka@baana-62-165-188-193.phnet.fi) joined #forth 04:21:24 --- quit: Klaw (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:43:24 --- join: PoppaVic (~pfv@s42.waters.gtlakes.com) joined #forth 05:56:40 --- quit: PoppaVic ("(I don't need a reason)") 05:57:46 --- join: Speuler (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba460b.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth 05:58:36 Hi 05:58:49 'morning 05:59:59 hello german and swede plus other children of the world 05:59:59 :) 06:00:55 hi mur 06:06:43 --- join: PoppaVic (~pfv@s45.waters.gtlakes.com) joined #forth 07:20:59 OK.. anyone alive? 07:22:18 I am! :) 07:22:46 OK.. I need a bit of help/advice re: defer/is, etc 07:23:28 Then a little kid with about a year of Forth experience is just what you need ;) 07:24:06 I'm stuck with that stupid 'marker' word, and I am using a marker per file.. Any file that alters an earlier deferred word should reset the old values and then run the old 'empty' - deferred word. 07:25:13 ..basically, I'm chaining up markers & resetting anything that would have been altered to previous states. 07:25:31 and.. hmm.. Maybe I'm going about it sideways.. 07:27:00 no.. I'm not. Shit. What I want to do is snag OLD cfa from 'empty' and execute THAT after resetting shit - thus chaining repairs. 07:27:41 ..everything that mucks around needs then to redefine the 'empty' deferred word - but run the OLD deferred word. 07:28:39 Soo... How does one acquire the OLD/current-at-compile value & set it up to run? 07:29:09 (is YOUR head spinning yet? ;-) 07:30:39 ahhhh... defers? 07:34:39 user bright red marker instead of the normal neon yellow 07:34:41 >:) 07:35:18 hrmm.. I still have shit.. *sigh* 07:35:42 * mur is trying to kill the time 07:35:47 that updating system takes :( 07:36:01 some two hours to go :( 07:47:53 out of booze =(/me 07:47:56 er 07:48:03 * XeF4 out of boozxe =( 08:47:11 goddamnit.. *sigh* This is a royal assbite.. 08:54:15 shit.. OK. It looks like this is broken in gforth is all.. 09:09:12 * PoppaVic sighs 09:09:23 OK, well - it works now... after a fashion, anyway 09:35:23 Hrm.. I440r removed the u<< word in isforth 1.13b. 09:36:02 damn.. yeah, I gotta' remember to add >> and << - thanks. 10:27:48 --- join: I440r (~x@dialup-64.154.98.111.Dial1.Cincinnati1.Level3.net) joined #forth 10:35:39 Hey 10:35:43 You removed u< yea 10:39:01 it was bogus, thers no such thing as an unsigned shift left 10:39:09 i only added it for symetry 10:39:11 use << 10:39:15 heh 10:39:25 i removed it to save 8 or 9 bytes hehe 10:39:39 > 8 3 >> . 1 ok 10:40:35 I440r: Bah, why not just keep it? Just breaking every old program is mean, you know :) 10:40:51 hahaha 10:41:17 heh its a conspiracy 10:41:39 besides isforth IS still in beta :) 10:41:43 Bah. 10:41:45 so there :P~ 10:41:50 * Robert smacks 10:41:53 Well.. 10:41:57 It's not much of a problem anyway 10:42:07 And, uhm.. did you find out what caused the new version to be so slow? 10:42:28 Or, well.. it's not slow. Just the input window. 10:43:25 btw did removing vocabs from context solve that problem yesterday ? 10:43:43 i cant think of why it would get slower except having to search a larger dictuinary 10:44:10 It's not "slower", like that.. I mean, I can compile pretty large source files in no time. 10:44:21 if i had a manual it would suggest doing "only vocabulary forth" 10:44:30 But just pressing enter also causes that delay. 10:44:54 i know, ill create a init file that isforth will automaticaly compile on startup to do all these little things 10:45:00 I440r: new "gotcha'" for you.. using markers in gforth? They are broken.. you can still find/run shit that was removed by the marker - what fuckin' moron on the ANS committee decided 'forget' was needed? sheesh! 10:45:26 init? see gforth - I rather like their site-init stuff. 10:45:46 poppa the problem is probably a bug in their forget which probably doesnt correctly forget vocabularies 10:45:54 isforth DOES forget vocabularies properly 10:46:19 i have to add command history, search paths etc 10:46:19 no - they don't even HAVE 'forget' - near as I can tell, ANS dropped it as well. 10:46:22 still 10:46:35 bleh ehy use marker. 10:46:38 marker foo 10:46:44 .... lots of forth here 10:46:56 foo ( automatically forget everything from foo onwards) 10:47:02 i also have that mechanism 10:47:06 i also have empty 10:47:13 I've had to use markers, a deferred word, and then chain the defers as I load - and it STILL can find the old words & run 'em - but 'words' and shit makes it look clean. 10:47:28 yeah, 'empty' is my deferred word 10:47:30 try this 10:47:33 vocabulary foo 10:47:40 : blah 10 0 do i . loop ; 10:47:55 : bleh 10 for r@ . next ; \ in gforth i mean 10:48:03 then forget blah and see if bleh runs 10:48:21 erm - put markers in there 10:48:31 immediatly prior and after vocabulary foo that is 10:48:53 im betting that when you run the marker ahead of foo blah and bleh disappear properly 10:49:19 but if you have blah and bleh still defined and execute the marker in front of the vocabulary 10:49:29 the vocabulary itself wont be unlinked from context 10:49:36 that's.. silly 10:49:43 ahhh. 10:49:49 so althohgh its forgotten its still in the search order so blah and bleh will be too 10:50:00 right up until you overwrite them with new definitions 10:50:10 isforths forget does not exhibit this 10:50:20 forgotten vocabularies ARE removed from context 10:50:26 and current too 10:50:34 if you forget the current vocabulary forth becomes current 10:50:47 hehe.. forgot the words, then the voc, and I can still invoke it. 10:51:21 vocabulary foo foo definitions 10:51:31 create a marker ahead of that then create some words in that vooc 10:51:34 voc 10:51:36 non-sequitur 10:52:01 ..I marked the words after voc - they went.. ran the marker ahead - and it will not SHOW 'foo' - but it's found & runs. 10:52:36 We call this an "undocumented unfeature". 10:52:37 because its still in context 10:52:50 non-sequitur 10:52:51 foo is still current and in context!!!! 10:52:55 say previous 10:53:04 and then try executing those words again 10:53:08 see above 10:53:10 im betting they are truely gone then 10:53:11 I never made it defs 10:53:22 oh 10:53:26 ..and it ain't in words - but it is found and runs. 10:53:35 can you ' it ? 10:53:42 ..which tells me gforth has "issues" 10:53:56 no, tick failed 10:53:56 well we all know that, its coded in c :/ 10:54:06 how is ' defined in gforth ? 10:54:15 : ' defined 0= ?missing ; ??? 10:54:26 > see ' 10:54:30 : ' 10:54:30 (') name?int ; ok 10:54:41 ugh 10:54:47 how is (') defined 10:55:06 see (') 10:55:06 : (') 10:55:06 parse-word name-too-short? find-name dup 0= 10:55:11 IF drop -13 throw 10:55:11 THEN ; ok 10:55:50 ugh i would have removed the 0= the if and the then and in place of the 0= used ?exit 10:55:56 waste of time.. *sigh* On the whole, it works.. I ain't switching to asm-shit if I can help it, and pfe works too - but it lacks the see & stuff. 10:56:18 your not on an intel machine are you :) 10:56:36 For my current "project", I'll just make a note and keep pluggin' along. 10:56:56 don't be foolish - k6-3d/300 10:56:57 you could try emailing the author 10:57:06 oh - then why arent you running isforth ? 10:57:07 hahaha 10:57:12 methinks not. 10:57:22 because I like C - and not asm. 10:57:43 erm - you dont need to know asm to use isforth 10:57:55 generally speaking, I can glance at any of the source and guess what they wanted to do. 10:58:20 except their sources are NOT commented. mine are - you dont NEED to guess even if you cant read assembler 10:58:39 --- mode: ChanServ set +o I440r 10:59:00 --- mode: I440r set -o I440r 10:59:21 actually, I can do without a lot of comments if the C is clean - and what is documented or commented is even nicer ;-) Don't get yer tights in a bunch, chief - someday I may try issforth ;-) 10:59:59 However, for "Autofoo", gforth is a far, far beter choice. 11:00:40 what is autofoo ? 11:01:20 I'm working up a base to - currently - sidestep GNU autoshit.. Perhaps later to generate the autoshit for the developer. 11:02:07 That autoshit works is undeniable, but it sure sucks to dick with as a developer. 11:02:41 personally i find the entier make/automake crap a heap of obfuscation 11:02:56 11:02:59 when i can metacompile the "make" will disappear PERMANANTLY from isforth 11:03:16 Wherever gcc can go, so doth go autoshit - and usually linux as well. 11:03:41 its the "sheep 11:03:48 " theory in practice 11:04:01 "oh - he is doing it that way, i guess we should too" 11:04:08 Well, when you get a metacompiler, and a make-replacement, let me know ;-) 11:04:27 it will be a while yet. dont hold your breath 11:04:31 ..and an OS as well - with all my fav linux stuff ;-) 11:04:39 right. 11:15:00 --- join: a7r_ (~a7r@206.72.82.135) joined #forth 11:38:04 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~z@ts21-a44.Moscow.dial.rol.ru) joined #forth 11:39:21 hello sergei penguin 11:39:25 Hi 11:39:26 privet i salut 11:39:45 hi 11:48:58 --- quit: PoppaVic ("needs the horn..") 12:00:54 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:15:02 --- quit: a7r_ ("Client exiting") 12:55:40 --- join: I44-r_ (~x@dialup-63.210.226.42.Dial1.Cincinnati1.Level3.net) joined #forth 13:05:22 --- quit: mur ("i'm going to future see you") 13:14:05 --- quit: I440r (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 13:14:47 --- nick: I44-r_ -> I440r 13:32:46 --- quit: I440r () 14:51:21 --- join: ramnull (~nicad@12-241-145-39.client.attbi.com) joined #forth 15:14:05 --- join: karingo (karingo@90.portland-05-10rs.or.dial-access.att.net) joined #forth 15:29:14 --- quit: karingo () 15:53:49 --- join: tcn (~tcn@tc3-login19.megatrondata.com) joined #forth 15:55:46 --- quit: tcn (Remote closed the connection) 15:55:57 --- join: tcn (~tcn@tc3-login19.megatrondata.com) joined #forth 15:56:00 oops :) 15:57:16 I typed '/part' without a channel and tinyirc took a dump 15:59:20 --- quit: Speuler (Remote closed the connection) 16:01:57 --- quit: tcn ("TinyIRC 1.1") 16:10:40 --- join: crc (12345678@ACA8B01C.ipt.aol.com) joined #forth 16:15:42 --- join: tcn (~tcn@tc3-login19.megatrondata.com) joined #forth 16:15:49 hey crc 16:16:01 Hi crc+tcn 16:16:06 just sent you an email :) 16:16:24 howdy robert 16:17:25 * Robert yawns. 16:17:28 Just got it :-) 16:18:10 Porting Retro 6 to Linux? 16:18:21 sure, it'll run 16:18:25 Cool 16:18:29 just leave out the drivers 16:18:42 Replace them with syscalls? 16:18:46 yep 16:19:03 Then all that's needed is a textmode output system 16:19:40 'key' and 'emit' :) 16:19:45 :-) 16:19:51 All that's really needed 16:20:07 slow, maybe, oh well :) 16:20:18 I could care less about speed 16:20:36 I could always make 'type' do a single write() syscall 16:20:44 It can always be improved later, stability is a little more important to me 16:20:57 Using write() would be faster 16:21:21 Though just replacing emit and key would reduce redundancy in the codebase 16:21:28 yeah.. heh.. no matter how slow it is, it's faster than MS/GNU code :) 16:21:36 There are always tradeoffs... 16:21:49 GNU code :-) I never liked it 16:22:01 Though I get stuck using it enough... 16:22:06 I guess Poppavic here is working on GNU replacements 16:23:03 I tend to use asmutils and an older kernel image 16:23:12 It's a lot faster than the latest bloatware 16:23:59 I'll look forward to seeing your port of Retro to Linux 16:24:26 I just uploaded my latest version 16:24:33 cool 16:24:51 i've got a 2.2 kernel.. you? 16:25:13 2.2 16:25:25 Though I'm thinking of reverting to 1.x 16:26:06 I have an old copy of Slackware floating around here somewhere 16:26:23 I ran it in like 4 megs on a 386 16:26:29 hmm, yeah, the only reason i'm using 2.2 is because I started with Clienux.. which i've completely replaced by now :) 16:26:36 (4MB of hardrive space) 16:26:46 I havn't seen clienux 16:27:05 Still looking for a small linux 16:27:11 with 2.2 16:27:32 I should make a distro :) 16:27:40 Debian is getting on my nerves with its dependancies and bloat :-) 16:28:04 I just want something small and fast to develop Retro on 16:28:05 Hehe, they fucked up libc... 16:28:15 hahaha 16:28:23 But I think Debian is a pretty nice system.. 16:28:38 5.4.46 is stable. 16:28:46 Even though I had to _downgrade_ libc to be able to uninstall a program, to be able to reinstall it, etc. etc. 16:29:14 tcn: how did you eliminate dict.1? 16:29:17 I should post my /etc scripts, at least 16:29:40 crc: a macro that uses %xdefine.. i made it up for Isforth last year. 16:29:58 I'm not familiar with %xdefine 16:30:11 how does it differ from %define? 16:31:02 umm.. it defines a variable you can redefine again and again 16:31:29 within a macro 16:31:48 Sounds interesting 16:31:51 so it lets you keep track of the 'last word added' and link it into the next one 16:32:05 makes it easier to maintain the code, anyway 16:32:14 Cool. That would make it easier to maintain 16:33:02 lemme grab that new version.. 16:36:24 you sure it's on the web site? 16:36:42 http://retro.tunes.org/pub/Source.zip 16:37:03 (The link on the download page is a symlink to the actual file) 16:37:44 oh I see.. i thought you had an even newer one on there 16:38:17 That should link to retro6-build3.zip or something like that 16:38:45 It's my latest updates (just uploaded like 2 hours ago...) 16:39:57 better check it :) 16:40:59 http://retro.tunes.org/pub/RetroForth/retro6-build3.zip 16:41:22 The link appears to be valid 16:41:25 say, you can create HEADER and README files to show before & after the directory generated by apache.. 16:42:10 go on bespin and look in ~tcn/html (there's a .htconf or something file in there) 16:42:12 I'll do that. It would help quite a bit... 16:42:29 i finally figured that out after years of high-maintenance web pages :) 16:42:40 There's no tcn directory 16:43:14 oh, ~tom 16:43:18 ok 16:43:22 I was getting too much spam :( 16:43:40 .htaccess, that's it 16:45:35 Ok, I'll add those files (and replace the download page with them) 16:46:23 Hmm, the >R R> R@ words don't work yet... 16:46:39 so it wasn't that easy.. damn :) 16:46:43 It triple faults on execution, though the code seems ok 16:46:51 oh.. that's because I used ebp instead of esi!! 16:47:12 That would probably explain it 16:47:16 hehe 16:47:42 (I don't use the return stack much, though a lot of requests for it have come in) 16:48:24 yeah, in Retro2 I was still had a lot to learn about the nuances of asm.. EBP seemed otherwise useless, and ESI very important.. 16:49:00 but with an ESI stack, you can use LODSD or something in those often-repeated data stack instructions.. 16:49:20 True 16:49:40 Not that I care much about which register is used... 16:53:31 oh, i've got an addendum to that "conclusions" article 16:54:18 Is it online? 16:54:56 ..checking it over.. 16:56:55 ok 17:07:27 what do you think of CDI? and what is it? 17:08:10 oh, you're making it up, eh? :) I keep thinking it's UDI 17:08:21 Common Driver Interface 17:08:58 An attempt to define a method of sharing sourcecode for drivers 17:08:59 anything online? 17:09:11 Not yet, still working on figuring out the details 17:09:23 I dislike UDI though 17:10:22 yeah, it can't be that great.. although there are some REAL companies involved 17:10:50 it could be a project of their mickey-mouse divisions :) 17:10:58 I've read the specs, it's a big pain to even try to get it working on a small OS 17:11:35 that's too bad. I hope they can it. 17:12:32 If UDI was simpler I'd try to get it working... 17:13:00 hmm.. gonna need bigger fonts soon 17:13:24 Why? 17:13:30 i need to finish that vector font thing i'm working on 17:14:11 well, suppose you go up to 1600x1200 resolution... I would, if other OSes handled it decently. 17:14:29 Agreed 17:15:01 but I say, have only two fonts.. monospace and proportional.. heh 17:15:16 I havn't done anything above 1024x768, but it wouldn't be practical to go much higher without vector fonts. 17:15:31 Yeah, two fonts for most purposes 17:15:53 Unless you run a printshop you really don't need more 17:16:16 maybe bold & italic 17:16:57 Those could be handled by the renderer 17:17:00 yeah 17:17:35 I'd read in a vector font language, then build raster images for each size as needed.. 17:17:50 That would work 17:18:11 and provide a quick way tweak the line width, size, etc. 17:19:01 Then it should suffice for nearly all purposes 17:19:08 hey, i've got an idea for a 'window manager' of sorts 17:19:50 For Retro? 17:19:54 it's be like Linux VT's except there's a sidebar on the right, with "mini screens" for each "session" 17:20:05 Hmm, interesting 17:20:33 It wouldn't be too hard with graphics modes, but isn't feasible in a text mode :-) 17:21:10 and you can show the full sidebar, hide it, or just show a thin strip with the session # and busy/waiting/attention/etc. indicators 17:21:27 actually.. it would work in textmode :) 17:21:43 That would work 17:22:09 and the main screen would be split, text on bottom, graphics on top, by default 17:22:11 But I have to go off to work now... 17:22:26 oh yeah, you're in Australia right? 17:22:34 No pennsylvania 17:22:49 I work overnights 17:22:50 oh, night shift 17:22:58 Yup 17:23:04 well have fun :) 17:23:17 I'll look forward to seeing that linux port of Retro :-) 17:23:32 And I'll try to have fun. (But don't count on it!) 17:23:34 yup, now if I'll sign off IRC, I should get it done tonight :) 17:23:42 Ok 17:23:47 Bye 17:23:47 nice talking to ya. 17:23:51 --- quit: tcn ("TinyIRC 1.1") 17:23:54 --- quit: crc ("Leaving...") 17:36:56 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@ip68-8-206-137.sd.sd.cox.net) joined #forth 18:03:43 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@pc78dn1d.ppp.fcc.net) joined #forth 18:03:48 hiya all 18:05:00 --- join: Klaw (~anonymous@ip68-101-120-167.oc.oc.cox.net) joined #forth 18:05:25 hiya Klaw 18:05:40 Hey TheBlueWizard, Klaw :) 18:05:42 hellos 18:05:48 hiya Robert 18:09:05 Swizzle Sticks. 18:09:29 it will be wonderful when someone else gets to pay my bills 18:09:36 i lost all my passwords when i formated the wrong partition. 18:10:44 heh...that'd be something, I suppose 18:12:21 * kc5tja develops some incredible amount of power with his latest pop-pop engine. However, it doesn't last very long. Not sure why. 18:12:39 But the engine was so powerful it almost blew the contents of the reservoir clean out of the tank. 18:12:42 :) 18:13:52 um...exactly what are you talking about? 18:14:07 A pop-pop engine is a type of steam pulse jet engine. 18:14:18 It gets its name from the sound it makes when operating. 18:14:42 (well, if you use a diaphram boiler; otherwise, it sounds more like a muffled "phuff phuff", like a steam locomotive, only quieter) 18:15:19 hmm...I see 18:15:24 The variety I'm building is basically just a coil-type flash boiler, with both the "input" and "output" submerged in the same tank of water. 18:15:38 Add heat, and it goes (after it gets warm enough). 18:15:45 I now vaguely recall you were home-building your engine...right? 18:16:18 The cycle is this: heat added causes the water in the boiler to flash into steam. The steam propells the rest of the water out of the tubes (a very real jet -- I calculated 0.125N of thrust for the engine before this one). 18:16:57 Once the steam/water interface gets to a cold part of the flash boiler, or if the steam escapes into the reservoir, it will flash condense, creating an intense vacuum in the boiler. This draws more water into it. 18:17:14 Since heat is still being added while the vacuum exists, when the water reaches the boiler again, it re-flashes, thus repeating the cycle. 18:17:31 Home-brewing things is my hobby. Engines is just one part of it. 18:18:06 However, after building this last engine, I definitely have reason to believe that a pop-pop driving a Tesla turbine or a bucket-type water turbine would be an excellent conversation piece, and might even be powerful enough to drive a small QRP ham radio rig. 18:18:37 http://www.nmia.com/~vrbass/pop-pop/ 18:19:08 * TheBlueWizard is looking at it now 18:19:08 Unfortunately, that's the only page on the 'net about them. Pity -- they really are quite fun toys to play with, and are amazingly capable propulsors. 18:45:15 gotta go...bye all 18:45:50 --- part: TheBlueWizard left #forth 19:16:04 --- join: Speuler (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba4c15.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth 19:16:22 'morning 19:22:04 evening 19:45:09 --- nick: kc5tja -> kc-mall 20:22:07 --- nick: kc-mall -> kc5tja 20:23:53 --- join: a7r_ (~a7r@206.72.82.135) joined #forth 20:24:06 hey 20:24:49 re 20:24:55 what's going on? 20:25:45 Finished with my latest pop-pop engine. This was a *monster* of an engine. Most of my other engines produced around 125mW of power to 250mW of power. This must have been in the 1W to 2W range, because it was kicking water clean out of the tub. :) 20:26:17 But, alas, it dies after a couple of minutes of running. Again, not at all sure why. The evidence just doesn't add up. But it could be due to overheating of the engine. 20:26:30 wer 20:26:31 d 20:26:43 I'm about 812 miles into the breakin of my new rotary engine 20:26:47 Other than that, studying up on fuzzy logic and stuff. 20:26:54 w00t!! 20:26:56 What generation? 20:26:59 2nd 20:27:04 * kc5tja has a 2nd generation -- 86 GXL. 20:27:14 elite, this is a TII 20:27:21 Sweet. 20:27:24 :) 20:27:34 Mariah just built me a new engine, and a new turbo setup 20:27:46 * kc5tja kinda wishes his was turbo'ed, but I like it just the way it is. I do absolutely want to put a stick in it though (currently manual). 20:28:03 currently manual, or auto? 20:28:11 Currently auto. 20:28:19 yeah, werd. 20:28:19 That's the way it came. I bought it used. 20:28:44 I like the 5 speed, although it's kind of notchy. 20:29:05 * kc5tja is used to 5-speed from his '80 prior. 20:29:12 cool. 20:29:19 * kc5tja misses his first gen... :( 20:29:52 I hadn't driven stick in 5 years,.. and got to relearn on an ACT `racing' clutch, and this notchy 5 speed. 20:29:57 it was.. an experience. :) 20:29:58 How much longer you got to go on the breakin of the engine? 20:30:12 about 200 till I can rev all the way to 9k 20:30:17 * kc5tja nods 20:30:23 and then about 700 before I can start really hammering on it 20:30:31 9k isn't hammering it? 20:30:40 Especially when 7k is redline? :D 20:30:42 I mean, drag racing, et cetera 20:30:44 Ah 20:31:08 yeah, 7k is redline stock, but Mariah seems pretty confident with their engine build up 20:31:13 * kc5tja likes the '7 for cruising. I drive it like a roadster -- long, open, winding roads are my favorite. 20:31:20 yeah 20:31:40 this is going to be my track car,. I want to learn to drift with it, etc. 20:31:47 * kc5tja nods 20:32:08 the engine is worth more than the car, so.. :D 20:32:15 Heh 20:32:34 That's why I pamper mine. The rotary is so unique, that I want to preserve it. 20:32:40 yeah 20:32:46 this car is for beating the shit out of 20:32:50 Heh 20:32:52 .. with respect of course 20:33:06 the 2nd gen seems like the best sports car deal around 20:33:12 * kc5tja also wants to drive an RX-8 when they come out. I hear they're damn sweet cars. I just want to take it to 10K. :D 20:33:20 yeah 20:33:35 * kc5tja isn't so sure -- of all three generations, the 3rd is my all-time 'HOT DAMN!' car. 20:34:00 the 3rd gen doesn't have the price-for-performance though 20:34:32 the parts are expensive, the emissions systems are a pain to deal with 20:34:34 True, but it's a pig -- it really does need moderate to serious weight reduction to bring it back into the 2700lb class. 20:34:48 yeah 20:34:55 * kc5tja paid $1200 to get his 2nd gen back into smog conformance here in California. :) 20:34:57 Tell me about it. :D 20:35:08 haha, damn 20:35:31 I'm about to pull the stock exhaust, and go `non-compliant' 20:35:43 Hoho...now that'll get you a few HP.. :D 20:35:48 yeah 20:36:06 the racing beat 3" turbo-back exhaust is rated at about a 60HP increase with the stock TII 20:36:15 * kc5tja nods 20:36:19 not to mention it totally changes how the turbo spools up 20:36:47 I'm not really big on running w/out cats though, so I'll need to get one added. 20:36:59 * kc5tja nods 20:37:18 Nothing like the smell of thoroughly unburnt gasoline coming out the pipe... :D 20:37:24 haha 20:37:24 yeah 20:37:32 Thankfully the RENESIS is a hell of a lot better in that area. 20:37:37 yeah 20:37:42 * kc5tja just wants to know what the hell took Mazda so long on it. 20:37:45 it'll be interesting to see what happenes w/ that engine 20:38:08 Look at the rotor housings for the RENESIS -- that sucker is built like a tank, and it's not even turbo. 20:38:12 yeah 20:38:18 I think the walls are thicker than a 13B REW. 20:38:31 but it's also a higher compression engine, so I don't know how well it'd handle running 15 PSI of boost. :D 20:38:57 Well, like most rotaries, you'd probably have to put in lower compression rotors. 20:39:02 nod. 20:39:05 or go w/ something more mild. 20:39:07 Probably the REW's 9.0:1 20:39:11 * kc5tja nods 20:39:21