00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.04.26 00:25:47 --- join: ramnull (~nicad@12-241-145-39.client.attbi.com) joined #forth 00:32:55 --- quit: flyflu ("using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.2.4") 02:53:40 --- quit: ramnull ("This isn't Happy Hour!") 03:11:43 --- quit: a7r (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 03:56:33 --- join: monk23 (monk23@mstr195175-33493.dial-in.ttnet.net.tr) joined #forth 03:56:40 hi :9 04:01:47 anoyone studying in germany here ? :) 04:02:47 *anyone :) 04:10:57 --- join: tyler_durden (monk23@mstr195175-33276.dial-in.ttnet.net.tr) joined #forth 04:16:16 --- quit: monk23 (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 04:16:22 --- nick: tyler_durden -> monk23 04:19:48 --- nick: monk23 -> Xyber[avay] 04:20:25 --- nick: Xyber[avay] -> monk23 04:32:29 --- join: PoppaVic (~pfv@s132.waters.gtlakes.com) joined #forth 04:41:57 --- join: mur (murr@baana-62-165-188-13.phnet.fi) joined #forth 04:42:25 adsf. 04:42:31 asdf. 04:42:38 asdf! 04:43:14 qwerty 04:43:34 OOOOH! 04:44:08 * monk23 wonders what happened ? :) 04:44:31 :) 04:46:01 it is secret :/ 05:27:27 --- quit: monk23 () 05:35:02 --- join: karingo (karingo@137.portland-03-04rs.or.dial-access.att.net) joined #forth 05:41:04 did someone remember if a url was pasted in here of some person ripping into relational databases? 05:45:45 --- quit: Robert ("bbl, ~60min") 06:09:41 --- quit: karingo () 06:43:19 * fridge looks through the logs 06:48:08 --- join: Robert (~snofs@h138n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #forth 06:55:55 Robert you were away only 2 min :( 06:56:05 or does time go faster in sweden? :) 06:56:30 It does. 08:41:22 --- quit: XeF4_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:50:39 --- join: XeF4 (~xef4@lowfidelity.org) joined #forth 09:08:02 --- quit: Fractal (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:08:02 --- quit: njd (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:08:02 --- quit: semtex (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:08:02 --- quit: Robert (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:08:02 --- quit: PoppaVic (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:08:02 --- quit: Speuler (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:08:02 --- quit: onetom (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:08:02 --- quit: ChanServ (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:08:03 --- quit: skylan (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 09:08:03 --- quit: mur (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:08:03 --- join: XeF4_ (xef4@lowfidelity.org) joined #forth 09:08:03 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #forth 09:08:03 --- join: Robert (~snofs@h138n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #forth 09:08:03 --- join: PoppaVic (~pfv@s132.waters.gtlakes.com) joined #forth 09:08:03 --- join: njd (melons@njd.paradise.net.nz) joined #forth 09:08:03 --- join: Speuler (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba4673.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth 09:08:03 --- join: semtex (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba4673.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth 09:08:03 --- join: Fractal (gpmv@new.cure.for.SARS.found.to.be.strongLSD.com) joined #forth 09:08:03 --- join: skylan (sjh@Sprint245.tbaytel.net) joined #forth 09:08:03 --- join: onetom (~tom@novtan.bio.u-szeged.hu) joined #forth 09:08:03 --- mode: leguin.freenode.net set +o ChanServ 09:08:03 --- join: mur (murr@62.165.188.13) joined #forth 09:08:27 --- quit: XeF4 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:39:13 --- join: sifbot (~sifforth@h0010b5845c9f.ne.client2.attbi.com) joined #forth 09:39:13 Type sifbot: (or /msg sifbot to play in private) 09:40:36 sifbot: 42 42 42 09:40:37 XeF4_: 09:40:39 sifbot: .s 09:40:42 XeF4_: 09:40:57 sifbot: see .s 09:40:58 XeF4_: Word not found: see 09:41:25 sifbot: 0 0 ! 09:41:26 XeF4_: 09:41:31 hehe 09:41:37 you confuse the bot 09:42:03 what forth is sifbot running? 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10:07:59 no 10:08:13 only for as long as this Debian installation drags on 10:08:43 whine & whimper ;-) 10:08:45 heh 10:09:09 debian must be pretty bloated by now 10:09:45 it's hideous 10:09:58 absolutely disgusting 10:10:45 debian is fine.. 10:10:55 use slutware and stop whining ;-) 10:11:08 hm.. if i'd finished Retro we could be using it now.. it's 5 years old already :) 10:11:42 "if I finished...." 10:12:14 the colorforth-like system I was developing on a machine that is now lying in a heap in a room I've not set foot in for quite some time 10:12:27 at least I hope it still lying in a heap there 10:14:09 yeah, covered in rat droppings 10:14:13 I have zero interest in "living in forth" - I LIKE linux and code C all the time.. BUT, I still have a real soft-spot in my heart for Forth. 10:14:39 that's how I feel.. i abandoned Retro for a reason :) 10:15:39 for "general" use, I don't particularly like any system that is too big to be maintained by one person 10:16:14 I still have this "issue" with seeing "Forth as an OS" when linux does sooo well, but geezus.. as a shell/interp/compiler - it sure is cute. 10:16:15 yeah.. maybe for a corporate system it'd be ok 10:16:33 I doubt anyone, or even any 3 people together, understands in detail everything that goes into a "modern" linux distro 10:16:42 scary 10:16:48 I agre, too 10:17:28 ..I've opft commented "they need a 'feature' moratorium and a 'code-rewrite' phase" 10:17:34 OFT 10:17:37 hahahah 10:17:50 no, a feature rollback 10:18:03 no. 10:18:09 Poppa: you would be amazed at what can be justified as "not-feature"s 10:18:26 just STOP ADDING NEW SHIT - and, for the love of God - get a decent config. install and cleaner source 10:18:50 XeF4: I know - it's depressing 10:18:52 and organize the friggin kernel 10:19:00 yep 10:19:16 --- nick: mur_FOOD -> Mur 10:19:16 ..I never bother rebuilding the kernel anymore - for exactly those reasons. 10:19:32 I'd like to strip out all the non-x86 and multiuser crap 10:19:37 ..oh, and linux shoulder-shrug at instability. 10:19:55 well, it should ALL be parallel - yes 10:20:54 parallel kernels for various architectures, as opposed to one big kernel for everything, right? 10:21:26 yep 10:21:36 conditional includes AND builds 10:21:47 yeah 10:22:09 hell - you realize we don't even have a consistent, portable way to id a machine, cpu, ram, heap and platform? 10:22:55 you mean naming conventions? 10:23:35 no - I mean even wtf /etc has - in what file, line or field 10:23:44 "wtf EVEN.." 10:24:26 the portable fsilesystem format itself is a lost cause that most vendors pervert. 10:24:43 it that some new thing? 10:25:24 I'm using an older kernel.. 10:25:32 FSF? no - it's been around a long-while. 10:25:58 it's a doc on the web - and, you can't believe how folks bend it - even if it IS a bit too rigid. 10:26:08 oh, FSSTND 10:26:49 "what goes where" /bin /usr /usr/local /opt etc.. 10:27:10 yeah, that's the bugger 10:27:27 then the problem is, everything's buried 5 levels deep 10:28:11 yep, but... The logic in reality and that doc vary even more than by vendor 10:28:18 what a joke, for a personal computer.. i could put everything in /sbin and /bin 10:28:50 well, the concept of sbin and bin certainly are up for grabs, given all the linux vendors.. 10:29:49 i mean /sbin for the essential stuff, and /bin the applications and stuff which could be on another partition or something 10:31:31 none of this /usr/local/share/ ... 10:34:12 actually, the docs are pretty specific - but again, dated. Further, abused.. It needs a rewrite and either enforcement or standard ;-) 10:35:08 Windows doesn't have anything like that :) 10:36:01 god - spare me - doze is a blight 10:36:55 i used to keep things pretty well organized in DOS.. all the little utilities were in /bin, big programs had their own directory, and a batch file in /bin or /menu to start them, if I used 'em a lot.. 10:38:00 it's a lost cause. 10:39:19 actually Nethack does it right... everything in /usr/games/nethack or whatever, with a symlink the the main executable 10:39:47 hrrm... pass - I'm busy arguing libs in C ;-) 10:40:03 if I need that 10 megs back, rm /usr/games/nethack :) 10:53:29 --- join: ASau (~asau@158.250.48.197) joined #forth 10:53:33 join #retro 10:53:59 Good evening! 10:54:16 hello 11:02:10 Now, I've done with reconstructing fig-Forth 11:02:24 hehe 11:02:34 First step to portable version... 11:02:43 I ain't seen fig since - well, my antique newsletters 11:02:57 32-bit figforth? 11:03:19 no - back-back - although, I've heard there is a new version. 11:03:26 There is one existing 32bit 11:04:13 yeah, a little.. 11:04:29 my primgen-stuff is still working, but I still really, really need a slick C-method to bypass longjmp & asm. 11:05:33 Isforth wants to be a 32-bit FIGforth, sorta 11:05:40 I've done it to study internals more thorough way 11:06:32 Hm.. Why? 11:06:39 for more fun, try to figur how to make it mesh with C ;-) 11:07:09 I mean why to make isforth be more figgish? 11:07:26 I mean it looks kinda like FIG 11:07:33 who knows? the guy is into pure asm, too - I pass entirely. 11:07:38 anyway... 11:07:38 PoppaVic: any URL to yours? 11:07:49 huh? 11:08:05 my shit is still being beaten - no url.. but try me in the am. 11:08:09 I've not heard of your works earlier 11:08:10 anyway.. 11:08:17 PoppaVic: what C and Forth are you using? 11:08:22 --- quit: PoppaVic ("needs some chow and a flick") 11:08:29 heheh 11:08:50 Has he got afraid? 11:08:57 tired 11:09:24 but i wanted to ask him more about meshing C and Forth :) 11:10:48 well, we'll try back in about 16 hours 11:11:53 I don't think I'll have enough time to go here next week... 11:19:33 I'll be back in 15 min 11:19:35 --- quit: ASau ("Toffee IRC client for DOS v1.0/b535") 11:20:33 --- quit: tcn ("That's it for today") 11:25:15 --- join: ASau (~asau@158.250.48.197) joined #forth 11:25:42 I am back 11:25:53 Good evening! 11:26:10 Where is tcn? 11:29:16 20:20:31 -!- tcn [~r@tc1-login23.megatrondata.com] has quit ["That's it for today"] 11:29:20 20:25:13 -!- ASau [~asau@158.250.48.197] has joined #forth 11:29:38 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@ip68-8-206-137.sd.sd.cox.net) joined #forth 11:29:58 Good evening! 11:30:05 Privet, Robert! 11:30:16 re 11:31:13 Merely noon where I am. :) 11:31:14 Privet, ASau :) 11:31:14 Hi kc5tja 11:31:18 --- join: tcn (~r@tc2-login44.megatrondata.com) joined #forth 11:38:44 --- join: fridge (meldrum@zeus.zipworld.com.au) joined #forth 11:39:01 Good evening, fridge! 11:39:16 thanks for the warm welcome 11:39:21 :) 11:39:24 Hi 11:39:29 doh :) hey all 11:41:19 I'll be back in 15 min. 11:41:44 * ASau is trying to get RetroForth running 11:41:47 heheh 11:42:00 * tcn should send Asau his old 386 ;) 11:42:02 --- quit: ASau ("Toffee IRC client for DOS v1.0/b535") 11:42:24 but postage for 50 lbs to Russia would cost more than the damn machine is worth :) 11:43:20 I'm closer to russia, so if ASau feels like taking the bus... ;) 11:44:57 well, mine boots 11:46:09 I've got a few spare computers... But like you say, shipping to Nowher..I mean, russia, would cost too much. 11:46:49 heh 11:47:25 maybe you could give him 2 and he could sell 1 in russia to pay for the bus tickets :) 11:48:35 well, '100 160 at 50 circle' works :) 11:48:37 Hah, sure. 11:48:51 * Robert would like to see tcn travel 10000km by bus. 11:48:53 but for some reason x and y are backwards 11:49:15 oh.. didn't realize sweden was so far from russia :) 11:49:25 It isn't. 11:49:27 that's like here to Alaska 11:49:32 But Russia if far from Russia. 11:49:39 is* 11:49:55 And I don't remember from where ASau is 11:51:13 --- join: ASau (~asau@158.250.48.197) joined #forth 11:51:28 any luck? 12:03:04 * kc5tja has the Wiki for his ATM ARNI stuff up. 12:03:14 (for those interested in ATM for amateur radio) 12:03:36 What's ATM? 12:03:46 Asynchronous Transfer Mode 12:03:59 It's a networking protocol at the same level as Ethernet. 12:04:24 Thanks. 12:05:21 Only, in my opinion, better. :) 12:05:36 Anyway, for those who are interested, you can see it at http://cut.sourceforge.net/arni 12:13:12 One more time 15 min :) 12:13:13 --- quit: ASau ("Toffee IRC client for DOS v1.0/b535") 12:26:25 * tcn is away. Automatically set away [SZon] 12:28:59 ignore that.. i'm here ;) 12:32:18 hehe 12:35:43 RFnet, eh? apparently RF also stands for RetroForth :) 12:36:11 :) 12:36:44 I couldn't think of a better name for it. It originally started out as GARNET (General purpose Amateur Radio NETwork), but doggone it, it's already taken (and it's wireless to boot; talk about non-fortune... :( ) 12:37:01 hahah 12:37:22 i had something similar in mind called Freenet :) 12:37:38 Heh -- oops. :) 12:37:49 it started out as a UUCP net (when Fido mailers were the thing) but it was gonna be RF at some point 12:38:49 at it's height, it was my linux-bbs and 1 or 2 DOS bbs's using some uucp front-end I cobbled together for them :) 12:39:08 Heh 12:39:13 --- join: ASau (~asau@158.250.48.197) joined #forth 12:39:28 Our amateur radio network is pretty much already UUCP-like. 12:39:42 * kc5tja is looking to bring amateur packet radio at least into the 20th century. :D 12:39:53 Seriously, I like packet BBSes. 12:39:55 I want to keep them. 12:39:58 yeah 12:40:08 But we do definitely need a better network routing and message delivery service. 12:40:11 all the info in one place, not scattered on the net :) 12:47:20 * ASau takes half-hour time out. 12:47:23 --- quit: ASau ("Toffee IRC client for DOS v1.0/b535") 12:47:53 he's got me back to working on Retro :) 12:48:04 --- join: ramnull (~nicad@12-241-145-39.client.attbi.com) joined #forth 12:48:19 Who does? 12:48:22 Asau? :) 12:48:22 Asau 12:48:25 Heheh :D 12:49:04 if i'm gonna write a good little linux kernel replacement i'd better be able to debug an even simpler forth kernel :) 12:49:30 Heheh 12:49:38 tcn: Your gonna write a kernel? 12:50:05 i want to.. i'm planning it well in advance this time though 12:50:32 tcn: It'll be a good learning experience if nothing else. 12:50:43 --- join: divgrad (~wer@81.25.33.146) joined #forth 12:51:14 tcn: Start off simple. At least that's my motto. 12:51:18 yeah 12:51:55 keep it that way, too 12:52:37 I've tried writing kernels before. Only to realize that I only have about 1/4 the knowledge needed to complete it. 12:53:02 crc and I talked about exchanging code but it looks like my C code could coexist with forth just fine.. 12:54:05 so you might see a unix-like variant of Retro :) 12:55:06 Yah know, I dont think it would be too difficult to write a series of Forth wrappers around the Linux syscalls. Sort of like a Forth glibc. 12:55:55 Of course, theres a boatload of Linux syscalls. 12:56:31 i440r's done it :) 12:57:11 Well, I440r has sort of a generic syscall interface. You still have to write in all the parameter details and such. 12:57:16 but really, Forth programs should also be able to use libc.. Linux/GNU just makes it so complicated 12:57:37 C progs could use libforth, too :) 12:58:57 Personally I'd have the Forth thread itself off with the additional C interface dictionary, rather than include all that in the "core" Forth compiler. 12:59:13 yeah 12:59:19 --- join: ASau (~asau@158.250.48.197) joined #forth 12:59:24 i.e. Have two Forths talking to each other. 12:59:37 oh i ee 13:00:54 i.e. One main simple Forth loop running with the specific purpose of coordinating the other "extended" Forths running on the system. 13:02:17 You could have your Graphics Card Forth, your Network Interface Forth, your Peripheral Devices Forth. 13:02:45 i.e. Cause that's how the guts of a PC look. 13:03:50 All you need is a really good metacompiler. 13:04:02 and you do want the network running in the background.. 13:04:40 not so sure i'd handle graphics that way 13:05:16 I dont care. I leave those design decisions up to the implementors. They usually do a pretty good job when freed to do what they do best. 13:06:33 heheh 13:07:18 Theres a place for everything, everything in it's place. 13:07:59 --- part: divgrad left #forth 13:08:42 You'd have a sort of Hurd like system, cept running on Forth VMs instead of servers. 13:09:17 a forth microkernel 13:09:40 www.forthos.org ? ;) 13:10:10 Well, a forth microvm. With the other "extended" VMs branching off of it. 13:10:47 you should try it out, ramnull :) 13:10:48 You could run it on top of an existing OS as well as a bare system. 13:11:10 forthos.org?? 13:11:11 Even in userspace. 13:12:02 Heh. Working my way up to that level. 13:12:07 My figForth, when tuned to use BIOS calls, runs as stand-alone and in DOS user space :) 13:12:46 My Forth experience has given me a newfound respect for hardware designers and implementors. 13:13:38 ASau: What version of DOS? 13:14:41 MS DOSes: 6.0 6.22 7.0 7.1, FreeDOS 2.8.??, RxDOS 6, OpenDOS 7.?? 13:15:08 What do you prefer? ;) 13:15:19 ASau: I bet it'd run better on IBMs 32bit DOS. 13:16:05 If you know 32 bit prot.mode loader, I'll easily make it run 32 bit. 13:16:47 Also you provide 32 bit hardw.drivers in asm :) 13:17:16 "Money first" :) 13:18:29 I.e. given loader and drivers in morning, you get figForth in evening. 13:18:34 Retro has a 32-bit loader.. it just don't work for you :( 13:18:49 I know it pretty well. :(( 13:18:52 ASau: Dont tempt me. I might just do it. 13:19:02 * ramnull grins 13:21:51 * ASau goes on in search of the loader. 13:21:59 Good night! 13:22:03 Bye all! 13:22:05 --- quit: ASau ("Toffee IRC client for DOS v1.0/b535") 13:22:11 Hmmm...A simple "core" Forth thread, for coordinating the other Forths would have a scheduler(obviously), a message protocol, hmmm...and a loader/"linker". 13:22:55 That's about it. 13:23:17 And theoretically, it could all be done in one loop. 13:36:26 well, that's been enough IRC for one day, I guess :) 13:37:18 --- quit: Mur ("MURR!") 13:37:47 --- quit: tcn ("That's it for today") 14:05:28 Sorry, I've got a really powerful headache right now... :( I think I'll go afk for a bit... 14:15:03 bbl. Gotta code. 14:15:05 --- quit: ramnull ("This isn't Happy Hour!") 14:22:59 --- join: TheBlueWizard (~tbw@pc92dn1d.ppp.fcc.net) joined #forth 14:23:11 hiya all...will be brief here 14:23:18 re tbw 14:23:26 TheBlueWizard: http://cut.sourceforge.net/arni 14:23:37 hiya kc5tja :) 14:23:42 hmm... 14:24:15 * TheBlueWizard is looking at it now 14:24:23 * kc5tja nods 14:25:39 s/relavent/relevant/ in the text 14:26:15 heh 14:26:32 I've a headache from lack of food. What do you want? :D You're lucky the site exists at all... ;) 14:26:38 and is as coherent as it is. 14:26:38 interesting project....of course I don't have ATM nor radio stuff 14:27:01 hehe...hey, I'm only helping you (a bit, FWIW) 14:27:14 * kc5tja nods 14:27:35 lack of food...are you saying you are running out of cash? 14:28:38 No. I'm saying I haven't had anything to eat since yesterday evening. 14:29:09 ok 14:29:26 looks like you just started this project yesterday, eh? 14:29:58 Pretty close. 14:30:17 I've been working on the theory of it for several years, but I've only now started to actually document my stuff. 14:30:26 I'd like to see it realized too. 14:30:42 Not exactly sure how to do it "all at once," so I'm going to do it in a step-wise fashion. 14:31:01 My first goal is to get two computers to talk to each other via wireless ATM. That's goal #1. :) 14:31:22 Next comes the ad hoc LAN support (which is a requirement anyway, since hams just love to do ad hoc LANs). 14:31:33 After that will come the routing infrastructure and protocols. 14:32:11 Of course, parallel to all this will be the various applications (e.g., BBS software, mail transport protocols, etc) 14:33:14 makes sense...I personally would like to see a scalable IP-like format...by scalable, I mean it can be very short, as is suitable for very local communication, or loner for purpose of routing, or very long, for interplanetary communication....there is a group working on that sort of project...I forgot the exact name 14:35:20 What do you mean by IP-like format? 14:35:30 I assume the pronoun 'it' refers to that format... 14:38:11 by 'it' I am thinking of a thing as yet not developed...I just use the well known IP format as a talking point....i.e. it has source address, dest. address, port numbers, etc. 14:38:33 no 14:38:36 We don't have that. 14:38:45 ATM addresses do not address computers, but unique services. 14:38:54 So a "port number" is unnecessary. 14:39:07 Connections are established at the time a "call" is made to the other machine. 14:39:20 These connections are assigned a unique "virtual circuit ID". 14:39:32 The cells address flows of data using this ID. 14:39:56 THis is how ATM can get away with only a 5-byte header, independent of network size. 14:40:15 Each switch in the fabric is responsible for suitably updating the header as it relays cells. 14:40:23 hence, NAT is inherent in the protocol. 14:41:33 I didn't go into this on the site yet, because I haven't gotten around to it. 14:41:41 But hopefully soon, as time and initiative permits. :) 14:42:31 Besides, the IP-like format for ham radio has SERIOUS performance penalties, because end-to-end flow control (e.g., as with TCP) can REALLY clog the network, and DRASTICALLY improves the chances of a packet getting dropped due to errors. 14:42:36 hmm...of course I don't know anything about this sort of stuff, so I might as well be babbling in the dark...what I was trying to say is that I would like to see an extendible protocol that one doesn't have to rearchitect a stack every time a new (sub)protocol appears 14:42:56 ATM is it. 14:43:11 Note that an ATM header does not have a "protocol type" field in it. :D 14:43:16 * TheBlueWizard nods re: your not having a chance to go into details on the website...and wishes you best of lucks :) 14:43:38 The upper-layer protocol is implicit in the interface of the service you're connecting to. Hence, if you want to use a new type of sub-protocol, just use a different service address. Very simple. 14:44:11 IP even seems to be going in this direction: e.g., port 80 is pure HTTP, while port 443 is SSL-encrypted HTTP. 14:44:51 Also note that I *do* intend on standardizing the mapping of TCP/IP connections to ATM ARNI services (or to other TCP/IP connections on the other side). 14:45:14 It'll strip all the basic overhead of TCP/IP, and just uses raw ATM. Ham radio bandwidth is too precious to waste otherwise. 14:59:45 uh....I will say that port 80 is no longer pure HTTP...example: SOAP (incidentially, it makes security monitoring very hard or impossible...not good) 15:00:52 --- join: Klaw (~anonymous@ip68-101-120-167.oc.oc.cox.net) joined #forth 15:02:19 Well, in my network, my rules ... rule. :D 15:03:14 a rule made by one...a rule for one....when more come in, then some tussling happens :) 15:09:12 Well, much of the IP heresy is because of security and firewall. 15:09:20 Ham radio has neither. 15:10:39 if you say so :) I am no network guru, but I do know security drills 15:12:24 The reason all these protocols go over port 80 is two-fold: 15:12:53 1. Security. It's not possible to constantly reconfigure every firewall in the world to open up a new port for every new Internet service. (Sorry, I disagree with this, but that is the thinking in the industry) 15:13:15 2. HTTP protocol is very much an object oriented remote procedure call mechanism anyway, may as well use it. 15:13:36 RFnet won't advocate HTTP; that protocol has just too much baggage to it. 15:14:22 1. consistantly 15:14:29 * kc5tja will instead advocate a more orthogonal protocol for distributed hypertext. Preferably something that's a real page description layout system. 15:14:45 s/consistancy/consistency/ 15:15:38 Constantly works just as well. 15:32:23 well, I gotta go...bye all!!! 15:32:45 --- part: TheBlueWizard left #forth 15:32:54 Laters 16:35:07 --- quit: Speuler (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:35:53 --- join: Speuler (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba4bd3.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth 16:44:20 --- join: CaffeineJunkie (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba4bd3.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth 16:52:01 --- quit: semtex (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:28:03 --- join: ramnull (~nicad@12-241-145-39.client.attbi.com) joined #forth 17:48:06 --- part: fridge left #forth 18:19:56 --- join: cpu2 (~cpu2@c66.190.103.147.ts46v-01.mrshll.tx.charter.com) joined #forth 18:20:44 --- nick: cpu2 -> snowrichard 18:21:34 hello 18:21:47 * kc5tja gasps 18:21:48 :) 18:21:53 Hey 18:21:53 Someone speaks in the channel! 18:21:59 Miracle, isn't it? 18:22:08 :( !! Our packet BBS is having major connectivity issues. :( 18:22:35 I've been plahing with a little forth-like language (but I am writing in C, not much of an assembler coder). 18:23:01 Fine by me, but don't let I440r hear you say that... :D 18:23:10 Haha, right 18:23:36 but I have a copy of his isforth too 18:24:37 in my C version I compile the primitives to a byte code 18:25:28 That can be useful... so that you can put that byte code on a small chip and take over the world. 18:25:30 I once made a Steamer16 emulator in C, for inclusion in an embedded project I was working on at the time. Management killed it though. We were going to use it to run Forth for diagnostic purposes. 18:25:43 which indexes into an array of a structure that contains the name, an immediate flag, and the c function address. 18:27:32 well I don't have any management to deal with :) this is my own computer and my own time 18:29:05 * kc5tja nods 18:29:51 * kc5tja is still interested in creating a discrete component version of the Steamer16 actually. Maybe someday. 18:30:07 I am not familiar with this steamer16 18:31:14 It's a very simple stack architecture CPU that fits in a CPLD. 18:31:39 It has only one stack (the data stack) which is 3 elements deep. 18:31:46 It has only 8 instructions. 18:31:55 Opcodes are packed 5 wide in a single 16-bit word. 18:32:02 The 16th bit is ignored. 18:32:18 I am not a hardware wizard. I have read about lots of different hardware but when it comes to soldering I burn myself. :) 18:32:24 Data is inlined after each instruction word, as needed, in the order it's needed. 18:32:59 The Steamer is interesting because it's real-world performance rivals an 80386 in practice. It's astonishing to see how good it is, for something so utterly simple. :) 18:34:24 back in the old days someone came up with something that had a similar name, sweet-16, which was a math package for the 6502. 18:36:08 --- part: snowrichard left #forth 18:36:32 Math package implies software, not hardware. Was it a hardware coprocessor? 18:36:52 * kc5tja does intend on building a 65816 CPU-based computer for himself at some point. 18:46:04 Gotta go... 18:46:08 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK") 20:36:41 --- quit: njd ("praetorian") 20:48:18 --- join: njd (~junk@njd.paradise.net.nz) joined #forth 20:52:07 --- quit: njd ("changing servers") 22:36:11 --- join: njd (melons@njd.paradise.net.nz) joined #forth 23:27:08 All you guys lurking? 23:28:02 bbl 23:28:04 --- quit: ramnull ("This isn't Happy Hour!") 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/03.04.26