00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.04.03 00:31:00 God bless loeliger ;-) 00:32:43 4559 bytes: and Speuler has a TIL ;-) 00:35:36 hahaha! stripped, the binary is only 4404 - Gofd, I love it ;-> 00:37:01 sifbot: words 00:37:02 PoppaVic: ." .( : if then do loop repeat until exit ... 00:37:39 sifbot: " : test 30 0 do ." +" loop ; 00:37:41 PoppaVic: Word not found: " 00:38:14 sifbot: : test 30 0 do ." +" loop ; 00:38:15 PoppaVic: 00:38:19 test 00:38:24 sifbot: test 00:38:26 PoppaVic: Word not found: test 00:38:58 sifbot: : test 30 0 do ." sifbot's an IDIOT" loop ; test 00:39:00 PoppaVic: sifbot's an IDIOTsifbot's an IDIOTsifbot's an IDIO 00:39:11 silly machine. 00:42:47 Speuler: my bad... delete the first "debug("}COLON ", VM);" on line 93 01:24:06 damn this places dies 01:38:54 --- join: fridge (meldrum@zipperii.zip.com.au) joined #forth 02:01:01 --- join: ramnull (~nicad@12-241-145-39.client.attbi.com) joined #forth 02:32:45 --- quit: ramnull ("This isn't Happy Hour!") 02:44:31 * PoppaVic idolates 03:18:48 too early.. snooze-time.. 03:18:50 --- quit: PoppaVic ("(I don't need a reason)") 04:57:04 --- join: deluxe (~deluxe@pD9E4ED4D.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 04:57:22 salut 04:57:33 hello sifbot 04:57:44 sifbot: hello 04:57:46 deluxe: Word not found: hello 04:59:36 sifbot: :hello ." welcome" . ; 04:59:37 deluxe: Word not found: :hello 04:59:45 sifbot: : hello ." welcome" . ; 04:59:47 deluxe: 04:59:53 sifbot: hello 04:59:55 deluxe: Word not found: hello 05:00:43 sifbot: : hello 1 2 3 + + . ; 05:00:44 deluxe: 05:00:56 sifbot: hello 05:00:57 deluxe: Word not found: hello 05:02:02 doesn't want to remember user defined words 05:02:38 or he doesn't like newbies ;-) 05:08:02 fridge: futhin set up the hp, right? 05:11:37 --- join: gilbertdeb (~gilbert@fl-nked-ubr2-c3a-29.dad.adelphia.net) joined #forth 05:15:21 onetom: For what? 05:15:49 hi Robert 05:16:21 Hi gilbertdeb :)( 05:17:44 whats news in #forth ? 05:17:49 futhin set up the hp, yes? 05:18:26 deluxe: I think so, yes. 05:19:27 because there's a .ca webmin mail adress... 05:19:55 :) 05:19:57 did you discuss the page recently? 05:20:11 Yes, we were talking about what futhin though about us :P 05:20:27 04:15:32 < Robert> "robert 05:20:27 04:15:33 < Robert> always on irc, very condescending, should be banned ;) website" 05:20:34 He's so nice to me! 05:20:45 awwwww 05:20:51 LOL 05:24:52 deluxe: were you supposedly doing something about a forth chip? 05:24:55 or did I read wrongly? 05:29:04 gilbertdeb: i'm very interested in this subject, yes. why? 05:29:16 ah how does one get them? 05:29:31 better yet, whats your interest? 05:30:16 gilbertdeb: x25 not available yet... 05:30:30 what will you do with it? 05:31:15 built an exciting new mobo 05:31:35 kewl 05:32:24 have you built a mobo yet? 05:32:33 or will this be your first project? 05:33:23 if it happens at all... (what about you?) 05:33:52 never delved in electronics... 05:33:57 but I am suddenly getting interested. 05:34:28 I was browsing through the 6502 pages when I realized with a few reads of TFM, I might actually build something 'interesting'. 05:34:49 more like surfing through. 05:36:26 gilbertdeb: never built a mobo b4, more dreaming about 05:36:58 gilbertdeb: and a forth newbie 05:39:35 gilbertdeb: but there's a strong potential 05:40:45 so when are you getting the x25? 05:41:12 gilbertdeb: but if we get 100000 bought cpu's together, dunno 05:41:32 what do you mean? 05:43:42 I mean, what do you mean by "100,000 bought cpu's" 05:44:02 a reasonable production minimum is 100.000 cpu's, if there are enough buyers, we could have the x25 in some months 05:44:25 oh. 05:44:37 thats gonna be tricky. 05:44:57 even if they each sold for a buck, there is no way I can fork over that much. 05:47:32 of course, several hundred forthers are needed... 05:50:26 if they're 1 buck each, i take 19 05:50:30 10 05:50:32 or 20 05:51:32 would pass one to poor gilb 05:52:19 Speuler: '10 or 20' good idea 05:52:55 but no way they're going to be in that price range 05:53:41 :) 05:54:06 I am interested. 05:54:11 a 25'er cpucluster per mobo? 05:54:13 as long as it is not too expensive :) 05:54:44 Speuler: have you worked with the 6809 and the amd 29k? 05:54:58 6809 yes 05:55:00 29k no 05:55:10 who made the 6809? 05:55:15 motorola 05:55:24 bah. should have seen that. 05:55:32 they made all the 68xx series 05:55:35 and the 68xxx 05:55:39 forgot all about that. 05:56:48 there are several emulators, running under linux 05:56:49 Speuler: how much do you estimate 1/100.000 x25 will cost? 05:57:13 estimate 50 $ 05:57:46 seriously? how come? 05:58:02 methinks under $10 05:58:04 because you asked me to 05:59:30 i think $5 is possible, but i'm a newbie 05:59:56 hmm. novix was put on gate array, not pulled up silicon. was (4000) gates about 100 $ . don't know about numbers though 06:00:15 x25 probably more complex to produce 06:01:00 the 100.000 mass make the price 06:01:09 f21 estimate was iirc "as slow as 2 $" if produced in quantity 06:01:19 as low ... 06:02:02 the novix wasn't produced in taiwan, or? 06:02:37 nope 06:02:54 in the $5 are 2 sample runs included 06:03:06 'more complex' 06:03:21 I was reading some place that the z80 and the 6502 cost all of 2-7 bucks. 06:04:37 i don't think cm will demand 'fat profit' 06:05:56 but those chips are very old so thats prolly why. 06:06:23 almost 22 years old!! 06:06:31 I suddenly feel young. 06:07:03 gilbertdeb: 'old' that's why i say 'fat profit' 06:07:26 I mean the z80,6502,6809 are old. 06:07:34 Speuler: what was the 6809 like? 06:07:39 risc? cisc? none of the above? 06:07:40 nice 06:07:48 cisc 06:07:57 hmmm. 06:08:05 I am getting a headache already. 06:08:06 best non-forth cpu to write forth in 06:09:37 interesting is, how to do the cpucluster on the mobo 06:10:00 deluxe: are you interested in building a cluster? 06:10:06 I think it would be a neat project!!! 06:10:11 'f course you need an x25 as keyboard controller. :) 06:10:12 a diy cdc 6600 :) 06:10:40 and one for serial i/o 06:10:56 wait I didn't get that? 06:11:07 you need a keyboard controller IC and a something else io? 06:11:26 don't think of a 'normal' cluster yet 06:12:03 i meant clustering cpu's on the mobo 06:13:02 Thats what I thought you meant. 06:13:10 what did you think I thought you meant?> 06:13:37 clustering boxes to a supercomputer... 06:15:25 is there somebody here, who has experience w/ mainframes? 06:15:25 Speuler: which available chip do you recommend for messing around with first? 06:15:39 * gilbertdeb points at speuler. he prolly does. 06:15:59 the A/390 ? 06:17:06 i started learning about computers on a ibm 370 06:17:31 but it didn't take long to become more interested in smaller machines 06:18:01 Speuler: about how fast would you say the 370 is? 06:18:57 it can multiply two numbers quicker than i can 06:19:09 heheh. 06:19:14 relative to machines of today. 06:19:27 --- quit: onetom (Remote closed the connection) 06:19:32 difficult to estimate 06:19:46 i'd say, 50...100 mhz pentium 06:19:55 :O 06:19:57 that _Fast_? 06:20:01 hm 06:20:09 thats not bad at all!!! 06:20:27 ibm 3900 could search primary numbers as quickly as novix could 06:21:29 Speuler: what would you say the advantage of mainframe arch is? 06:21:41 are there things modern desktop/deskside/whatevers can't do that the 370 still does well? 06:21:51 eg warming a small apartment? :) 06:21:58 touche deluxe 06:22:07 their rest value in metal weight is higher 06:22:22 hahaha. 06:22:23 LOL 06:22:48 meanwhile, general-purpose cpu have mainframe architecture 06:22:56 x386+ for example 06:23:01 Speuler: how much time did you spent on mainframes? 06:23:08 memory management unit 06:23:17 was inspired by maneframes 06:23:24 2 weeks 06:23:25 :) 06:23:34 hmmm. 06:23:57 but the 386 machine did not do as much heavy lifting as mainframes were designed to do! 06:24:08 so thats where the whole CISC thing comes from is'nt it? 06:24:38 yes there's something interesting about memory mgmt 06:26:05 how about buying old laptops from ebay and gutting them out? 06:26:12 reason why i didn't like learning about mainframes was their lack of interactiveness 06:26:21 batch processing? 06:26:22 risc is more misc as cisc, no? 06:26:36 john is more jane as joan, no? 06:26:45 and when i was exploring another machine, with built-in interpreter, i just forgot about the mainframes 06:27:08 deluxe: right 06:28:20 that's interesting for me, but how to specialize the cpucluster parts? 06:28:31 how? 06:28:43 think 'recursion'. 06:28:49 think if n == 0. 06:28:51 what next? 06:29:17 eeproms are too slow, no? 06:29:26 why are they too slow? 06:29:43 relatively... 06:29:45 ??? 06:29:55 'are they expensive for diy' is my question. 06:30:15 erm, diy=? 06:30:23 do it yourself. 06:31:01 --- quit: fridge ("http://lice.codehack.com") 06:32:11 gilbertdeb: in longterm probably not 06:32:25 Speuler: eeproms are too slow, no? 06:33:22 what is "too" ? 06:33:30 --- join: onetom (~tom@novtan.bio.u-szeged.hu) joined #forth 06:33:39 they are slower than ram 06:34:27 flash is quicker 06:34:39 and easier to write to 06:34:49 easier to erase 06:35:11 ignore the last 06:35:18 eeproms are easier to erase :) 06:35:40 well. 06:35:43 about the same 06:36:06 depends on what you want to erase 06:36:07 Speuler: flash can equal which max. ram speed? 06:36:20 yes, about, for reading 06:36:28 writing is way slower 06:36:28 deluxe: got a need for speed? 06:36:54 and you can't overwrite a location without erasing it first 06:37:08 (if you want to set a bit which was zero) 06:37:10 perhaps you might be interested in this n>1 Ghz machine with n>1 Gb ram module :) 06:37:51 a pentium 2 ghz with 4x256mg dram ? 06:38:10 n>=1 :) 06:38:23 I stubbornly refuse to buy a ghz machine. 06:38:25 4x256 + video ram 06:39:23 there are a few things i can't do with a slower machine 06:39:41 like video stuff? 06:39:45 right 06:39:54 get an sgi! 06:40:09 can't fit my 50$ framegrabber in ther 06:40:11 there 06:40:26 its a physical device? 06:40:41 yes. pci card 07:04:44 don't have hardware compression though 07:05:10 no real need with a reasonably quick cpu 07:05:31 that machine is still slow, compared to toadys standard 07:05:38 1.8 g celeron 07:06:15 compresses about does about 22 frames/sec 768x576 07:06:27 almost realtime 07:08:10 (company i come out for right now makes presentation systems. getting spots and presentations into the machine from cam is important) 07:08:58 everything is running under linux 07:09:23 i have liberated most machines here by now 07:09:45 and, guess, people really like it 07:11:04 that's actually the reason why i joined, when they were contemplating rebuilding their sytems, using linux 07:11:29 but of course i didn't stop at the presentation system 07:11:54 there's now exactly one computer remaining, running win 07:12:21 and that one runs with xserver software :) 07:16:42 which linux would you recommend for a 500mhz/300mb box? 07:19:14 debian 07:19:30 maybe gentoo 07:22:45 but to compile gentoo would take ages, no? 07:23:25 takes longer than installing debian, yes 07:25:45 never tried gentoo, someone said for compiling/installing gentoo there should be at least a 1ghz box there (for a reasonable install time) 07:26:27 compiling a kernel under debian takes about the same time 07:26:40 as compiling one under gentoo 07:27:11 but with gentoo, all apps you're installing are compiled too 07:27:33 but as a result, the system should run a bit quicker 07:34:19 yes. have you compiled gentoo already on a 500mhz box? 07:34:28 nope 07:39:10 --- quit: deluxe (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:00:54 --- join: deluxe (~deluxe@pD9E4E602.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 08:54:57 --- quit: deluxe ("Client exiting") 09:10:58 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~z@ppp143-186.dialup.mtu-net.ru) joined #forth 09:11:09 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (Client Quit) 09:31:11 --- join: I440r (~mark4@1Cust29.tnt3.bloomington.in.da.uu.net) joined #forth 09:53:39 --- join: tathi (~josh@wsip68-15-54-54.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 09:54:41 hi 09:54:47 just released 1.12b 09:55:13 Cool :) 09:55:15 What's new? 09:55:28 fixed a realy silly bug in the text widnowing code that was making me set the cursor location prior to the output of EVERY SINGLE character 09:55:41 rewrote the args handling code. i now consider this to be sane :) 09:56:11 ive included an example forth script file "cat.f" that works sort of like the unix cat command 09:56:26 cat.f somefile writes all of "somefile" to stdout :) 09:56:36 cat.f file1 file2 file3 > file4 09:56:38 etc 09:56:47 very small :) 09:57:06 How do you invoke it? isforth - float cat.f file1 ... ? 09:57:16 no 09:57:18 ./cat.f blah 09:57:22 Ah 09:57:26 its a shebanged script file 09:57:31 OK :) 09:57:36 and we no longer use - fload 09:57:42 ./isforth -fload blah.f 09:57:45 :) 09:57:49 I'll go download it. 09:58:25 tell me if you have problems. last time i updated i forgot to also update the link to the new bzip heh 09:59:29 Uhm 09:59:30 404 :) 10:00:11 whats 404 - the bzip or the page ? 10:00:53 bzip 10:03:23 ok try now. i had a typo :) 10:03:42 #forth.tec.ru doesnt work for me 10:03:54 erm http://forth.tec.ru even 10:04:04 lol 10:04:15 htt://forth.tec.nu 10:04:20 That's what you wrote :) 10:04:26 Not http://forth.tec.nu 10:04:32 .ru != .nu btw :P 10:05:07 erm. i mean .nu 10:05:12 is it at .nu ? 10:05:18 Yeah. 10:05:20 thats what i have in my link and its not working :P 10:05:24 And http, not htt :) 10:05:38 that would be it :P 10:06:31 You should check that the page is correct... otherwise it's like releasing 1000 lines of totally untested Forth code. ;) 10:06:41 bleh :/ 10:06:44 i dont do html 10:06:45 lol 10:06:55 what is the exact url for this channels web page 10:06:59 i STILl aint gettin it 10:07:16 * Robert points at topic 10:07:21 the #forth website http://forth.tech.nu | native x86 linux forth http://isforth.clss.net 10:07:35 its .tecH 10:07:35 grrr 10:07:45 futhin emailed me forth.tec.nu dammit 10:08:35 Another reason you should try the URLs.. don't trust junkies like futhin 10:09:07 --- join: deluxe (~deluxe@p508050D6.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 10:09:23 kc5 is listed in the user list on the page - is he back here as a regular now ? 10:09:28 * I440r hopes so! 10:09:31 No :( 10:09:46 I've seen him a few times here though 10:09:51 Remember why he left? 10:09:56 Robert always on irc, very condescending, should be banned ; 10:09:59 heh 10:10:23 Yeah... I'll get that bastard! 10:10:36 :) 10:14:30 --- quit: I440r ("Reality Strikes Again") 10:14:42 --- join: I440r (~mark4@1Cust29.tnt3.bloomington.in.da.uu.net) joined #forth 10:15:15 oopts 10:16:46 Wrong button? 10:17:02 :/ 10:25:53 ill bbl 10:25:55 --- quit: I440r ("Reality Strikes Again") 10:26:33 --- join: krish (KRISHNAKUM@61.1.220.144) joined #forth 10:26:44 hello! 10:27:23 Hej :) 10:29:52 --- part: flyfly left #forth 10:42:50 --- join: PoppaVic (~pfv@s88.waters.gtlakes.com) joined #forth 10:43:29 Well, what have I been missing. 10:45:05 'evening 10:45:06 PoppaVic: hi! 10:45:21 Speuler: hi! 10:45:32 krish ! 10:45:57 Hi.. Damnit, Speuler - I sent the solution.. But it bounced. 10:47:16 dcc Speuler 10:47:44 hmm 10:47:50 just looking at the mail log 10:48:04 there's none which has bounced 10:48:05 The source was 4456 chars, the stripped code was 4404 ;-) 10:48:25 well, do yer dcc - same file, sans chrotling note. 10:48:38 dcc won't work 10:48:43 shit. 10:49:03 firewall i guess 10:49:09 right 10:49:23 Speuler@forthfreak.net should do 10:49:40 or try Speuler@logilan.info 10:49:44 l@sbin.de 10:50:37 ah 10:50:44 there's one bounced mail 10:50:49 pfv 10:50:51 I'll try to reply to yer emai 10:50:57 that's you 10:51:03 well, sure - that's my id at the isp 10:52:05 incoming... 10:52:12 splash. 10:53:43 I believe that file should work fine for you - even the asm-output loked clean. 10:53:49 loOked 10:59:21 Well, did it get thru to any of those three? 11:05:33 --- join: Stepan (~stepan@likes.smoking.and.watching.spacenight.dk) joined #forth 11:05:36 hi there 11:05:57 Hi :) 11:05:59 lo 11:07:29 Speuler - yo! One of those three should have arrived. 11:07:40 --- join: Gnomon (~Gnomon@CPE000103c34069-CM014300001653.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) joined #forth 11:08:43 i got two 11:08:58 cool 11:09:19 sandwich probably didn't work 11:09:41 lets look at some applied magic 11:09:56 as long as the code makes you smile ;-) 11:10:20 i recognize nothing anymore 11:10:33 no, I went for broke and made it work. 11:12:24 hmmm ... 11:12:28 segfault ... 11:12:52 whoa.. 11:13:02 IT shouldn't - built & compiled fine here. 11:13:14 ah 11:13:21 a.out form april 2 ... 11:13:26 from 11:13:43 oh.. "gcc -o foo fooforth.c" ;-) 11:14:59 pointers are not permitted as case values 11:15:06 is that error or warning ? 11:15:30 I ignored it - any warnings/errors that bug you, I'm sure I can resolve. 11:15:34 doesn't say error or warning but gives no executable 11:16:20 stop using warnings on the voodoo - just use the silly gcc above 11:16:41 no executable with -o name , no a.out without -o 11:17:00 what the heck os/compiler are you suffering? 11:17:01 Speuler: Poppa: what are you guys talking about ? 11:17:19 kirsh - an inner-interpreter for a TIL 11:19:37 Speuler: 11:19:40 gcc -Wall -o foo fooforth.c 11:19:40 fooforth.c: In function `interp': 11:19:40 fooforth.c:117: warning: label `DONE' defined but not used 11:19:40 fooforth.c:104: warning: label `RUN' defined but not used 11:19:40 fooforth.c:77: warning: label `TOKENS' defined but not used 11:20:13 PoppaVic: using the local labels mechanism ? 11:20:35 well, I didn't use the "computed goto's" feature, although I wanted to. 11:21:16 why ? 11:23:10 I had no need for them. It's not like I can call into that 'vector' from outseide. 11:24:09 guess i gonna downgrade my gcc again 11:24:54 The 3 series was always nothing but trouble for me. 11:25:19 i gto 2.95 on the machine too 11:25:26 2.95.3 was pretty good. 11:25:39 probably just the link gcc to gcc-version changed 11:25:53 symlinks are very handy ;-) 11:26:02 indeed. compiles with 2.95 11:26:13 * PoppaVic shutup goddamned lpr that way. 11:26:31 another eg. of the usefullness of pointers (gilbertdeb - rut ?) 11:26:33 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@ip68-8-206-137.sd.sd.cox.net) joined #forth 11:26:34 I added the #include line, for memset 11:27:02 dont use the C library for string and buffer management 11:27:06 krish: hmm? 11:27:06 its lousy 11:27:07 Hi kc5tja :) 11:27:14 looks like nest unnest next all work 11:27:15 bah - spare me 11:27:16