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07:57:22 <Speuler> us are going to ban firewalls ??
07:57:51 <gilbertdeb> since when?
07:59:12 <deluxe> salut#
07:59:36 <gilbertdeb> greetings.
07:59:42 <Speuler> texas and massachussets striving for DMCA modification
07:59:43 <mur> Speuler, amusing
07:59:56 <mur> terve gilbertdeb, Speuler ja deluxe
08:00:01 <Speuler> which would disallow ip masquerading, or NAT
08:00:19 <gilbertdeb> terve mur
08:00:28 <deluxe> Speuler: where do you have *that* from?
08:00:48 <gilbertdeb> has anyone here ever setup bootp/tftpd succesfully?
08:01:12 <Speuler> http://www.heise.de/newsticker/data/mw-29.03.03-000/
08:01:18 <deluxe> thx
08:02:27 <Speuler> think they're going to invade countries which do not ban ip masquerading ?
08:04:02 <Speuler> gilbertdeb: me did
08:04:19 <Speuler> gilbertdeb: but last time i was using dhcp instead of bootp
08:04:29 <Speuler> dhcp is a superset of bootp
08:04:34 <gilbertdeb> yeah my dhcp is kcufed
08:05:07 <Speuler> what's your boot rom protocol ?
08:05:09 <Speuler> pxe ?
08:05:18 <gilbertdeb> its an sgi
08:05:47 <Speuler> wouldn't be surprised if that's using plain bootp/dhcp
08:06:01 <gilbertdeb> the most annoying thing in the world has been trying to setup dhcpd/bootpd on debian
08:06:02 <Speuler> w/o those (intel) pxe extensions
08:06:09 <Speuler> was simple
08:06:26 <gilbertdeb> I already have dhcp on an external router.
08:06:38 <gilbertdeb> someone suggested using a second NIC 
08:06:45 <Speuler> biggest problem i had was getting the boot image to load over pxe
08:07:06 <Speuler> used pxelinux (comes with syslinux) for that
08:07:23 <gilbertdeb> hmmm, In my case all I apparently have to do is to get dhcpd running and the rest will be 'easy'.
08:08:32 <Speuler> probably
08:09:18 <Speuler> nfs set up, boot kernel prepared to mount root directory over nfs ?
08:09:55 <gilbertdeb> no nfs.
08:10:39 <Speuler> so what would it mount as root then ?
08:10:49 <gilbertdeb> a small miniroot .
08:11:53 <gilbertdeb> all it has to do is boot the tiny miniroot so that I can change the password, then I am done.
08:12:05 <Speuler> ramdisk ?
08:12:15 <gilbertdeb> something like that.
08:13:40 <Speuler> and what's the problem ?
08:14:33 <gilbertdeb> I cannot setup dhcpd properly.
08:15:07 <Speuler> shell i send you an example ?
08:15:13 <gilbertdeb> sure.
08:15:18 <Speuler> shall ...
08:15:18 <gilbertdeb> my dcc is working now.
08:15:29 <mur> us are going to ban firewalls - source?
08:15:35 <mur> who said that?
08:15:41 <Speuler> http://www.heise.de/newsticker/data/mw-29.03.03-000/
08:16:01 <Speuler> (german, but may be a link to english version somewhere)
08:18:04 <Speuler> gilbertdeb: dcc send not working ?
08:18:40 <gilbertdeb> says 'connect'.
08:19:22 <Speuler> 0 bytes
08:19:26 <Speuler> i mail it to you
08:19:33 <Speuler> yahoo ?
08:19:37 <gilbertdeb> yeah
08:19:43 <Speuler> done
08:19:49 <gilbertdeb> thanks.
08:19:52 <Speuler> np
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09:18:54 <gilbertdeb> speuler?
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09:51:45 <krish> hi people !
09:52:24 <gilbertdeb> Can't bind to dhcp address: Address already in use
09:52:45 <gilbertdeb> Speuler: thats what I am getting .
09:52:47 <gilbertdeb> hi krish
09:54:58 <krish> anyone here worked with or used network databases ?
09:57:34 <ianni> network databases?
10:00:05 <krish> ianni: databases with network data model instead of relational model
10:07:15 <Speuler> gilbertdeb: yes ?
10:07:30 <gilbertdeb> I was getting some funny errors .
10:07:37 <gilbertdeb> after running the server.
10:07:43 <gilbertdeb> all things should be 'go', right?
10:07:51 <gilbertdeb> I have tested tftp and it seems to be working.
10:07:57 <gilbertdeb> dhcpd has stopped complaining ...
10:10:08 <CaffeineJunkie> gilbertdeb: yes ?
10:10:14 <Speuler> oh
10:10:20 <Speuler> that's lag
10:10:25 <gilbertdeb> how many of you are ther e:)
10:10:33 <Speuler> just me two
10:10:44 <gilbertdeb> hehe.
10:11:02 <gilbertdeb> how do  i test dhcpd to make sure bootpd etc is up and running?
10:11:13 <Speuler> ahem
10:11:22 <Speuler> you use dhcpd instead of bootpd
10:11:34 <gilbertdeb> yes I edited your file appropriately.
10:11:42 <gilbertdeb> and I run dhcpd
10:11:42 <Speuler> try pump or dhclient
10:12:09 <Speuler> on the client, that is
10:12:18 <gilbertdeb> the client only does bootp :(
10:12:25 <Speuler> that's ok
10:12:26 <mur> OIRNQWOVRNQ#)(%VY)("%YM"=")/=!/=()!&T#=)(!/#()!#/)=(!/#=()!#/!!!
10:12:36 <gilbertdeb> its the sgi PROM thing
10:12:52 <Speuler> run tcpdump on the server, watch network traffic
10:12:54 <krish> mur: whatz that ?
10:12:59 <mur> angryness
10:13:04 <mur> i compiled 3 games
10:13:06 <mur> none worked
10:13:08 <mur> :(((
10:13:16 <mur> i have been trying to get them work all day
10:13:16 <mur> :(
10:13:23 <krish> mur: i thought thatz a regex :)
10:13:38 <gilbertdeb> brb.
10:13:39 <mur> one took me 4 hours
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10:13:45 <Speuler> more like a fedupex
10:14:16 <mur> and lots of work and when i got it compiled after installing 3 libraries which i had to search from internet by header file names and make scripts and such it said "segfault"
10:14:33 <mur> 2 others said they dont like my glibc
10:14:34 <mur> :(
10:15:08 <mur> e.g. gcfclient: /lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.3' not found (required by gcfclient)
10:16:05 <krish> mur: libc differences ?
10:16:14 <mur> prolly
10:16:18 <mur> hell i dont know and care anymore
10:16:19 <mur> :(
10:16:25 <mur> i wanted to play something
10:16:31 <mur> but i can not get anything work :(
10:17:07 <krish> is there a monopoly game for linux ?
10:17:34 <krish> 9 ball pool is very addictive ...
10:18:01 <Speuler> monopd , network server
10:18:23 <mur> krish, yes!
10:18:30 * mur has made graphics for gtkatlantic
10:18:31 <krish> Speuler: client ?
10:18:40 <Speuler> don't know yet
10:18:41 <mur> krish, join #monopoly
10:18:58 <mur> although not all graphics are ready so they are not yet used
10:19:26 <Speuler> Atlantik, gtkAtlantik
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10:27:15 <gilbertdeb> .813447 0.0.0.0.bootpc > 255.255.255.255.bootps:  xid:0x8534 secs:10 sname "192.168.25"[|bootp]
10:28:17 <gilbertdeb> speuler what should I look out for?
10:28:36 <mur> krish, join #monopoly
10:28:57 <Speuler> for signs of communication between server and client. that's a request you've logged
10:30:09 <Speuler> check also /var/log/dhcp*.log
10:36:34 <gilbertdeb> apart from the allow bootp entry, do I need to say anything else?
10:37:11 <Speuler> /etc/init.d/dhcp or dhcpd restart
10:38:23 <gilbertdeb> done that.
10:39:36 <Speuler> cat /var/log/dhcp*.log
10:53:28 <gilbertdeb> No applicable record for BOOTP host
10:53:38 <gilbertdeb> BOOTREQUEST from 08:00:69:0b:75:f1 via eth0
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10:59:55 <mur> see you
11:00:01 <mur> =!"#)=)%#"/#&!/(#&(!/#%
11:00:06 <mur> whole day wasted
11:00:07 <mur> :(
11:02:14 <Speuler> gilbertdeb: have you put that mac address into the dhcpd.conf ?
11:02:25 <gilbertdeb> yes I have.
11:02:37 <mur> Robert?
11:03:05 <Robert> mur.
11:03:38 <mur> good night
11:03:41 <mur> sleep tight
11:03:43 <mur> >:)
11:03:46 <Robert> Night mur :)
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12:08:14 <mur> epng!
12:08:25 <mur> did you do some game?
12:08:45 <mur> hm
12:08:48 * mur @ sauna
12:08:51 <mur> away
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13:25:56 * mur back
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14:21:59 <TheBlueWizard> hiya all
14:22:20 <gilbertdeb> ih
14:22:23 <gilbertdeb> swap
14:22:44 <Robert> Hi :)
14:22:50 <mur> terve :)
14:23:30 <TheBlueWizard> hiya gilbertdeb
14:23:38 <TheBlueWizard> hiya Robert
14:23:45 <TheBlueWizard> terve mur :)
14:24:24 <TheBlueWizard> er, bhiya gilbertde rot ;)
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14:58:25 <mur> TheBlueWizard, i had today idea about finnish tutorial
14:58:26 <mur> :)
15:08:10 <TheBlueWizard> really? cool :)
15:12:15 <mur> i thought it coudl be all in finnish
15:12:22 <mur> like multimedia presentation
15:12:24 <mur> very much images
15:12:34 <TheBlueWizard> cool!
15:13:06 <mur> woudl take lot of time and effort
15:13:13 <mur> i shoudl make good plan first
15:14:12 <TheBlueWizard> it would be cool to present it from a "thought" process viewpoint, e.g. in Japanese you generally don't use pronouns very much, instead, relying on a set of conventions and thought patterns, which is definitely different than that of English language.  I can say the same for ASL
15:14:29 <TheBlueWizard> yeah, it'll take a lot of time and work, unfortunately
15:15:38 <mur> i shoudl know well what i am doing
15:15:39 <mur> :)
15:15:45 <mur> and how much
15:15:58 <TheBlueWizard> :)
15:16:01 * mur always forgets or want to avoid planning what to do stage
15:16:11 <mur> but this will not come anything without planning
15:16:56 * mur thought start with teaching terve
15:17:00 <mur> then on and ja
15:17:04 <mur> and some adjectives
15:17:05 <TheBlueWizard> heh...write them in a TODO file...easier to follow at this point (a better approach is to use a software called "idea outliner"...I only have seen the commercial versions [ads, really])
15:17:25 <mur> only thingi need to know
15:17:35 <mur> is that what words and in what order
15:17:37 <mur> and what grammar
15:17:51 <mur> and extras and such
15:18:40 * TheBlueWizard nods
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15:54:26 <gilbertdeb> TheBlueWizard: what is it called?>
15:57:17 <TheBlueWizard> what are you talking about?
15:57:47 <gilbertdeb> the last thing you talked about ;)
15:57:51 <gilbertdeb> the outliner.
15:59:13 <gilbertdeb> TheBlueWizard: there is an outliner called Leo that I tried to use.
15:59:46 <TheBlueWizard> oh...just that -- idea outliner...or just "idea outline"....it is a specialized sort of editor that lets you "brain-dump" your ideas and thoughts and the software will organize it for you, kinda....do a Google on that
15:59:47 <gilbertdeb> leo is supposed to be a literate programming tool.
16:00:05 <gilbertdeb> but it uses the 'outlining' approach.
16:00:28 <gilbertdeb> the leo authors say that a program is more like a dictinonary than a novel...
16:00:36 <gilbertdeb> and  Ithought that was a very forthy thing to say.
16:00:42 <TheBlueWizard> the idea outliner is useful for various things, like writing up a book for example
16:00:52 <gilbertdeb> or writing code :)
16:00:57 <TheBlueWizard> :)
16:01:12 <gilbertdeb> they have two windows, the top pane has the outline, and the bottom pane shows the content.
16:01:19 <gilbertdeb> I just couldn't get the darned thing to work properly.
16:02:10 <gilbertdeb> really nice idea.
16:02:17 <TheBlueWizard> ouch....I wish there is a decent open source / Free Software version of idea outliner (that was when I last checked on it about 1-1/2 years ago :)
16:02:30 <gilbertdeb> TheBlueWizard: which os do you run?
16:04:46 <TheBlueWizard> Linux (and Win95, soon to be obsolete, I hope :)
16:05:00 <gilbertdeb> heheh. I read this on someones sig:
16:05:26 <gilbertdeb> hiroshima 45, chernobly 88(or whenever) windows 95
16:05:44 <gilbertdeb> the great disasters of the world :D
16:06:15 <gilbertdeb> but leo exists for windows, and you might have a better time with it.
16:06:32 <gilbertdeb> really, really cool idea though.
16:06:54 <TheBlueWizard> is leo commercial?
16:07:03 <gilbertdeb> not at all.
16:07:13 <gilbertdeb> leo.sourceforge.net
16:07:21 <gilbertdeb> emacs has an outliner too.
16:07:24 * TheBlueWizard chuckles re: Win95 being a disaster
16:07:30 <gilbertdeb> but I couldn't be bothered with it.
16:07:33 <TheBlueWizard> ah
16:08:23 <gilbertdeb> .org
16:08:25 <gilbertdeb> not .net
16:08:28 <gilbertdeb> my misteak.
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16:09:07 <TheBlueWizard> I don't put much software on my Win95 box...the only reason I have Win95 at all is graphic web access plus email access...plus DOS games.  I need to rebuild my Linux boxes etc...but it takes a lot of time :(
16:09:11 <TheBlueWizard> hiya tcn
16:09:34 <TheBlueWizard> sourceforge.net is the correct one (not .net)
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16:09:49 <TheBlueWizard> oops, I meant to say "not .org"
16:09:56 <TheBlueWizard> hiya CaffeineJunkie
16:10:09 <Speuler>  hey
16:10:17 <Speuler> g'day TBW
16:10:34 * CaffeineJunkie alias Speuler
16:11:48 <TheBlueWizard> hiya Speuler too (I suppose CaffeineJunkie is Speuler's evil twin :)
16:11:58 <gilbertdeb> Speuler: dhcpd/tftpd has been a nightmare.
16:12:11 <Speuler> has been ... sounds good :)
16:12:32 <gilbertdeb> tftpd works internally,
16:12:37 <Speuler> TBW: no, that would be semtex
16:12:40 <gilbertdeb> and dhcpd, I don't know what it does :(
16:14:21 <Speuler> tftpd for transferral of boot image. dhcpd is to inform the client what boot image to request (and ethernet config etc)
16:14:41 * TheBlueWizard smiles re: Speuler's remark
16:14:41 <gilbertdeb> heheh. I know,
16:14:55 <gilbertdeb> but I don't know why I get the errors  I get.
16:15:37 <gilbertdeb> my current instinct is to forget about computers for 3 months...
16:15:47 <gilbertdeb> read some good books, finally chase some women...
16:15:55 <gilbertdeb> and then come back refreshed :D
16:15:58 <TheBlueWizard> good idea!
16:17:06 <Speuler> i hit my nose while working om the computer
16:17:18 <gilbertdeb> they are dangerous machines.
16:18:25 <TheBlueWizard> yup...they can leave you key-faced lol
16:19:33 <Speuler> you're into something off-topic ? i got a forth-related q ...
16:19:49 <gilbertdeb> :)
16:20:00 <Speuler> concerning string functions:
16:20:02 <gilbertdeb> _YOU_ have a forth question?
16:20:34 <Speuler> i ask when process of decision takes long, because i can't make up my mind
16:20:55 <Speuler> good to get some feedback in those cases
16:21:12 <gilbertdeb> brb rebooting into knoppix.
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16:21:32 <Speuler> most anyone will have some string functions with forth
16:21:41 <Speuler> like   : left$  min  ; 
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16:22:05 <Speuler> those tend to operate on ( addr count -- ??? )
16:22:29 <Speuler> now, assume you have a string stack
16:22:45 <Speuler> with a number of string words, operating on that one
16:23:17 <Speuler> what would one do with the "common" string words, as the example left$ ?
16:23:51 <Speuler> leave them working an addr count, that way having two different sets of string words ?
16:24:10 <Speuler> or have those common string words work on the string stack too, with the result of
16:24:43 <Speuler> being required to get a string onto string stack first , before a simple string operation can be processed
16:25:02 <Speuler> and the result would have to be returned to parameter stack
16:25:38 <Speuler> 1st approach would lack consistency
16:25:51 <TheBlueWizard> lemme boil that down: are you talking about two different representations of strings, and what is the Forth way of dealing with these, right?
16:25:52 <Speuler> orthogonality of string handling words
16:26:11 <Speuler> yes, right
16:26:34 <Speuler> for more complex string handling, string stacks are popular
16:26:50 <Speuler> and those can do more than just hold strings
16:27:09 <TheBlueWizard> hmm...since I only have experience within classic Forth (circa '85, say), I can't say what is the modern approach here
16:27:14 <Speuler> rather than  get string from string stack - modify - return to string stack
16:27:29 <Speuler> you could modify strings on string stack
16:27:36 <Speuler> for complex handling, that makes more sense
16:27:52 <Speuler> but for simple string handling, it doesn't
16:28:13 <Speuler> especially not, if the "simple" string handling words work on string stack too
16:28:29 <TheBlueWizard> I agree that uniform treatment would be nice...then again, I think it is a bit similar to the situation with mixed integer and floating number math...what's the best way to deal with that, hmm?  insightful thought, eh?
16:28:53 <Speuler> without thinking, i'd vote for float stack
16:29:34 <Speuler> but that makes them kind of a hassle to deal with them
16:30:20 <TheBlueWizard> mmhmm...
16:30:26 <Speuler> 3.27e0   2. d>f  f+  f>   ......
16:31:01 <Speuler> compare with:
16:31:07 * TheBlueWizard likes to cut through a clutter of thoughts with a mirror labeled "Analogy Thinking" :)
16:31:41 <Speuler> : left$ ( a n1 n2 -- )  min  ;    s" abcdefgh" 3 left$ type
16:32:04 <Speuler> s" abcdefgh" push$ 3 left$  pop$ type
16:32:24 <TheBlueWizard> hmm...how would pop$ work?
16:32:39 <Speuler> putting addr and len on par stack
16:32:50 <Speuler> marking string stack element as dropped
16:32:57 <Speuler> but not destroyed yet
16:33:01 <TheBlueWizard> seeing that it assumes that the length on the stack faithfully represents the size of string
16:33:16 <TheBlueWizard> ah...addr....ok
16:33:22 <Speuler> fits to forth representation of strings
16:34:07 <TheBlueWizard> so, :pop$ drop drop ;   yes?
16:34:16 * Speuler build same kind of string stack support into bashforth as i use it in gforth
16:34:22 <TheBlueWizard> er, : pop$ .... ;
16:35:00 <Speuler> http://forthfreak.net/stringstack
16:35:56 <Speuler> eh .. not found ...
16:37:08 <Speuler> i think i damaged the home page :(
16:37:40 <TheBlueWizard> aww
16:39:48 <Speuler> use   http://logilan.info/~l/stringstack  for now
16:41:11 <Speuler> : pop$  ( -- a n )
16:41:11 <Speuler>    stringstack pop
16:41:11 <Speuler>    dup ?free$
16:41:11 <Speuler>    cell+ skim              \ return string
16:41:11 <Speuler> ;
16:41:37 <Speuler> : skim   cell+ dup cell- @  ;
16:41:53 <Speuler> like count, but on cell rather than byte
16:42:49 <TheBlueWizard> hmm
16:43:22 <Speuler> ah.riddle solved :)
16:43:33 <Speuler> it is     http://www.forthfreak.net/stringstack   
16:44:28 <TheBlueWizard> :)
16:44:40 <TheBlueWizard> well, took a peek...interesting
16:46:45 <Speuler> maybe there is a third way
16:47:08 <TheBlueWizard> third's the charm? lol
16:47:17 <Speuler> if one would change string stack element representation
16:47:27 <Speuler> to become addr count
16:47:37 <Speuler> rather than    stringtoken
16:48:00 <Speuler> i could do      0 pick$  do_string_operation 
16:48:05 <Speuler> on addr count
16:48:18 <Speuler> no matter whether on string stack, or on parameter stack
16:48:33 <Speuler> in principle
16:48:54 <Speuler> (because there's some additional complication)
16:49:08 <Speuler> well
16:49:28 <Speuler> "unary" string words would be easy to allow for both systems
16:49:37 <Speuler> one string in, one out
16:49:39 <TheBlueWizard> mmhmm
16:51:45 <Speuler> naah, there is a problem
16:52:04 <Speuler> at least with this string stack implementation
16:53:05 <Speuler> not too difficult to work around
17:01:35 <TheBlueWizard> I must go....I hope my mixed Socratic/Zen questioning helps :)
17:01:40 <TheBlueWizard> bye all
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17:04:39 <Herkamire> oops, left irssi on since yesterday
17:05:19 <Robert> Hehe.
17:05:41 <Robert> I left it on since...well...I don't remember. :P
17:06:00 <Herkamire> fridge: no. I haven't found anything opensource that boots on apple computers besides UNIXen.
17:06:27 <Herkamire> I was planning on being gone for 2 or 3 days :)
17:17:41 <Speuler> just found something on my machine i didn't know i had - even didn't know that it existed ...
17:17:57 <Speuler> WimpForth  ARM port
17:18:46 <Speuler> somewhat dated ... 1995/96
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17:40:07 <semtex> metacompiled
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17:40:19 <semtex> arm assembler
17:40:30 <semtex> window classes ...
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17:40:42 <semtex> therefore wimp
17:40:53 <gilbertdeb> apricot risc machine?
17:41:07 <semtex> risc os. probably archimedes
17:41:17 <semtex> acorn
17:41:27 <gilbertdeb> ah yes. I knew it was some kinda fruit.
17:41:36 <gilbertdeb> hmmm. is acorn a fruit at all?
17:41:39 <semtex> was acorn risc machine, became advanced risc machine
17:41:58 <gilbertdeb> I heard it was one of the nicest risc designs .
17:42:01 <gilbertdeb> is that true?
17:42:09 <semtex> is now intel risc machine ...
17:42:24 <semtex> very successful design indeed
17:42:53 <gilbertdeb> ever used it?
17:42:59 <semtex> is now in the 5th generation
17:43:21 <semtex> generation 2 was in my psion-5. generation 4 in my ipaq
17:43:32 <gilbertdeb> as recent as the ipaq?
17:43:44 <semtex> there's the pxa255 now. 
17:43:56 <gilbertdeb> how have they changed?
17:44:25 <semtex> which is not in the ipaq yet
17:44:25 <semtex> from 4 mhz to 400 mhz
17:44:35 <gilbertdeb> thats quite a change!
17:44:51 <gilbertdeb> are they still as elegant as you say?
17:44:55 <gilbertdeb> succesful?
17:45:04 <semtex> they are.
17:45:21 <semtex> pocketpc 2002 assumes arm cpu
17:45:58 <semtex> done with sha and mips and the like
17:46:39 <gilbertdeb> sha?
17:46:56 <semtex> SH-7 it was i think. hitachi
17:47:04 <gilbertdeb> done with?
17:47:08 <gilbertdeb> you no longer like those
17:47:09 <semtex> past
17:47:29 <gilbertdeb> whats wrong with the mips?
17:47:40 <gilbertdeb> I bought an r10k just to play around with it :D
17:47:46 <gilbertdeb> re: bootpd/tftpd
17:48:03 <semtex> probably that they ceased to exist as independent cpu developers some years ago
17:48:14 <gilbertdeb> ah okay.
17:48:22 <gilbertdeb> but did you like their design?
17:48:42 <semtex> know too little to be able to judge
17:48:46 <semtex> probably
17:49:03 <gilbertdeb> do you have a forth for the arm?
17:49:08 <gilbertdeb> arm force
17:49:10 <gilbertdeb> arm forht
17:49:12 <gilbertdeb> forth
17:49:17 <semtex> i got two. one i just found
17:49:28 <gilbertdeb> have you written one yet?
17:49:30 <semtex> was sleeping on my hard disk for some years
17:49:36 <semtex> nope
17:49:39 <gilbertdeb> hehe.
17:49:50 <semtex> no good to start with it now
17:49:56 <gilbertdeb> why is that?
17:49:57 <semtex> there's still wince on my ipaq
17:50:04 <semtex> need to put linux on first
17:50:21 <gilbertdeb> ack
17:51:25 * semtex is here
17:51:40 <gilbertdeb> how old is the arm?
17:51:44 <gilbertdeb> 20 years old?
17:51:51 * CaffeineJunkie is here
17:52:23 <semtex> close to. i'd put it on 16-18 years
17:52:33 <gilbertdeb> its still a teenager :P
17:53:26 <gilbertdeb> is there much to be learnt from the arm?
17:54:08 <semtex> arm, arm-7, sa110, xscale (pxa250), pxa255, pxa260  is the path
17:54:25 <semtex> sa110 alias strongarm
17:54:37 <semtex> in many handheld devices
17:55:05 <semtex> the pocketpc 206 mhz cpu family contain those
17:55:37 <semtex> 260 only announced
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18:04:50 <semtex> 255 is in essence a bug fix for the 250
18:04:50 <semtex> but to my understanding, intel messed up the naming somewhat there
18:04:50 <semtex> yes, i'd say even today it is an interesting cpu
18:04:50 <semtex> pretty low-power
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20:32:31 <Herkamire> it's a wonder the human race has survived this long
20:34:36 <semtex> t'is an even greater miracle human race came into existence at all
20:35:54 <semtex> now the world is divided.
20:36:04 <semtex> but not into moslems and christians
20:36:29 <semtex> more like, into united states/u.k, and rest of the world
20:37:31 <semtex> we should start to use a different language than english here
20:40:49 <Herkamire> but amarican's are to lazy to learn another language
20:40:57 <Herkamire> besides, how would you choose one?
20:41:32 <semtex> by political/cultural background. a non-imperialistic language
20:42:04 <Herkamire> how about esperanto?
20:42:10 <semtex> interlingua
20:42:27 <Herkamire> I think english is here to stay
20:42:29 <semtex> fith
20:44:44 <semtex> http://www.langmaker.com/fith.htm
20:46:20 <semtex> A rhetorical device used in Fith is to mention subjects that are then left to linger on the stack before being used.
20:46:45 <semtex> Nouns - A noun is placed on the stack as is and does not affect items already on the stack.
20:46:58 <semtex> Verb - A verb removes a subject and an object (if present) and replaces them with a clause on the stack
20:47:13 <semtex>  A modifier always removes the stack top and replaces it with a phrase
20:47:39 <semtex> A stack conjunction is a word with the primary purpose of directly manipulating the mental stack. The following sections cover the key stack conjunctions and their meanings.
20:47:56 <semtex> _du_ ( n1 - n1 n1 ) makes a copy of the top stack item. [called "dup", for duplicate, in English grammars]
20:48:06 <semtex> _kuu_ ( n1 n2 - n1 n2 n1 n2 ) copies the top two stack items. [called "redup"]
20:48:17 <semtex> _voi_ ( n1 n2 - n1 n2 n1 ) copies the second stack item to the top of the stack. [called "dupover"]
20:48:27 <semtex> _dzhi_ ( n1 - n2 ) copies the n1th stack item to the top of the stack where n1 is a number greater than zero. [called "pick"]
20:48:48 <semtex> IMPORTANT NOTE: Stylistically, it is considered poor form to repeat a recently said word when a stack conjunction could easily be used instead. 
20:49:07 <semtex> _shen_ ( n1 n2 - n2 n1 ) exchanges the stack positions of the top two stack items. [called "swap"]
20:49:15 <semtex> _ronh_ ( n1 n2 n3 - n2 n2 n1 ) moves the third stack item to the top, pushing down the first two stack items. ["rotate"]
20:49:29 <semtex> _e_ (n1 -) removes the top item from the stack. [called "full stop"]
20:49:37 <semtex> _frong_ ( n1 - ) also removes the top item from the stack. [called "drop"]
20:49:44 <semtex> _bom_ ( n1 n2 - n2 ) drops the second item from the stack. [called "nip"]
20:50:18 <semtex> each word in Fith "could end with a sort of CRC code"
20:52:56 <semtex> If you are interested in Fith, you might also be interested in Forth, a computer language that also uses a LIFO grammar
20:55:12 <semtex> http://www.langmaker.com/db/mdl_index_languagetype.htm
21:34:03 <fridge> mi estas ni bonan se esporanto
21:35:42 <semtex> mi ni parolis esperanto
21:38:08 <semtex> i'd day esperanto is not syntheical enough to be accepted by language groups which have not been considered in esperanto
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21:38:49 <semtex> but onetom might like it
21:39:12 <semtex> because of the many hungarian words in esperanto
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23:24:34 <krish> hi
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