00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.03.19 00:52:44 guten8t 02:18:39 Heh. 02:19:11 Never thought about that n8 works even better in German. 02:41:52 --- quit: Speuler (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 03:34:25 --- join: Speuler (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba4f4e.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth 04:08:32 --- join: XeF4 (~xef4@nucleus45.gprs.suomen2g.fi) joined #forth 05:46:46 'morning :) 05:56:36 Right, morning. 06:09:55 --- join: semtex (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba4f4e.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth 06:12:42 Hrm 06:12:53 Got to leave now.. 06:15:43 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@wsip68-15-54-54.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 06:16:17 morning all 06:20:17 mass wakeup occuring 06:20:17 'morning 06:20:36 * Speuler also just woke up 06:21:07 considering that our timezones are about 6 to 8 hours apart :) 06:25:16 you got to sleep in 06:25:20 damn you 06:49:36 --- quit: XeF4 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:55:31 --- join: tathi (~josh@wsip68-15-54-54.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 07:16:59 pre-parsing in colorforth is done by the editory, right ? 07:17:06 editor 07:21:06 --- join: XeF4 (~xef4@primer14.gprs.suomen2g.fi) joined #forth 07:24:39 Speuler: yes 07:25:28 the huffman encoding seems the most involved thing with the editor ? 07:29:59 yeah, probably 07:30:49 but it's not that bad 07:31:56 I had one that started encoding things as numbers, and then re-encoding using huffman if I hit a non-digit character 07:32:02 that was a bit of a nuisance 07:48:12 bashforth supports colors now 07:48:27 (nothing to do with colorforth) 07:52:18 there's no emacs mode for colorforth :( 07:58:04 oh-oh 07:58:19 sounds like the irak war is about to start ? 07:59:10 us and britsh soldiers entering the demilitarized zone 08:08:03 people are stupid 08:36:03 desinformation campain started too 08:37:54 tarik aziz (iraqi vize) is said to have tried to defect, wounded while trying to do so 08:38:53 --- join: I440r (~mark4@1Cust62.tnt1.bloomington.in.da.uu.net) joined #forth 08:42:55 --- quit: TreyB (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 08:46:30 said 10000 tanks have moved into DMZ 08:47:25 bush expected to hold speech to nation soon 08:47:39 he should have done this three months ago 08:47:41 or earlier 08:48:43 why doesn't he bomb texas, they've got oil too 08:49:11 Or Venezuela, they are Communists and have oil. 08:49:26 ok speuler please stop talking about something you know NOTHING of 08:49:32 this has FUCK ALL to do with oil 08:49:51 its the fucking french and germans who have their heads up sadams ass 08:51:17 Yeah. We all love Saddam. To hell with us. 08:51:56 it is all about oil. not because of un resolutions, see isreal. not because of weapon of mass destruction, see pakistan, india, china etc 08:52:01 israekl 08:52:07 israel 08:52:31 pakistan isnt a threat to us 08:52:39 Speuler: Well, Iraq is a great threat against the US. They'll invade the US if the US don't strike first. 08:52:50 what about them. 08:53:03 --- join: MrReach (~mrreach@209.181.43.190) joined #forth 08:53:21 hihi! 08:53:27 Hi MrReach :) 08:53:52 Do you feel threatend by the Iraqi regime, too? ;) 08:54:08 me? hell no ... damn desert rats 08:54:38 hi mrreach! 08:54:49 i found out yesterday that linus t has written a forth compiler in the past hehe 08:55:00 like.... WAY in the past :/ 08:55:05 Yay, 08:55:10 for his classes? 08:55:21 how does he support himself now? 08:55:28 This new hole in Linux might be because of the lack of Forth, who knows? ;) 08:55:46 hole? 08:56:02 Local root access in 2.2 and 2.4 kernels. 08:56:36 not cool, possible via net connection? 08:56:41 or tty only? 08:56:43 No. 08:56:43 fixed with 2.4.20 08:56:49 ok 08:56:57 Speuler: Er, really? 08:57:00 up to 2.4.19, that's the bug you mean robert ? 08:57:15 http://www.spinics.net/lists/kernel/msg162986.html 08:57:34 [...] A patch for Linux 2.4.20/Linux 2.4.21pre is attached. [...] 08:58:14 what is this bug? 08:58:18 march 17, no that must be another one 08:58:30 you can have a remote root access ? 08:58:33 No. 08:58:35 Only local. 08:59:17 so you ssh in you can su - ? 09:00:47 Right.. 09:01:28 thats not bad. 09:01:39 i do that all the time. i WANT to be able to do that 09:01:48 some people are just too stupid to live 09:01:57 Well, you don't want someone else to do it. 09:02:20 they cant 09:02:44 Well, if you have this bug, they can gain root access. :) 09:02:58 Assuming they have accounts, of course. 09:03:04 if they're at the keyboard 09:04:57 why are people sending me chainletters? 09:05:07 it's *SO* stupid 09:05:09 They don't like you. 09:05:27 lol 09:05:35 its called SPAM lol 09:05:52 my aunt, of all people, sent me one that said M$ was paying $495 to each person who passed the message on in the first 4 months 09:06:05 heh 09:06:30 lol 09:06:42 some people will do anything for a buck :P 09:07:06 now I get a yahoo IM saying it's from the staff and asking me to pass it on to at least 20 people or I'd get my acct closed (they're trying to figure out which accounts are active) 09:07:33 M$ isn't paying anybody shit, and she's smart enough to know that 09:07:59 lol 09:08:06 maybe she thunked you would like the joke :) 09:08:15 ahem 09:08:25 well, call me humor impaired, then 09:08:53 :/ 09:09:11 im pollitically correct impaired 09:09:29 oh? who'd you piss off? 09:10:06 nobody :) 09:10:17 yet! 09:10:26 the day is early (ish) 09:12:33 c'yall later! 09:12:36 --- part: MrReach left #forth 09:12:37 Bye 09:12:38 Hrm. 09:32:32 what if iraq calls upon the u.n. for assistance in case of u.s attack ? 09:34:52 the french and germans are too cowardly to do the right thing 09:35:14 u.s ignores international laws 09:35:31 it is an attack without legal base 09:35:58 B 09:36:07 U 09:36:07 L 09:36:07 L 09:36:08 S 09:36:10 H 09:36:12 I 09:36:15 T 09:36:46 i say "international" not "self-declared us rights" 09:38:35 Speuler: Haha, that would be nice. 09:38:51 what's the legal base ? is there any u.n resolution requiring the us to take the lead in the march on irqa ? 09:39:03 --- join: gilbertdeb (~gilbert@fl-nked-ubr2-c3a-29.dad.adelphia.net) joined #forth 09:39:14 Hi gilbertdeb. 09:39:15 what legal base then ? 09:39:18 . 09:39:36 I just installed -- or almost installed gforth .6 09:39:47 but the make install keeps failing. 09:41:02 --- join: TreyB (~trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth 09:43:29 anyone else installed it? 09:44:17 i've installed from a tgz to local 09:46:29 did it fail at any point? 09:46:41 bashforth v0.47 is online 09:46:50 nope, didn't 09:46:58 hmmm. 09:47:49 --- nick: Speuler -> PhoodPhrenzy 10:00:08 --- quit: I440r ("Reality Strikes Again") 10:29:29 --- join: krish (KRISHNAKUM@61.1.220.186) joined #forth 10:30:14 Hi ! 10:32:41 hi krishna 10:33:36 Hi 10:35:51 Robert: are you interested in an INDY workstation :D ? 10:36:08 very very reasonably priced too. 10:43:18 --- join: serg (~serg@h138n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #forth 10:43:41 --- quit: serg (Client Quit) 10:47:53 INDY ? you mean the SGI one ? 10:49:11 the one and only. 10:49:32 I bid on one on ebay but I don't really want it. 10:49:52 unfortunately I am winning it currently. 10:52:16 I might install netbsd on it though... it seems it is supported. 10:53:06 Hehe. 10:53:16 Naaah. How much are you paying? 10:53:28 --- quit: XeF4 (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:53:55 10.49 currently. 10:54:01 shipping is 26.50 10:54:09 Haha 10:54:32 LOL 10:54:37 Where is it and where are you loctaed? 10:55:05 it is someplace else and I am in miami. 10:55:13 no I can't go pick it up. 10:55:30 it would cost me app 350 bucks to go pick it up in person. 10:55:45 gilbertdeb: are you serious ? 10:55:55 http://noldo.pair.com/eflorea2/aw2k/LotImg1403.jpg 10:56:50 well, to just get up and fly to hobby land would cost me that much. 10:57:00 it would be terribly impractical. 10:57:15 And I would never get there before the end of the month on my bicycle :D 10:57:28 by bus, its gonna cost app 90 dollars. 10:57:35 it is cheaper to have it shipped. 10:57:43 now anyone wanna buy a wonderful INDY from me? 10:59:44 lesson learned: next time I am gonna just watch the item and bid on it at the absolute last minute iff I am still interested after N days of watching. 11:01:05 i'm told that most winners bid only at the last minute. 11:01:21 yeah. it happened to be my first ever bid on ebay. 11:01:35 I was eager to own an sgi to play with you see? 11:01:54 I hope the 'other' guy decides to outbid me flat out. 11:24:45 ebay items usually change hands quite a few times in the last hour 11:27:10 9 minutes left and the original bidder is letting me win. 11:27:23 this is not very encouraging. 11:28:19 say Herkamire, do you want a MIPS based computer? 11:28:22 it is RISC you know? 11:38:42 Losing is such bliss! 11:38:46 someone bought it!!! 11:58:57 --- join: Speuler (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba4f4e.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth 11:59:36 ave Speuler 11:59:49 hi 12:00:29 --- quit: PhoodPhrenzy (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:03:57 gilbertdeb: lost the bid ? 12:04:40 yes!! 12:05:04 it is such a relief. the items were untested and were being sold 'as is'. 12:05:13 I could have been purchasing a pair of lemons. 12:07:23 hmmm 12:08:16 I am awaiting shipment of an inigo2 so I already own an sgi... in a manner of speaking. 12:09:51 that too from ebay > 12:09:56 ? 12:11:56 yes 12:12:07 lots of exotic hardware to pickup from there. 12:13:06 xml parser available for forth ? 12:13:30 so that you can have fun with xml-rpc using forth 12:13:31 I wouldn't know. 12:13:37 what kind of fun? 12:14:34 building web based client server apps. 12:18:30 you don't say? 12:18:58 isn't that the domain of cgi{perl/python/ruby},php? 12:21:46 so far - yes. 12:22:04 ruby and python are too sloooow. 12:22:05 heh :) 12:22:16 and perl is faster? 12:22:53 have'nt used perl so cant comment 12:23:05 I declare perl just as slow :D 12:23:09 python >= perl. 12:23:16 btw, pike is very fast 12:23:25 pike is a fugly language. 12:23:45 but its fast ... 12:23:52 so is asm :) 12:24:08 I was reading an article yesterday that said xml was too hard for programmers. 12:24:09 come on ... 12:24:24 does that apply to xml-rpc ? 12:24:46 no xml-rpc is very simple. 12:25:09 use HTTP as transport and xml for encoding the payload 12:25:38 I dunno. 12:25:45 some languages creep me out. 12:25:54 s/encoding the payload/marshalling 12:25:57 eg. c++,colorforth,xml ... 12:26:04 xml is not a language 12:26:17 what is xml sir krish? 12:26:23 what is the 'l'? 12:26:34 xml is a data format 12:26:42 and the 'l' is a what? 12:26:57 the l does not stand alone ! - the 'm' is even more significant 12:27:13 hmmm so what does xml abbreviate? 12:27:29 extensible markup language 12:27:36 the key here is markup 12:27:39 I rest my case :) 12:28:34 http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2003/03/16/XML-Prog 12:28:43 xml is not a programming language 12:29:34 gilbertdeb: checkout http://www.xmlrpc.com 12:30:11 gilbertdeb: is used like blue bg white fg for example 12:31:51 gilbertdeb: eg, encodes (0,0) 12:32:09 this stuff looks interesting. 12:32:29 simple stuff with plenty of hype 12:33:13 I tend to go for underhyped things. 12:33:16 eg forth. 12:33:21 colorforth is overhyped :D 12:34:04 xml-rpc makes distributed applications simple 12:34:26 now isn't that what erlang and rebol are supposed to do as well? 12:34:56 or am I confusing concepts? 12:35:00 Again. 12:35:06 well, its language independent 12:35:30 ah okay. 12:36:04 the client connects to a server, performs a method call encoded as xml and receives the result in xml 12:36:16 simple as that 12:36:31 so you can have any the server/client written in any language 12:37:09 all you need is an xml parser and http server 12:37:17 so even forth can be used. 12:37:38 have you used l.p methods much? 12:37:40 say from an embedded application to a data collection server 12:37:52 i'm starting with l.p 12:38:15 wrote an eiffel program in l.p style 12:38:44 what did you think of the result? 12:39:30 looks good. 12:39:49 but not everyone will be convinced 12:40:20 l.p is more useful for explaining ur programs 12:41:15 so someone writing a class library will prefer to use those inline comment processors to generate the documentation 12:42:50 if ur starting fresh, using l.p can be rewarding 12:44:10 starting fresh from what? 12:44:18 are the online resources good enough? 12:44:32 or do I need to get the book? 12:45:34 online resources good enough 12:46:03 get the CD from literateprogramming.com and start using the tools 12:46:11 is it windows based? 12:46:33 both windows and unix 12:47:11 l.p tools are typically called weave and tangle 12:47:21 weave generated documentation in a book like form 12:47:32 tangle generates source files for compilation 12:48:32 see the peter knaggs paper 12:48:41 for an example 12:49:58 ok guys its 2:30 am - time to get some sleep 12:50:03 bye 12:50:05 wait 12:50:13 one question before 2.31 12:50:14 :) 12:50:25 go on ... 12:50:28 if you were gonna teach someone a language ... 12:50:32 would you start using l.p ? 12:50:37 a newbie. 12:50:38 defnly. 12:50:44 hmmmm. 12:51:00 thanks. 12:51:06 bye 12:51:09 --- quit: krish ("Client Exiting") 13:14:57 --- quit: Herkamire (Remote closed the connection) 13:15:00 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@wsip68-15-54-54.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 13:22:16 heh :) 13:22:30 off-topic discussion??? not here 13:22:42 which OT? 13:25:36 lilo(levin@lilo.staff.freenode)- [Global Notice] Hi all. There seems to be quite a bit of discussion 13:25:39 about the war. 13:28:06 heheh. 14:07:17 --- join: I440r (~mark4@1Cust238.tnt3.bloomington.in.da.uu.net) joined #forth 14:07:47 --- mode: ChanServ set +o I440r 14:12:02 --- quit: Klaw (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:17:11 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 14:17:39 --- quit: Herkamire ("going home") 14:58:02 --- quit: I440r ("Reality Strikes Again") 15:14:45 --- quit: semtex (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:44:11 --- join: ramnull (~nicad@12-241-145-39.client.attbi.com) joined #forth 15:44:21 What's up? 15:44:38 your text now. 15:44:43 :) 15:44:50 You play with XcolorForth at all? 15:44:58 not at all. 15:45:07 I am scared of the colorforth language. 15:45:15 it reminds me of a dream I had about going mad ... 15:45:52 It's a curious anomaly. Heh. 15:46:41 Thinking about seeing if I can get either IsForth or GForth to work in the Linux Framebuffer. 15:47:05 Or rather, with the Framebuffer 15:47:44 Hmmm...Theres an extreme idea. GLForth. 15:47:53 what would it do? 15:48:00 graphix with forth? 15:48:22 For starters. 15:50:08 That make a clever interface. 3D visualization, on the fly, of ones code. Heh. 15:50:35 Could make a slick Shell out of it too. 15:59:01 --- quit: ramnull ("This isn't Happy Hour!") 16:19:38 --- join: semtex (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba4f4e.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth 16:24:16 --- quit: skylan ("O_O") 16:33:29 --- join: skylan (sjh@207.164.213.34) joined #forth 16:51:08 ramnull: is there an url for XcolorForth? 16:51:39 he is gone. 16:51:47 it might be in c.l.f 17:04:40 bashforth v0.47a released 17:07:21 whats new? 17:08:14 black yellow red blue ... fg bg bold underscore reverse colors attr@ attr! 17:08:55 step towards user interface builder :) 17:09:07 menu shit 17:09:37 attr@/! fetch and restore all attributes 17:09:42 oh 17:09:48 forgot "normal" 17:10:42 red bg green fg bold 17:11:25 attr@ constant nice ..... nice attr! 17:13:03 now bashforth is BIG! 17:13:07 :P 17:13:17 here . 1187 17:13:55 but virtually unlimited stack space 17:14:15 and memory 17:15:17 200000000 allot : star char * emit ; here . 200001192 17:17:59 reverse twice restores original colors 17:27:23 --- quit: semtex (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 17:35:55 --- quit: Speuler (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 17:36:43 --- join: Speuler (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba4a91.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth 17:39:11 what was the last thing i said ? 17:40:38 reverse twice restores original colors 17:40:57 i.e. attr! 1 . reverse 2 . reverse 1 . work as you might expect 17:41:04 thanks 17:43:41 was/is there an xcolorforth? 17:43:57 I missed the convo 17:44:17 yeah. 17:44:27 c.l.f has the link in its womb someplace. 17:49:24 i got it on www.forthfreak.net/interpreters 18:13:54 --- quit: gilbertdeb (""Monk has left the building"") 19:17:42 iraq war has started 19:54:10 --- join: DarkAngel (~hmmm@129-7-141-138.dhcp.uh.edu) joined #forth 20:04:14 --- join: krish (KRISHNAKUM@61.1.220.167) joined #forth 20:04:23 hi! 20:04:42 hai 20:05:37 'morning 20:21:09 bad morning for me ! 20:21:37 krish: Where you at? 20:21:50 Salem,India 20:21:51 what happened to your morning ? 20:22:05 lost 3 consecutive games @ ICC 20:22:17 brings down your rating 20:22:23 to i guess 2145 20:22:39 2140 20:22:44 how did you know ? 20:22:50 you lost against me :) 20:22:55 ICC? 20:23:02 just kidding 20:24:27 actually played a game too this morning 20:25:15 What's ICC? 20:25:24 internet chess club 20:26:06 Oh right 20:26:06 hmmm... 20:26:06 * DarkAngel is not that good at chess 20:26:40 * Speuler is "not bad" in the sense of "being average" 20:27:31 guess i'm not above 1400 20:29:29 * krish lost another game ! 20:29:54 comes from chatting while playing 20:30:08 have a coffee first :) 20:30:12 or a lassi 20:35:37 its just that kinda day when you lose even from positions that you normally win sleeping 20:37:06 anybody did sockets from forth ? 20:37:21 i440r did 20:37:45 i think forth can be adapted for programming web apps. 20:38:21 without db connectivity ! 20:40:33 very likely 20:40:48 there's hardly anything forth can't 20:41:31 with gforth (or bigforth?) there comes a small demo webserver. 20:44:11 you may be able to pull some ideas to connect to sockets from that source 20:44:11 guys checkout http://www.prevayler.org 20:44:28 --- join: gilbertdeb (~gilbert@fl-nked-ubr2-c3a-29.dad.adelphia.net) joined #forth 20:44:31 under unix, you dont even need C callability ! 20:44:31 oh? 20:44:31 just call the kernel using int 0x80 20:44:31 krish: ever used leo? 20:44:31 ah in asm. 20:44:31 s/unix/linux 20:44:31 whatz that ? 20:44:31 uno secondo. 20:44:36 leo or lua ? 20:44:38 http://personalpages.tds.net/~edream/front.html 20:44:41 not lua 20:44:44 lua is fugly. 20:45:04 it is a literate programming tool. 20:45:20 however, they say some really forthy thing about how literate programming is supposed to be. 20:45:28 albet, its relatively superficial but ... 20:45:35 yes. heard about it (think, even have it on my disk) 20:45:39 I use nuweb 20:46:20 N.Walsh has recently released literate XML for writing l.p using docbook 20:46:30 it is supposedly compatible with nuweb and it is written entirely in python 20:46:36 using leo of course. 20:47:23 gilbertdeb: started using l.p ? 20:47:32 I am starting. 20:47:39 as soon as I figure the damned leo thing out. 20:48:17 gilbertdeb: know latex ? 20:48:28 I haven't used it but I have the manual somewhere. 20:48:33 spam warning. 20:48:40 4. Leo shows that traditional literate programming encourages a too creative approach to programming. A dictionary is a better model for programs than a novel. Literate outlines provide a more regular organization, while providing space for the most lengthy discussions when those discussions are required. 20:48:55 gilbertdeb: then nuweb should be easier 20:49:12 see the thing it says about dictionary? 20:50:35 i'm a big fan of D.Knuth 20:51:44 and of GNU/X Emacs 20:51:53 I will become a big fan once i am done plowing through Concrete Mathematics. 20:52:48 can I use those tools w/leo ? 20:53:13 which tools? 20:53:23