00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.03.14 00:08:24 --- quit: Fractal (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 00:33:17 Hrm. 00:33:33 Does anyone know how to sign-extend a signed byte to a dword in IsFort? 00:33:35 isforth* 00:59:20 avoid doubles ;) 01:00:45 ? 01:00:56 dword = 32-bit word, that is 01:01:05 I.e. one cell. 01:01:49 ah, silly me 01:02:02 * onetom has just waken up 01:03:43 :) 01:03:45 Morning 01:03:58 \ This is ugly, got to find a better way :P 01:03:58 : sign-ext dup 7 u>> 1 and 1- not $ffffff00 and or ; 01:04:01 Heeelp! :) 01:04:31 :))) 01:06:17 : b>s dup 128 and if $ffffff00 or then ; 01:09:30 Bleh, conditionals :P 01:09:40 But thanks anyway 01:17:25 i knew that will b a problem :) 01:20:20 --- join: ramnull (~nicad@12-241-145-39.client.attbi.com) joined #forth 01:20:30 What's up? 01:24:20 Hey. 01:24:30 Hows it going? 01:28:30 Not too bad, but I have to leave for school in a few minutes. 01:30:18 Ah. I just got home from work. You in the UK? 01:31:22 Well, dont want to make you late. I drop in later. 01:32:03 Have fun at school...your gonna miss it when you get to the private sector. 01:32:20 * ramnull grins 01:34:19 --- quit: ramnull ("ircII EPIC4-1.1.7 -- Are we there yet?") 01:36:34 Heh. 01:37:07 * Robert is a swede, damn it! 02:22:28 --- join: Fractal (mngl@2001:618:4:15f6:0:dea:fb1:d00d) joined #forth 03:12:27 You like the DEA, I see. 04:03:18 --- join: bubba1034 (olczyk@d173.focal10.interaccess.com) joined #forth 04:03:30 ANyone here? 04:07:48 --- quit: Fractal (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:30:35 --- join: Speuler (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba4466.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth 04:41:13 Anyone here? 04:42:47 depends 04:44:04 I am looking ( for about a year and a half now ) for a programming language to act as a "scripting language". 04:44:30 I was wondering if there might be a Forth implementation(s) that would serve me well. 04:45:04 you might check out atlast 04:45:22 ATLAST is an attempt to make software component technology and open 04:45:23 architecture applications commonplace in the mainstream software 04:45:23 market. It is both a software component which can be readily 04:45:23 integrated into existing applications, providing them a ready-made 04:45:23 macro language and facilities for user extension and customisation 04:45:23 and, at the same time, it is a foundation upon which new applications 04:45:28 can be built in an open, component-oriented manner. 04:46:02 ATLAST was developed at Autodesk, Inc. 04:46:11 public 04:46:11 domain 04:46:23 ATLAST is based upon the FORTH-83 language 04:48:45 ATLAST= Autodesk Threaded Language Application System Toolkit 04:50:35 Hmmm. The way you describe it , it must have a good FFI. 04:53:38 copied that from the README. is about 85 k of c source, targetted to be script-lang add-on. that's what you mean by saying "scripting language" ? 06:36:17 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 06:37:08 Hi serg 06:37:28 hi 06:37:39 * Serg_Penguin unplugs CRT 4 few mins 06:41:10 bubba1034: see also FICL at http://ficl.sf.net 06:47:11 --- quit: bubba1034 (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 06:54:14 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@wsip68-15-54-54.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 06:55:33 Hi Herkamire. 07:03:16 --- join: gilbertdeb (~gilbert@fl-nked-ubr2-c3a-29.dad.adelphia.net) joined #forth 07:03:28 . 07:04:11 0 ok 07:04:20 lol 07:04:26 how are you? 07:04:41 Fine, and you know what? I'm coding! 07:04:48 cpp? 07:04:54 Forth. 07:05:10 C++ is evil. 07:05:13 what are you coding? 07:05:18 Took me a minute to compile a hello world program. 07:05:25 Using gcc and no optimization. 07:05:30 That simulator 07:05:44 hmmm forth 1+ could replace cpp ;) 07:06:10 which that simulator? 07:06:16 for the chip thing? 07:06:20 Yeaj 07:06:24 s/j/h/ 07:09:56 its a nice day, I think I am going to lie in the sun :D 07:10:00 have fun coding. 07:10:02 --- part: gilbertdeb left #forth 07:12:25 Bah. 07:12:55 hi Robert :) 07:13:14 damnit. it's cold and icy and probably warming up to be slushy here 07:13:26 I wanna go lay in the sun! 07:13:28 It's like 10C here. 07:13:39 And, well.. far from dry. 07:14:20 * Herkamire wonders where gilbert lives, and wonders if he could move in with him ;) 07:16:11 :) 07:16:26 * Robert celebrates the international pi day by coding some more. 07:29:43 --- join: wossname (wossname@HSE-QuebecCity-ppp82195.qc.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 07:31:48 Robert: :) url about pi day? 07:32:18 wossname: Hey :) 07:32:31 onetom: No idea... google for it. 07:32:40 onetom: I just remembered it's the 14th of March, so... 07:32:51 good morning 07:33:06 Good morning, good morning! 07:33:24 how's the sim coming? 07:33:24 * Robert is listening to Sgt. Peppers :) 07:33:32 Fine, fine, coding on it right now. 07:33:49 :l 07:34:07 well.. number of lines..? :) 07:34:18 230 07:34:37 But remember Forth lines contain a lot of code ;) 07:34:39 ah.. all lovely forth 07:35:01 Yes! 07:35:14 pi url? http://www.hepl.phys.nagoya-u.ac.jp/~mitsuru/pi-e.html 07:35:15 <3 forth 07:35:21 4 billion digits there 07:35:24 Hehe. 07:35:47 * wossname goes looking for patterns in pi, and suffers a stroke 07:36:06 there's a lot of pi trivia 07:36:17 like, the amazing 42 07:36:37 Hey, we had a math contest over here. 07:36:45 think the combination 424242 can be found at position 424242 07:36:57 One of the questions was: "The answer of god, the universe and everything". (or whatever..) 07:37:04 :) 07:38:52 Trying to come up with a significant number to search for, I thought of 42 (the answer to life, the universe, and everything in Hitchhikers's Guide to the Galaxy.) 42 would be way to common of course, so I went for 424242. Came back that this shows up at position 242423. Add one (for the decimal point, I lamely rationalize here) and you get 242424, the reverse of the original input. Now that's meaningful... or something. 07:38:53 [Editors Note] Amusingly enough, the entire string which is returned is 242424242, and if you disregard either of the ending twos, you find that it's the same position at which you find 42424242. Not to mention the palindromic possibilities inherent in a reversible meaning of life string. --Dave 07:40:51 --- join: I440r (~mark4@1Cust245.tnt3.bloomington.in.da.uu.net) joined #forth 07:40:55 :) 07:40:56 Hey I440r 07:41:02 pi is wonderful, Speuler :P 07:41:21 hi 07:41:26 anyone here have an email server i can use ? 07:41:30 I440r: Is there any easy way to do byte->32-bit word sign extention in isforth? 07:41:37 so i can post to clf 07:41:40 I'm using an ugly hack right now... 07:42:00 hrm wait ill check something - hang on! 07:42:34 The string 1673429897 did not occur in the first 100000000 digits of pi after position 0 07:43:07 1673429897 in base 36 is robert 07:43:10 robert do this 07:43:14 24 << 24 >> 07:43:23 that will do the operation :) 07:43:56 Cool :) 07:44:34 Speuler: :) 07:44:39 do you understand what that did ? robert ? 07:44:57 The string 49115967017594 did not occur in the first 100000000 digits of pi after position 0. 07:46:00 I440r: Nah, but it works ;D 07:46:10 Hmm. 07:46:12 Or maybe I did. 07:46:23 >> uses CF to fill, no? 07:46:46 You should write a b>s word using movsx... 07:47:15 << is a shift left by n 07:47:23 n1 distance << 07:47:28 shifts n1 left distance bits 07:47:37 Last one copied to CF 07:47:41 >> is a shift right - and its signed 07:47:46 you can also do u>> 07:47:48 And then >> shifts CF in. 07:47:50 for unsigned. 07:47:54 Yeah, I'm using those unsigned versions. 07:47:57 MUCH better than lshift and rshift 07:48:01 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07:48:08 lshift/rshift? What's that? 07:48:19 might as well call it "shift_n1_right_n2_bits_retaining_sign" 07:48:33 lshift is the GAY ans name 07:48:38 << and >> are much better 07:48:38 Oh, heh. 07:48:41 :P 07:48:47 ans is overly verbose 07:49:12 Right, forth that doesn't look cryptic isn't forth! 07:49:25 The string 36142665 was found at position 1266641 counting from the first digit after the decimal point. 07:50:18 ah. 07:50:36 linux is in the first 100 miliion digits. windows isn't 07:50:43 :) 07:50:47 How strange ;) 07:51:19 at pi creation time, windows didn't seem important enough 07:52:00 > ln(36^7)/ln(10) 07:52:01 ~10.89411750537101085511 07:52:01 > ln(36^5)/ln(10) 07:52:01 ~7.78151250383643632507 07:52:02 :P 07:52:05 Right 07:52:38 what language is that? 07:53:44 The calculations? I just used calc 07:57:25 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 07:57:30 hi I440r 08:01:48 serg! hi 08:01:57 i didnt ever get any emails off you the other day 08:02:23 ok I get it. you're saying that windows is 10 digits and linux is 8 08:02:50 -> I440r i may resend last 08:03:08 ok :) 08:03:25 yeserday i was working from home, modem held just a few minutes 08:03:34 ok :) 08:03:43 bombs away :) 08:05:22 Herkamire: More like 11 for Windows... but yeah. 08:05:51 I typed 10 again! doh! I went back and deleted it, in an attempt to make it 11 08:05:57 :D 08:06:07 Get some rest 08:06:09 maybe I should go home and back to bed 08:06:34 Er.. how should I make an infinite loop in isforth? 08:07:22 begin false until ? 08:07:39 Not involving a conditional... 08:07:52 : foo rdrop recurse ; 08:07:57 Hrm. 08:07:59 Not really. 08:08:15 begin ... repeat ? 08:08:20 again 08:08:24 --- quit: I440r (Excess Flood) 08:08:26 Right, thanks 08:08:41 --- join: I440r (~mark4@1Cust245.tnt3.bloomington.in.da.uu.net) joined #forth 08:19:00 it would be a fun programming chalange to convert the firct 10M digits of pi to base 2 or base 36 08:23:34 I'm curious how quickly I could get it done 08:36:41 --- join: ASau (~asau@158.250.48.197) joined #forth 08:36:53 Good evening! 08:37:17 Wah! Serg! 08:37:36 How long I have not seen you here! 08:38:00 (How long have I not been here?) 08:38:11 hi :) 08:38:31 Hi I440r! 08:39:36 BTW, I can share experience of Forth OS building. 08:39:49 Anyone interested? 08:40:37 Hi ASau :) 08:40:46 asau what do you mean ? 08:40:51 Privet, Robert! 08:40:56 Privet :) 08:41:07 Kak ty? 08:41:16 I mean strapping from a generic Forth comipler. 08:41:30 your writing one ? 08:41:46 No, written before me. 08:42:52 Robert: my custom answer on "Kak ty?" question is "Zhizn' bjot kljuchom! V osnovnom -- po golove..." 08:43:24 ASau: Okay, and what does that mean? 08:45:15 That means: "My life is a kind of spring (related: "well")." Also "kluech" means a usual instrument, so "Life beats me/my head". 08:45:17 :) 08:45:48 Well, interested in OS boot-strapping? 08:48:20 Heh 08:48:34 Yeah.. 08:48:38 BTW, to compare "My life is not a fountain" is another variant (close by means of expression, water analogy). 08:49:02 I was plannign to write a Forth system... maybe I will some day :) 08:49:42 I used 16 bit, 16K for vocabulary, memory and stacks Forth compiler. 08:49:50 cool 08:50:10 Thus, I had 48K for blocks in RAM. 08:50:41 I used approx. 30 blocks for additional source. 08:53:00 Among these: 1 block for ramdisk driver (my kernel was configured not to use anything except BIOS), 2 misc. utilities (BASE work-arounds etc.) blocks, 2 blocks for messages ("empty stack" etc), 8 blocks for editor. 08:53:53 And 2 magic blocks to save extended "kernel" (Forth compiler) to disk (I used DOS). 08:54:25 sounds cool - cept i never liked block sources :/ 08:54:29 If I want to use BIOS for that, this will be approx. 3-4 blocks. 08:54:41 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:55:07 Hey! Serg! Where are you going??? :( 08:55:12 Down 08:56:35 To load a kernel from HD/FD is not a problem. I've solved it before. 08:56:59 Nothing additional is needed to combine these two solutions. 08:57:48 Conclusions. 08:58:04 I440r, shouldn't this work? : op-call iptr rpush goto op-jump 08:58:25 Seems like it expects some ; there 08:58:37 ye ? 08:58:52 wtf is rpush 08:58:52 How can I make a jump to 'op-jump' ? 08:58:56 For development under DOS, I used about 10MB at all, for all my Forth related development with all forks and branches. 08:58:57 One of my words 08:59:16 :) 08:59:27 Anout 2MB of sources written (most are not related to OS) 09:00:19 Estimated size for OS is about 200 KB (with tools) and 100 KB (sources, compiler included). 09:00:36 Compiler is written in asm. 09:00:37 Good size. 09:01:00 Compiler sources: 56KB (approx.) 09:01:40 Wah, really: 30 blocks is 30 KB :))) 09:03:55 --- join: mur (jukka@baana-62-165-188-58.phnet.fi) joined #forth 09:04:55 Hi mur 09:05:03 Good evening! 09:05:07 terve Robert! 09:05:16 hyvää iltaa ASau 09:05:17 Hyvää...something. :) 09:05:20 iltaa! 09:05:29 god kväll 09:05:32 :) 09:05:41 Spasiba. 09:06:09 danke für vat? 09:06:22 * mur ist nein deutch guru 09:06:33 The greeting, and teaching me "iltaa". :) 09:06:58 ole hyvä 09:07:11 ? 09:07:26 var så vänlig 09:07:39 "be good" , no problem , be my guest 09:08:53 I have a nice proposition: not to use any characters that are from 128-255 range. 09:09:03 I have Cyrillic there. 09:11:25 ä is d? 09:11:27 For example: I can uderstand "oe"/"ue" diphtongs, but not Cyrillic "f" and "h" instead of wovels. 09:11:39 no "f" 09:11:39 ö is d? 09:12:07 no, "divide-sign", ":"+backspace+"-" 09:12:17 :) 09:12:32 it is latin-x cyrillic? 09:12:38 ansi extended? 09:13:05 ? 09:13:38 is the character set ansi set with cyrillic added in the end? 09:14:10 Alternative GOST coding. Aka CP866. 09:14:19 hmm 09:14:36 yet another cyrillic encoding 09:14:38 I live not in Europe. 09:14:48 yes 09:14:55 We have many of encodings. 09:15:38 Only for Russian: cp866, koi-8, koi-8r, koi-7, cp1251, iso-8859-5 09:15:56 It's a hell, isn't it? 09:16:03 what is differences in koi-8's? 09:16:06 are 09:16:11 Yes, all russians burn in hell! 09:16:34 * mur disagrees. all russians could learn finnish! 09:16:34 ;) 09:17:15 Main reason is foregn companies and communities invent their own standards. 09:17:46 They think they are cleverer than we're in _our_ characters encoding. 09:18:37 We're always superior. 09:18:38 Main standards are that "koi-" ones. 09:18:41 *ignorant* 09:19:26 Robert, you are risking. 09:19:43 * mur thinks that russian is expressful lanaguge dispite it's "syntax errors" 09:19:54 very expressfull 09:20:00 Robert is kidding 09:20:09 i dont like russians unlogicality 09:20:27 on e.g. "be" verb and such 09:20:36 Hm? What do you mean as "unlogical"? 09:21:02 not having 'be' verb is what annoys me very much 09:21:21 "be" is used too often. So it is omitted in most cases. 09:21:34 Just look at English. 09:22:05 i dont think english is better at all 09:22:11 english is bad to compare 09:22:14 it lacks so much 09:22:29 I agree. 09:22:54 * mur notifies that he doesn't speak indo-european language as native language 09:23:04 :) 09:23:52 Hmm. Is Finnish not indo-european? 09:23:56 no 09:24:01 finno-ugric language 09:24:07 we dont have genders for instance 09:24:28 but every word is inflected by the word itself 09:24:39 I've almost completly forgotten european languages classification. 09:25:26 i mean there are rules which are applied to words, which makes possible to invent new words that have automatically right inflection forms, no problem of classifying new words 09:25:50 there are not many non indo-european languages as main langauges in europe 09:25:54 I thought that Indo-European is the bigges category, and it includes all that "Finno-Ugric", "Slavonic" etc. 09:26:00 no 09:26:14 slavic langauges are not related to finno-ugric at all 09:26:16 HUngarian, you mean,.. 09:26:25 I know :) 09:26:52 large finno-ugric lanagues in europe are finnish, estonian and hungary 09:27:19 You should know better than me, of course. 09:27:28 on some smaller areas other than i-european: catalan (was it right langauge?) and sami 09:27:29 I mean finno-ugric languages. 09:28:28 I've heard that catalan differs much from neighboring nations language. 09:29:49 so far catalan has not been classified to any langauge category 09:30:01 We have many nations of finno-ugric roots, I don't know how should I write in english... 09:30:02 it coudl be some old branch last survived langauge 09:30:14 Mordva, Korela... 09:30:16 yes i know 09:30:19 mordva 09:30:24 ah 09:30:25 mari 09:30:40 korela = carelian? 09:30:46 yes. 09:31:00 hmm 09:31:08 lydic is finno-ugric langauge 09:31:20 somehow the word is very familiar to me 09:31:26 i just dont know why 09:31:54 I've not heard about lydic. Who (where) speaks it? 09:32:17 it's at area of lithuania or latvia 09:32:45 Hmm. Never I've been there. 09:33:04 me neither 09:33:31 I've been in Carelia (south-east) and Archangelsk. 09:34:10 inuit langauges are far relatives the finno-ugric langauges 09:34:21 These are the most northern points I reached. 09:34:29 ugric languages = inuit + fenno-ugric 09:35:18 I'm not linguist. You can rely more on my geography. 09:36:25 Ha. 09:36:32 linguistics and geography dont belong together 09:37:08 I've recalled a story, my neighbour (Mordovian) told. 09:37:09 --- quit: I440r ("Reality Strikes Again") 09:37:55 He was bilingual, but his grandmother was far less Russian than he was. 09:38:39 When he asked water "pit' = to drink", his granny asked "where?" 09:39:06 :) 09:39:59 He was very confused with two meanings. :) 09:41:32 Crazy thought: To learn Finnish. :) 09:42:22 why is it? 09:43:14 The most crazy thought I ever thought was to drop University (Moscow State Univ.) and to go to "Moscow Mining Institute". 09:43:50 I have too little time. It is hard to find time for Finnish, 09:43:52 do you know what woudlbe more crazy? 09:44:05 And books too. 09:44:40 I don't know what should be more crazy. 09:45:12 leaving one of the world's best art schools for military assistant position 09:45:14 Craziness is uncomparable property mostly. 09:46:30 There is one song. It comes from time of Civil War (1918-1922). 09:47:04 It sounds like this (fast and approximate translation): 09:47:35 "Worker, listen. The war has been started. 09:48:09 Get up your work, prepare to fight..." 09:49:57 Another song associated with "leaving art school" is Mikhail Svetlov's "Kakhovka": 09:51:14 "We are peaceful people, but our 'Panzerzug' stays on reserved railway." 09:53:38 Of course war should be the least paid thing in the world. 09:53:45 But it is not. 09:53:58 Just to look at USA. 09:53:59 damn officers are stupid 09:54:08 * mur has seen them too closely 09:54:18 most of them 09:54:34 "just to get work done" is very bad idea 09:54:45 it causes bad mind and lot of waste 09:54:53 I've failed to see them at work. 09:54:56 and non understanding 09:55:11 you coudl escape conscription sysetm? 09:55:30 I could not enter our "military courses". 09:55:53 that is good if oyu dont have to do mil service 09:56:12 You don't know our military system. 09:56:23 i know a bit 09:56:37 I'm a "soldier of reserve". 09:57:31 So I can be called from "reserve" to our engineering forces. 09:58:04 I hope I'll miss possible wars during my life. 09:58:07 civil or war engineer? 09:58:22 war engineer 09:58:33 in finnish we use pioneer derrived word 09:59:35 have you done some military courses? 09:59:40 like basic education? 10:00:18 No. 10:00:28 good 10:00:39 Men are not free from military service. 10:00:44 why weren't you chosed? academical education? 10:00:46 yes i know 10:00:53 * mur knows it all too well :( 10:01:51 But to free from real service ill/defect men, those who are unable to serve become "soldiers of reserve" 10:02:04 --- quit: flyfly ("using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.2.4") 10:02:31 In case of war they should serve as engineers or workers. 10:02:40 :( 10:03:07 i have heard those slavery stories on army there 10:03:21 and violence stories 10:03:55 at least then you woudl not die in enemy fire 10:03:55 In fact, my military courses would be fine ;) I study chemistry. 10:04:12 can i ask why were you released? 10:04:55 I knew how strong myopia should be :) 10:05:06 ;) 10:05:14 I added a bit :))) 10:05:41 here we have some special "soldiers" who are military researchers in all kind of institutes (including medicine, chemistry, information technology and laws) 10:06:21 Here they can be civil or military. 10:06:37 i mean who do conscription service as one 10:06:54 we do have paid special officers and civil resseachres too, i think 10:07:01 * mur coudl not avoid service - it even got 3 months longer. i work as conscrip graphician. good position but the athmospeher is bad there between the conscripts. 10:07:45 Secrecy is of course a more fine thing: sometimes civil men could not get secret documents. And that is reasonable. 10:07:53 especially between the graphicians + chefs and shipdrivers + conscript leaders(who are shipmen too) 10:08:26 --- quit: wossname ("no life no wife no tv blah blah lahla b chaos") 10:08:27