00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.03.11
00:02:16 <serg> i seem BSD will be next hit amongs young non-conformist
00:03:30 <serg> and then BSD will go Linux way (fat, $$$, lamers, untested kernels), something new will appear
00:05:06 <fridge> freevms =)
00:05:54 <Speuler> i don't know of a single-floppy bsd distribution. there are several linux ones. fat ?
00:07:00 <fridge> picoBSD
00:07:19 <fridge> ClosedBSD
00:07:23 <Speuler> ah
00:09:01 <Speuler> untested kernels: your choice. distrib with last-minute stuff you may use. you may also stick with, say, debian stable - there's no 2.5.xx in there.
00:09:57 <Speuler> guess i gotta ge me a single floppy bsd
00:10:37 <Speuler> what bsd-on-one-floppy gives you most stuff for space ?
00:12:28 <Speuler> not an installation which is targeted for router, gateway or firewall use
00:12:43 <Speuler> but some general purpose tools on
00:13:41 <Speuler> system diagnosis and repair, network, and the like
00:14:27 <Speuler> closedbsd sounds more like firewall-oriented distribution
00:15:10 <Speuler> pico is the one to go for 
00:15:11 <Speuler> ?
01:11:23 <serg> z
02:38:52 <serg> z
02:39:11 <Klaw> z
02:42:27 <onetom> z
02:42:31 <onetom> fridge: do u have the latest picoBSD distrib?
02:42:36 <onetom> fridge: or any frined of yours?
02:42:56 <fridge> I haven't tried them, I only know of them
02:44:08 <onetom> neither me
02:44:33 <onetom> but it has been removed from the net just the time i was about 2 try it
02:46:16 * serg dreams about commercial BSD as user friendly as XP
02:46:40 <fridge> OSX
02:46:42 <fridge> fool
02:46:57 <fridge> =)
02:47:02 <fridge> it already exists
02:47:28 <serg> name ? licence, price ?
02:48:49 <Klaw> i called up apple to buy one of those 17" powerbooks
02:49:00 <Klaw> three to five weeks before they are available
02:49:07 <Klaw> it's like waiting for x-mas
02:49:16 <fridge> hehe
02:49:24 <fridge> serg: you haven't heard of it?
02:49:32 <fridge> http://www.apple.com/macosx/
02:49:55 <serg> lol :) on PC hardware :)))
02:50:38 <fridge> yeah, well... maybe someday
02:51:41 <serg> how much OS X differs from BSD or GNU ?
02:51:57 <serg> will apps compile (almost) seamlessly ?
02:51:58 <fridge> its based off BSD code
02:52:08 <serg> does it have gcc ?
02:52:16 <fridge> serg: yeah
02:52:33 <fridge> you can compile most GNU things
02:52:53 <fridge> the system itself is compiled with  gcc 3.1
02:53:19 <fridge> its mainly different in the UI, ie no X windows, it has its own interface called aqua
02:53:26 <fridge> but you can run X11 applications too.
02:53:47 <serg> run = recompile ?
02:53:53 <fridge> I dual boot debian-ppc and OSX
02:54:11 <fridge> serg: you can run X11 applications you have compiled for this platform
02:54:54 <serg> hmmm...
02:55:06 <serg> what CPU is most Forth-friendly ?
02:55:10 <serg> 2 stacks ?
02:55:20 <serg> dup/drop/swap etc. ?
02:56:35 <serg> i mean real computers, at least as much MIPS as Pentium I
02:56:47 <serg> or better as PIV
02:59:17 <Speuler> serg: patriot scientific 1000 could be a candidate. it has the ShBoom-II as processor core
02:59:41 <serg> MIPS ?
02:59:48 <serg> prices, platforms ?
02:59:54 <Speuler> is not extremely quick though. executes forth primitives at about 80 million/second
03:00:19 <Speuler> with a 20 or 40 mhz clock
03:00:38 <Speuler> price, can't tell. 
03:00:43 <Speuler> not widely in use
03:00:56 <Speuler> i got the datasheet somewhere 
03:01:03 <Speuler> shall i look it up ?
03:01:50 <Speuler> has many forth primitives as hardcoded instructions
03:02:45 <Speuler> fetches 32 bit/mem clock, runs internally at 4x mem clock, executing 4  8-bit-instructions per mem clock
03:03:15 <Speuler> i think mem clock = clock/2 ,  internal clock = clock*2
03:03:40 <serg> hmm.. don't trouble yourself
03:04:01 <Speuler> datasheet as pdf
03:04:08 <serg> i might by ready comp or kit, but won't design m/board :(
03:04:32 <serg> bUy damn jammy kbd...
03:05:19 <serg> maybe only if mommy would be Xtremely simle and made of widespread cheap chips :)
03:06:11 <Speuler> found datasheet
03:06:45 <Speuler> want me to put it on web server ?
03:10:53 <Speuler> http://logilan.info/~l/psc1000.pdf
03:11:46 <serg> sorry, no - traffic lim
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05:16:33 <Robert> Hi
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06:08:01 <Serg_Penguin> z
06:31:01 <Speuler> hi rob
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06:58:34 <Speuler> bashforth v0.41 released. integrated doc facility redone. added rnd +! cell cells chars. working around bash 2.05a bug.
06:59:34 <Speuler> oh. speed up a bit
07:00:21 <Speuler> http://logilan.info/~l/bashforth
07:28:06 <onetom> great!
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07:40:38 <gilbertdeb> .
07:41:09 <Robert> ,'
07:41:57 <gilbertdeb> whats new in 4th today?
07:42:42 <Speuler> .41 :)
07:42:52 <gilbertdeb> is it multitasking yet?
07:43:25 <Speuler> nope. probably not going to be. key input from read difficult to intercept. another bug in bash with read -t 0
07:43:44 <Speuler> maybe if bug fixed
07:43:57 <gilbertdeb> bash is buggy isn't it?
07:44:18 <Speuler> not extremely. but some features, not often used, are probably not well tested
07:44:40 <Speuler> nobody normally needs reading a key with timout of zero seconds ...
07:45:28 <Speuler> -t 0 returns immediately, that's ok,
07:45:39 <Speuler> but it forgets to pick up a key :(
07:45:49 <gilbertdeb> workaround?
07:45:55 <Speuler> -t 1
07:46:04 <Speuler> one second between keys
07:46:11 <Speuler> buffered, ok
07:46:28 <Speuler> but, tasks switched only once per second
07:47:39 <Speuler> fix source. checked already, but t=0 used as flag somewhere else...
07:49:33 <Speuler> can get it to pick keys up immediately, but it will wait forever if no key ...
07:50:02 <Speuler> or i can have it (as is) return immediately, and pick up no key
07:50:31 <Speuler> wait 1 sec and pick up key is best i can do right now
07:50:47 <Speuler> is int. no 0.000001 sec accepted :)
07:51:48 <gilbertdeb> I doubt it somehow.
08:37:40 <gilbertdeb> school.
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11:26:03 <Robert> Hi
11:26:08 <Herkamire> hello
11:26:38 <tathi> Hey
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12:44:10 <Robert> Hi flyfly 
13:01:29 <flyfly> hi
13:22:10 <flyfly> .
13:22:30 <Robert> .
13:23:25 <flyfly> stack underflow
13:23:26 <wossname> ;
13:23:28 <wossname> damn you
13:23:36 * Robert eats wossname.
13:24:01 <wossname> merciful release
13:28:48 <wossname> holy fuck check out this new hyperlinked dbase running with 4k overhead on any chip uses ten cycles every second and performs a million transactions a minute
14:03:42 <flyfly> .
14:15:37 <wossname> .
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14:44:23 <wossname> :(
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17:53:12 --- log: started forth/03.03.11
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17:53:12 --- topic: 'The channel for active & collaborating Forth coders | IsForth: runs on linux, coded in x86 asm - http://isforth.clss.net | official forth sites: http://www.ultratechnology.com/forth.htm & http://www.colorforth.com'
17:53:12 --- topic: set by thin on [Sat Feb 01 12:00:41 2003]
17:53:12 --- names: list (clog perlpimp I440r_ CaffeineJunkie Speuler gilbertdeb flyfly Robert Fractal skylan Klaw fridge onetom TreyB @ChanServ)
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19:43:46 <gilbertdeb> hello
19:43:58 <Herkamire> hi :)
19:44:53 <gilbertdeb> how is herkamireforth coming along?
19:46:18 <Herkamire> I haven't done any work on it this week because I just got a linux server, and I've been setting it up.
19:46:35 <Herkamire> I've been trying to write a perl module for apache in perl, and I don't know perl too well yet, so it's taking a while.
19:47:02 <gilbertdeb> why a perl module?
19:47:11 <gilbertdeb> isn't one pre-written someplace on cpan?
19:47:11 <Herkamire> I've figured out how it should work, but I still have to code it to make sure it can work that way :)
19:48:16 <gilbertdeb> did you manage to get gentoo running?
19:48:23 <Herkamire> I wanna do my server scripting in perl instead of php, and I want it to work a certain way.
19:48:52 <Herkamire> I have mod_perl (for apache) and I'm trying to get it to do what I want. mod_perl is setup to run CGI scripts, and so you can write apache modules in perl.
19:49:08 <Herkamire> yeah. gentoo is running great :)
19:49:19 <gilbertdeb> is perl your preferred language?
19:49:32 <Herkamire> I'm not sure yet
19:49:36 <gilbertdeb> there could be a python solution afoot ;)
19:49:53 * gilbertdeb randomly recommends python whenever perl is mentioned.
19:49:59 <Herkamire> :)
19:50:02 <Herkamire> I do like python
19:50:16 <gilbertdeb> there's gotta be a mod_python!
19:50:25 <Herkamire> although perl might be better suited to this
19:50:31 <gilbertdeb> :O
19:50:31 <Herkamire> there is no mod_python
19:50:58 <Herkamire> the server scripting I've done is mostly text mangling, which is perl's forte
19:51:33 <gilbertdeb> line noise.
19:51:35 <gilbertdeb> hehehe
19:51:38 <Fractal> Of course, you can still use python viz CGI
19:51:55 <Herkamire> yes. but I'm concerned with the startup overhead with python
19:51:56 <Fractal> Via
19:52:10 <gilbertdeb> Herkamire: there is a mod_python
19:52:15 <gilbertdeb> but since its a perl forte job ...
19:52:35 <Fractal> Shouldn't be that signifigant. Remember, if it is called frequently, large portions of the python executable will remain in memory.
19:52:37 <Herkamire> the main feature of mod_perl is that it gets rid of most of the startup overhead
19:52:57 <gilbertdeb> for apache?
19:52:57 <Herkamire> gilbertdeb: where?
19:53:05 <gilbertdeb> modpython.org :O
19:53:09 <gilbertdeb> imagine that?
19:53:25 <gilbertdeb> I only guessed at it and there it was.
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19:53:37 <gilbertdeb> hmmm, I am gonna guess 10 million tax free dollars now.
19:53:50 <gilbertdeb> that didn't work.
19:55:41 <Herkamire> hmmm I jump to conclusions quick.
20:00:24 <Herkamire> I don't know what made me think there was no mod_python
20:00:36 <Herkamire> There's even a gentoo package for it
20:00:37 <gilbertdeb> Herkamire: python >= perl :)
20:00:51 <gilbertdeb> so if perl can do it, chances are python can be used as well.
20:01:16 <Herkamire> probably :)
20:01:36 <Herkamire> I'm gunna try perl first though. I really want to learn perl better
20:02:18 <gilbertdeb> I guessed.
20:02:27 <gilbertdeb> perl > python when you wanna learn perl.
20:02:29 <gilbertdeb> iff
20:04:02 <Herkamire> BBIAB. gotta make a call
20:05:59 <Herkamire> dang those phone calls go quick when nobody answers :)
20:06:17 <gilbertdeb> hehehe
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20:11:26 --- topic: 'The channel for active & collaborating Forth coders | IsForth: runs on linux, coded in x86 asm - http://isforth.clss.net | official forth sites: http://www.ultratechnology.com/forth.htm & http://www.colorforth.com'
20:11:26 --- topic: set by thin on [Sat Feb 01 12:00:41 2003]
20:11:26 --- names: list (clog Herkamire gilbertdeb njd ianni perlpimp Speuler flyfly Robert Fractal skylan Klaw fridge onetom TreyB @ChanServ)
20:11:37 <Herkamire> I can write my crazy module thing later
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20:32:03 * Herkamire wonders how he's supposed to get post data in mod_perl
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21:16:10 <gilbertdeb> wb
21:22:21 <Herkamire> finding online perl documentation is frustrating
21:22:32 <Herkamire> they seem to think I should buy the book
21:22:56 <gilbertdeb> I thought one of perl's fortes was cpan
21:39:04 <Herkamire> that's for modules isn't it?
21:39:10 <Herkamire> I want basic perl stuff
21:39:40 <Herkamire> like why I can't use <STDIN> in a mod_perl's CGI env
21:40:04 <gilbertdeb> <whisper>python</whisper>
21:40:12 <gilbertdeb> I know zilch about perl.
21:40:22 <gilbertdeb> I know I know zilch about perl.
21:40:26 <Herkamire> I spent at least 10 minutes, and couldn't find an example of how to parse a post.
21:40:27 <gilbertdeb> and thats all I know about perl.
21:40:34 <Herkamire> heh :)
21:41:02 <Herkamire> I now have an example though :)
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