00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.02.28
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06:53:38 <Speuler> hi serg
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06:54:02 <Speuler> hmm .. am i such a scare ?
06:54:10 <Robert> Yes.
06:54:18 <Speuler> lets try
06:54:22 <Speuler> hi rob
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06:56:00 <Speuler>   : masskick   ." hi all"  ;
06:57:17 <gilbertbsd> hi Speuler
06:57:53 <mur> forth bot
06:57:57 <Speuler> hi gilbertbsd
06:58:25 <mur>  : speuler ;
06:58:29 <mur> hello everyone
06:58:32 <mur> terve 
06:58:32 <mur> :)
07:00:49 <Speuler> hi mur
07:01:14 <Robert> Terve, mur 
07:01:27 * Kitanin reads the scroll-back.
07:01:49 <Kitanin> Feh!  They encounter the SEP field _after_ they chase the sofa.
07:02:09 <Speuler> ah
07:02:14 <Kitanin> :-)
07:02:22 <Speuler> space-time was messed up then
07:02:28 <Speuler> that has affected me 
07:02:35 <Kitanin> Eddie's in the space-time continuum, is he?
07:03:38 <Speuler> Kitanin: you're h2g2 expert
07:04:01 * Speuler pulls his hat and bows deeply
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07:05:57 <Kitanin> Well, I was listening to the tapes while I read the books last night.  They're fresh information.
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07:06:53 <Speuler> hi I440r
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07:07:54 <Serg_Penguin> hi I440r !!
07:09:28 <mur> privet Serg_Penguin
07:09:59 <mur> Mmmmmmm... Good bread!
07:10:07 <mur> heavenly tasting
07:10:10 * Robert ate some good bread, too
07:10:18 <mur> it is still warm
07:10:24 <mur> i want to learn to make such bread too
07:10:28 <Robert> I microwaved this ;D
07:10:29 <mur> then i coudl make it every day ;)
07:10:29 <Robert> Hehe
07:10:37 <Robert> Mom's making good bread.
07:11:10 <mur> hmmm
07:11:20 <mur> hmm wheat bread 
07:11:36 <mur> i'll go eat third piece :)
07:12:23 <Robert> Yay
07:12:49 <mur> and get more soda
07:13:20 <mur> :9
07:18:05 <mur> NAAAMMM!!
07:18:37 <mur> Fresh lakrits, tasty bread and orange soda. what a wonderful combination!
07:19:28 <gilbertbsd> lakrits?
07:19:33 <gilbertbsd> is that a big fat hen?
07:19:58 <mur> no
07:20:06 <gilbertbsd> a skinny goat?
07:20:10 <mur> that is licorice
07:20:11 <mur> i guess
07:20:19 <mur> if i spellt it correctly
07:20:24 <gilbertbsd> that extremely sweet candy?
07:20:35 <mur> not extremely
07:20:56 <mur> it's a bit salty
07:21:35 <mur> i dont mean that alcohol licorice if i spelled it wrong way
07:26:03 <Kitanin> Licorice and orange soda?  <shudder>
07:26:19 <mur> not alcohol
07:26:24 <mur> i'll check the spelling 
07:26:30 <Kitanin> The spelling is right.
07:27:02 <Kitanin> I'm just experiencing Tiger-Tiger ice cream withdrawal symptoms.  :-)
07:27:07 <gilbertbsd> I did not know there was alcoholic licorice.
07:27:07 <mur> yes
07:27:16 <mur> uhmm
07:27:18 <Kitanin> gilbert: Sambucca
07:27:21 <mur> there has been in finland at least
07:27:38 <mur> anyways how is alcohol thing spelled liquiour?
07:27:43 <mur> liqousuitlsirenigonoiwsneg
07:27:44 <mur> something
07:28:00 <Kitanin> "Fancy Booze"
07:28:07 <mur> haha
07:28:17 <mur> liquid 
07:28:23 <mur> liqoiur?
07:28:24 <Kitanin> Liqueur.
07:28:31 <mur> bloody english
07:28:39 <gilbertbsd> I am not English.
07:28:45 <gilbertbsd> also, I am not bleeding :D
07:28:52 <gilbertbsd> liquor
07:29:10 <mur> gilbertbsd, i just bite you. you WILL bleed >:)
07:29:24 <gilbertbsd> do fin's bite a lot?
07:29:32 <mur> i dont know about fins
07:29:37 <mur> but finns dont
07:30:31 <Kitanin> Unless they're moose...
07:30:58 <gilbertbsd> one moose, two ... ?
07:31:03 <gilbertbsd> thats right. meese :D
07:31:35 <Kitanin> I've met a moose.  I'll call them whatever they want to be called.
07:32:14 <mur> we have had moose almost inside our house
07:32:16 <mur> ah
07:32:22 <mur> hmm no i think it was elk
07:32:23 <Kitanin> Big house.
07:32:26 <gilbertbsd> what were they looking for?
07:32:34 <gilbertbsd> orange soda, licorice and bread?
07:32:35 <mur> way to out
07:32:55 <mur> or then they were eating this winter tree berries
07:33:12 <mur> one leaf tree has berries wintertime
07:33:54 * Kitanin wonders why mur has a winter tree in the house.
07:35:12 <mur> no not inside
07:36:37 <gilbertbsd> almost inside?
07:39:47 * Serg_Penguin had only mice, not moose
07:40:03 <Speuler> for breakfast ?
07:40:31 <Serg_Penguin> mice nearly had me 4 breakfast :(((
07:41:02 <Serg_Penguin> at one job, ratz were biting off computer mouse tails :)
07:41:04 <Speuler> you live on nutricious grounds
07:41:24 <Serg_Penguin> and at home i was fighting w/ rats
07:41:46 <Serg_Penguin> my mom once caught mouse by bare hand, instead of a cat
07:41:49 <Speuler> oh well. where there are rats, there aren't many cockroaches
07:42:23 <Serg_Penguin> my neighbours are fu...g foul
07:42:26 <Speuler> t'is like with dogs and cats
07:42:44 <Serg_Penguin> not only kukarachos but even bloody bedbugz
07:43:10 <Serg_Penguin> we were spewing poisons like napalm
07:43:34 <Serg_Penguin> ratz and bedbugz are now gone, but no week w/o seeing kukaracha
07:44:31 * Serg_Penguin once heard about cat tearing off dog's ear :)
07:46:01 <I440r> serg hi :)
07:50:38 <Robert> Hi
07:52:18 <mur> violent world
07:52:23 <mur> badly built house
08:34:07 <Serg_Penguin> z
08:34:30 <mur> z?
08:34:33 <mur> sleeping?
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09:59:33 <mur> http://www.dia.mil/Public/Foia/index.html
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11:24:48 <ramnull> What's up?
11:26:33 <ramnull> Anyone here using GForth?
11:34:35 <mur> hm
11:35:20 <ramnull> mur: Just hanging out? Lurking?
11:35:30 <mur> :)
11:36:44 <ianni> that;'s classified
11:37:16 * mur knows a lot of classified information
11:37:21 <mur> too much :/
11:37:38 <mur> good that i dont remember them well :)
11:37:42 <ianni> hehe
11:38:39 <ramnull> I've been toying around with file IO in GForth. And for some reason, after reading a straight text file into memory, the "count" word never returns a value greater than 50, and I know the file is bigger than that.
11:38:47 <mur> you woudlnt laugh if you knew what kind of classified information that is !
11:38:49 <mur> :P
11:38:55 <mur> it's _really secret_
11:38:57 <mur> :P
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11:43:29 <ianni> mur - work for finnish government? 
11:43:42 <mur> no
11:43:54 <mur> but it's related to it 
11:44:14 <mur> last document said "for german and finnish eyes only" :P
11:44:55 <mur> but no more about the subject
11:44:59 <mur> shush ;)
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11:55:50 <Speuler> ramnull: yes, me. sometimes
11:57:34 <ramnull> Speuler: Trying to figure out why, after reading a file using read-file, the word COUNT never returns more than 50 for the number of bytes in that region of memory.
11:58:57 <Speuler> ramnull: reading the files in chunks, or one single operation ?
11:59:16 <ramnull> Speuler: One single operation.
11:59:55 <Speuler> i don't know that behaviour. it used to return the numbers of bytes actually read from the file
12:00:04 <ramnull> Speuler: Often times I'll just use "file-size" as the count for the read-file word.
12:00:27 <Speuler> ah. filesize is a double. using d. to output it ?
12:02:23 <ramnull> Speuler: Nope. Make a difference?
12:03:55 <Speuler> try   4. . .    , then try   4. d.
12:05:00 <Speuler> i tried it
12:05:10 <Speuler> it returns the number of bytes read from the file.
12:05:33 <Speuler> i have a file  "words" with about 15 kb.
12:05:37 <Speuler> i did:
12:05:46 <Speuler> s" words" r/o open-file .
12:06:11 <Speuler> here 1000000 rot  read-file d.
12:06:49 <ramnull> Speuler: But I'm not counting the number of bytes read from the file, I'm counting the number of bytes in a region of RAM called "SOMETEXT" after it's already been read. Theres a difference.
12:07:19 <Speuler> how do you count them ?
12:08:15 <Speuler> after all, read-file tells you how much was read
12:08:21 <Speuler> that's the info you would use
12:08:22 <ramnull> Speuler: README count
12:08:34 <ramnull> Or...
12:08:35 <Speuler> that gives you a byte.
12:08:40 <Speuler> 0...255
12:08:43 <ramnull> SOMETEXT count
12:08:47 <Speuler> did you put the count there ?
12:09:52 <Speuler> disk read didn't 
12:10:46 <ramnull> Speuler: Your missing the point. Imagine that I didnt read the file from disk. Imagine that it was just magically there in RAM.
12:11:17 <Speuler> do you also suppose the count byte sits there at the begin of file magically ?
12:11:42 <Speuler> if the file is there, something has to have put it into mem
12:11:57 <Speuler> that "something" would also have to have put the len info there
12:11:59 <Speuler> did it ?
12:12:58 <ramnull> Speuler: No. I could have put the file there using a C function which, as far as I know, uses a terminator rather than a length count.
12:13:44 <Speuler> if there's a terminator, there is no count byte, which, when read with count, would make any sense
12:13:51 <Speuler> do you know what count does ?
12:14:22 <ramnull> Speuler: That's all it does is reads the first cell for the size of the string?
12:14:28 <Speuler> : count  1+ dup 1- c@ ;
12:14:36 <Speuler> no. the first byte
12:14:44 <ramnull> I see.
12:14:54 <ramnull> Now it makes sense.
12:15:23 <Speuler> for 0-delimited memory data, you could use countz
12:15:34 <Speuler> that scans the string, looking for a 0
12:15:45 <Speuler> and returns the distance from the begin
12:16:00 <ramnull> Speuler: Aha. Now it's becomming much clearer.
12:16:08 <GilbertBSD> Celebrity I resemble most: "Ethan Hawke's early years — think White Fang."
12:16:18 <GilbertBSD> why is that so important?
12:16:59 <GilbertBSD> why can't people look the way they look w/o looking like a celebrity.
12:17:07 <GilbertBSD> perhaps we should aspire to look like CM :D
12:17:14 * Speuler looks like Speuler
12:17:22 * GilbertBSD looks like Gilbert
12:17:41 <Speuler> ohhh. my sunglasses, quick
12:18:06 <ramnull> Speuler: I was comparing apples and oranges.
12:18:24 <Speuler> there is no operator for that in forth
12:18:43 <ramnull> Heh. Not yet anyways.
12:19:33 <GilbertBSD> heheh
12:20:34 <Speuler> you could define : mash .. ;    , do apple mash  orange mash  , compare then 
12:21:38 <ramnull> Ya know, I think theres a regexp Forth word floating around out there that does just that.
12:23:23 <Speuler> s" apple" s" orange" compare .   shows that apply < orange
12:23:29 <Speuler> apple 
12:24:10 <ramnull> Your having fun with that analogy.
12:26:07 <ianni> Wypracow: um, why develop on the fucked up slower container?
12:26:27 * ramnull is being paged
12:26:30 <ramnull> bbl
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12:26:40 <mur> s" apple" s"microsoft" compare .  is microsoft < apple ?
12:27:07 <Speuler> -1 means, first item < second
12:27:56 <Speuler> s" microshit" s" apple" compare .    ( 1 )
12:28:43 <ianni> misfier there
12:29:09 <Kitanin> Because the fucked up slower container is the Company Standard?  :-)
12:29:56 <ianni> Kitanin: hehe... I was arguing it wastes development time when there are free ones that are better 
12:30:04 <mur> I know what you did last summer - i read it from the irc logs!
12:30:40 <Kitanin> I know what I did last summer---I've got the court transcripts!  :-)
12:32:05 <GilbertBSD> mur the logs might have been pretty empty .
12:32:15 <GilbertBSD> people HARDLY spoke, because they were shy.
12:33:52 <mur> irc != talk
12:34:01 <mur> they differ in many ways
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12:55:48 <ianni> as the fourth option is not a tomcat location, but a J2EE one :)
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14:56:36 <Robert> :)
14:56:49 <wossname> back to idle, dude
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17:26:34 <TheBlueWizard> hiya all
17:27:51 <Robert> Hi :)
17:28:02 <TheBlueWizard> hiya Robert :)
17:30:10 <Speuler> hi tbw
17:30:24 <TheBlueWizard> hiya Speuler :)
17:31:13 * Speuler considers targetting javascript for bashforth translator too :)
17:31:45 <TheBlueWizard> why?
17:31:51 <Speuler> an asm, and an unlikely script lang, for different ends of the spectrum
17:32:23 <Speuler> if it can be done with those two, everything in between should work too
17:33:38 <Speuler> i think javascript sucks enough to make that interesting
17:33:57 <TheBlueWizard> so you see your project as a sort of kitchen sink language in the sense that you want to do various approaches, from asm level to very high level coding?
17:34:07 <Speuler> yep
17:34:22 <Speuler> broadband forth
17:34:40 <TheBlueWizard> hmm...sounds a bit Perlish to me *duck n run*
17:35:24 <Speuler> i'll need to strip the thing down a bit, to reduce translator complexity
17:35:29 <Speuler> that's not perlish
17:36:13 <Speuler> there are a number if unnecessary things in bashforth
17:36:40 <Speuler> just put in to keep the speed on a tolerable level
17:36:52 <TheBlueWizard> heh
17:36:55 <Speuler> run-time speed, that is
17:37:04 <Speuler> didn't bother about compile time a lot
17:37:23 <TheBlueWizard> presumably you are evolving it towards a "smooth" design, right?
17:37:24 <Speuler> for sake of target translating, that's not necessary
17:38:05 <Speuler> that would be a necessatiy
17:38:10 <Speuler> ty
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18:18:10 <TheBlueWizard> hiya all again
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18:32:39 <TheBlueWizard> gotta go...bye all
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