00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.02.22
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01:47:11 <ramnull> Whats up?
01:52:04 <Klaw> so much that i don't know where to start
01:52:17 <Klaw> instead, i'll just stay idle
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06:19:22 <gilbertbsd> gutenmorgen
06:19:37 <Speuler> buenos tardes
06:20:16 <Speuler> wee gates ?
06:21:09 <gilbertbsd> nyet
06:21:28 <gilbertbsd> und zeee ?
06:21:56 <Speuler> auch quite niet 
06:25:10 * Speuler needs a coffie first
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08:16:35 <Speuler> gilbertbsd: sent you new version, with  do i j loop , and negative num input working
08:17:17 <gilbertbsd> thanks.
08:17:20 <gilbertbsd> looking.
08:17:36 <Speuler> my to-do list gets kind'f short now
08:17:57 <Speuler> does> catch throw ...
08:20:13 <Speuler> and then, optimizing the shit out of it
08:20:31 <Speuler> :)
08:20:33 <gilbertbsd> out of bashforth?
08:21:32 <gilbertbsd> its not here yet.
08:21:35 <gilbertbsd> lemme see.
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08:22:09 <Speuler> resent
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08:22:35 <gilbertbsd> oops
08:22:40 <Speuler> resent
08:22:56 <gilbertbsd> got it.
08:24:02 <Speuler> took 3.5 days
08:24:11 <Speuler> new personal record
08:24:44 <gilbertbsd> to write a forth?
08:24:47 <Speuler> yep
08:24:55 <gilbertbsd> do you have previous forths?
08:25:02 <Speuler> plenty
08:25:07 <gilbertbsd> urls?
08:25:12 <Speuler> none
08:25:23 <Speuler> servers moving
08:25:39 <Speuler> domains too
08:25:53 <gilbertbsd> how come in some you use tos=$tos in debug and in others you dont?
08:26:15 <Speuler> var[index] and var[$index] are equivalent
08:27:08 <Speuler> neither does let var=foo+bar doesn't need $ 
08:27:28 <Speuler> s/doesn't//
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08:50:23 <ramnull> What it be?
08:52:07 <gilbertbsd> bashforth
08:52:24 <ramnull> You use isforth by chance?
08:52:32 <gilbertbsd> no
08:52:38 <gilbertbsd> i440 does for sure :D
08:53:11 <ramnull> Playing with it, trying to find the "include" word.
08:55:17 <gilbertbsd> hmmm. dunno anything about that.
08:55:22 <gilbertbsd> checkout bashforth too.
08:55:27 <gilbertbsd> ask Speuler about it.
08:55:32 <Speuler> maybe "fload" ?
08:55:45 * Speuler doesn't know isforth well. just guessing
08:57:01 <ramnull> It seems to be missing a bunch of words. .S doesnt even work.
08:57:41 <gilbertbsd> thats why  Isay check out Speuler's bashforth ramnull
08:58:19 <ramnull> Where can I d/l it?
08:58:25 <gilbertbsd> ask him to email it to you.
08:58:31 <Speuler> would need to put you on the mailing list
08:58:42 <gilbertbsd> he might have the latest bleeding edge version.
08:58:45 <Speuler> new versions get sent to the members
08:59:12 <gilbertbsd> speuler do you happen to have versions 0.01-0.03?
08:59:15 <ramnull> Speuler: Want me to message you with my e-mail? Note, I'm still a bit of a novice.
08:59:17 <Speuler> no
08:59:30 <Speuler> started to versionize with v0.04
08:59:42 <gilbertbsd> and previously on bashforth? what happened?
08:59:43 <ramnull> Been using GForth thus far.
08:59:44 <Speuler> ramnull: sure, i can put you on
08:59:58 <Speuler> ramnull: but i should tell you a few words about bashforth first ...
09:00:04 <Speuler> it is a bash script
09:00:23 <Speuler> don't expect it to be bleeding fast
09:00:27 <ramnull> Speuler: I suspected, from the name.
09:00:45 <Speuler> but it behaves very much like forth now
09:00:54 <Speuler> (only started it 3 days ago)
09:01:03 <ramnull> Aaaah. I see.
09:01:08 <Speuler> but it is at the point of being usabel
09:01:10 <Speuler> able
09:01:19 <gilbertbsd> if  you count the number of hours from the first email, its less.
09:01:21 <Speuler> has .s :)
09:01:43 <ramnull> Using GForth currently.
09:01:52 <Speuler> advantage: no compilation required
09:01:55 <Speuler> easy to modify
09:01:59 <Speuler> just a bash script
09:02:13 <Speuler> porting effort = zero
09:02:25 <ramnull> I'm a speed freak by nature, so this might not be right for me.
09:02:33 <gilbertbsd> ramnull whats the hurry?
09:02:42 <gilbertbsd> get a pot of tea and slowdown.
09:02:43 <gilbertbsd> :)
09:03:01 <Speuler> i'd qualify bashforth as educational
09:03:09 <ramnull> What if I settle for Jolt cola instead?
09:03:29 * ramnull snickers
09:03:55 <Speuler> ramnull: /msg is fine
09:05:23 <ramnull> Speuler: Thanks.
09:05:30 <Speuler> my pleasure
09:06:01 <ramnull> Speuler: I'll check it out, let ya know what I find.
09:06:29 <Speuler> i'd like to hear you opinion
09:06:32 <Speuler> have a good laugh :)
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09:08:40 <ramnull> It certainly looks creative.
09:09:05 <mur> what does?
09:09:14 <ramnull> Suppose it would work well with a tweaked out Bash shell.
09:09:31 <gilbertbsd> bashforth mur
09:09:37 <gilbertbsd> its the latest in forthdom.
09:09:44 <gilbertbsd> Speuler's baby.
09:10:10 <gilbertbsd> mur have you seen it?
09:10:12 <mur> no
09:10:17 <ramnull> Speuler: Might wanna include a small tutorial on optimizing ones Bash shell with it.
09:10:18 <mur> but i suppose it's shell script 
09:10:19 <mur> :)
09:10:59 <mur> if you want to do unixish os, you just need to make it run bash (clone) and you can start developing software :) 
09:11:09 <Speuler> ramnull: haven't considered tutorials at all as far. was mainly focused on coding
09:11:18 <Speuler> :)
09:11:27 <Speuler> put bash in rom
09:12:01 <gilbertbsd> whats a tutorial for?
09:12:09 <gilbertbsd> maybe just annotate the code thats all.
09:12:14 <ramnull> mur: I dont think the HURD developers would agree.
09:12:15 <Speuler> but, it may actually have a use. first contact, low threshold. educational.
09:12:25 <gilbertbsd> speuler for people like me.
09:12:26 <gilbertbsd> :)
09:12:26 <mur> ;)
09:12:39 <Speuler> i wanna make a debian package from it :)
09:12:44 <Speuler> "shell enhancer"
09:13:00 <gilbertbsd> my bash is very shaky so I am bashing as I go along as well.
09:14:03 <ramnull> Theres an idea. Create a Forth server for Debian HURD.
09:14:04 <Speuler> you can do things with this shell script which one would consider very hard to do, or even possible with bash
09:14:15 <Speuler> for example, count the number of bits in a number
09:14:23 <mur> hmm does it create binaries or just run forth ?
09:14:30 <gilbertbsd> runs forth.
09:14:32 <Speuler> oh well, no that's still ok with bash
09:14:57 <gilbertbsd> mur check it out. get it from Speuler.
09:16:30 <Speuler> reverse a string is difficult to impossible with bash i think
09:17:15 <Speuler> search searches in general
09:17:47 <Speuler> string search ...
09:18:19 <gilbertbsd> reversing? 2 arrays and some clever re-assignment :D
09:19:00 <Speuler> problem is to get the strings split into char array. also bashforth needed a workaround there
09:19:52 <mur> you coudl make a connection between the bash assembler and bash forth
09:19:53 <mur> :)
09:19:59 <mur> biiinaries more binaries
09:20:00 * Speuler thinks about adding oops to bashforth :)
09:20:10 <mur> oops command?
09:20:21 * ramnull is being paged
09:20:22 <Speuler> an object oriented layer
09:20:26 <ramnull> bbl
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09:20:42 <mur> :oops  ." rm -rf / ; echo oooops!" ;
09:20:44 <mur> ?
09:20:45 <mur> :)
09:21:38 <Speuler> want to add something real weird
09:21:58 <Speuler> such as multitasker squared
09:22:12 <Speuler> power by n i mean
09:23:41 <mur> hm
09:23:42 <mur> :)
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09:24:14 <Speuler> shower time
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09:28:46 <gilbertbsd> you are back already? that was quick mur.
09:29:09 <mur> no linux eth0 is dead
09:29:23 <mur> after i changed from pump to dhcp
09:29:24 <gilbertbsd> which linux are you running?
09:29:27 <mur> uh
09:29:28 <mur> quick
09:29:47 * mur rebooted to linux and then rebooted back to w95 and you say that was quick
09:29:53 <mur> modern os are too heavy
09:29:54 <mur> :P
09:29:56 <gilbertbsd> hehehe.
09:32:37 <mur> gilbertbsd oh and i'm running 166 mhz
09:35:50 <gilbertbsd> thats very very good.
09:36:02 <gilbertbsd> these Gigahertz monsters  Idon't understand what they are for.
09:36:03 <mur> what is?
09:36:11 <mur> yes they are slower even
09:36:11 <gilbertbsd> your machine.
09:36:22 <gilbertbsd> I have a 90mhz which  I miss dearly.
09:36:23 <gilbertbsd> :)
09:36:29 <mur> i miss amiga
09:36:32 <mur> it was faster than this
09:36:35 <mur> ;)
09:36:47 <gilbertbsd> have you seen the language created by one of the amiga people?
09:36:50 <gilbertbsd> its called rebol.
09:36:51 <mur> no
09:37:00 <gilbertbsd> rebol by sassenrath
09:37:04 <mur> what is it like?
09:37:05 <mur> forth?
09:37:14 <gilbertbsd> it was inspired by forth, lisp and scheme.
09:37:31 <gilbertbsd> it looks like python, behaves like scheme and thinks like forth.
09:37:34 * mur designs languages too
09:37:51 <gilbertbsd> if you type forth rebol you will see many references by the author to forth .
09:37:56 <mur> and uses perl regexps and uses html markup also?
09:38:03 <gilbertbsd> no.
09:38:07 <gilbertbsd> its very different from perl.
09:38:08 <mur> darn :)
09:38:12 <mur> it ws joke
09:38:18 <gilbertbsd> take a look at it ... rebol.com
09:38:23 <gilbertbsd> pretty neat.
09:38:47 <gilbertbsd> the author claims he implemented a number of forths so I guess he is a 4thSmith 
09:40:02 * mur woudl liek to see exapmle code
09:40:29 <gilbertbsd> www.rebol.org
09:40:32 <gilbertbsd> go take a look.
09:40:38 <gilbertbsd> do you have a copy of bashforth yet?
09:40:43 <mur> no
09:40:49 <gilbertbsd> :O 
09:40:50 <mur> i dont have linux in net even
09:40:50 <mur> anymore
09:40:51 <gilbertbsd> Get the collection!
09:40:59 * mur brb
09:41:09 <gilbertbsd> yeah d/l it to windows and move it to linux from there.
10:01:29 <mur> found intro
10:03:57 <mur> ooh
10:04:03 <mur> that's a bit internet related language :)
10:05:16 <gilbertbsd> do you like it?
10:06:11 <mur> it's special at least
10:06:21 <mur> internet parts i like
10:06:29 <gilbertbsd> what about the gui parts?
10:06:38 <gilbertbsd> its pretty easy to do gui stuff in it too.
10:06:41 <mur> but i didn't see how to call complicated function or inline statements
10:06:59 <mur> perhaps a web browser woudl be easy to do
10:08:36 * mur woudl like to have some kind of email upload / shell interface
10:08:41 <mur> or http
10:08:45 <gilbertbsd> it does all of that.
10:08:57 <gilbertbsd> AND it was inspired by forth :D
10:09:05 <mur> hehe
10:09:18 <mur> does it display html pages?
10:09:22 <gilbertbsd> its supposed to be as gluey as forth 
10:09:29 <gilbertbsd> I don't know. it might have a parser.
10:09:55 <gilbertbsd> so you are supposed to be able to do things like "buy shares at 50 dollars" 
10:09:57 <gilbertbsd> just like forth.
10:10:12 <mur> reboot
10:10:21 <mur> tell me that url again when ihave net working in linux k?
10:10:25 <gilbertbsd> okay.
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10:31:36 <mur> stil doesnt work
10:34:27 <gilbertbsd> what doesn't?
10:34:33 <mur> net in linux
10:34:34 <gilbertbsd> www.rebol.org 
10:34:39 <mur> not yet
10:34:39 <gilbertbsd> what did you do to it?
10:34:56 <mur> fixed dhcp clients a bit
10:35:03 <mur> i wanted to replace pump with one that works
10:35:17 <mur> now it seems i need to configure kernel with CONFIG_PACKET support
10:35:36 <gilbertbsd> that seems like a lot of work.
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11:02:13 <gilbertbsd> hi male
11:02:23 <male> Hello.
11:02:32 <gilbertbsd> have you seen bashforth yet?
11:03:03 <male> Ha. No. Is it anything like the bash intel assembler?
11:03:11 <gilbertbsd> a bit.
11:03:16 <gilbertbsd> it was written by speuler.
11:03:33 <gilbertbsd> its pretty neat though.
11:03:34 <male> What a lovely way to ruin a language ;-)
11:03:55 <gilbertbsd> way to ruin bash?
11:04:10 <male> No, to ruin Forth ;-)
11:04:33 <male> Tell him he should write one in sed now.
11:04:48 <gilbertbsd> sed does not accept inputs
11:05:05 <male> What exactly do you mean?
11:05:31 <male> It doesn't do arithmetic, though. And that's quite a hurdle.
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12:10:44 <mur> hpfhth
12:10:47 <mur> it does not work!
12:10:59 <gilbertbsd> your ifconfig ?
12:16:12 <mur> yes
12:16:19 <mur> i recompiled
12:16:43 <mur> with the dhclient error message's CONFIG_FILTER
12:16:50 <mur> compiled kernel
12:16:53 <mur> but it does not cahnge it at all
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14:32:37 <TheBlueWizard> hiya all
14:32:48 <mur> terve
14:34:34 <TheBlueWizard> hei...what's new?
14:34:46 <Robert> Hi :)
14:34:53 <TheBlueWizard> hiya Robert :)
14:35:07 <mur> i haven't accomplished anything today
14:35:11 <mur> but i'm night people
14:37:15 <TheBlueWizard> hehe....I used to be an evening person (people is plural for person)...but my current job forces to be a 9-to-5-er....and it is threatening to become a 24 x 7 job :((((
14:38:30 <mur> 9 -5 ?
14:38:35 <mur> we have here 8 - 4
14:38:50 <mur> i'm most productive and creative in the evening
14:39:22 <mur> i think i'll build a studio with paper and fabric and a toy and then do news :D
14:39:22 <TheBlueWizard> I guess it is same thing.....9-to-5 is the "standard" American work hour time
14:40:07 * TheBlueWizard agrees with you re: being creatve in the evening...unless he had to do all the "thinking" during the day...then he would be worn out
14:40:10 <mur> what do you do? code?
14:40:28 * mur can do extremely much if forced
14:40:33 <mur> i mean forced to creative work
14:40:51 <TheBlueWizard> I work as a security/programmer for the Internet system
14:41:07 <mur> security = sitting in lobby on duty?
14:41:10 <TheBlueWizard> mine isn't creative...downright DULL in fact
14:41:25 <Robert> Ah!
14:41:31 <TheBlueWizard> oh no, no, no....computer securit....Internet security
14:41:45 <Robert> I _finally_ got this Minix telnet terminal to work :)
14:41:56 <mur> i counted i have done some hundred of pages of graphics during 4 months (7 hours a day, 5 days a week - often less)
14:42:07 <TheBlueWizard> why Minix? (congrats tho...)
14:42:07 <mur> and still i've without any graphics to do quite often
14:42:34 <Robert> TheBlueWizard: Only semi-decent system I've ever bothered to install on my 486 laptop, with no CD or NIC. :)
14:43:03 <Robert> TheBlueWizard: So, Minix using PPP over a null-modem cable is used to connect to the Internet :)
14:43:18 <TheBlueWizard> hmm...Linux too big for your laptop, eh?
14:43:35 <TheBlueWizard> interesting
14:43:45 <Robert> Well... Not really. Just haven't bothered to install a Linux distro from floppies.
14:43:54 <mur> 486 laptop ?
14:44:12 <TheBlueWizard> ah...ok :)   does it have a modem?
14:44:25 <Robert> No.
14:44:35 <Robert> I use a serial cable to this computer.
14:44:49 <mur> robert are you running minix on 486 _laptop_?
14:44:51 --- join: rob_ert (~robert@h138n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #forth
14:44:52 <TheBlueWizard> there are such ancient beasts (486 laptops)...I've seen them
14:44:55 <rob_ert> Hello from Minix.
14:45:01 <rob_ert> Hah.
14:45:04 <mur> hello null cable
14:45:04 <rob_ert> I have a 286 laptop.
14:45:06 <TheBlueWizard> hehe
14:45:11 <mur> Robert big?
14:45:26 <rob_ert> But its HD is really small, 10MB. And only 640kB of RAM.
14:45:43 <rob_ert> No 1.44MB floppy either.
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14:45:54 <rob_ert> So installing anything above MS-DOS 4 is a bitch ;)
14:46:07 <rob_ert> Hi there, thin-
14:46:30 <TheBlueWizard> I thought one can install 5 up to 6.22 w/o problems...
14:46:47 --- nick: bored -> fourmntholdnick
14:47:06 --- nick: fourmntholdnick -> nevermind
14:47:06 <rob_ert> TBW, yes. I exaggerated a bit.
14:47:14 <rob_ert> Although my 6.22 disks are 1.44MB.
14:47:28 <nevermind> rob_ert often exaggerates, it's so kawaii
14:47:28 <rob_ert> DOS 5 works fine.
14:47:29 <TheBlueWizard> oh!  I now see lol
14:47:41 <TheBlueWizard> kawaii?
14:47:48 <nevermind> don't you know japanese?
14:47:54 <TheBlueWizard> no
14:48:02 <nevermind> why not?
14:48:27 <mur> heh
14:48:50 <nevermind> ah mur, rob_ert's sidekick
14:48:55 <nevermind> do you eat sidekicks?
14:49:02 <mur> side kick?
14:49:07 <mur> sock side?
14:49:07 <mur> :)
14:49:09 <mur> what are they?
14:49:13 <nevermind> ah, you are french are you not?
14:49:15 <TheBlueWizard> actually I do know a smattering of Japanese...words, mostly, like sensei, banzai, arigato....but can't even make a sentence :)
14:50:06 <nevermind> kawaii = cute
14:50:14 <TheBlueWizard> mur: a sidekick is a person that "supports" the main character in a novel, TV show, whatever...like Batman and his sidekick Robin
14:51:24 <nevermind> thebluewizard: there is an exciting world of anime (japanese style cartoons that are not just made for kids but also adults) out there
14:51:36 <nevermind> i like anime
14:51:56 <mur> no i'm not sidekick
14:52:03 <rob_ert> Sideshow bob.
14:52:18 <mur> i end up disagreeing with everything
14:52:22 <mur> even with myself
14:52:22 <nevermind> you've got your funny anime, you've got your sexy anime, you've got your car drifting anime, etc
14:52:31 <TheBlueWizard> I am aware of anime....seen it on Slashdot...paid Megatokyo a brief visit...and visited a few other animes...but so far haven't "connected" to anime (yet)
14:52:33 <nevermind> mur: ah, that's a sign of opening your mouth too much
14:52:51 <mur> sometimes, sometimes not
14:52:55 <mur> only when i talk ;)
14:53:15 * TheBlueWizard adopts mur as his meandering, always self-criticizing sidekick ;)
14:53:20 <nevermind> hmm, megatokyo isn't anime..
14:53:49 <TheBlueWizard> I thought it is....or I mix it up...whatever...too much junk in my head
14:53:51 <mur> grr
14:54:01 * mur takes the batmobile and goes away
14:54:09 <mur> i'll take it to recycle center
14:54:18 <mur> perhaps they can make tires out of the rubber on it
14:54:51 <nevermind> umm
14:54:55 <nevermind> no, give it to me
14:54:59 <nevermind> i'll mod it for performance
14:55:10 <nevermind> repaint it
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14:55:53 <mur> duh
14:56:12 <mur> i'll exchange it for powerbook
14:56:17 <nevermind> get rid of that tacky bat theme
14:56:42 <mur> it was TheBlueWizard
14:56:54 <mur> you can remove the cd player
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16:09:14 <TheBlueWizard> hiya gilbertbsd[tea] 
16:09:18 <gilbertbsd[tea]> hi
16:09:22 --- nick: gilbertbsd[tea] -> gilbertbsd
16:09:45 <gilbertbsd> whats new in forth?
16:11:25 --- join: mur (jukka@baana-62-165-190-97.phnet.fi) joined #forth
16:11:45 <gilbertbsd> so mur is it working now?
16:11:57 <TheBlueWizard> terve mur ta:a:s :)
16:12:08 <mur> uhmm
16:12:12 <mur> kind of
16:12:13 <mur> i installed pump
16:12:16 <mur> and i'm in the position where i started from
16:12:18 <mur> i haven't accomplished anything
16:12:28 <mur> terve taas, TheBlueWizard
16:15:29 <gilbertbsd> redandbluewizard have you yet heard of bashforth?
16:17:39 <TheBlueWizard> um...never heard of bashforth
16:18:00 <gilbertbsd> :O
16:18:09 <gilbertbsd> my dcc isn't working else I would have sent it to you.
16:18:19 <gilbertbsd> when speuler comes get it from him.
16:18:22 <gilbertbsd> its pretty neat.
16:18:37 <gilbertbsd> bashforth was created by speuler
16:18:59 <TheBlueWizard> I see...I will keep that in mind, though I doubt I'd have the time to decently play with it (in short term anyway)
16:19:13 <gilbertbsd> its not very large
16:19:20 <gilbertbsd> but it 'looks' like forth.
16:28:07 <TheBlueWizard> gotta go...bye all
16:28:10 <Robert> Bye.
16:28:14 <TheBlueWizard> bye Robert 
16:28:14 <gilbertbsd> ciao
16:28:21 <TheBlueWizard> bye gilbertbsd 
16:28:31 --- part: TheBlueWizard left #forth
17:18:47 --- quit: mur ("MUR!")
17:42:20 --- join: flyfly (~marekb@ip164.ktvprerov.cz) joined #forth
19:56:03 --- join: Speuler (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba4ed4.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth
19:56:17 <Speuler> 'morning
20:09:53 <gilbertbsd> hi.
20:10:26 <gilbertbsd> the following people would like bashforth: thebluewizard, male, flyfly and Iforgetwhoelse
20:10:42 <Speuler> whoah
20:10:59 <Speuler> sudden surge in populareness :)
20:12:20 <Speuler> you were beating the drums ?
20:14:17 <gilbertbsd> nope.
20:14:24 * gilbertbsd had nothing to do with it.
20:14:34 <gilbertbsd> I just happen to know that they heard about it :D
20:14:56 <gilbertbsd> how? I do not know.
20:15:34 <Speuler> possibly by reading the channel logs
20:15:42 * gilbertbsd nods
20:15:44 <gilbertbsd> possibly.
20:15:46 <gilbertbsd> :D
20:15:53 <Speuler> didn't talk about much else, after all
20:17:06 <gilbertbsd> have you done much on it since ... ?
20:17:16 <Speuler> just came back
20:17:21 <Speuler> birthday 
20:17:39 <Speuler> still 0.19
20:17:56 <gilbertbsd> you had a birthday?
20:18:02 <Speuler> friend
20:18:06 <gilbertbsd> oh.
20:18:43 <Speuler> he's running a pub
20:19:32 * Speuler is amazed his head feels still pretty clear
20:20:31 <Speuler> alcohol breakdown function probably on turbo today
20:22:14 <Speuler> what would you think is more important: smudge bit (hide/reveal) which suppresses execution of words of which compilation has failed, or
20:22:23 <Speuler> does>   ?
20:22:43 <Speuler> won't tackle both of them now :)
20:24:27 <gilbertbsd> does
20:24:31 <gilbertbsd> does>
20:24:41 <gilbertbsd> 'they' say does> is important.
20:40:14 --- join: male (~male@cpe-024-033-024-002.midsouth.rr.com) joined #forth
20:40:19 --- quit: male (Client Quit)
20:42:22 <Speuler> now that was a short visit
22:21:23 --- nick: Frx -> Fractal
22:30:56 <gilbertbsd> psst fractal
23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/03.02.22