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03:15:53 <Robert> 01:56:39 < Herkamire> Robert: where do you live? Wisconson?
03:15:56 <Robert> Heh.
03:19:40 <Fractal> Heh. Little far off.
03:19:44 <Fractal> (You're in sweden, right)
03:19:46 <Fractal> ?
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07:31:11 <joonas> ~/clear
07:31:15 <joonas> oops
07:32:29 <ianni> :o
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07:35:33 <gilbertbsd> yeah joonas you are trying not to chat in a chat room.
07:35:37 <gilbertbsd> very important. Shhhhhhh
07:35:54 <joonas> :-) at least not at work.
07:36:25 <gilbertbsd> good good.
07:36:27 <joonas> One thing I like about #forth that it's OK to just idle about.
07:36:32 <gilbertbsd> hehehe
07:36:42 * joonas resumes idling
07:36:44 <gilbertbsd> no one can talk to you IF you are AFK!
07:37:25 <joonas> heh... might as well be logged off then.
07:53:25 <joonas> What's a sure-fire way of evaluating exactly one word from the input stream?
07:53:54 <joonas> ... even when the word may be a parsing word, but that's not known.
07:54:42 <joonas> Also, the method should work in both interpretation and compilation states.
07:54:48 <joonas> I'm stumped.
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08:08:23 <Serg_Penguin> did one wrote gfx lib 4 forth ?
08:08:33 <Robert> No.
08:09:30 <joonas> iForth can access OpenGL.
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08:25:25 <Serg_Penguin> iForth ?
08:25:54 <joonas> Probably the fastest forth for x86.
08:26:02 <joonas> from Marcel Hendrix.
08:26:39 <joonas> http://home.iae.nl/users/mhx/i4faq.html
08:26:54 <joonas> there are some nice pictures showing off graphics there.
08:30:52 <Serg_Penguin> license ?
08:31:28 <joonas> You can do *whatever* you want!
08:31:32 <joonas> Literally.
08:33:25 <Serg_Penguin> it says 'buy', sad thing
08:33:44 <joonas> It's not free.  costs about $100.
08:34:09 <joonas> Compared to the 400ish of VFX, it's a bargain.
08:34:20 <joonas> But not as cheap as SwiftForth's student version.
08:34:25 <joonas> IIRC.
08:34:38 * Serg_Penguin is used to violate payware copywrongs
08:34:50 <joonas> hmm?
08:34:57 <joonas> I don't understand.
08:35:16 * Serg_Penguin has _all_ windoze soft stolen
08:35:27 <Serg_Penguin> only Linux etc. is legal at my computer
08:35:59 <joonas> iForth surely has no 'copywrongs' in it at all.  Read the iForth FAQ at the url above.
08:36:01 <Serg_Penguin> common in RU :)))
08:39:33 * Serg_Penguin objects to support Windoze by writing proggies 4 it
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09:54:47 <Speuler> 'morning
09:54:59 <joonas> morning
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11:36:42 <Speuler> input stream of bashforth is parsed, number input conversion been added to outer interpreter
11:37:48 <mur> hmm
11:37:59 <mur> why noone has coded sdl library for forth? :)
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11:39:07 <mur> gilbertbsd, 
11:39:13 <gilbertbsd> hi
11:39:25 <gilbertbsd> well I finally found out about finnish girls.
11:39:33 <mur> tell me too
11:39:51 <gilbertbsd> a lot of them are 'dark' and gothic.
11:40:13 <gilbertbsd> and all the teenagers have 'angst'.
11:40:13 <Speuler> hmm
11:40:33 <gilbertbsd> too complicated for a simple person such as myself.
11:40:37 <Speuler> when i went there, i thought "now i know why the finnish drink so much"
11:40:49 <gilbertbsd> hehehe. why do they drink so much?
11:40:52 <mur> gilbertbsd, yes wannabe's are evil
11:41:12 <mur> teen angst, yay
11:41:26 <mur> but there are intelligent ones too
11:41:32 <mur> although hard to find
11:41:35 <gilbertbsd> amongst the women?
11:41:46 <mur> is that chauvinistic comment?
11:41:50 <gilbertbsd> is it?
11:41:56 <gilbertbsd> you are stating a fact aren't you?
11:42:11 <mur> i rarely state facts 
11:42:16 <gilbertbsd> opinions?
11:42:20 <mur> neither
11:42:31 <mur> i just write
11:42:32 <mur> :)
11:42:32 <gilbertbsd> what statest thou?
11:42:41 <gilbertbsd> but it is not purely random.
11:42:46 <gilbertbsd> afdasd fa lk3w ouasdf lkadasflkj3l4 ;ljdas;lvj ;l
11:42:51 <gilbertbsd> is almost random see?
11:43:08 <mur> sometimes
11:43:18 <mur> well i try to behave like intelligent people 
11:43:23 <mur> or try to be creative
11:43:28 <mur> but sometimes i'm just too tired
11:43:31 <gilbertbsd> how do intelligent people behave?
11:43:46 <mur> today i got up 02.30 am and have been up ever since (20 hours now)
11:44:00 <mur> generalisation is dangerous
11:44:57 <mur> hmm.. usa released propaganda game.. hmm interesting
11:45:52 <mur> gilbertbsd, about the finnis irccers. there are all kinds of irccers, good ones are hard to find. that's why i stay away from finnish channels. i haven't found yet any suitable for me
11:47:10 <gilbertbsd> yeah. I am sure the good ones are on vacation in Miami :D
11:49:53 <gilbertbsd> mur so how come you have to stay up so many hours
11:52:48 <mur> hmm
11:52:52 <mur> work in a way
11:53:15 <gilbertbsd> work?
11:53:22 <gilbertbsd> there is such a thing as too much of it you know?
11:55:49 <mur> hmm
11:55:52 <mur> hurmm
11:55:56 <mur> it's not optional
11:56:04 <mur> i'm forced in a way
11:56:08 <mur> yes i hate it
11:56:15 <gilbertbsd> military?
11:56:40 <mur> yes 
11:56:44 <mur> conscriptional army
11:56:53 <mur> but only 30 so days left
11:56:59 <mur> of my service
11:57:07 <mur> then never again (i hope)
11:58:58 <mur> gilbertbsd, so where did you visit?
11:59:35 <gilbertbsd> where?
11:59:41 <gilbertbsd> on irc?
12:00:20 <mur> i dont know where you visited?
12:00:25 <gilbertbsd> eastpark
12:00:28 <mur> irc or chatrooms or real life?
12:00:42 <mur> you talked about finnish girls
12:00:43 <mur> :)
12:00:59 <gilbertbsd> irc
12:01:01 <gilbertbsd> :D :D
12:05:21 <mur> what chans?
12:05:37 <gilbertbsd> #eastpark
12:05:40 <gilbertbsd> #philosophy
12:05:42 <gilbertbsd> #jazz
12:05:44 <gilbertbsd> #finland
12:06:37 <mur> #finland had the most conservative and dumbest people right? 
12:06:47 <mur> most males and stupid teens?
12:06:56 <gilbertbsd> most of them spoke finnish :D
12:06:58 <mur> just a wild guess ..
12:07:09 <gilbertbsd> but the ones  I spoke with told me about 'angst'.
12:08:40 <mur> there are all kinds of people
12:09:04 <mur> too bad the T33N13Z!!!!1 have founded irc too
12:09:13 <mur> quakenet is very bad
12:09:34 <mur> i visited ther only once.. when i needed exapmle for such behaviour in my study of irc :)
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12:21:20 <futh> hello all
12:21:28 <gilbertbsd> shhh
12:21:33 <gilbertbsd> we are trying not to talk much :D
12:21:35 <futh> idle time?
12:21:38 <futh> hmm
12:22:03 <futh> everybody wake up quick! chuck moore is coming!
12:22:33 <gilbertbsd> hehe.
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12:51:12 <Speuler> first defining words work in bashforth 
12:52:46 <Speuler> variables ok
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12:54:44 <gilbertbsd> Chanserv is gone!
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12:56:19 <gilbertbsd> may I have the new ones please Speuler?
12:56:30 <Speuler> sent already
12:56:42 <gilbertbsd> dankeschund
12:56:57 <Speuler> my pleasure
12:57:17 <Speuler> you ARE on the list, are you ?
12:57:26 <gilbertbsd> I was first :D
12:58:06 <Speuler> things like   variable xxx   1000 xxx !   xxx @ .       work ok now
12:58:34 <Speuler>  no need to enter line-by-line :)
12:59:24 <Speuler> that is,    bl word foo  type cr   is functioning too
12:59:45 <Speuler> next thing i add will be  : and ;
13:00:26 <Speuler> oh. number conversion is in it too
13:00:44 <Speuler> though, only decimal numbers yet
13:01:04 <Speuler> bug reports welcome
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16:14:29 <Speuler> bashforth can compile colon definitions
16:15:08 <Robert> :)
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16:16:00 <Speuler> gilbertbsd: bashforth can compile colon definitions
16:16:15 <gilbertbsd> ah. good. just what I wanted to hear.
16:16:19 <gilbertbsd> I am off to d/l it.
16:16:38 <Speuler> you get it in a minute. just removing some diagnostic messages
16:18:45 <Speuler> sent
16:19:32 <gilbertbsd> thanks
16:19:40 <Speuler> my pleasure
16:42:02 <Herkamire> I keep typing echo instead of emit
16:44:25 <Speuler> Herkamire:  ' emit alias echo
16:44:59 <Robert> Heh
17:06:15 <Herkamire> heh :)
17:06:27 <Herkamire> my forth isn't fully interactive yet
17:06:56 <Herkamire> I definately don't have defining words (and I'm not sure I ever will) it's loosely based on colorforth
17:07:36 <Herkamire> I could certainly make a dictionary entry for echo though :)
17:08:15 <Herkamire> : echo ." emit you fool!" cr ; \ ;-)
17:08:26 <gilbertbsd> I still don't see whats so fantastic about colorforth: Unreadable.
17:08:39 <gilbertbsd> are there ideas in colorforth replicated elsewhere?
17:09:00 <Herkamire> I'm replicating some of the ideas
17:09:06 <gilbertbsd> I mean earlier.
17:09:06 <Robert> More beautiful than  POSTPONE A [ B C ] POSTPONE D  ;)
17:09:22 <Robert> Enth/Flux?
17:09:50 <gilbertbsd> are'nt those languages loosely based on colorforth already?
17:10:24 <Herkamire> I'm trying out another idea for source code format
17:10:48 <Herkamire> the source code is a dictionary, plus a data section, plus a bunch of words
17:11:08 <Herkamire> each word is 16 bits: 12 for an offset into the dictionary, and 4 for the color
17:12:04 <Herkamire> the color tells the interpreter if it should execute, compile, define, compile a literal, or put a number on the stack
17:13:15 <Herkamire> It's not terribly useful now, because I don't have an editor for it (nor much of a forth to write an editor in, but I think it will work very nicely
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17:14:20 <Herkamire> it already (after a week of development) runs, compiles, etc from this source format.
17:14:42 <Herkamire> I'm in the process of adding enough text processing that I can make it fully interactive (this is about half done)
17:15:06 <Robert> Hrm. It takes a little brother to ask for computer support at 2:15 am.
17:15:28 <Herkamire> I can call words, and type in hex and decimal numbers
17:15:45 <Herkamire> but I can't compile anything interactively, or save yet
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18:09:28 <Speuler> oh, interesting. bashforth still handles numbers up to 9223000000000000000
18:09:52 <Speuler> alloting 300 megabytes wasn't a problem :)
18:10:35 <Robert> Haha
18:10:51 <Speuler> do that with a 32bit forth :)
18:13:05 <Speuler> 300000000 dup * .   
18:13:08 <Speuler> fine :)
18:13:46 <Speuler> 3000000000 dup * .    still ok ..
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18:29:46 <gilbertbsd> wow Speuler
18:29:53 <gilbertbsd> its behaving like a forth!
18:30:50 <Speuler> your version can't compile numbers yet.
18:31:03 <Speuler> : foo  10000 ;   leaves number on stack
18:31:07 <Speuler> got it fixed here
18:31:41 <Speuler> how's speed ?
18:32:03 <gilbertbsd> speed shmeed
18:32:05 <gilbertbsd> it works fine.
18:32:10 <gilbertbsd> lemme see something.
18:32:11 <Speuler> what cpu ?
18:32:22 <gilbertbsd> thats what I'm checking on now.
18:33:10 <gilbertbsd> 350/192megram
18:33:50 <Speuler> x86 ?
18:34:19 <gilbertbsd> yep intel
18:35:36 <Speuler> "code" words will look funny :)
18:35:45 <Speuler> after all, "code" is bash script
18:35:53 <Speuler> that is, a code word interfaces to the os
18:36:11 <Speuler> code foo  xeyes  ;code
18:37:13 <gilbertbsd> it does'nt do .( hello mutha ) or ." hello muthaf* " ?
18:37:39 <Speuler> 34 word  foo" type
18:37:55 <Speuler> or define .( yourself  
18:38:37 <Speuler> ; .( 41 word type ;
18:38:47 <Speuler> immediate
18:40:29 <gilbertbsd> I am gonna read bashforth for a teeny bit.
18:41:03 <Speuler> does in parts not look like bash script at all
18:41:15 <gilbertbsd> yeah your for loops like cish
18:41:27 <gilbertbsd> instead of pythonish :D
18:43:14 <Speuler> the indirect pre/post-increment/decrement stuff of bash is really useful
18:45:22 <Speuler> ' and ['] are there now too
18:45:26 <Speuler> ' words execute
18:45:48 <Speuler> am just busy with control flow
18:46:10 <Speuler> begin ... while ... repeat etc
18:46:44 <Speuler> need it for benchmark
18:49:10 <Speuler> math is 62 bit
18:49:53 <Speuler> but that may depend on the version of bash
18:50:10 <gilbertbsd> ummm are you gonna repeat all the loops of forth?
18:50:18 <Speuler> sure
18:50:43 <Speuler> i might leave out +loop though
18:50:45 <gilbertbsd> aww all thats needed is do loop and the while thingamabob.
18:50:47 <gilbertbsd> why that?
18:50:53 <Speuler> lazy
18:51:03 <Speuler> can't use overflow bit
19:02:17 <Speuler> begin again works
19:03:13 <Speuler> begin until works
19:03:37 <gilbertbsd> can you dcc it ?
19:03:42 <gilbertbsd> I don't wanna go all the way to yahoo :D
19:03:46 <Speuler> sure
19:04:07 <gilbertbsd> hmmm. I wonder if it'll make it through my firewall.
19:05:01 <Speuler> waiting ...
19:05:24 <gilbertbsd> I hit 'accept'.
19:05:44 <gilbertbsd> bah.
19:05:47 <gilbertbsd> email then :9
19:05:49 <gilbertbsd> :(
19:06:37 <Speuler> sent
19:08:17 <Speuler> : foo 1000 begin 1- dup 0= until drop ;  takes 7 seconds ...
19:08:29 <Speuler> 500 mhz
19:09:59 <Speuler> : foo 1000 begin dup . 1- dup 0= until drop ;     ( 11 seconds )
19:10:22 <Speuler> not really a speed monster
19:15:16 <Speuler> btw, there is a yahoo pop utility. gets webmail from yahoo as if it was a pop server
19:17:38 <gilbertbsd> yeah. the popserver
19:17:53 <Speuler> no need to go to yahoo with that
19:18:07 <gilbertbsd> yeah don't they wanna charge me some $$$ for that?
19:18:37 <Speuler> btw, there is a yahoo pop utility. gets WEBMAIL from yahoo AS IF IT WAS a pop server
19:18:58 <gilbertbsd> from yahoo?
19:19:23 <gilbertbsd> or who provides it?
19:19:36 <Speuler> is a debian package
19:19:56 <Speuler> fetchyahoo it is called
19:20:12 <Speuler> FetchYahoo is a Perl script that downloads mail from a Yahoo! webmail   
19:20:12 <Speuler> account to a local mail spool, an mbox file, or to procmail. It is meant to
19:20:12 <Speuler> replace fetchmail for people using Yahoo! mail since Yahoo!'s POP and email
19:20:12 <Speuler> forwarding services are no longer free. It includes all parts and
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19:36:50 <gilbertbsd> I just noticed that your ok prompt displays a corresponding number of dots for items on the stack.
19:37:01 <gilbertbsd> things are getting interesting.
19:41:16 <Speuler> wordlist is getting long. vertical format of words makes no sense anymore
19:42:01 <gilbertbsd> what do you mean?
19:42:11 <Speuler> do "words"
19:42:24 <Speuler> try to read the names of the most recent words
19:43:02 <gilbertbsd> looks just fine to me :D
19:43:13 <gilbertbsd> it runs sure, but you gotta be a fast reader.
19:43:28 <Speuler> i can't read that fast 
19:44:07 <Speuler> might put a "sleep 0.1" between
19:44:11 <Fractal> Speuler : What platform are you writing this forth for?
19:44:21 <Speuler> any linux
19:44:29 <Speuler> zero porting effort :)
19:44:29 <Fractal> Oh. In C?
19:44:31 <Speuler> no
19:44:39 <Fractal> Cool.
19:44:42 <Speuler> in bash
19:44:50 <gilbertbsd> fractal its terribly cool.
19:44:51 <Fractal> Heh. Cool.
19:45:13 <Speuler> forth as bash script
19:45:22 <gilbertbsd> bashing forth really
19:45:22 <Speuler> thought that's something for a change
19:45:29 <gilbertbsd> or forthing bash
19:45:33 <Speuler> works already reasonably
19:45:39 <gilbertbsd> speuler I am learning from it.
19:45:47 <gilbertbsd> despite my meager bashing knowledge :D
19:45:54 <Speuler> bash, or forth ? :)
19:46:04 <gilbertbsd> both actually.
19:46:18 <gilbertbsd> a readable implementation of forth in bash.
19:46:37 <gilbertbsd> you should get one of those 4thSmith badges.
19:46:54 <gilbertbsd> put it on your business card :D
19:47:34 <Speuler> i learned something about bash too
19:47:58 <gilbertbsd> whats that?
19:48:10 <Speuler> with the line input stuff, i had the feeling i was stretching bash to its limits
19:48:17 <Speuler> there are no string functions ...
19:48:21 <gilbertbsd> in bash?
19:48:29 <gilbertbsd> or in bashforth?
19:48:33 <Speuler> bash
19:48:39 <Speuler> bashforth can do it 
19:48:50 <Speuler> needed some tricks
19:49:33 <Speuler> have you had a look how i convert a character to its ascii ?
19:51:43 <Speuler> f.e.  pressing a key ( say A ) gives the char A, not the ascii. but on stack, i need to put the ascii, 65 in that case
19:52:16 <gilbertbsd> no I'm reading slowly.
19:52:29 <Speuler> actually, the input line goes into buffer, which is then split into chars, and spread across an array variable
19:52:31 <gilbertbsd> give slow children time to cross :D
19:52:43 <Speuler> this splitting i was not able to do with bash
19:52:58 <Speuler> that's the only place i use an external command.  cut
19:53:25 <gilbertbsd> yes you mentioned needing to use cut or awk.
19:53:41 <Speuler> and, on the characters, i use a binary search, to determine their ascii values ...
19:53:53 <Speuler> no awk. too powerful :)
19:54:56 <Speuler> the input stream stuff is made from work-arounds
19:56:30 <Speuler> you won't see the effort behind when doing   bl word foo  . count . count . c@ .
19:56:46 <Speuler> but the machine is really rattling then
19:58:37 <Speuler> that part (accept) should be studied with care
19:59:46 <Speuler> cause there are three workarounds involved
20:04:04 <gilbertbsd> there is something I am lost on.
20:04:15 <Speuler> that is ?
20:04:25 <gilbertbsd> why did you do m=() 
20:04:28 <gilbertbsd> instead of m=
20:04:29 <gilbertbsd> ?
20:04:39 <Speuler> rather than declare -a
20:05:04 <Speuler> advice of dufflebunk from #bash
20:05:18 <gilbertbsd> ah  I see.
20:05:19 <Speuler> array variable gets declared
20:05:28 * gilbertbsd nods
20:09:53 <Speuler> i guess i can remove the debug functions from the virtual machine for some real speedup :)
20:10:23 <gilbertbsd> no leave it there.
20:10:40 <gilbertbsd> offer it as a short vim substitution command in the comments :D
20:11:04 <Speuler> commenting out will do
20:11:59 <Speuler> wooah
20:12:22 <Speuler> 1000 iterations "benchmark" from 7 down to 4 seconds
20:15:50 <Speuler> i have no idea how this type of threading would be called
20:16:34 <Speuler> in the cfa is the name (as string) of the word handler
20:17:05 <Speuler> try:    ' dup @ .
20:17:33 <Speuler> ' state @ .
20:18:33 <gilbertbsd> ' dup @ .
20:18:33 <gilbertbsd> primitive  ok
20:18:33 <gilbertbsd> ' state @ .
20:18:33 <gilbertbsd> dovar  ok
20:18:43 <Speuler> grin
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20:21:58 <gilbertbsd> wb chanserv
20:28:22 <Speuler> begin .. while .. repeat works
20:33:31 <gilbertbsd> are those  your favorite loops?
20:34:00 <gilbertbsd> copy per favore.
20:34:04 <Speuler> that's all the loops starting with "begin"
20:34:29 <Speuler> moment. will finish if else then first
20:38:20 <Speuler> if..then as far
20:45:03 <Speuler> else ok
20:48:30 <Speuler> sent
20:49:06 <Speuler> should be much speedier on your machine too
20:49:27 <gilbertbsd> thanks.
20:49:57 <Speuler> bug in "repeat"
20:50:06 <Speuler> $then must be $fthen
20:51:18 <Speuler> hm. i broke something in begin while repeat
20:54:18 <Speuler> must be the repeat. rest works
21:05:38 <gilbertbsd> ah I am weak and need sleep.
21:05:42 <gilbertbsd> I am off to get some.
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