00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.02.19
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00:35:24 <Klaw> rubberish
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00:56:50 <Jaster> I hear you
01:00:02 <Robert> Morrn.
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02:06:54 <Serg_Penguin> z
02:07:41 <Robert> :)
02:10:25 <Robert> Dobroje utro.
02:41:11 <Serg_Penguin> z
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07:05:55 <Herkamire> 'mornin' gilbertbsd, skylan, Kitanin
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07:07:44 <gilbertbsd> Hi herkamire
07:10:50 <gilbertbsd> whats new in Forth?
07:11:04 <gilbertbsd> I was reading in c.l.f that ER owns the SF copyright.
07:11:21 <gilbertbsd> will it now be digitized?
07:13:03 <Herkamire> I'm writing a forth in PPC asm (which I'm learning as I go)
07:13:09 <Herkamire> what's ER and SF?
07:14:29 <gilbertbsd> elizabeth rather
07:14:31 <gilbertbsd> and starting forth
07:14:47 <gilbertbsd> which are you learning the forth or the ppc asm?
07:14:53 <Herkamire> I just learned how to detect errors from syscalls.
07:14:58 <Herkamire> ppc asm
07:15:30 <Herkamire> I have a pretty good idea what sort of forth I want
07:15:57 <gilbertbsd> when did you start?
07:16:16 <Herkamire> friday
07:17:31 <gilbertbsd> how far along is it?
07:22:21 <Herkamire> hardly :)
07:22:32 <Herkamire> I've worked for a total of probably 5 hours
07:22:59 <Herkamire> It prints a usage string, or reads in an input file, then sets some registers
07:23:08 <gilbertbsd> it would take me 40 days and 40 nights to do something like that.
07:23:32 <Herkamire> I've played with PPC asm a little bit before. _little bit_
07:23:56 <gilbertbsd> in lisp, all you really have to do (at least for lisp1.5) is to define cons, car, cdr and cond (or some other conditional)
07:23:58 <gilbertbsd> the rest is magic.
07:24:01 <Herkamire> I think I did num->string conversion, and I printed something to standard out.
07:24:06 <gilbertbsd> I have been wondering if the same is possible of forth.
07:24:37 <gilbertbsd> eg. define the stack, do some stack manip words, do the dictionary and then voila.
07:24:46 <gilbertbsd> the rest inflates itself automagically!
07:25:21 <Herkamire> I'm doing a screwy input format that has everything already looked up in the dictionary.
07:25:35 <Jaster> Are you talking about infaleable sheep?
07:25:45 <gilbertbsd> you already have the dictionary?
07:25:49 <gilbertbsd> Jaster possibly :D
07:26:33 <Herkamire> so I just have to define a few words, and the interpret loop, and the hooks to handle the colors
07:27:10 <gilbertbsd> colors?
07:27:13 <gilbertbsd> colorforth ?
07:27:15 <gilbertbsd> eeeeeeeeeek!
07:27:57 <gilbertbsd> missing one 'u' is forgivable. But missing two 'u's ! Thats sacrilege.
07:28:15 <gilbertbsd> the next will be ltimatecolorforth and that will be even scarier!
07:35:32 <Herkamire> in the US we spell it color
07:35:36 <Herkamire> always
07:35:39 <Herkamire> colour is british
07:37:49 <gilbertbsd> And you trust Noah Webster's spelling errors?
07:38:17 <gilbertbsd> Noah though a good man, did not help improve the silliness of the english language.
07:38:22 <Herkamire> forth (adverb)  1: onward in time, place, or order <from that day forth>  2: out into notice or view <put forth leaves>
07:38:48 <Herkamire> I think color is a more sensable spelling that colour
07:39:15 <Herkamire> culler would be more sensable still, but I don't run the world :)
07:39:58 <Herkamire> or even culr for that matter
07:42:37 <gilbertbsd> kala
07:42:56 <gilbertbsd> it all started when the english, not knowing how to spell misspelled everything.
07:43:13 <gilbertbsd> And noah, also not knowing how to spell was allowed to meddle in matters related to spelling.
07:43:37 <gilbertbsd> several mango seasons later, CM misspelled a few words :D
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07:45:02 <Herkamire> CM had a good excuse :)
08:14:57 <Robert> English spelling must be the LEAST logical and consistent system of rules there is.
08:15:12 <Robert> Swedish sucks in that matter, but English is a lot worse.
08:18:14 <tathi> bah. it's not that bad.
08:18:35 <tathi> it's only about 3% inconsistent, and most of that is words that were clearly borrowed from another language.
08:18:46 <tathi> it just has a complicated set of rules
08:21:13 <Robert> Some words use french spelling, some use scandinavian, some are just randomly spelled. ;)
08:22:03 <gilbertbsd> in swedish?
08:22:09 <Robert> English.
08:22:14 <gilbertbsd> ah yes. 
08:22:20 <gilbertbsd> don't forget latin and greek.
08:22:21 <Robert> In swedish, we are inconsistent, too.
08:22:23 <gilbertbsd> and german.
08:22:38 <Robert> But we don't have THAT many of those funny frenchie spellings.
08:22:49 <Robert> Right...
08:23:22 <Robert> We do have quite a few words borrowed from other languages, but we've changed the spelling of most of them.
08:23:42 <gilbertbsd> like which words?
08:23:47 <gilbertbsd> names of people?
08:24:47 <Robert> Hmm... like, "portmonä", which has a really funny spelling in french.
08:25:02 <gilbertbsd> portmanteau
08:25:07 <Robert> Right.
08:25:12 <Robert> Or something.
08:25:33 <Robert> Things like that...
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08:47:42 <Speuler> hi
08:48:07 <gilbertbsd> hi
08:57:44 <Speuler> i can already enter forth words in bash forth, and have them executed :)
08:57:54 <gilbertbsd> wha ?
08:57:55 <gilbertbsd> bash forth?
08:57:59 <Speuler> joi
08:58:11 <Speuler> forth written as shell script
08:58:47 <Speuler> is even reasonable speed
08:58:47 <gilbertbsd> url ?
08:58:54 <Speuler> which surprises me
08:59:03 <Speuler> none yet. i can email it to you
08:59:04 <gilbertbsd> how fast is your machine Speuler?
08:59:09 <Speuler> 500 mhz
08:59:14 <gilbertbsd> and you wonder about what?
08:59:24 <Speuler> that forth as bash shell script ...
08:59:30 <Speuler> bash tends to be slow
08:59:33 <gilbertbsd> and speed something something?
09:00:03 <Speuler> i can't run sieve benchmark yet
09:01:16 <Speuler> i send you the current version if you pass me your email address
09:02:30 <Speuler> but t'is not a finished forth yet.
09:02:48 <Speuler> i mean, it does accept, find, execute and that stuff
09:03:15 <Speuler> just enough to do dictionary lookup and execute, in a loop
09:03:30 <Speuler> stack operators and the like also present
09:03:34 <Speuler> key
09:03:35 <Speuler> emit
09:03:42 <Speuler> words
09:03:43 <gilbertbsd> gilbert_aka_gilbert@yahoo.com
09:04:27 <Speuler> sent
09:06:10 <Speuler> should be evident that this is a project without any commercial potential :)
09:06:10 <gilbertbsd> thanks.
09:10:52 <gilbertbsd> alright I got it.
09:11:08 <Speuler> bug in .s      
09:11:29 <Speuler> while [ $temp -gt $sp ]    should be  ... -ge ...
09:12:06 <Speuler> i'll keep you sending more recent versions when they are ready to
09:13:05 <gilbertbsd> okay.
09:14:05 <Speuler> you can't enter a whole line now. just single words, enter, and so on
09:14:12 <Speuler> no numbers neither
09:14:47 <Speuler> "words" is a good one :)
09:21:26 <gilbertbsd> hmm on my system when I type anything it exists.
09:22:26 <gilbertbsd> what can I try with bashforth?
09:24:31 <Speuler> here
09:24:32 <Speuler> .
09:25:01 <gilbertbsd> hehe
09:25:01 <gilbertbsd> :D
09:25:03 <gilbertbsd> that worked.
09:25:09 <Speuler> words
09:25:26 <Speuler> hello
09:25:50 <Speuler> key
09:25:52 <Speuler> type
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09:27:07 <Speuler> i/o is still very rough
09:27:32 <Speuler> a stack cell can also contain a string
09:27:51 <Speuler> so, . and type are synonyms right now
09:28:04 <Speuler> emit, and type, i mean
09:28:27 <Speuler> no. . and type
09:28:40 <Speuler> emit expects a hex num on stack ...
09:28:53 <Speuler> no good functions for conversion found in bash
09:29:02 <Speuler> need to use forth for those
09:29:20 <Speuler> or code them in bash
09:30:06 <Speuler> but wordlist, execution, inner interpreter, stack etc was more important at that stage
09:39:53 <Speuler> + and * work
09:39:59 <Speuler> not in your version
09:43:32 <Speuler> - and / work
09:43:48 <gilbertbsd> is this a live update?
09:44:03 <Speuler> it improves while i am busy
09:44:13 <Speuler> that is, right now
09:44:29 <Speuler> say "when@
09:44:30 <Speuler> "
09:44:35 <Speuler> and you get the next update
09:46:12 <Speuler> mod works
09:47:28 <gilbertbsd> how do I get the next update?
09:47:35 <Speuler> i need to email
09:47:44 <gilbertbsd> ah okay.
09:47:50 <gilbertbsd> write a script :D
09:48:17 <Speuler> can't put it on forthfreaks. harddisk kapoot
09:50:03 <Speuler>  /mod works
09:53:32 <Speuler> constants  -1 0 1 2 4  true false   work
09:53:48 <Speuler> new version sent
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09:56:25 <gilbertbsd> thanks .
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10:09:33 <Speuler> 0= = added, nip works now
10:09:53 <Robert> :)
10:10:08 <Speuler> ah, the_rob
10:10:15 <Robert> Yessir!
10:10:29 <Speuler> busy bashforthing here :)
10:10:36 <Robert> Neat
10:11:44 <gilbertbsd> bashing forth
10:12:43 <Speuler> < works
10:15:57 <Kitanin> gilbert: I think you mean "Forthing Bash".
10:16:58 <Speuler> strange. bash and  (  echo $((3
10:17:10 <Speuler> strange. bash and  (  echo $((3^2))  ) behaves like xor here...
10:17:37 <Speuler> 3^4 -> 7 !!!
10:18:10 <Speuler> can someone please check against the version of bash you're running ?
10:18:30 <Speuler> ah. ok
10:18:34 <Speuler> & is and
10:18:40 <tathi> check
10:18:41 <Speuler> ^ must be xor
10:18:57 <Robert> :)
10:19:15 <Robert> Is ~ not?
10:19:38 <Speuler> it is
10:20:38 <Robert> Hmm... but how many bits does it use? Different on different systems?
10:20:54 <Speuler> should be 32 at least
10:22:12 <Speuler> or and xor invert  work
10:22:14 <Kitanin> Unless he's managed to get bash running on a 16-bit system.  :-)
10:22:30 <Kitanin> s/he's/you've/
10:22:33 <tathi> "Evaluation is done in long integers with no check for overflow, though division by 0 is trapped and flagged as an error."
10:22:43 <Speuler> 0branch is there too
10:22:48 <Kitanin> Oh.  Nevermindthen.
10:23:49 <Speuler> gilbertbsd: sent
10:24:05 <Speuler> soomebody else who wants a copy ? 
10:25:04 <Kitanin> I'm kind of interested.  :-)
10:25:23 <Speuler> i'll put you into the mailing list. email address please
10:25:36 <Kitanin> clark@compudata-systems.com
10:26:10 <Kitanin> Woohoo!  A real programming language for all these old Xenix boxen!
10:26:21 <Speuler> Kitanin: sent
10:26:41 <Speuler> yes. easy to port :)
10:27:17 <Kitanin> Right now, I'm "cross-compiling" nasm, and linking on the Xenix box.  This will be much easier.  :-D
10:27:56 <gilbertbsd> xenix?
10:28:02 <gilbertbsd> isn't that an MS incarnation?
10:28:13 <Speuler> indeed
10:28:15 <Speuler> 286
10:28:46 <Speuler> xenophobix
10:29:00 <Kitanin> Ayep.  And I'm coding multi-process serial I/O.  In assembly.  :-)
10:31:16 <Kitanin> Well, assembly heavily macroed so it looks like monochromeforth.
10:33:20 <Speuler> ?dup
10:35:14 <gilbertbsd> what do you use xenix for?
10:35:58 <Kitanin> It's the "Old and Busted" to my "New Hotness".  I have to keep it running while I do the new development.  :-)
10:37:21 <Kitanin> Speaking of "Busted"...
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10:37:36 * Kitanin beats on Xenix machine for a while...
10:37:56 <I440r> heh
10:38:00 <I440r> love it and it will love you back :)
10:38:26 * Kitanin finds the thought of being loved by a Microsoft product makes him feel all crawly inside...
10:39:13 <ianni> eahaeh
10:39:15 <Robert> >:)
10:39:50 <Kitanin> "You sure got a pretty I/O port, boy..."  <banjo music>
10:43:22 <I440r> lol
10:45:10 <Kitanin> I'd bow, but that would involve bending over.  <curtsies>
10:45:37 <Robert> Kitanin's the Forth joker...
10:47:02 <Kitanin> Although, I should say that this one isn't my fault.  I didn't even say "postpone
10:47:10 <Kitanin> [18:37] <Kitanin> Speaking of "Busted"...
10:47:11 <Kitanin> [18:37] * I440r has joined #forth
10:47:23 <I440r> eh ?
10:47:59 <Kitanin> :-)
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11:12:42 <Kitanin> My spam filter is so good, when I installed it, people stopped sending me spam.  Neat!  :-)
11:24:23 <Kitanin> >> [18:37] * Kitanin beats on a Xenix machine for a while...
11:24:24 <Kitanin> >> [18:37] <I440r> heh
11:24:24 <Kitanin> >> [18:38] <I440r> love it and it will love you back :)
11:24:24 <Kitanin> >> [18:38] * Kitanin finds the thought of being loved by a Microsoft
11:24:24 <Kitanin> >>          product makes him feel all crawly inside...
11:24:24 <Kitanin> >> [18:39] <ianni> eahaeh
11:24:26 <Kitanin> >> [18:39] <Robert> >:)
11:24:28 <Kitanin> >> [18:39] <Kitanin> "You sure got a purty I/O port, boy..."  <banjo
11:24:30 <Kitanin> >>          music>
11:24:32 <Kitanin> > 
11:24:43 <Kitanin> Sorry, wrong window.  :-)
11:24:45 <Kitanin> Hmm...  Can anyone see a difference between:
11:24:45 <Kitanin>   1) Storing TOS in a local, doing something that doesn't affect
11:24:45 <Kitanin>      the stack, then returning the value in the local to TOS; and
11:24:45 <Kitanin>   2) Just leaving the data on the stack until it's needed?
11:28:09 <tathi> yeah...1) has more things that could go wrong ;-)
11:28:29 <Kitanin> You'd think that, but for some reason, the code won't work without the local.  :-P
11:30:38 <tathi> weird
11:31:22 <Kitanin> The code in question: http://www.jwdt.com/~paysan/html/gforth.html#Advanced%20macros%20Tutorial
11:39:40 <tathi> that's frightening
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15:46:55 <I440r> tcn!
15:47:26 <tcn> hey
15:47:49 <Robert> Hi there :)
15:48:02 <Robert> HCN. Mmmmm...
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15:48:30 <I440r> what you up to tcn ?
15:48:40 <I440r> know of any jobs going anywhere ?
15:49:13 <tcn> sure, China.
15:49:27 <tcn> rofl
15:50:24 <I440r> lol
15:50:36 <I440r> i didnt know you were in china :P
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16:03:53 <I440r> out of totaly boredom /me watches judge dred :P
16:04:14 <I440r> a free pizza to anyone who can tell me who judge dred is based on :)
16:04:50 <gilbertbsd> the cartoon Judge Dredd
16:05:11 <Speuler> I440r: do you want me to put you on the bashforth mailing list ?
16:05:28 <I440r> yes. who was the cartoon judge dread based on!!!
16:05:33 <I440r> bongo sure :)
16:05:45 <Speuler> I440r: your email address please
16:06:13 <I440r> i440r mailcity com  <-- insert the missing bits :)
16:06:42 <gilbertbsd> I dunno.
16:06:50 <gilbertbsd> who was the cartoon based on ?
16:06:53 <gilbertbsd> wyatt erp?
16:07:03 <Speuler> I440r: done. when i send out a new version, it'll hit you too.
16:07:15 <I440r> cool
16:08:03 <I440r> gilbertbsd:  thats a good guess.
16:08:04 <I440r> wrong!
16:08:05 <I440r> heh
16:08:28 <I440r> the idea came from the dirty harry movies
16:09:16 <gilbertbsd> are you serious?
16:09:47 <I440r> yup
16:09:57 <gilbertbsd> judge dredd reminds me a little of robocop as well.
16:10:15 <gilbertbsd> perhaps its all that armor.
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16:16:50 <tcn> well
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