00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.02.17
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00:38:22 <ramnull> s" Feet" constant Feet
00:38:22 <ramnull> s" Inches" constant Inches
00:38:22 <ramnull> : cnvfeet ( n str -- n ) { a } Feet compare 
00:38:22 <ramnull>                                       1 = IF a 12 / ENDIF ;
00:38:22 <ramnull> 			      ;
00:38:23 <ramnull> : cnvinches ( n str -- n ) { a } Inches compare 
00:38:25 <ramnull>                                        1 = IF a 12 * ENDIF ;
00:38:27 <ramnull> 				;
00:38:29 <ramnull> Make any sense?
00:39:38 * ramnull will lurk for a while
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00:43:56 <ramnull> Hey Serg, busy?
00:44:42 <Serg_Penguin> hi
00:45:05 <Serg_Penguin> testing cd-rw drives
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05:42:20 <Robert> Serg_Penguin, hi.
05:42:42 <Robert> I lent your account to a few guys, you might want to change the password.
05:43:07 <Robert> They needed somewhere to IRC from
05:45:57 <Serg_Penguin> done
05:46:28 <Serg_Penguin> so, how can i IRC from it ?
06:17:03 <Robert> Start irssi :)
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06:49:17 <Serg_Penguin> z
06:49:42 <serg> hey Serg_Penguin !
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06:53:52 <serg> i did it !
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06:59:44 <Robert> Hah.
06:59:58 <Robert> Privet, Sergej ;)
07:00:54 <Serg_Penguin> :)
07:01:01 <Serg_Penguin> seems like running home
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07:16:48 <TheBlueWizard> hiya all
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07:42:59 <Robert> Hi :)
07:43:18 <TheBlueWizard> hiya Robert :)
07:49:51 <Klaw> any of you use qmail?
07:50:12 <TheBlueWizard> nope...sorry
07:50:22 <TheBlueWizard> not me, that is
07:50:26 <Klaw> :P
07:55:29 <Robert> I don't...
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08:25:24 <TheBlueWizard> hiya I440r!!! :)
08:36:53 <I440r> tbw!!! :)
08:37:01 <TheBlueWizard> :)
08:37:31 <I440r> whussup ?
08:37:33 <I440r> :)
08:37:38 <TheBlueWizard> how's life? today's Fed. holiday...plus DC area is heavily snowed in...hope tomorrow Fed gov't is closed ;)
08:37:56 <I440r> lol
08:38:10 <I440r> the snow is just an exscuse not to go to to work
08:38:24 <TheBlueWizard> yupyupyup :)
08:38:28 <I440r> heh
08:38:41 <I440r> it didnt snow here, it just sleeted for 10 hours or so
08:38:51 <I440r> about an inch :P
08:39:26 <TheBlueWizard> that makes a mess on roads... :P
08:40:12 <I440r> ya
08:41:45 <TheBlueWizard> here...at first it was freezing rain, then turns into heavy snowing, and this afternoon it should be a light rain...then tonight it will become cold...the news on TV said it was the sixth biggest snowfall ever to hit DC area
08:42:40 <I440r> coultnd happen to a better bunch of people 
08:42:40 <I440r> :P
08:42:55 <TheBlueWizard> heh
08:46:34 <TheBlueWizard> what's the latest news on IsForth?
08:47:19 <I440r> ive been slowly working on a memory manager for her
08:47:41 <I440r> its almost done. allocate is complete and theres only one more word left to write for "Free"
08:47:47 <I440r> then i gotta test it
08:47:52 <I440r> the free part i mean
08:47:59 <TheBlueWizard> cool
08:48:05 <I440r> oh - i sould prolly write a "reaalloc" or something
08:48:23 <I440r> 16 byte granularity instead of 4k
08:48:24 <TheBlueWizard> sounds like you're nearing the release point
08:48:42 <TheBlueWizard> realloc is nice!  but it is a bit tricky to implement
08:49:01 <TheBlueWizard> 4k is too much...16 bytes is better
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09:01:46 <TheBlueWizard> hiya I440r again
09:01:48 <I440r> fscking network cable keeps disconnecting from my laptop
09:01:49 <TheBlueWizard> hiya Kitanin
09:01:49 <I440r> grr :P
09:01:58 <TheBlueWizard> ah
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10:26:17 <I440r> tbw are you still there ?
10:27:06 <TheBlueWizard> I'm here
10:27:43 <TheBlueWizard> whassup?
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11:11:22 <TheBlueWizard> hiya Kitanin
11:35:18 <Klaw> it's 75 degrees here
11:35:21 <Klaw> blue skies
11:35:31 <Klaw> and here I am inside
11:36:49 <TheBlueWizard> nice
12:05:02 <I440r> dammit - where the heck are you ?
12:15:43 <Robert> Not on earth.
12:16:07 <Robert> 75 degress... maybe the moon right after sunrise :)
12:16:30 * Robert will NEVER accept the Farenheit temperature scale.
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12:45:30 <TheBlueWizard> hiya I440r again :P
12:45:45 <TheBlueWizard> ~cluebat I440r's ISP
12:46:44 <I440r> its not my isp
12:46:53 * TheBlueWizard watches apt walks into here as a guest, whaps I440r's ISP with a cluebat until it makes promises not to hose I440r
12:46:54 <I440r> its my network connector on my laptop
12:46:56 <TheBlueWizard> oh?
12:47:00 <I440r> if i breath it disconnects
12:47:03 <TheBlueWizard> hmm...ok
12:47:13 <TheBlueWizard> yow...that bad, eh?
12:47:19 <I440r> ya :P
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14:47:43 <TheBlueWizard> gotta go...bye all!
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15:38:33 <ramnull> Whats up?
15:59:10 <I440r> hi
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15:59:18 <I440r> ramnull is new in here ?
15:59:29 <I440r> or is that just a new nick ive not seen yet ? heh
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17:14:29 <ramnull> What's up?
17:15:20 <ramnull> Hows this look?  : addup depth tuck 0 +DO rot + LOOP ;
17:18:47 <I440r> erm rot rotates out the thrid item
17:18:51 <I440r> not the nth item
17:19:20 <ramnull> Yeah. I'm trying to preserve the depth value.
17:19:36 <ramnull> So there should be two items on the stack at the end.
17:20:29 <I440r> you lost me. what are you trying to do exactly ?
17:20:53 <ramnull> Trying to figure out how the stack works basically.
17:21:12 <ramnull> Adding up a bunch of numbers that have been pushed on the stack.
17:21:52 <I440r> how many numbers ?
17:22:18 <ramnull> Any amount. Thats what I'm using depth for.
17:22:32 <I440r> ok
17:22:36 <Fractal> ramnull : I'd do this:   : addup begin depth 1 <> while + repeat ;
17:22:45 <I440r> and you want the result and the number of numbers added ? 
17:22:48 <I440r> ok
17:22:48 <Fractal> Adds up all the numbers on the stack.
17:22:59 <Fractal> (If that is what you wanted to do)
17:23:20 <I440r> : xyzzy depth dup>r 0 do + loop r> ;
17:23:31 <I440r> you might need a dup>r 1- 0 do
17:24:14 <ramnull> Well, 5 7 6 2 gives me 24, which isnt correct.
17:24:46 <Fractal> ramnull : The one I pasted gives 20, which is corect.
17:25:20 <Fractal> I wouldn't use a do loop in this situation.
17:25:49 <ramnull> Must have had an extra number on the stack.
17:26:04 <ramnull> How would you do it?
17:26:13 <Fractal> : addup begin depth 1 <> while + repeat ;
17:26:27 * ramnull nods
17:26:47 <ramnull> But if I wanted to preserve the depth value until the end, I'd have to use rot?
17:26:57 <I440r> : z depth dup>r 1- 0 do + loop r> ;
17:26:59 <I440r> works
17:27:32 <I440r> depth >r begin .......until r> 
17:27:50 <Fractal> ramnull : You mean you want to Leave all those items on the stack?
17:28:16 <Fractal> So 7 8 2 addup .s  would give   7 8 2 17
17:28:16 <Fractal> ?
17:28:39 <ramnull> I want to use depth to control how many times the loop executes, and then use depth for a further calculation like averaging or something.
17:28:43 <I440r> no he jsut wants to have the result and the number of items added returned
17:29:36 <Fractal> ramnull Oh, well then yeah, do this   : addup dup >r begin depth 1 <> while + repeat r> ;
17:30:01 <Fractal> You'll be left with the number of items added on the top, and the sum below.
17:30:16 <Fractal> r> and >r move items from and to the return stack, respectively.
17:30:19 <I440r> no : addup depth >r begin depth 1 <> whole + repeat r> ;
17:30:30 <Fractal> Er ya, depth not dup
17:31:30 <ramnull> The tutorials said I should avoid the return stack until I've gotten the data stack figured out. :p
17:31:44 <Fractal> The return stack is another stack you can use in your words, however you have to be careful to leave the return stack as it was when you entered the word.
17:31:55 <ramnull> I see.
17:32:03 <Fractal> ramnull : Well, it would greatly simplify this problem. :)
17:32:21 <ramnull> So anything I put on the return stack has to come off before I leave the word.
17:32:32 <Fractal> Exactly.
17:32:46 <ramnull> Aaaa...I see.
17:33:05 <Fractal> ramnull : Unless you know what you're doing.
17:33:33 <Fractal> But generally you'll want to take off everything you put on.
17:33:44 <ramnull> Well, it'll be a while until I know what I'm doing. But I figure following the KISS philosophy will accelerate things.
17:33:56 <Fractal> Heh. True.
17:35:18 <ramnull> Hmmm...I'm also curious about Block files as opposed to regular Operating Sytem file access. Is there a way to use Block files on an Host system?
17:35:30 <Fractal> ramnull : Yes, but please don't. :)
17:35:36 <Fractal> Block files are almost completely obsolete.
17:35:44 <Fractal> Most modern forths support direct writing to files.
17:36:01 <ramnull> But I was told that thier faster than regular file accesses.
17:36:11 <Fractal> Ones on top of an OS, that is.
17:36:32 <Fractal> ramnull : No, they're only slightly faster.
17:36:42 <ramnull> Gotcha.
17:37:01 <ramnull> Gotta keep it "real". Heh.
17:37:05 <Fractal> And that's in the best case. Often filesystems will do clever buffering tricks which will in fact *speed up* file writes, making them faster than blocks.
17:37:19 <Fractal> :)
17:37:24 <ramnull> I see.
17:37:49 <Fractal> Out of curiosity, what tutorial are you reading?
17:37:57 <ramnull> This whole stack thing is gonna be great once I figure it out.
17:38:12 <ramnull> Actually I'm looking over several tutorials.
17:38:18 <Fractal> Oh ya, cool.
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17:38:57 <Fractal> Well yeah, the stack is a very powerful concept. Most languages use a stack to a degree, but forth definitley offers more flexibility when dealing with the stack.
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17:39:38 <ramnull> Reading Real-Time Forth at the moment.
17:39:46 <Fractal> Oh ya...
17:40:15 <ramnull> Also got Nobles "Forth Primer".
17:40:44 <ramnull> And I've been reading over Phil Koopmans web pages.
17:40:56 <Fractal> Cool. Well the most important concepts in forth are probably the dictionary and the stack.
17:41:25 <ramnull> Is the dictionary easier to use or faster than straight memory accesses?
17:41:55 <Fractal> ramnull : No, the dictionary is a method for finding locations of memory *at compile time*.
17:42:09 <Fractal> When the program is running, it directly addresses those pieces of memory.
17:42:09 <ramnull> I'm primarily used to Wirth languages.(Pascal, Ada, Oberon, etc...)
17:42:26 <ramnull> Aaah, I see.
17:42:35 <Fractal> Heh. Well forth is radically different from those languages.
17:42:50 <ramnull> Sort of like an embedded linker?
17:43:08 <Fractal> ramnull : Sory of, yeah. Sort of like an incremental compiler and linker in one.
17:43:34 <Fractal> In order to understand the dictionary, you must understand forth "threads".
17:43:40 <ramnull> I can use it to create self-modifying code.
17:43:56 <Fractal> ramnull : Yes, you certainly could.
17:44:17 <Fractal> In fact parts of the forth kernel are self modifying. DEFERed words are the most common example.
17:44:30 <ramnull> I imagine forth threads are to Unix threads as Ada tasks are to Unix threads. Entirely different ideas.
17:45:10 <Fractal> Possibly. I'm not sure what an ada task is, but yes: forth threads are very different from unix threads.
17:45:32 <Fractal> Take a word like square.  : square dup * ;
17:46:00 <ramnull> Well, an Ada task links with the Native "threading" code(if it exists) or else uses it's own inherent tasking scheme, which may or may not work.
17:46:05 <Fractal> Once compiled, that word takes exactly 3 words of memory. (enough for 3 addresses).
17:46:30 <Fractal> ramnull : Er, well forth threads have nothing to do with multitasking.
17:46:52 <ramnull> I know. Neither does Adas. Heh.
17:47:05 <Fractal> Square would look like this:   [address of DUP][address of *][address of EXIT]
17:47:07 <Fractal> Oh. :)
17:47:16 <ramnull> A forth thread maintains seperate dictionaries?
17:47:32 <ramnull> i.e. One for each thread?
17:47:50 <Fractal> Er, not exactly...
17:48:06 <Fractal> Once you become more familiar with forth, check out this page. Read the "Moving Forth" articles.
17:48:08 <Fractal> www.zetetics.com/bj/papers/
17:48:17 <Fractal> It explains forth threads well.
17:48:18 * ramnull nods
17:48:23 <ramnull> I'll do that.
17:48:34 <Fractal> OK, cool. I'll be back later. :)
17:48:37 <Fractal> Good luck.
17:48:41 <ramnull> Laters then. Thanks.
17:49:08 <ramnull> I wonder if theres a way to make Forth support seperate compilation.
17:50:22 <ramnull> Gotta go practice. Be back around 3:30am, after work.
17:50:34 <ramnull> Third shift sucks ass.
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20:19:11 <Speuler> g'd morning
20:22:47 <Speuler> my shellscript-forth just successfully executed the first forth word 
20:23:06 <Speuler> bash-forth :)
20:23:37 <Speuler> nop nop nop  lit 10 sec  bye   
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22:34:30 <serg> Ñ ÐÉÛÕ ÐÏ-ÒÕÓÓËÉ !
22:34:56 <Serg_Penguin> âñ¸ ÿñíî, ïðîáëåìû ñ êîäèðîâêîé...
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