00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.02.14 00:03:02 what about forth > asm source "metacompiler" ? 00:03:07 good or bad idea ? 00:04:29 Ehm. 00:04:32 No idea :) 00:06:31 i got a fixed idea on Forth OS :))) 00:07:02 Yay ;) 00:07:50 but to be truly Forth OS, even it's asm parts should be ASM'ed by Forth asm 00:18:21 --- quit: flyfly ("using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.2.1") 00:25:24 whadda u code or plan 2 code ? 00:34:47 --- join: onetom (~tom@novtan.bio.u-szeged.hu) joined #forth 00:48:11 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 00:51:52 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 01:29:38 --- quit: Kitanin (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:40:25 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 02:11:56 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 02:29:09 --- join: Phactorial (~Phactoria@212.46.37.100) joined #forth 02:29:42 Phactorial: got interested ? 02:30:00 Serg_Penguin: No, just reading some FORTH code now 02:30:40 Serg_Penguin: Does isforth work under FreeBSD? anyone working on a port? 02:32:33 isforth has some code under freebsd folder, but AFAIK dont work under freebsd 02:34:24 Serg_Penguin: How broke? 02:34:52 Basically, it looks like just chaning some syscalls and the interfacing to, that's al 02:35:12 Serg_Penguin: and it probably does work under FreeBSD, LBE 02:35:12 dinno try 02:35:31 install linux compatibility 02:37:43 [samy@chucky ~/downloads/isforth-1.10b] brandelf -f3 kernel.com 02:37:43 [samy@chucky ~/downloads/isforth-1.10b] ./kernel.com 02:37:43 ok 02:37:43 Jibber Jibber ? 02:37:47 It works fine 02:37:57 Serg_Penguin: Have you looked into getting the FreeBSD port working? 02:38:10 [samy@chucky ~/downloads/isforth-1.10b] ./kernel.com 02:38:10 ok 02:38:10 ; Segmentation fault (core dumped) 02:45:11 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 02:47:36 Robert: You ever look at a port? 02:49:24 A port? 02:49:32 What do you mean? 02:50:36 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 02:50:55 wb serg 02:51:12 Sorry Robert 02:51:26 Phactorial: ? 02:51:47 Robert: I mean, getting a native version for FreeBSD up 02:52:01 --- join: Kitanin (~clark@SCF61185.ab.hsia.telus.net) joined #forth 02:53:34 Native version of what? 02:54:40 Of isforth 02:54:42 god damnit 02:54:44 ;) 02:55:02 Ah. 02:55:07 Is there any? 02:55:26 No 02:55:27 I thought it didn't work on FreeBSD, yet. 02:55:29 Heh. 02:55:37 Well, I haven't. 02:55:37 I am saying someone should finish it off 02:55:40 Shouldn't be too difficult 02:55:41 Ah. 02:55:44 It works under FreeBSD though Robert 02:55:47 Well... You do it. 02:55:50 [samy@chucky ~/downloads/isforth-1.10b] brandelf -f3 kernel.com 02:55:50 [samy@chucky ~/downloads/isforth-1.10b] ./kernel.com 02:55:50 ok 02:55:53 nah 02:55:57 isforth is too early at the moment 02:56:11 Aw. 03:08:29 --- quit: Serg_Penguin ("4 reboot") 03:13:58 --- nick: skylan_ -> skylan 03:15:24 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 03:30:54 --- join: mur (jukka@baana-62-165-185-224.phnet.fi) joined #forth 03:31:14 --- quit: ChanServ (Shutting Down) 03:31:54 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #forth 03:31:54 --- mode: leguin.freenode.net set +o ChanServ 03:31:54 --- mode: ChanServ set +l 83 03:36:04 Serg_Penguin, sergei penguin, are you there? 03:52:09 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 03:59:15 I am mur! 04:02:07 ? 04:02:41 /whois mur mur: is an identified user 04:04:00 --- quit: Kitanin (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:36:33 --- join: flyfly (~marekb@mail.melzer.cz) joined #forth 04:57:21 --- quit: Phactorial ("Client Exiting") 05:19:12 --- join: Speuler (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba4739.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth 05:34:05 --- quit: Speuler ("Client Exiting") 05:58:37 --- join: Speuler (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba4739.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth 06:02:46 --- join: Kitanin (~clark@SCF61185.ab.hsia.telus.net) joined #forth 06:05:01 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@wsip68-15-54-54.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 06:21:21 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 06:21:36 re Serg_Penguin 06:22:14 hi 06:22:47 i hardly understand ur ideas 06:22:51 :) 06:23:00 in your game , what are : 06:23:04 1) goals 06:23:17 2) freedoms, or possible choices 06:23:40 3) barriers, any obstacles , enemies, difficulties to overcome 06:23:43 ? 06:23:56 1. there are no goals, it is like simcity, except you rival with other people in virtual world 06:24:01 no AI players 06:24:09 3. other players 06:24:52 2. going to new domain and getting tools, material, spells/skills? and see new kind of pictures or text 06:24:56 and modifying them 06:25:03 creating new from old matrial 06:25:22 perhaps 3. other players could kill each other with tools / weapons 06:26:01 did that help bit? 06:28:00 got fuzzbuzz in mind :)) kinda like distributed Ultima via port 80 ? 06:28:16 w/ different rulez on diff servers ? 06:29:23 are the servers created specifically 4 game ? or unsuspected ones are used as some kind of random seed ? 06:29:35 ERR unsuspecting 06:30:09 " creating new from old matrial" _will_ need progging 06:30:52 like i took a piece of paper and made "paper pigeon", and i need 2 code damn hi math 4 flitemodel 06:31:10 are players ready 4 this ? 06:32:14 Serg_Penguin, no no 06:32:27 i guess it waould be like ultima (i have not played it) 06:32:31 but not via port 80 06:32:41 the http sites were just resources 06:32:50 you coudl enter new url 06:32:55 and then you woudl be able to gather resources 06:33:21 if you didn't youhad to become expert of some field or just wander :) 06:34:07 uhm 06:34:09 scenario: 06:34:22 player tells "go domain www.linux.org" 06:34:45 bam you are there. someone has visited already and it has something 06:34:58 all tools and weapons and such have been collected be others 06:35:15 but it may have people there who can help you or talk to you 06:35:35 someone may have built something new from pictuers and text 06:35:58 player 24 has stolen microsoft logo from msn.net and brought it there 06:36:19 then you say "go domain www.notyetvisited.net" 06:36:27 and bang it will be added on map 06:37:03 and generator calculates and adds new tools weapons, food, text and pictures depending what the site contained and how the algorithm was created 06:37:34 once you arrive you start collecting tools 06:37:48 so what can be made out of, say, GTA3 screenshot or "threaded code" picture ? 06:37:49 there were some people on the edge of the map and once new territory is created 06:38:00 they come and try to get some of the tools and such for themselves 06:38:22 how can one decide what of two is "better" ? 06:38:28 Serg_Penguin, players can be very innovative 06:38:37 no need 06:38:40 the pictures are just material 06:38:48 fill on the virtual world 06:39:20 hm.. perhaps text and pictures coudl be converted to random materia, which experienced people coudl turn into tools and wepons 06:40:43 so why need sites as random seed ? 06:41:00 soundcard of gameserver + mic listening 2 noices.... 06:41:41 hmm 06:41:56 if you use websites as seed, it woudl increase the intrest 06:42:04 people woudl like to see what is at some urls 06:42:11 and people coudl create new contents 06:42:36 if i know 2 urls and dunno how 2 compare them in terms of game, how can i choose ? at random ? 06:43:27 you can go to both 06:43:32 try and see if they exist 06:43:47 if no one has visited them you are lucky and get more tools and all 06:43:57 but if someone have visited, tehy can be empty 06:44:07 or have new contents - like bitmaps brought elsewhere 06:44:10 or text 06:44:23 or signs or people doing services for money 06:44:25 or tools 06:45:10 --- quit: Serg_Penguin ("reboot") 06:52:16 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 06:53:04 * Kitanin pokes his connection. 06:54:44 Serg_Penguin, what do you think? 06:55:43 * Serg_Penguin blows his head by HPVA to get rid of buzzing flies in it 06:56:22 at least it is not old idea :) 06:58:27 --- quit: flyfly (Remote closed the connection) 07:02:35 Serg_Penguin, sooo... are you interested in such game? :) 07:03:42 maybe will play but not write :(( 07:03:43 --- quit: Kitanin (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:04:23 --- join: Kitanin (~clark@SCF61185.ab.hsia.telus.net) joined #forth 07:07:22 too complicated? 07:13:51 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 08:49:13 mur, I think you shouldn't play with otherpeople's webservers 08:49:58 I like the idea of a world with a physics engine, and some substance that you can shape and program or something 08:57:49 no no, not playing with webservers 08:57:56 it woudl be like normal browser 08:58:01 it woudl read the page contents only once 08:58:19 but yes i know it might cause a bit trouble 09:04:03 hmm.. well it coudl then only show coordinates on map 09:04:07 and get resources 09:04:21 not show url 09:04:24 domain name 09:04:35 (or it coudl be optional in server compilation) 09:16:50 --- join: hp48nik (xru52729fj@1Cust161.tnt4.vancouver.bc.da.uu.net) joined #forth 09:20:10 --- part: hp48nik left #forth 09:43:11 --- join: gilbertbsd (~knoppix@67.97.122.120) joined #forth 09:44:09 hello jillpert 09:44:16 hi murr 09:46:51 mur what do you guys do on this day? 09:47:34 i designed game idea for serg penguin but he didn't quite like it (or it was too hard to develope) 09:47:37 now i'm doing graphics 09:47:39 nothgn really 09:50:37 so february 14th is of no significance? 09:50:45 --- join: ramnull (~nicad@12-241-145-39.client.attbi.com) joined #forth 09:50:54 What's up? 09:51:08 I dunno. some text I typed earlier and now your question :D 09:51:27 Alright. I'll take your word for it. 09:51:31 Heh. 09:51:56 I'm curious...I'm a Froth newbie and... 09:52:03 so am I. 09:52:08 :D 09:52:41 I was wondering how does Forth actually implement the stack? As a linked list? An array? Does it use the actual "Push" and "Pop" procedures on the processor? 09:52:54 gilbertbsd, nah 09:53:15 i dont se why it shoud be special day 09:53:26 ramnull same as the processor stuff. 09:53:27 feelings should be show all the time 09:53:39 I hear the dictionary is implemented as a doubly linked list though. 09:53:50 mur to remind rotten bastards to be nice. 09:53:52 :) 09:54:21 i understand the mass similarity effect easing telling about feelings 09:54:24 gilbertbsd: So it uses the actual Push and Pop processor instructions. 09:54:47 sure . 09:54:53 look here : http://dec.bournemouth.ac.uk/forth/forth.html 09:55:01 * ramnull nods 09:55:03 * mur found out today he is reactive person 09:55:09 i'm fighting against my own feelings 09:55:14 it sounds terrible 09:55:18 10% of people are such 09:55:32 or i think i am 09:55:40 While I was playing with the GForth interactive compiler, I started getting a feeling of Common Lisp deja vu. That's why I was curious. 09:56:27 common lisp de ja vu? 09:56:50 gilbertbsd: Well, you know what common lisp is? 09:56:55 Yes I do. 09:57:12 A correctable speech defect. 09:57:13 ;) 09:57:32 mur was it _the_ very first time you found out>? 09:58:00 dont paste from emacs doctor :D 09:58:20 gilbertbsd: Well, it was sort of like that. (x (y z) h). Going into the stack. 09:58:45 mur what should I use then? 09:59:15 Hmmm...I outta write a Lisp interpreter on top of GForth. 09:59:23 can you write a lisp interpreter? 09:59:51 gilbertbsd: Suppose I could make a whole interactive compiler, but that would be overkill for me. 10:00:15 gilbertbsd: And take too damn much time. 10:01:08 ramnull I tried writing a lisp interpreter in python. 10:01:12 it crashed : 10:01:13 | 10:01:26 Lisp1.5 it was ... 10:01:32 Somebody already did that anyways. 10:01:46 yes but it was for pedagogical purposes. 10:01:58 ramnull someone already learnt to ride a bicycle too ;) 10:02:04 but I benefit from learning how-to :D 10:02:08 Heh. 10:02:22 gilbertbsd, hmm 10:02:33 own forth hardcoded doctor :) 10:03:12 I cant just copy someone else. I always gotta try and be clever and come up with something different. Hence the Forth-Lisp Compiler brainfart. 10:03:12 --- quit: Kitanin (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:03:52 how would you go about writing a lisp in forth? 10:04:23 for python I started with: a list is a two element array whose car is the first element and whose cdr is the second element. 10:04:50 gilbertbsd: Not sure yet. Once you got car, cdr, cons, you've already won half the battle. 10:04:52 so i had car(pair) = pair[0] ; cdr(pair) = pair[1] 10:05:08 and cons = [car,cdr]. 10:05:21 [] is an array in python. 10:06:01 I also tried re-writing it in scheme but I couldn't pull it off. 10:06:13 I had lots of trouble with pair and atom 10:06:29 gilbertbsd: Suppose you could have cons push everything on the stack. 10:07:57 gilbertbsd: I'm just guessing, but it would require some creative juggling of the return stack. 10:08:05 a two element array isn't too hard though. 10:08:08 it should be ... 10:08:13 drum roll please. 10:08:27 ttttttttttt... 10:08:29 create pair 2 cell alot 10:08:34 :) 10:08:52 s/cell/cells 10:09:22 Yeah, but I'm thinking there might be a way to do it just using the stack. 10:09:59 but without the linked list you cannot have lisp. 10:10:17 --- join: tathi (~josh@wsip68-15-54-54.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 10:10:45 gilbertbsd: True. Unless you have multiple stacks, which COULD be considered a linked list. 10:11:45 forth has two stacks. 10:11:51 is 2 multiple enough? 10:11:53 gilbertbsd: Just return the address to the next stack. 10:12:21 gilbertbsd: 2 is plenty for Forth. 10:12:44 gilbertbsd: But for Lisp, you'd need to generate stacks on the fly. 10:12:47 this page seems to have pointers: http://www-personal.umich.edu/~williams/archive/forth/forth.html 10:13:59 Heh...you'd have a stack of stacks. 10:14:02 --- join: Kitanin (~clark@SCF61185.ab.hsia.telus.net) joined #forth 10:15:22 brb 10:15:25 --- part: ramnull left #forth 10:20:31 --- quit: Herkamire ("leaving") 10:20:33 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@wsip68-15-54-54.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 10:23:04 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 10:32:23 --- nick: mur -> MUR|baking 10:57:35 --- join: I440r (~mark4@ip209-183-83-36.ts.indy.net) joined #forth 11:04:36 i440 why is string handling such a convoluted process? 11:07:31 gilbert: What portion of string handling are we talking here? Basic operations, collating... 11:08:05 creating, splicing, appending, initializing etc. 11:08:21 its not as straightforward as it is for arrays of numbers. 11:11:09 Mostly, because string operations frequently change the amount of space required. 11:16:05 alright. 11:16:10 i'll keep that in mind. 11:16:12 gtg 11:16:18 --- quit: gilbertbsd ("Client Exiting") 11:18:11 * Kitanin watches the printer play 52-pickup with the text he's sending to it. 11:21:27 Is it too much to ask that my printer print line 2 after line 1, but before line 3? 11:31:52 i doubt your printer is more intelligent than me.. what do you mean? :) 11:32:29 ah 11:32:32 now i unmderstnd :) 11:32:37 sorry :) 11:33:00 --- nick: MUR|baking -> mur 11:36:31 It's printing the second third of the page, then the first third, then the third third. And this is "lpr foo.txt". Thehell? 11:38:55 * Herkamire laughs at mur for being stupider than our printer 12:32:19 * mur prints page 12:33:05 Showoff. 12:36:56 it is test page 12:37:15 it was postscript page, the logo is upside down and mirrored. 13:03:51 --- quit: Kitanin (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 13:06:21 --- join: Kitanin (~clark@SCF61185.ab.hsia.telus.net) joined #forth 13:24:33 --- quit: ianni (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 13:24:33 --- quit: ChanServ (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 13:24:33 --- quit: skylan (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 13:24:33 --- quit: fridge (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 13:24:33 --- quit: Soap` (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 13:24:34 --- quit: sma (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 13:24:34 --- quit: OrngeTide (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 13:24:34 --- quit: Robert (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 13:24:34 --- quit: Herkamire (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 13:24:34 --- quit: Speuler (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 13:24:34 --- quit: mur (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 13:24:34 --- quit: onetom (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 13:24:36 --- quit: Kitanin (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 13:24:36 --- quit: I440r (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 13:26:03 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #forth 13:26:03 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@wsip68-15-54-54.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 13:26:03 --- join: Speuler (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba4739.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth 13:26:03 --- join: mur (jukka@baana-62-165-185-224.phnet.fi) joined #forth 13:26:03 --- join: onetom (~tom@novtan.bio.u-szeged.hu) joined #forth 13:26:03 --- join: skylan (sjh@Rockcliffe29.tbaytel.net) joined #forth 13:26:03 --- join: fridge (meldrum@zipperii.zip.com.au) joined #forth 13:26:03 --- join: Soap` (~flop@202-0-42-22.cable.paradise.net.nz) joined #forth 13:26:03 --- join: sma (stephenma@ashd174qy22og.bc.hsia.telus.net) joined #forth 13:26:03 --- join: OrngeTide (orange@65.19.141.250) joined #forth 13:26:03 --- join: Robert (~snofs@h138n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #forth 13:26:03 --- mode: leguin.freenode.net set +o ChanServ 13:26:26 --- quit: ChanServ (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 13:26:26 --- quit: sma (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 13:26:26 --- quit: Soap` (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 13:26:26 --- quit: fridge (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 13:26:27 --- quit: OrngeTide (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 13:26:27 --- quit: Robert (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 13:26:27 --- quit: skylan (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 13:26:27 --- quit: onetom (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 13:26:27 --- quit: Herkamire (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 13:26:28 --- quit: Speuler (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 13:26:28 --- quit: mur (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 13:26:31 --- join: ianni (ian@inpuj.net) joined #forth 13:26:37 --- join: Kitanin (~clark@SCF61185.ab.hsia.telus.net) joined #forth 13:26:37 --- join: I440r (~mark4@ip209-183-83-36.ts.indy.net) joined #forth 13:27:00 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #forth 13:27:00 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@wsip68-15-54-54.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 13:27:00 --- join: Speuler (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba4739.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth 13:27:00 --- join: mur (jukka@baana-62-165-185-224.phnet.fi) joined #forth 13:27:00 --- join: onetom (~tom@novtan.bio.u-szeged.hu) joined #forth 13:27:00 --- join: skylan (sjh@Rockcliffe29.tbaytel.net) joined #forth 13:27:00 --- join: fridge (meldrum@zipperii.zip.com.au) joined #forth 13:27:00 --- join: Soap` (~flop@202-0-42-22.cable.paradise.net.nz) joined #forth 13:27:00 --- join: sma (stephenma@ashd174qy22og.bc.hsia.telus.net) joined #forth 13:27:00 --- join: OrngeTide (orange@65.19.141.250) joined #forth 13:27:00 --- join: Robert (~snofs@h138n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #forth 13:27:00 --- mode: leguin.freenode.net set +o ChanServ 13:36:54 'evening 13:37:55 plenty of tuts here : http://webwareindex.com/tutorials/ 13:39:29 tut tut 13:42:27 http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ForthCommunity 13:44:30 "An unusually large number of newcomers to the language immediately jump into writing their own Forth systems, or least jump into the planning stages of doing so. This is something I've never seen with another language." 13:49:08 http://www.phact.org/e/forth.htm 13:50:00 That's how I learnt Forth, in case vsomeone did forget that :) 13:50:11 er.. 13:50:19 That sentence was fucked up. 13:51:10 FOO FOOF OO 13:52:51 http://leapster.org/linoleum/ 13:53:05 * Speuler is cleaning up his bookmarks 13:54:45 oh oh again those dirty forth pages? 13:54:53 :input :output definations 13:54:55 yak! 13:54:56 ;) 13:56:54 reimporting the useful ones into another browser 14:22:02 --- quit: Herkamire ("leaving") 14:42:12 * Kitanin has his groove harshed by strange locals behaviour... 16:03:08 --- quit: Kitanin (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 16:20:35 --- quit: Soap` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 16:26:03 --- quit: I440r (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 17:18:35 --- quit: mur ("MUR!") 18:00:37 --- join: I440r (~mark4@ip209-183-83-36.ts.indy.net) joined #forth 18:03:08 --- join: Kitanin (~clark@SCF61185.ab.hsia.telus.net) joined #forth 18:46:43 --- quit: I440r (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 19:13:28 --- quit: Kitanin (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 20:14:56 --- quit: Speuler (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 20:24:04 --- join: Speuler (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba46ff.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth 20:57:53 --- join: Kitanin (~clark@SCF61185.ab.hsia.telus.net) joined #forth 21:13:42 --- quit: ChanServ (Shutting Down) 21:14:38 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #forth 21:14:38 --- mode: leguin.freenode.net set +o ChanServ 21:14:38 --- mode: ChanServ set +l 83 22:03:35 --- quit: Kitanin (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 23:56:29 --- join: Soap` (~flop@202-0-42-22.cable.paradise.net.nz) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/03.02.14