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10:04:53 <gilbertbsd> hmmm. standalone programs from forth?
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10:07:01 <gilbertbsd> there you are.
10:07:05 <gilbertbsd> or are you  there i440?
10:07:17 * Kitanin beats Windows Media Player into submission.
10:07:41 <I440r> no :)
10:07:41 <I440r> heh
10:07:54 <gilbertbsd> good.
10:07:58 <I440r> whussup ?
10:08:05 <gilbertbsd> is there a way of writing programs in forth and making them executable?
10:08:14 <gilbertbsd> independent of forth that is?
10:08:27 <I440r> what do you mean?
10:08:33 <I440r> yes and no
10:08:39 <I440r> you can turnkey
10:08:53 <I440r> lets say you write a program and the word to run that program is "foo"
10:09:04 <I440r> in isforth you can do this
10:09:04 <I440r> ' foo is quit
10:09:10 <I440r> turnkey foo
10:09:23 <I440r> just make sure that the exit point of the word foo is a "bye"
10:09:40 <I440r> you will have a program file called foo now
10:09:40 <I440r> ./foo
10:09:42 <gilbertbsd> oh okay.
10:09:46 <I440r> should work
10:09:49 <gilbertbsd> do you know the openboot forth?
10:10:11 <I440r> i know of. im not familiar with it
10:10:39 <gilbertbsd> is this possible with all forths?
10:11:20 <I440r> thers probably a similar mechanism in most forths
10:11:26 <I440r> in fpc you do
10:11:32 <I440r> ' foo is default 
10:11:32 <I440r> turnkey foo
10:11:57 <I440r> you can do that in isforth too but i suggest not patching default unless you know what your doing, it has some important stuff to do
10:12:10 <I440r> so i made quit a defered word - patch into that instead
10:14:59 <gilbertbsd> I wanna write an asm for pedagogical reasons.
10:15:13 <gilbertbsd> will forth be a good thingamabob to start with?
10:15:50 <gilbertbsd> ... to write in?
10:16:56 <I440r> hrm
10:17:07 <I440r> you want to write an assembler ?
10:17:13 <I440r> for x86 ?
10:17:39 <gilbertbsd> sparc
10:17:51 <I440r> aha
10:17:51 <gilbertbsd> I feel a little sick :)
10:18:06 <I440r> heh
10:18:23 <I440r> well, writing an assembler in forth is not a trivial task but its well suited to the problem
10:18:23 <gilbertbsd> I don't know if its gonna be a useful thing in anyway.
10:18:47 <gilbertbsd> it will be a good learning experience don't you think?
10:19:53 <I440r> yes
10:20:12 <I440r> you going to use isforth to do it ??? :)
10:20:17 <I440r> is it going to be a stand alone assembler ?
10:20:29 <gilbertbsd> I'm gonna see if i can make it standalone.
10:20:37 <gilbertbsd> but does isforth run on the sparc yet?
10:20:44 <gilbertbsd> I have solaris on it currently.
10:20:45 <I440r> its possible
10:22:12 <I440r> no - isforth runs on linux/x86 only
10:22:18 <I440r> wont even run on bsd/x86 yet
10:22:57 <gilbertbsd> how would I go about writing an asm in forth :D
10:23:58 <I440r> erm - when you figure it out come tell me all about it :)
10:24:03 <I440r> heh
10:24:14 <Robert> Evening, gilbertbsd + I440r :)
10:24:18 <gilbertbsd> hi robert.
10:24:28 * I440r hides
10:24:28 <gilbertbsd> but it would be similar to writing an asm in C won't it?
10:24:35 <Robert> Bah
10:24:41 <Robert> No, that's why you use Forth.
10:24:50 <Robert> Because it's easier to use than C :P
10:25:14 <I440r> not realy, its just more beautyful than c
10:25:26 <I440r> c is very easy to use. thats part of its problem
10:25:42 <gilbertbsd> how is C very easy to use?
10:25:49 <gilbertbsd> is forth harder to use for the purpose?
10:26:08 <Robert> I440r: Not really.. just think of the whole assembler business
10:26:13 <I440r> every moron and his autistic brother can code c. not very well, but they can code it
10:26:28 <Kitanin> Oh, you've met my cow orkers.  :-)
10:26:29 <Robert> I440r: I mean, stuff like  : NOP $90 , ;  is hell of a lot easier than parsing stuff with CV
10:26:34 <Robert> C, that is.
10:26:41 <gilbertbsd> kitanin your Cowworkers?
10:26:45 <I440r> assembler is easier than c. assembler is easier than forth
10:26:47 <gilbertbsd> _cow_ ?
10:27:24 <gilbertbsd> how did the asm in forth get there?
10:27:26 <Kitanin> gilbert: Joking reference to "coworkers".
10:27:34 <gilbertbsd> hehehe. 
10:27:40 <gilbertbsd> kitanin how do you use forth at work?
10:28:12 <Kitanin> Right now, primarily as a scripting language (ficl).
10:28:41 <gilbertbsd> and how do you find it?
10:29:33 <Kitanin> It's working wonderfully.  And sooooooo much easier to interface to than Python, which was my second choice.  :-)
10:30:40 <gilbertbsd> are you serious?
10:30:50 <gilbertbsd> this is sacrilege. The python charmers will gag!
10:31:19 <Kitanin> Have you compared ficl's C interface with Python's?  :-)
10:31:26 <Kitanin> Let them gag.
10:33:27 * Kitanin gags a Python programmer.
10:36:54 <gilbertbsd> give me ideas for writing an asm in forth .
10:37:14 <gilbertbsd> I've never done any such thing omigod
10:40:15 * gilbertbsd watches the blank screen carefully
10:41:07 <rafe__> gilbertbsd: you got the intel docs?
10:41:13 --- nick: rafe__ -> rafe
10:41:17 <gilbertbsd> no sparc.
10:41:22 <gilbertbsd> the sparc docs.
10:41:37 <gilbertbsd> I have the whole instruction set :)
10:41:41 <gilbertbsd> all 10 of them.
10:41:54 <rafe> lol & that the op codes are?
10:41:56 <gilbertbsd> no. all 6 pages of the instruction set.
10:42:13 <gilbertbsd> there aren't too many instructions.
10:42:13 <rafe> s/that/what/
10:42:24 <gilbertbsd> yeah it has the opcodes as well.
10:42:51 <rafe> ok you're 60% done
10:43:11 <gilbertbsd> hehe. the remaining 40 which will take 30 years of my life?
10:43:15 <gilbertbsd> how do i go about that.
10:43:26 <rafe> add needs to push the add w/o any addressing info
10:43:59 <rafe> then the reg1 will will pop that & or in reg direct mode for reg1
10:44:11 <rafe> so add reg1, 10 ;
10:44:26 <rafe> oops it's forth so no comma
10:44:36 <rafe> so add reg1 10
10:44:59 <rafe> push add w/o addressing mode
10:45:20 <rafe> reg1 pop add & or the reg1 immediate
10:45:29 <rafe> push
10:45:37 <gilbertbsd> rafe have you written an asm?
10:45:47 <rafe> yes much
10:46:03 <rafe> but older stuff not this new fangled contraptions
10:46:16 <rafe> dang'it
10:46:20 <gilbertbsd> tell me about them .
10:46:31 * gilbertbsd clears 5 hrs off his non-existent calendar.
10:46:55 <rafe> way back when gramps used to do systems work on novas & eclipes DG equipment
10:47:09 <gilbertbsd> hehehe
10:47:21 <rafe> now he got back into it using masm ... which is total crap as an asm
10:48:05 <rafe> anywho don't be intimidated by asm it's not hard but it is picyune
10:48:35 <gilbertbsd> whats a good language to write asm in? do you think forth is a candidate?
10:48:55 <gilbertbsd> Personally I think it should be done in oct directly on the terminal :)
10:49:03 <rafe> well im new to 4th BUT i'd have to say definetly YES!!
10:49:26 <I440r> asm is good :)
10:49:29 <rafe> hell you just need 2 keys a 0 & a 1 :)
10:49:59 <gilbertbsd> thats right. which brings me baaaaack to my point of layers of languages being pseudocode.
10:50:09 <gilbertbsd> oct, is pseudocode for binary :)
10:50:21 <gilbertbsd> formal languages in this case.
10:50:35 <rafe> & binary is pseudo code for patch board programming :D
10:50:53 <gilbertbsd> you understand!
10:51:04 <gilbertbsd> and asm is psuedocode for oct!
10:51:28 <rafe> yes BUT there's still a 1:1 corespondence
10:51:42 * gilbertbsd nods.
10:51:59 <rafe> onece you get to c , forth etc it all goes k'aflewie
10:52:53 <rafe> stay close to the metal sonny & you'll keep it lean fast & efficient
10:53:09 * rafe slips into gramps mode
10:53:32 <gilbertbsd> :)
10:53:48 <Kitanin> While I'll agree with you about C, I think (most) FORTH maintains the correspondence.
10:54:22 <rafe> not that i'm against 4th (obviously) but no i disagree
10:54:49 <rafe> it's what you choose to abstract that's important & forth thend to get it right
10:54:59 <rafe> or more right
10:55:14 <rafe> s/thend/tends/
10:56:08 <rafe> even the metal hugging colorforth has abstractions... just fewer of them
10:56:23 <gilbertbsd> the pseudocodeness of it all :)
10:56:29 <rafe> lol
10:57:25 <gilbertbsd> okay. do I need to know the elf header stuff to make this stuff executable elsewhere?
10:57:34 <Kitanin> Nothing wrong with layers.  Cake has layers, and cake is good.  :-)
10:57:50 <rafe> Kitanin: but too much makes you fat
10:57:56 <rafe> :)
10:58:19 <rafe> glibert: yes it you want it to be standalone
10:58:31 <gilbertbsd> okay.
10:58:32 <rafe> o/s has to know how to load it
10:58:37 <gilbertbsd> the next thing.
11:00:05 <gilbertbsd> I have the opcodes/instruction set, what am I missing?
11:00:26 <rafe> elf file layout if you want stand alone asm progs
11:00:39 <gilbertbsd> I'll get that in a jiffy.
11:00:56 <gilbertbsd> ah what about all those things on parsing and such?
11:01:07 <Herkamire> I440r: do you really think asm is easier than forth? or did I read something out of context
11:01:10 <rafe> KISS my lad which is why 4th
11:01:17 <gilbertbsd> okay.
11:01:32 <rafe> 1 word 1 thing to do
11:01:43 <gilbertbsd> I mean for the finished product.
11:01:53 <rafe> also: important grow this program don't write it entire
11:02:05 <gilbertbsd> yeah I want a minimal skeletal thingamabob.
11:02:33 <rafe> too much too soon & you'll give up ... if you anything like me
11:02:41 * rafe hope gil isn't insulted
11:02:55 <gilbertbsd> :) I'm not insulted at all.
11:03:10 <gilbertbsd> this guy seemed to need a whole lot though: http://www.users.qwest.net/~eballen1/sparc_asm.html
11:03:24 <rafe> looking
11:05:11 <rafe> yes tho it looks like he spend much time before posting
11:05:41 <gilbertbsd> he needed things like flex, yacc, gdb, ln and such.
11:06:14 <rafe> also you can do single pass if you use 4th right as an interpreter
11:06:20 <rafe> too much fat
11:06:58 <rafe> flex & yacc are useful? i haven't had a need yet. maybe in the future
11:07:05 <gilbertbsd> how do I find out about single/multi pass stuff?
11:07:23 <gilbertbsd> at this point I am beginning to doubt my sanity.
11:07:33 * gilbertbsd threatens to streak.
11:07:42 <rafe> ahhh my eyes
11:07:52 <rafe> my eyes!
11:08:01 <gilbertbsd> alright I will not streak.
11:08:13 <gilbertbsd> you need some ummm liquid for your eyes?
11:08:15 <gilbertbsd> water perhaps?
11:08:36 <rafe> no i plucked them out... have to put them in again
11:08:48 <gilbertbsd> hardy hahaha
11:08:49 <rafe> * pop * there
11:09:17 <gilbertbsd> rafe what did you know to write your asm?
11:10:02 <rafe> the o/s file formats, opcodes & mnemonics... that is machine & o/s
11:10:19 <gilbertbsd> and what did you write them in?
11:10:21 <gilbertbsd> themselves?
11:10:21 <rafe> not an expert tho... so don't get scared off
11:10:39 <rafe> yes asm in asm is what i did
11:10:46 <gilbertbsd> Incest!
11:10:49 <rafe> asm in 4th would be better
11:11:01 <gilbertbsd> I always thought there was an asm in 4th.
11:11:16 <rafe> not in these parts of florida :D
11:11:29 * gilbertbsd is in Miami :)
11:11:37 <rafe> gainesville
11:11:55 <gilbertbsd> yeah. I stayed in jacksonville for 4 mths
11:12:02 <gilbertbsd> and I visited gainesville too.
11:12:10 <Kitanin> Florida's banned asm in forth?  Or just pre-installed asm in forth?
11:12:14 <rafe> sorry to hear that ;0
11:12:31 <gilbertbsd> I liked gainesville, I didn't like jacksonville much.
11:13:04 <rafe> do you have a disassembler?
11:13:09 <gilbertbsd> nope.
11:13:17 <gilbertbsd> should I dissasemble stuff and look at them?
11:13:37 <rafe> it'll make debugging your stuff easier
11:13:50 <gilbertbsd> I have the gnu stuff installed on the solaris box.
11:14:41 <rafe> should be a freebie somewhere ... doesn't gcc -a compile to gas?
11:14:52 <gilbertbsd> yeah .
11:14:55 <gilbertbsd> i have as as well.
11:14:58 <gilbertbsd> I just don't wanna use it.
11:15:12 <rafe> well a little will help
11:15:28 <gilbertbsd> I mean I don't wanna read/learn AS but I will use the debugger.
11:15:34 <rafe> not that you want to mimic it
11:16:07 <rafe> you just want to confirm that  your generated code is correct... or at least matched as
11:16:26 <rafe> sanity checks are good
11:18:21 <rafe> soo add $reg1, #10 instruct generated should match what u do... see i use olly debug but it's wincrap
11:18:31 <rafe> no good to you
11:18:49 <gilbertbsd> I think I am safe.
11:19:04 <gilbertbsd> Brad Rodriguez has written cross assemblers in forth and published stuff on it.
11:19:22 <gilbertbsd> www.zetetics.com/bj/papers/
11:20:21 <rafe> yea i skimmed some of these
11:20:59 <gilbertbsd> this makes me feel that much better :)
11:21:04 <rafe> he knows his stuff so maybe you can use his code as a template?
11:22:08 <gilbertbsd> there. All nice and printed out.
11:22:33 * rafe warns: also my knowledge is dated a bit tho the concepts are still sound
11:22:52 <rafe> s/also//
11:22:53 <gilbertbsd> well gramps. I am into 'dated' stuff.
11:22:57 <gilbertbsd> :D
11:23:31 <gilbertbsd> if I had a CDC, I would play with it all day long.
11:23:51 <rafe> ut oh back to work for me before my boss pistol whips me
11:23:59 <gilbertbsd> hehehe
11:24:01 <gilbertbsd> does he know forth?
11:24:04 * rafe goes back into lurk mode
11:24:26 <rafe> no & they won't like that i use it either
11:24:52 <rafe> tutles
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12:25:51 <mur> BAM!
12:25:55 <mur> now it happened
12:26:04 <mur> someone left Soap` on floor
12:26:19 <Robert> Someone is about to die, mur.
12:26:39 <mur> die is word i have used recently far too much
12:27:08 <Robert> Because you're in the army.
12:27:10 <gilbertbsd> as in "die mofo die mofo die" ?
12:27:22 <mur> well i have heard both words actaully
12:27:31 <mur> mofo is used often by one britt
12:27:35 <mur> i know
12:27:36 <mur> :)
12:28:03 <mur> to use does not equal to speak outloud
12:28:23 * Soap` raises an eyebrow
12:28:25 <Soap`> Someone dropped me?
12:28:49 <mur> yes you slipped to another side of world. to new seamanland
12:29:09 <mur> good you dont speak kiwi english
12:30:28 <mur> Soap`, what's the time in newzealand?
12:31:07 <Soap`> 9:30am. I should still be in bed.
12:31:47 <mur> you got up or never got down?
12:32:48 <Soap`> I got up and lurched, zombie-like, from the bedroom to the coffee machine.
12:33:17 * mur will be zombie next week
12:33:41 <mur> we will have in hrmm.. there morning "sports"
12:33:50 <mur> thta is what i hate the most
12:33:56 <mur> i hate getting up quickly
12:34:03 <mur> and doingsomethig after that i hate even more
12:34:19 <mur> > than >
12:35:05 <mur> should i go to sleep or will you talk?
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14:00:16 <Soap`> Oh hell.
14:00:39 <Soap`> I spent most of yesterday trying to figure out why some numbers weren't what was expected.
14:00:50 <Soap`> Now I figure out the problem was in the itoa routine I was using to help me debug
14:01:52 <Kitanin> <g>
14:14:07 <Kitanin> Hmm...  Anyone know anything about the IND$FILE transfer protocol?  (Old IBM Mainframey stuff)
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14:19:00 <Kitanin> Anyone?  Anyone?  Beuller?  Beuller?
14:19:14 <gilbertbsd> :)
14:21:46 <Kitanin> Damnit.  This lame-o-rama third party dialer program is interfering with my 100% success rate!  It must die!  Bring me the head of the person at IBM that decided not to document IND$FILE!  Gnash!
14:22:51 <gilbertbsd> are you working with a mainframe?
14:23:25 <Kitanin> Dialing into another company's mainframe.  So no, upgrading is not the answer.  :-)
14:24:30 <gilbertbsd> have you searched http://groups.google.com ?
14:25:12 <Kitanin> Not this week.
14:25:17 * Kitanin googles.
14:25:34 <gilbertbsd> ie for the stuff you are looking for.
14:26:55 <Kitanin> Sweet Jebus!  It actually came up!
14:27:08 <gilbertbsd> ;)
14:28:38 <Kitanin> Of course, with comments like "Most people have reverse engineered the protocol.", I'm less than reassured.  :-(
14:30:13 <Kitanin> Ah.  It's going to involve faking a 3270.  I may whimper now.
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14:44:46 <Kitanin> gilbert: Before, I was angry.  Now, I am merely devoid of hope.  Thank you.  :-)
14:46:05 <gilbertbsd> you are most welcome.
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14:49:46 <Kitanin> But, I now know which "For Internal Use Only" highly secret "Proprietary even though we don't support it anymore" document I'm looking for.  :-D
14:50:02 <gilbertbsd> hehehe.
14:51:23 <Kitanin> Of course, I fully expect Agent Smith to show up and make my mouth disappear for knowing that...
14:51:38 <gilbertbsd> :)
14:51:53 <gilbertbsd> Agent Smith. How is that collection of electrons these days?
14:52:28 <Kitanin> We make him sick, apparently.
14:52:46 <gilbertbsd> tell him he isn't entropic.
14:52:50 <gilbertbsd> so he exists.
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15:12:41 <ramnull> Anyone here seen the code for the mail form at www.forth.org?
15:14:01 <ramnull> http://www.forth.org/links/mailfig.fth
15:17:03 <Robert> I think I once had a quick look at it..
15:17:33 <ramnull> Robert: It uses the word "get-char" and I cant find a definition for it anywhere.
15:17:44 <Robert> Hm.
15:17:50 <Robert> Sure it's not a gforth(?) word?
15:18:15 <ramnull> Robert: I couldn't find it in the gforth texinfo file.
15:18:54 <Robert> Hmm..
15:19:11 <Robert> I have no idea then. "see get-char" doesn't work=
15:19:14 <Robert> s/=/?/
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15:29:24 <Kitanin> It looks like it's ThisForth-specific.
15:35:09 <Kitanin> ramnull: From the context, next-char returns the next character from the input stream (without removing it from the input stream), and get-char returns it and removes it from the input stream.
15:38:32 <Kitanin> So they're like KEY and KEY?
15:39:43 <tcn> like KEY and something else
15:40:19 <Kitanin> tcn: If KEY? returns the character (which it can, since valid characters are all true), then it is the same.  :-)
15:40:42 <Kitanin> Oops.
15:41:06 <Kitanin> Okay.  It's _almost_ KEY?.  (null characters)
15:43:54 * ramnull nods
15:45:10 <ramnull> bbl
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16:24:37 <Gamera> Hi, one quick general question....
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16:25:24 <Gamera> I started FORTH a long while ago, in 83 when after a few months doing BASIC you just knew there had to be something better :>
16:25:48 <Gamera> What are the new standards in FORTH?  not 79 I guess.
16:26:18 <gilbertbsd> ANS Forth
16:26:23 <gilbertbsd> people hate it.
16:26:23 <Gamera> ok.  
16:26:50 <gilbertbsd> so what have you been doing since F-83?
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16:27:33 <Gamera> right, well anyhoot I haven't touched it for a long while.  Only when interracting with a SPARC monitor mode or also in Ghostscript (now don't start to kick me)
16:27:43 <Gamera> I had a Jupiter ace back then
16:28:06 <Gamera> Then on the Apple II there was graforth but I switched direct to ASM
16:28:47 <Gamera> It's just that if forth was good then, imagine today (yeah, but you guys know that)
16:29:46 <Gamera> I'm more and more looking back at it. 
16:30:13 <gilbertbsd> what would you need it for?
16:32:30 <Gamera> Go back, see how well in integrates into OSes.  I have been doing Unix since, and I guess C and PERL are cute.  However I haven't seen may people using FORTH outside of embeded systems
16:32:54 <Gamera> then again, what do I know :)
16:33:12 <gilbertbsd> yeah its a scary language .
16:34:32 <Gamera> Well te fun stuff is that back in the early 80's the buzzword was "xth generation language", FORTH was the right answer, but people lost the appetite for it
16:35:29 <Gamera> I even was forced to do PROLOG because of that "xth generation fashion"  :)
16:35:49 <Gamera> so I got my kicks with C.
16:36:15 <gilbertbsd> are you a programmer?
16:36:20 <gilbertbsd> or do you use it for fun?
16:36:47 <Gamera> fun mostly... 
16:37:12 <Gamera> my jobs are more like C and PERL... sysadmin.. but I'd love to get out of it.
16:37:43 <Gamera> on what do you use FORTH?
16:40:11 <gilbertbsd> umm. solaris
16:40:22 <gilbertbsd> I have a solaris box which has the 'ok' prompt.
16:40:53 <Gamera> hehhehe... back to the NVRAM game then... STOP-A ... ok.
16:41:07 <gilbertbsd> yes thats what it is.
16:41:28 <gilbertbsd> do you know if its possible to reach the ok prompt by other means?
16:41:31 <Gamera> that isforth looks exactly what I was looking for... doing int 80 calls to the linux kernel
16:42:15 <gilbertbsd> i440 will be happy to hear that.
16:42:16 <Gamera> eerrr... well, you can strip off the solaris bit and try to make your sparky a forth only box.
16:42:31 <gilbertbsd> My name is not CM yet.
16:43:38 <Gamera> This said thanks to forth and SBUS you did have a very portable way of supporting cards back then.  Much better than PCI, it it wasn't for the license costs and the speed it was limited to
16:44:11 <Gamera> nu I still remember forth to be used for game coding... fast ones
16:44:31 <Gamera> and comaparing it to java, it makes way more sense.
16:45:39 <Gamera> hehehe... let's replace html/javascript with postscript and code a browser in FORTH. this woudl have been netscape on steroids.
16:46:03 <gilbertbsd> do you do much postscript?
16:46:15 <onetom> i
16:46:36 <onetom> hi, imean
16:46:51 <Gamera> did.  also a long long while ago.
16:47:07 <onetom> so many new faces.. how come?
16:48:01 <gilbertbsd> Gamera its the call of Forth.
16:48:07 <gilbertbsd> s/gamera/onetom
16:48:18 <Gamera> onetom: well there was that episode of Mannix  where he codes in forth so it became a must
16:48:41 <Gamera> watch me, I've seen that on Mannix
16:48:46 <Gamera> 2 2 + .
16:49:10 <Gamera> hehehhe
16:51:13 <gilbertbsd> that is 4
16:51:18 <Gamera> ok
16:51:21 <gilbertbsd> yes
16:51:22 <Gamera> :)
16:51:22 <gilbertbsd> ok
16:53:15 <Gamera> great just downloaded isforth, gforth, bigforth... time to compile and so forth.
16:54:30 <Gamera> is there a cute tutorial around?  I have just forgotten how to do functions/definitions already.
16:56:57 <onetom> Gamera: hehe 
16:57:05 <gilbertbsd> ah yes.
16:57:11 <gilbertbsd> gamera lemme show you one.
16:57:37 <Gamera> well I had this great Sybex book, ages ago... but it's gone
16:57:48 <onetom> Gamera: flux is the state of art forth
16:57:49 <gilbertbsd> look for andsoforth.df
16:57:52 <gilbertbsd> look for andsoforth.pdf
16:58:03 <Speuler> 'morning
16:58:28 <Gamera> thanks!
16:58:46 <Speuler> Gamera: gforth comes with tutorial.  info gforth.  or pinfo, for easier browsing
16:58:48 <gilbertbsd> lemme see if I can find the url
16:59:29 <gilbertbsd> http://ficl.sourceforge.net/pdf/Forth_Primer.pdf
17:00:30 <Gamera> go it!!! Many many thanks.  A nice crunchy 86 pages!  
17:01:56 <gilbertbsd> yes. the larger it is the more 'meat' it might contain?
17:03:02 <Gamera> Well you had books like something-Bible  (eg OpenGL Bible) which only had pics and lotsa blah blah blahs...
17:03:53 <gilbertbsd> I am beginning to think thick books should be avoided at all costs.
17:04:47 <Gamera> I had very good mental orgasms with addison-wesley, but boy are they expensive
17:04:59 <gilbertbsd> unnecesarily so.
17:06:07 <Gamera> then again you have those "mastering Windows paintbrush" that make 600+ pages with... nothing in them.  
17:06:41 <Gamera> or teach yourself Unix in 5 days (that sort makes me laugh all the time)
17:07:18 <Gamera> you have 2 shell functions, 2 awk functions, a few thiongs like ls and the rest is filler.
17:09:33 <Gamera> and then a few C on UNIX books from O'Reilly that still code as if you were on MULTICS with weird advises about malloc and memory issues
17:09:40 <onetom> Gamera: http://sec.dunasoft.com:9673/wiki/forth/source.html
17:11:36 <Gamera> oh that's cute!  You show that to turn people away from Forth or to make them buy a C64? :) 
17:11:38 <onetom> Gamera: its the source code of flux
17:11:45 <Gamera> thanks
17:11:58 <onetom> its not colored just 4 fun
17:12:16 <onetom> colors replace a lot of functionality
17:12:39 <onetom> eg red color make the use of : unnecessary
17:12:54 <Gamera> oh, ok.. that color-forth, I haven't got a chance to look at it yet
17:13:09 <Gamera> interesting concept though.  
17:13:13 <onetom> white colored words r executed no compiled as green ones
17:13:33 <onetom> so u dont have 2 interrupt a word definition
17:13:49 <onetom> for some computaion w brackets
17:14:02 <onetom> u just have 2 switch colors
17:14:38 <onetom> : new-display [ 1024 768 * 2* ] literal allocate ;
17:14:50 <onetom> is written as
17:15:26 <onetom> [red] new-display [white] 1024 768 * 2* [green] allocate ;
17:16:01 --- quit: fridge ("http://lice.codehack.com")
17:16:03 <onetom> no need for the word "literal" because the
17:16:45 <onetom> color transition from white (or cyan(dec), magenta(hex), yellow(address)) to green
17:17:06 <onetom> compiles the top of stack element
17:18:00 <Gamera> new-display will be finaly replaced as 1572864 in the compile... a bit like macros on C but smarter. am I right?
17:18:24 <onetom> well..
17:18:36 <onetom> it also does an allocation
17:18:42 <onetom> what is getmem in C
17:19:05 <Gamera> malloc...
17:19:23 <onetom> but 2 some extent u r right, this white among green is sg like macros
17:19:33 <onetom> hehe :) that was pascal, sorry
17:20:04 <onetom> sg like macros, coz those parts r "evaluated at compile time"
17:20:17 <onetom> actually they r simply executed
17:20:32 <onetom> no special evaluator code for it
17:20:40 <onetom> *there is no ... 
17:20:50 <Gamera> yeah, there are some concept like that in PERL... usefull to get rid of the system dependent bits at load time, then the rest is more portable
17:20:57 <onetom> btw, what u c is:
17:22:50 <onetom> a color terminal, kbd drv, video drv, 2 font drvs, floppy drv, mem dump, color editor, native compiler, word lister, clock example, tetris
17:23:00 <onetom> plus some documentation
17:24:36 <onetom> those pages are the only source for all the listed programs/drivers
17:25:08 <onetom> no other, auxiliary code, just an 50k (source size!) 4th kernel
17:25:17 <gilbertbsd> onetom would you say colorforth is pseudocode for forth ?
17:25:17 <onetom> written in asm+4th
17:25:36 <onetom> gilbertbsd: hm... dont think so
17:26:00 <onetom> gilbertbsd: its a pseudo code 4 the dictionary
17:26:18 <gilbertbsd> I don't like colorforth.
17:26:21 <Gamera> I see, I'm just reading now the primer on Enth... Sounds just like what we were joking about "A Sun without solaris"
17:26:25 <onetom> gilbertbsd: but its also true in the case of the conventional 4th
17:26:29 <onetom> gilbertbsd: why?
17:26:39 <gilbertbsd> I don't understand anything about it.
17:26:49 <gilbertbsd> do a hello world lemme see.
17:26:57 <onetom> in flux:
17:27:04 <Speuler> Gamera: ForthPrimer examples are not all usable for copy-and-paste, because of a few misspellings
17:28:28 <onetom> screen 12x22 black page    " hello world" count type   switch keys
17:28:34 <Gamera> Speuler... thanks!  And I can't locate that Sybex book on FORTH either.  So I guess I'm gratefull for having that paper.
17:29:02 <onetom> gilbertbsd: there is not much special about flux
17:29:21 <onetom> gilbertbsd: of course the original CM c4th is terrible :)
17:29:34 <Gamera> btw, where are you all located?
17:29:44 <Speuler> same as you
17:29:53 * onetom is in Hungary
17:29:53 <gilbertbsd> hehehe
17:29:56 <Gamera> I'm in Darmstadt, Germany
17:29:57 <gilbertbsd> miami
17:30:03 <Speuler> munich
17:30:12 <Gamera> gilbertbsd: .. You lucky *#*#&!!! :)
17:30:26 * onetom agrees on that w Gamera :)
17:30:48 <Gamera> well at leats the beer is good here... right Speuler? :)
17:30:58 * Speuler agrees
17:31:10 <onetom> :))
17:31:18 <Speuler> i get free beer in the pub around the corner
17:31:21 <Gamera> it helps... but I'd do with plenty of sun though.
17:31:21 <onetom> just as the weather in NOT good @ all
17:31:58 <Speuler> there do exist mediocre qualities of beer, even in munich
17:32:09 <Speuler> at least, compared to the local standard :)
17:32:22 <Gamera> we have some here... bad stuff too.  2 glasses and yor head hurts.
17:33:06 <gilbertbsd> Gamera I had a german g/f.
17:33:21 <gilbertbsd> she wasn't very nice otherwise I would be in baden-baden now.
17:33:32 <Gamera> Oh my... 
17:33:35 <gilbertbsd> yeah.
17:33:41 <gilbertbsd> it was a small matter of frequency ;)
17:33:42 <gilbertbsd> :D
17:34:13 <Gamera> Well my ex was Irish, the drinking was too much.  Beer was water, only deadly cocktails turned her on.  
17:34:23 <gilbertbsd> oh dear.
17:35:04 <gilbertbsd> I don't understand why forth has a 'then' as part of the if/else.
17:35:24 <Gamera> She went back to Donegal... But I have just net the right German girl, only 3 litres of beer per night.
17:35:37 <Speuler> if and else alternate path jump to adress begin then
17:36:09 <gilbertbsd> only 3?
17:36:12 <Speuler> t'is like the closing } in a c  if construct
17:36:15 <gilbertbsd> and frequency? only 3 a month too?
17:36:46 <Speuler> s/begin/behind/
17:37:07 <I440r> gilbertbsd: the then is needed. - the then backfills the if or the else's branch vector
17:37:42 <Gamera> oh boy we have this FORTH+Girls+alchoolism crossfire....
17:39:08 <Speuler> gilbertbsd: the need for "then" should be easier to see then the need for  "begin" in begin..while..repeat
17:39:42 <Speuler> or do you mean "forth has endif already, why does it need then" ?
17:40:07 <gilbertbsd> I am going to use only a few of the controls.
17:40:20 <Speuler> gilbertbsd: there are only a few :)
17:40:39 <I440r> endif is a ghey name - if else then. not if else endif
17:40:46 <I440r> bleh
17:41:34 <gilbertbsd> cm put it there because ALGOL had it.
17:42:00 <Speuler> if prefer then to endif
17:42:31 <Speuler> make more natural-language style code
17:43:09 <Gamera> Yeah... PROLOG!! (blueargh!)
17:45:31 <Speuler> begin  .... endbegin  :(
17:45:43 <onetom> Gamera: loll watta g/fs
17:45:46 <Speuler> ... do  .... enddo ...
17:45:54 <Speuler> shudder
17:46:01 <onetom> Gamera: btw, ive been 2 donegal too :)
17:46:13 * Speuler too
17:46:25 <Gamera> Kewl... I never been there myself, she worked here for Merck
17:46:33 <onetom> wow :) how frequent is that place
17:46:54 <onetom> Gamera: i have some ps problem..
17:47:05 <Gamera> ps...postscript?
17:47:13 <onetom> Gamera: could u help me? yes, postscript
17:47:30 <onetom> Gamera: what of r u workin on atm?
17:47:31 <Gamera> oh boy... ok... I'll try.  My ps is very rusty.
17:47:51 <onetom> id like 2 change font encoding
17:48:17 <onetom> to let Õ & Û displayed as O" & U"
17:48:25 <onetom>   dup 325 /Odoubleacute
17:48:25 <onetom>   dup 333 /Udoubleacute
17:48:34 <Gamera> oh.. wait... er.. kerning pairs??? (suddently I have these awfull memories)
17:48:52 <onetom> mark
17:48:52 <onetom> /EncodingVector 256 array def
17:48:52 <onetom>  EncodingVector 0
17:48:52 <onetom> ISOLatin1Encoding 0 255 getinterval putinterval
17:48:52 <onetom> EncodingVector
17:48:54 <onetom>   dup 306 /AE
17:48:57 <onetom>   dup 301 /Aacute
17:48:59 <onetom> ...
17:49:19 <onetom> ive appended the above 2 char definitions into this list
17:49:25 <onetom> but nothing has changed :/
17:49:42 <onetom> i also replaced ISOLatin1Encoding w ISOLatin2Encoding
17:49:47 <onetom> but thats unknown
17:51:04 <onetom> so what OS r u using?
17:51:12 <Gamera> Solaris and Linux
17:51:35 <onetom> coz ive generated the problematic PS file w graphviz
17:51:39 <Gamera> I myself have problem setting it for Hiragana (japanese) characters...
17:51:44 <onetom> if u r using @ least woody
17:51:57 <onetom> its a matter of apt-get install graphviz
17:52:02 <Gamera> woody?  
17:52:17 <onetom> dot -Tps test.dot -o test.ps ; gv test.ps
17:52:28 <Gamera> Oh nah, basic barebone LFS here. Like a newborn Solaris system.  Then I graf what I like.
17:52:31 <onetom> yay :) woody = debian 3.0
17:52:53 <Gamera> I haven't even got gs compiled yet... :<
17:52:54 <onetom> LFS? Linux From Scratch?
17:53:06 <Gamera> yep.. it's very basic and security is awfull
17:53:37 <Gamera> but then again all yo do is cut and paste from the LFS txt file (that's all it is).  
17:53:46 <Gamera> it's very time consuming too.
17:53:49 <Speuler> Gamera: some examples in forth primer are rubbish
17:54:06 <Speuler> for example:
17:54:16 <Speuler> : place over over >r >r char+ swap chars cmove r> r> c! ;
17:54:24 <onetom> Gamera: so why r u playin w lfs then?
17:54:27 <Speuler> which would be :
17:54:31 <Gamera> Speuler: You do love that book, don't ya?! :)
17:54:33 <Speuler> : place   2dup c! 1+ swap cmove  ; 
17:55:14 <Gamera> onetom: playing?  as in? 
17:55:25 <gilbertbsd> speuler what primer do you normally recommend?
17:55:33 <onetom> Gamera: why dont u use debian instead?
17:55:40 <Speuler> depends on whom iÄ'd recommend
17:56:13 <Speuler> the gforth tutorial is not bad. very short chapters. easy to read
17:56:43 * onetom recommends himself ;)
17:56:44 <Gamera> bah, with LFS you get a document that lists what has been compiled with what option.  Latter on you can always fallback onto it to double check if i18n and stuff are there.  It's all out of the tar-file stuff, frech from the original sites
17:56:57 * onetom is the most flexible tutorial :>
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17:57:56 <onetom> Gamera: aha.. its better 2 use bsd than if u really wanna care about all but the most basic components
17:59:04 <Gamera> onetom: Totaly agree with ya, plus the latest "stable" linux kernel have bugs that make you think twice before calling it "production release"  like ide.c has dangling pointers.
17:59:32 <Gamera> I sticked with Linux because of my sad devotion to my OpenGL drivers.  
17:59:44 <Speuler> there's a crash course too. it ends with "now that you know how to produce crashes, let's learn how to produce meaningful programs."
18:00:14 <Gamera> and the once in a while thingy that has been ported to Linux.
18:00:19 <Gamera> Speuler: heheh funny.
18:00:44 <Gamera> See C run, see C crash, see programmer run..
18:00:59 <Gamera> or something like that.
18:02:38 <Gamera> What I really dream of... a free SYS-V like Unix.. a SYS-V Linux.  Not a half-bsd, half-whatever thingy like Linux.
18:03:14 <Gamera> Open Solaris? :)  
18:04:27 <Gamera> Gee, anyone remembers Coherent Unix? the 99$ 16 bit toy?
18:04:37 <Speuler> jo
18:04:55 <Gamera> too bad that went down, it was fun back then.
18:04:57 <Speuler> well, just "coherent"
18:05:21 <Gamera> Oh yea.. UN*X with the big copyright on the name.
18:05:30 <Gamera> I forgot about that too.
18:06:02 <Gamera> else it was SCO for only $10,000   
18:06:24 <Gamera> and limited users.  (like 5 or 10) :)
18:07:01 * Speuler had a "real" unix at that time, microsomething unix (no, not microsoft :), running on 286
18:07:07 <Gamera> anyhoot.  I'll stop distracting you away from forth.
18:07:10 <Gamera> Xenix?
18:07:15 <Speuler> nope
18:07:26 <Gamera> Interactive?
18:07:30 <Herkamire> ahh :) I just discovered pinfo! finally a man page viewer where you can use the links :)
18:07:41 <Speuler> i'll google for the brand
18:08:12 <Speuler> microport i think
18:08:27 <Speuler> yes
18:08:30 <Gamera> Olivetti also made theirs.. but it's still is funny to see "Copyrighted Microsoft 1982" on some HP-UX or ohers.
18:09:20 <Gamera> Microport... mmmm... I haven't used that one.. Then again there were so many of them.
18:09:30 <Speuler>  Microport (80x86): pure SVR4, X11, OpenLook GUI 
18:09:35 <Gamera> Cute!
18:09:55 <Speuler> but very slow on 286/8mhz :)
18:10:26 <Gamera> yeah but still better than using 4 machines under Novell to get a 4 nodes BBS up and running.
18:11:55 <Gamera> hehehe, back in the days when Novell consultants ruled the world and made fun of Unix, Usenet and that Internet thing only geeks talked about.
18:13:23 --- join: skylan_ (sjh@Rockcliffe29.tbaytel.net) joined #forth
18:13:45 <Speuler> ... then in 1989 Microport went bankrupt,
18:14:03 <Gamera> say Speuler, you work at the southern observatory or just a regular high paying job?
18:14:28 <Speuler> haven't been doing "regular work" for more than a year
18:14:46 <Gamera> same here.. contracts are running dry.  
18:15:20 <Gamera> used to work with ESA and Eumetsat, but nowadasy even they have problems.
18:15:40 <Speuler> losing their consultants quicker than their booster rockets ?
18:15:51 <Gamera> heheheheh :)
18:16:48 <Gamera> Nah that's Ariane Espace, but still 2 exploded missions did make some victims.  
18:16:49 <Speuler> by "regular" i mean, paid per hour
18:17:49 <Gamera> Paid per hours?!  I used to get that in London.  HEre it's pro-tag but then again it's regulated with safehouses like the EU government places.  No one stays after 5:30
18:18:23 <Speuler> last "real job", i.e. paid per month, i had about 25 years ago :)
18:18:24 <Gamera> though some people at the ECB are doing overtime.
18:18:24 --- quit: Herkamire ("leaving")
18:18:36 <Speuler> well, 23
18:19:00 <Gamera> oh, you mean permanent?!  That thing were you are not even paid for extra days... Arghl.
18:19:34 <Speuler> well, you fill your hours, and then you leave 
18:19:43 <Speuler> that kind of job
18:19:43 <Gamera> They promise you training and then... they just give you a cisco install manual of 20 pages and say "learn IOS from that"
18:20:25 <Speuler> last "real job" was reparing computers
18:20:48 <Speuler> hardly anything to do with software
18:21:16 <Gamera> Well... HP-9000s, E10k suns are fun to play with... it's repairing PCs that sucks.
18:21:42 <Speuler> there were no pcs at that time
18:22:12 <Gamera> Oh boy, from #FORTH we are going to turn this into #Grumpy_Unemployed_Unix_Gits
18:22:47 <I440r> thats me :)(
18:22:51 <Gamera> Of course... well what then a Wang? A PDP? :)
18:22:52 <Speuler> took me years until i decided to put me a pc on the table
18:22:53 <I440r> i gtg tho
18:23:01 <I440r> nite nite
18:23:05 <Gamera> taaa taaa!
18:23:07 --- quit: I440r ("Reality Strikes Again")
18:23:46 <Speuler> repairing is was 6809-based sbcs
18:23:51 <Gamera> You know, MAME has a PDP emulator now.. for playing Space.
18:24:11 <Gamera> Hey cute, I have a 6809 in my Vectrex! 
18:24:18 <Speuler> great cpu
18:24:26 <Speuler> i loved it
18:24:50 <Gamera> I had my first kicks on the 6502... X,Y register one Accumulator.  Life was great
18:25:37 <Speuler> but only 8 bit stack pointer
18:25:52 <Speuler> zero page
18:25:58 <Gamera> Ok, so what do we have here? Forth, Enth, 6809, Vectrex... let's do a new VAX! 
18:26:19 <Gamera> a new vectrex with SCSI
18:26:38 <Speuler> i did quite a lot of scsi programming btw
18:27:03 <Gamera> yeah memory sucked on my Apple II, but then again who needed more than 64 kb?
18:27:26 <Speuler> implemented initiator and target software for plastic-and-metal-only computers :)
18:27:52 --- quit: skylan (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
18:28:01 <Gamera> scsi is fun... too bad a lot of jerks replaced it with IDE saying it was as "wide and flexible"
18:28:19 <Speuler> hmpf
18:28:41 <Gamera> I still can see IDE drive bottleneckign like mad.  so theri solution is one controller per device.. reinventing SCSI .. badly.
18:29:58 <Gamera> Ok I need a contract badly, need to buy some new gear.. like some nice raid array.
18:30:23 <Speuler> adaptec 2100 and 3100 work allright under linux
18:31:11 <Gamera> Yeah.. and I did a short contract at Digital/Compaq in their SAN WAN division.  Lotsa nice gear to plug onto a Linux or Solaris box.
18:31:31 <Gamera> nice fiber... mmmm
18:31:51 <Speuler> yes, would consider that as alternative too
18:32:31 <Gamera> of course, the controlling interface for configuring the ocmponents is a PC running Windows (doh! typical Compaq)  
18:33:38 <Gamera> And the fun thing was... Compaq bought Digital back then, telling them "the old mainfraime mentality got you guys nowhere"
18:34:03 <Gamera> then when it came to storage, it's only the digital know how that saved the new compaq
18:34:47 <Speuler> last scsi project, i had to implement the assembler for the processor on the scsi controller too.
18:34:50 <Gamera> Compaq has a shitty litte RAID thingy (the RA-4000 I think) and Digital had monster things like fiber, on the fly datat replicators and the lot
18:35:15 <Gamera> Speuler: That must have been neat...
18:35:39 <Speuler> there was no other code available at all
18:35:40 <Gamera> what do they use? RISC?
18:36:18 <Speuler> that was a symbios controller. 53x896 i think
18:36:24 <Speuler> very risky, yes
18:36:32 <Speuler> but not general purpose cpu
18:36:48 <Speuler> streamlined for scsi operation
18:37:32 <Speuler> risky as in "reduced instruction set", not as in "huge register banks" :)
18:37:43 <Gamera> oui oui
18:38:30 <Gamera> Now that you mentioned it. I was a pocket computer freak.  Sharp PC-1350, PC-1500
18:38:50 <Gamera> and the Sharp PS-1350 ahd a funny low voltage Fijutsu chip on it
18:39:00 <Gamera> Fujitsu, sorry.
18:39:27 <Gamera> and that one did map registers to memeory a la risc.  I mean back in the days when Z80 was a big name
18:39:56 <Gamera> you could define and resize your register areas.  
18:40:03 <Speuler> using static ram as registers ?
18:40:31 <Gamera> I dunno, but isn't it what big RISC things like the sparc do?
18:40:51 <Speuler> sparc uses afaik reigster windows
18:41:32 <Gamera> could have been somethign like that.  but for me used to my 6502 and a bi of the z80, that was totlay new.  
18:41:39 <Speuler> those are provided by cpu, not by external ram
18:41:48 <Gamera> Yes.
18:42:04 <Gamera> The memory was limited since it was inside.
18:42:10 <Gamera> inside the chip I meant.. sorry.
18:42:11 <Speuler> novix (forth cpu) allows single-cycle operation on static ram on first 32 addresses
18:43:26 --- quit: proteusguy ("Client Exiting")
18:43:40 <Speuler> that is, single cycle to address and fetch
18:43:42 <Gamera> but on a pocket PC that was designed in maybe 1984... that was quite surprising.. I'll look for more info on the web.
18:43:51 <Speuler> or address and store
18:43:59 <Speuler> but not read-modify-write
18:44:18 <Gamera> that's pretty convenient though.
18:44:30 <Speuler> rmw was in best case a two cycle operation
18:44:35 <Speuler> i think
18:46:49 <Speuler> "Microport's terminal problems began when SCO, then in temporary posession of Unix before passing it on to Caldera, took Lucent, Microport's biggest customer, direct after Microport put up $500,000 to get the deal going. Microport never really recovered from that."
18:47:06 <Speuler> Then when Caldera took over, it confusingly renamed UnixWare Open Unix 8, making it kind of indistinguishable from Open Server and Caldera Open Linux. That was another blow.
18:47:52 <Gamera> yep... So that is what UnixWare was then
18:48:06 <Gamera> apropos of that mysterious CPU...
18:48:10 <Gamera> http://www.ctrl.titech.ac.jp/~hkoba/pocketcom/sc61860op.html
18:49:46 <Speuler> ah
18:49:56 <Gamera> I guess I had it all confused then
18:50:13 <Speuler> registers ref'd through internal ram pointer to 96 bytes sram
18:50:50 <Speuler> like pic, 8051 and some more microcontrollers
18:52:08 <Gamera> ok.  interesting.  the computer itself was quite neat for the time.. and the batteries lasted for months.  :)
18:53:34 <Gamera> it had a screaming 4KB RAM 
18:54:10 <Gamera> better than the ZX-81, hey?!
18:56:04 <Gamera> "imagine a beowulf cluster of them" like the old Slashdot boring expression goes.
18:56:14 <Speuler> probably. integrated screen. battery power
18:56:56 <Gamera> and a serial port.  Very neat for hacking those BBS at 300 bauds.
18:57:09 <Gamera> :)
18:57:40 <Speuler> speaker and micro, usable as acoustic coupler ?
18:57:57 <Gamera> nah the speaker was very bad for that.
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18:58:43 <Gamera> http://pocket.free.fr/html/sharp/pc-1350_e.html
18:58:45 <Speuler> some ax25 packet modem drivers use just a sound card as modem
18:59:22 <Speuler> up to 9600 bps i think
18:59:35 <Speuler> uh-oh
18:59:44 <Speuler> temperature down to -13 here ...
19:00:15 <Gamera> oh boy... no wonder it's also cold in Hessen...
19:01:13 <Gamera> and it's 4 am too.
19:01:34 <Gamera> I'm expecting a call in 6 hours.  Better go to bed.
19:02:05 <Speuler> need to stretch out too
19:02:23 <Speuler> just looking at the new software ,,,
19:02:32 <Speuler> hmm
19:02:48 <Gamera> ok, well it has been really great to talk to you all.  I'll come back.
19:02:55 <Speuler> i do hope so
19:03:02 <Speuler> sleep well
19:03:04 <Gamera> and I'll go with that gforth tutorials.
19:03:10 <Gamera> taaa taaa!
19:03:11 --- quit: Kiara (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
19:03:25 <Gamera> tchuuuuuuus!
19:03:31 --- quit: Gamera ("Client exiting")
19:03:32 <Speuler> servus
19:41:55 <Speuler> who knows amrforth v5 / linux ?
19:42:23 <Speuler> (costfree...)
20:04:04 <Speuler> would you think that this way of specifiying modifier of enum index is acceptable :
20:04:08 <Speuler> 0 8 enums 1+    black red yellow green blue magenta cyan white
20:04:15 <Speuler>  1 4 enums 2*    bit0 bit1 bit2 bit3
20:04:21 <Speuler> ?
20:05:00 <Speuler> : enums ( start xt n -- )
20:05:01 <Speuler>   ' -rot
20:05:01 <Speuler>   0 ?do
20:05:01 <Speuler>      dup constant
20:05:01 <Speuler>      over execute
20:05:01 <Speuler>   loop
20:05:05 <Speuler>   2drop
20:05:07 <Speuler> ;
20:05:24 <Speuler> ahem. stack diag wrong ...
20:05:58 <TreyB> dup postpone constant
20:06:01 <TreyB> (I think)
20:06:50 <TreyB> Hmmm.
20:12:29 <TreyB> ?do (ANS) consumes both arguments.
20:16:17 * TreyB obviously doesn't write enough forth. *sigh*
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23:47:03 <Serg_Penguin> topic #forth !
23:47:15 <Robert> Hi serg :)
23:47:21 <Serg_Penguin> hi :))))
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23:56:35 <Serg_Penguin> is there any tutor how to write asm in forth ?
23:56:54 <Robert> Just harass i440r a bit :P
23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/03.02.13