00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.02.06
01:10:48 <joonas> bye all
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10:19:28 <gilbertbsd> join #gule
10:19:31 <gilbertbsd> :)
10:23:10 <Herkamire> #gule is empty
10:23:12 <tathi> why??
10:23:21 <Herkamire> gilbertbsd: you're a gule
10:23:36 <gilbertbsd> it was meant to be #guile 
10:23:37 <gilbertbsd> :)
10:24:16 <tathi> guile is that gnome version of scheme for scripting, isn't it?
10:24:23 <gilbertbsd> yes it is.
10:24:39 <tathi> no thanks :)
10:24:41 <gilbertbsd> hehe.
10:24:46 <gilbertbsd> I have a solaris box now.
10:24:53 <tathi> good for you
10:24:53 <gilbertbsd> and I have seen the OpenBoot forth
10:25:04 <tathi> fun, huh?
10:25:06 <gilbertbsd> All you have to do is hit 'stop a'.
10:25:20 <gilbertbsd> yeah I impressed my roommate with '2 3 5 + + . ' :D
10:25:35 <tathi> heh
10:25:41 <Herkamire> 10 is so impressive
10:25:54 <gilbertbsd> oh yes. especially when he didn't know it was possible.
10:26:00 <Herkamire> I was so impressive when I was 10
10:26:05 <tathi> what, for a computer to add numbers?
10:26:22 <gilbertbsd> he did not know the 'ok prompt' was a forth interpreter.
10:26:30 <Herkamire> computers have been able to add numbers for a long time
10:26:51 <tathi> silly him :P
10:27:13 <gilbertbsd> I also did hello world to prove that it was a complete interpreter.
10:27:47 <tathi> does he do forth at all?
10:28:26 <gilbertbsd> no. he knew not forth
10:28:39 <gilbertbsd> and he did not know it was a small cult either until I explained everything to him.
10:28:46 <tathi> :(
10:29:04 <tathi> well, I suppose we were all ignorant of forth at one time
10:29:29 <gilbertbsd> yes the day before we read the words in the right context.
10:29:39 <gilbertbsd> actually the minute before ... the second before...
10:29:57 <gilbertbsd> I first read about forth in a computer encyclopaedia.
10:30:07 <gilbertbsd> the second before I turned the page, i did not know about it.
10:30:15 <gilbertbsd> the first line or so said 'forth is an amplifier'
10:30:29 <tathi> amazing how these things happen
10:30:40 <tathi> I bet there wasn't even a drum roll as you turned the page
10:30:50 <gilbertbsd> nope. just the hum of the ac
10:32:30 <gilbertbsd> tathi how did you first learn about forth?
10:33:01 <tathi> erm...herk told me
10:33:18 <tathi> well, he mentioned it
10:33:28 <tathi> so I went and found the ANS spec and started writing one :)
10:33:28 <gilbertbsd> on irc or irl?
10:33:34 <gilbertbsd> haha.
10:33:35 <tathi> email, probably
10:34:05 <tathi> don't think I used anyone else's forth until I had written two, actually
10:34:09 <gilbertbsd> whats your forth called?
10:34:36 <tathi> oh, I haven't actually released any forths
10:34:46 <gilbertbsd> but you've written two?
10:34:55 <tathi> hmm...
10:35:12 <tathi> I'm currently on #5 or so
10:35:20 <gilbertbsd> what do you write them in?
10:35:23 <tathi> I keep thinking of "better" ways to do it and starting over
10:35:36 <tathi> first 2 or three in C
10:35:44 <tathi> currently in PPC assembly language
10:36:14 <Herkamire> I blabbed at tathi for at least 2 hours about forth
10:36:29 <tathi> yeah, then it was a while before I actually tried it
10:36:38 <tathi> even though I seem to remember thinking it was a really good idea...
10:36:39 <gilbertbsd> is PPC asm risc?
10:36:40 <Herkamire> more than enough to get him interested. now he does more forth than me.
10:36:45 <Herkamire> I've only written one forth engine
10:36:55 <tathi> gilbertbsd: yes
10:37:13 <tathi> about as much as any processor is RISC these days
10:37:19 <gilbertbsd> tathi is PPC anything like sparc asm?
10:37:34 <tathi> I get that impression
10:37:50 <tathi> from other people; I've never done any sparc asm myself
10:38:07 * tathi goes hunting for sparc reference manuals...
10:38:27 <gilbertbsd> well its logical! sparc asm is risc AND it already has a forth!
10:38:35 <gilbertbsd> that will save you a good deal of re-writing.
10:38:54 <tathi> heh
10:39:17 <gilbertbsd> I think I wanna learn sparc asm.
10:39:24 <gilbertbsd> herk how did you learn about forth?
10:40:06 <tathi> hmm, looks like sparc uses naming conventions more similar to 68K than PPC...
10:40:59 <tathi> (for instruction mnemonics, that is)
10:41:30 <gilbertbsd> does the PPC have fewer instructions than the x86?
10:43:01 <tathi> I would assume so
10:43:26 <Herkamire> gilbertbsd: from a friend
10:43:28 <tathi> PPC has 130-ish, I think
10:43:30 <gilbertbsd> why do you program in asm on the PPC?
10:43:39 <gilbertbsd> herk and that friend found out how?
10:43:48 <gilbertbsd> I bet eventually someone found out from CM!
10:43:55 <gilbertbsd> 6 degrees of CM!
10:44:03 <Herkamire> I don't know
10:46:28 <tathi> hrm, I take that back, my reference manual is listing about 200
10:46:39 <tathi> looks like 25 or so are floating point instructions
10:46:53 <gilbertbsd> how is that RISC then?
10:46:55 <tathi> and that's not counting all the altivec (vector unit) instructions (there are _tons_ of those)
10:47:26 <tathi> dunno
10:47:38 <Herkamire> how many does x86 have
10:47:51 <tathi> AFAICT, RISC and CISC sort of came together
10:48:33 <tathi> what's left now is that RISC-ish processors have way more registers
10:48:41 <tathi> and the instructions are simpler, in a way.
10:49:16 * gilbertbsd is googling for it.
10:49:33 <tathi> RISC-ish processors generally make you load things into registers before operating on them
10:49:47 <tathi> x86 doesn't.
10:50:43 <tathi> gilbertbsd: I program in asm on the PPC because I like asm, period.
10:51:56 <gilbertbsd> good good.
10:52:07 <tathi> x86 asm wasn't quite my first language -- I played around with an interpreted language for about 3 months first
10:52:28 <tathi> but basically, I don't much like C
10:52:45 <tathi> and I'm way too much of a perfectionist about forth, so I still don't have a forth that I'm happy with :)
10:53:55 <gilbertbsd> what will your perfect forth have?
10:53:58 <gilbertbsd> 3 instructions?
10:54:45 <tathi> I'm into colorforth
10:55:10 <tathi> I had one that I was fairly happy with, but I got really tired of the name length restrictions
10:55:58 <tathi> I like small forths, but I'm not _that_ minimalist
10:56:22 <gilbertbsd> since you do risc asm all you really need is sbnz $1, $2, $3 no?
10:56:51 <tathi> sbnz?
10:57:25 <gilbertbsd> subtract bnz
10:58:08 <tathi> ah, right
11:01:58 <gilbertbsd> where do I start ?
11:02:30 <tathi> with assembly language?
11:02:54 <gilbertbsd> with risc sparc especially.
11:03:10 <tathi> what languages do you do already?
11:03:40 <gilbertbsd> python, two drops of forth and some scheme 
11:04:19 <tathi> yay, python :)
11:04:37 <gilbertbsd> its simply a beautiful language.
11:04:55 <Herkamire> hear here
11:05:07 <tathi> yup yup.  I just installed Gentoo, so I've been playing with it.  Hacking the emerge script and such-like.
11:05:22 <tathi> as for sparc asm, I'm not sure.
11:05:38 <gilbertbsd> where did you start for PPC?
11:05:48 <gilbertbsd> oh yeah I have read some x86 asm.
11:05:54 <gilbertbsd> I rather enjoyed it
11:06:01 <tathi> the Sparc Assembly Language Reference Manual doesn't seem terribly helpful
11:06:10 * gilbertbsd nods
11:06:17 <tathi> I started by reading reference manuals etc.
11:06:31 <tathi> the most difficult part with RISC seems to be figuring out what the calling conventions are
11:06:57 <tathi> which registers you can't touch, which ones you use for function parameters, etc.
11:08:24 <gilbertbsd> hmmm. i might also have to look for a sparc assembler
11:09:30 <tathi> I'm still just using the gnu assembler ('as'), haven't found anything else much for PPC
11:10:04 <Speuler> hi
11:10:18 <gilbertbsd> ih reluepS
11:12:03 <gilbertbsd> grrr. why can't be a document somewhere which says 'learn sparc asm from scratch from here'.
11:12:45 <tathi> heh
11:12:58 <tathi> plenty of stuff out there for x86 :)
11:13:54 <tathi> looks like you can get reference manuals from http://www.sun.com/processors/
11:14:48 <gilbertbsd> I only have a usparc 1.
11:18:32 <tathi> grr
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11:19:03 <gilbertbsd> enchantedlearning.com/sparc seems promising.
11:21:28 <tathi> yay, google: http://www.sun.com/processors/manuals/802-7220-02.pdf
11:22:47 <tathi> gilbertbsd: yeah, looks like that has the basics of how to compile etc.
11:23:50 <gilbertbsd> cool thanks.
11:23:56 <gilbertbsd> I am waiting for the page to load.
11:24:06 <mur> >:)
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11:27:42 <gilbertbsd> okay. I think this and the sparc architecture manual might be what I need.
11:28:22 <tathi> yeah, that should get you started at least
11:28:49 <gilbertbsd> so I use that with the gnu tools as usual.
11:29:21 <tathi> gcc should call the assembler for .s or .S files
11:29:26 <gilbertbsd> tathi have you written an asm?
11:29:32 <tathi> or you can call it directly with as
11:29:40 <tathi> yeah, for my forth
11:29:49 <gilbertbsd> so its a ppc asm right?
11:29:53 <tathi> it's pretty simple for PPC
11:30:08 <tathi> you would probably have to pay me to get me to do one for x86 :)
11:31:39 <gilbertbsd> how is it simpler for ppc?
11:32:27 <tathi> ppc instructions are all 32 bits
11:32:37 <tathi> and all the pieces of the instructions stay in the same place
11:32:58 <tathi> x86 instructions are 1 to 5 (or 6?) bytes
11:33:29 <tathi> sometimes the same asm code could translate to 2 or 3 different forms of the instruction...
11:33:37 <gilbertbsd> in x86?
11:33:48 <tathi> yeah
11:33:57 <tathi> ugly.  ask I440r :)
11:35:31 <gilbertbsd> but I thought the gnu tools made as look ugly as well?
11:36:28 <tathi> oh, as isn't a good assembler; it's not designed to be used by humans really
11:36:53 <gilbertbsd> so whats a good as for risc?
11:37:19 <tathi> don't know...I still haven't found a good one for PPC...
11:37:26 <tathi> well, there's a good one for MacOS
11:37:28 <gilbertbsd> pardon?
11:37:38 <gilbertbsd> whats that? you haven't what? written a good one for PPC?
11:37:40 <gilbertbsd> ah okay.
11:37:48 <gilbertbsd> I see the problem.
11:38:12 <tathi> yeah. the kernel etc. usually just uses a little bit of asm, so they use as
11:38:34 <tathi> and nobody else uses assembly language at all... :)
11:38:41 <tathi> so there don't seem to be good tools out there
11:39:22 <mur> terve tahti
11:39:34 <mur> ja gilbertti
11:40:41 <gilbertbsd> ja mur
11:40:49 <mur> joo!
11:40:52 <mur> terve vaan
11:40:52 <tathi> hi mur
11:40:52 <mur> :)
11:41:13 <gilbertbsd> that looks like dutch.
11:41:24 <gilbertbsd> now we all know dutch is deutsh with extra vowels...
11:41:31 <gilbertbsd> jaa ich biin guut
11:41:55 <mur> dutch is english written in swedish with german grammar
11:42:07 <mur> it is finnish
11:43:46 <mur> mitä kuuluu?
11:43:56 <mur> terve gilbertbsd! mitä kuuluu?
11:43:59 <mur> ;)
11:44:23 <gilbertbsd> what does the fin in finland mean?
11:44:36 <mur> ?
11:45:12 <mur> the fin or finn and you mean in finnish (finland is bilingual country or anctually trilingual officially)
11:45:58 <gilbertbsd> what are the languages?
11:48:20 <mur> finnish (spoken by 90+ %) swedish (6%) and sámi (minor)
11:48:53 <gilbertbsd> whats this language s?
11:49:35 <mur> ?
11:51:19 <gilbertbsd> smi
11:52:20 <mur> hm?
11:52:36 * mur does not understand
11:53:48 <gilbertbsd> what are the three languages spoken in finland?
11:55:10 <mur> finnish (spoken by 90+ %) swedish (6%) and sámi (minor)
11:56:16 <tathi> gilbertbsd: that's coming through for me as sami, with an acute (?) accent over the 'a'.
11:56:24 <gilbertbsd> ah okay.
11:56:29 <gilbertbsd> mine says smi :)
11:56:33 <mur> saami
11:56:36 <mur> ' and a
11:56:43 <mur> it's long vowel
11:57:32 <mur> :make sense; make make make
11:57:53 <tathi> :)
11:58:07 <mur> more sense :)
11:58:18 <gilbertbsd> more importantly, what are the women in finland like?
11:58:32 <mur> they irc, do i need to tell more?
11:58:41 <gilbertbsd> :) what channel?
11:58:45 <mur> finnish ones
11:58:53 <gilbertbsd> which server rather?
11:58:56 <mur> ircnet mainly i guess
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12:01:06 <gilbertbsd> good.
12:01:26 <gilbertbsd> should I say mur@freenode.net#forth said hi?
12:01:49 * Speuler remembers looking in amazement at the technique employed by finnish bus drivers to remove snow from the streets
12:01:55 <mur> gilbertbsd, >:)
12:02:06 <Kitanin> Speuler: Do tell.
12:02:17 <mur> they probably woudl confuse wit some muur or murrrr
12:02:19 <mur> or what ever
12:02:24 <Speuler> sliding the bus through street bends
12:02:36 <Kitanin> Oh, Calgary Driving(TM).  Okay.  :-)
12:02:59 <Speuler> by doing that, kicking the snow off the road
12:03:13 <gilbertbsd> yeah but mur@irc.freenode.net#forth wouldn't confuse anyone.
12:03:18 <gilbertbsd> they can follow that and find you directly.
12:03:24 <gilbertbsd> now what channel shall I go say hi on?
12:04:15 <Speuler> #flood
12:04:23 <gilbertbsd> hahaha
12:04:33 <gilbertbsd> viery funny. whats a good channel mur?
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12:20:05 <gilbertbsd> grr
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12:21:35 <gilbertbsd> mur are you there?
12:24:28 --- quit: mur (Remote closed the connection)
12:24:31 --- join: mur` (jukka@baana-62-165-189-62.phnet.fi) joined #forth
12:24:40 <gilbertbsd> there you are.
12:25:59 --- nick: mur` -> mur
12:26:09 <Kitanin> Teeheehee...  I just convinced someone who found pascal's structure too hard to take a look at Ada.  :-)
12:27:32 <gilbertbsd> tell them to look at python instead.
12:27:43 <gilbertbsd> pascal and co are an affliction.
12:27:53 <Kitanin> No, he's looking for something that compiles to machine code.  :-)
12:28:56 <gilbertbsd> asm!
12:29:21 <Kitanin> [20:21] <lars_g> I am tired of C's bothersome char arrays and using pointers for everything.
12:29:21 <Kitanin> [20:22] <lars_g> I can't stand pascal's structure
12:29:21 <Kitanin> [20:22] <Hirogen2> it ain't that hard really
12:29:21 <Kitanin> [20:22] <lars_g> And assembly is too low level for most things
12:29:21 <Kitanin> [20:22] <lars_g> ain't there any sane language that works with linux, it's compiled as machine bytecode (no VMs please, no java no C#) and works for simple ro powerfull tasks?
12:29:27 <mur> hello gilbertbsd again
12:29:50 <mur> gilbertbsd, looking for intelligent company? :)
12:30:13 <gilbertbsd> mur whats a good ircnet channel?
12:30:30 <gilbertbsd> kitanin there is also SETL ...
12:30:40 <gilbertbsd> and ml and a host of other languages .
12:30:53 <gilbertbsd> ada was first written in setl if its any consolation.
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12:31:21 <mur> gilbertbsd, i have not found any. i got kickbanned from few i was on.
12:31:27 <Kitanin> I know, but his willingness to research Ada on my recommendation makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.  Or is that the day-old pizza?
12:31:27 <mur> there are a lot stupid people too 
12:31:34 <mur> good that tehy dont talk english full time >:)
12:31:50 <mur> gilbertbsd, i have not found any good finnish channel
12:31:56 <mur> that is why i am not on any finnish channel
12:32:15 <mur> there are those massive thousand people channels but who bothers joining the
12:32:15 <mur> m
12:33:27 <gilbertbsd> so where are the finnish women on iRc then?
12:33:38 <gilbertbsd> I went to ircnet#weezer and its quiet.
12:33:41 <mur> probably on good channels that i have not found ;)
12:33:45 <gilbertbsd> heh.
12:34:17 <mur> i was on #kortex, was okay, but it is student aparment channel for certain area, so it was not really suitable for me 
12:38:13 <Kitanin> [20:35] <lars_g> Ada looks nice, thanks
12:38:15 <gilbertbsd> good. now how do I say 'hello'?
12:38:30 <gilbertbsd> kitanin you have changed the life of 1 person!
12:38:33 <gilbertbsd> thats good.
12:38:52 <Kitanin> I've turned him into an Ada programmer, though.  :-)
12:39:32 <mur> gilbertbsd, terve is one greeting
12:39:42 <mur> it also mean "healthy" and "in good condition"
12:39:45 <mur> 2frisk"
12:39:55 <gilbertbsd> whats uninukku ?
12:40:04 <mur> a typo
12:40:07 <mur> >:)
12:40:22 <mur> someone said it? if yes who?
12:40:43 <mur> uni = sleep, dreams, dream in deep dream
12:40:44 <gilbertbsd> <-- Incer has quit (uninukku)
12:40:53 <mur> nukkuu = is sleeping
12:40:57 <mur> nukkua = to sleep
12:41:09 <mur> nukkumaan = (going) to sleep
12:41:29 <mur> or go to sleep sometimes
12:41:41 <onetom> kehtolaulu = lullaby song ;)
12:41:47 <onetom> or sg like that
12:42:08 <gilbertbsd> well, I just told them 'mur' 
12:42:15 <mur> ?
12:42:27 <gilbertbsd> to see what would happen?
12:42:27 <mur> gilbertbsd, better paste whole lines :)
12:42:35 <mur> murr murr is what bears say in finnish
12:42:43 <mur> it's groarr
12:43:27 <gilbertbsd> yeah I know thats what bears say in finnish.
12:43:32 <gilbertbsd> they say brum in swedish.
12:43:55 <gilbertbsd> porfafor
12:44:03 <mur> gilbertbsd, are you swedish?
12:44:09 <gilbertbsd> nope :)
12:44:14 <gilbertbsd> I learnt that from Robert.
12:44:16 <mur> where from?
12:44:30 * gilbertbsd is sitting in Miami right now thinking in English.
12:44:32 <gilbertbsd> ;)
12:44:43 <mur> location does not matter but native language and cultural history more
12:44:52 <gilbertbsd> historically, I dunno.
12:45:00 <gilbertbsd> somewhere off in the atlantic I guess.
12:45:13 <gilbertbsd> egypt maybe?
12:45:29 <gilbertbsd> or is that israel? where does EVERYONE originally come from?
12:45:38 <gilbertbsd> mesopotamia I think.
12:46:05 <gilbertbsd> or is that persia? origins confuse me.
12:46:25 <mur> uh
12:46:27 <mur> africa
12:46:36 <gilbertbsd> really? its a pretty big place.
12:46:40 <mur> biological does not matter
12:46:44 <mur> central africa
12:46:47 <gilbertbsd> hahaha.
12:46:48 <mur> from jungle
12:46:55 <gilbertbsd> I think not. 
12:46:57 <mur> not a joke 
12:47:19 <gilbertbsd> the apes and the apezoids went to the jungle, and the humanoids stayed by the coast.
12:47:45 <gilbertbsd> whats this: Aydeme! Haga las ovejas se van!
12:50:03 <mur> but africa
12:50:32 <gilbertbsd> africa has coasts. thats not a problem!
12:51:48 <mur> yes but not israel, persia or mesopotamia
12:52:12 <mur> cultural history i said meant rather personal history
12:52:16 <mur> and cultural background
12:52:24 <mur> personal history in cultural sense
12:53:10 <gilbertbsd> how close are you to iceland?
12:58:26 * gilbertbsd is gonna marry bjork and needs to know how to find her.
12:58:34 <gilbertbsd> she doesn't know i'm coming so please... shhhhh!
13:05:59 <mur> heh
13:06:07 <mur> about 2000 km maybe
13:06:18 <gilbertbsd> thats far.
13:06:49 <gilbertbsd> I wonder if yahoomaps will give me the current location of Bjork.
13:07:55 <mur> ;)
13:08:18 <mur> gilbertbsd,  are you still on #kortex?
13:08:23 <gilbertbsd> yes
13:08:32 <gilbertbsd> pulla is being hostile.
13:08:41 <mur> he is just teasing
13:08:44 <mur> ignore him
13:09:03 <mur> did you told about me?
13:09:12 <gilbertbsd> yep.
13:09:18 <mur> what did you say?
13:09:20 <gilbertbsd> he says its a private channel.
13:09:37 <gilbertbsd> I said mur@freenode.net#forth told me about this place.
13:09:44 <mur> ask for others opinoin
13:09:53 <mur> that will cause nice conflict >:)
13:10:16 --- quit: tathi ("leaving")
13:10:25 <mur> are there any of following persons : tuma, tupuna .. uhm well any of those? :)
13:10:40 <gilbertbsd> don't mind about pulla, he's got a couple of loose screw
13:10:43 <gilbertbsd> yep.
13:10:48 <gilbertbsd> someone just sent me that message.
13:11:37 <mur> what message?
13:11:40 <mur> both of them?
13:11:48 <gilbertbsd> I got that from slind
13:11:53 <gilbertbsd> he /msg ed that to me.
13:12:10 <mur> hehe
13:12:14 <mur> he was hostile to me too
13:12:22 <mur> he claimed i'm not academical elite >:)
13:12:40 <mur> well then i was not in uni
13:12:43 <mur> now i am
13:12:52 <gilbertbsd> what does he study? 1400-1402 pre Finnish history in the caves?
13:12:53 <mur> and yet more elite uni ;)
13:13:05 <mur> cs or physics or maths
13:13:20 <mur> so is there tupuna and tuma =
13:13:20 <mur> ?
13:13:39 <gilbertbsd> tupuna and tuma are not speaking.
13:13:45 <mur> no wonder
13:13:47 <mur> i'll join
13:13:50 <mur> ltns
13:13:57 --- quit: Herkamire ("leaving")
13:14:04 <gilbertbsd> slind says there is no school better than theirs.
13:15:13 <gilbertbsd> which means what?
13:16:54 <mur> hehe
13:17:36 <mur> noffing
13:17:43 <Kitanin> Presumably, that their school is the best.  :-)
13:17:53 <gilbertbsd> wow. I just realised how little I know about finland.
13:17:55 <mur> nah it is not
13:18:04 <gilbertbsd> I know some finnish-americans but thats it.
13:18:11 <mur> Uni of Hki is one of the best in finland
13:18:19 <mur> and UIAH is one of the best in world in industrial arts
13:18:28 <mur> Hki best in europe
13:18:36 <mur> also finland, but i didn't meant to say that :)
13:19:39 <gilbertbsd> what kind of movies do you make in finland?
13:19:48 <Kitanin> Well, Finland's usually considered part of Europe, isn't it?
13:20:02 <Robert> Heh.
13:20:03 <Robert> No.
13:20:09 <Robert> Finland is its own continent.
13:20:20 <Robert> No civilization, no real language, etc.
13:20:23 <gilbertbsd> hahaha
13:20:46 <Robert> mur: ;) 
13:20:51 <gilbertbsd> whats the most famous thing from finland?
13:21:34 <Kitanin> The inventor of C++.  Which says a lot about Finland.  :-)
13:21:40 <mur> Robert, ;)
13:21:46 <gilbertbsd> I thought he was dutch?
13:22:17 <mur> Finland is always in europe
13:22:18 <mur> duh
13:22:25 <mur> and finnish is very ownish language
13:22:32 <mur> gilbertbsd, all kind of
13:22:34 <mur> duh
13:22:35 <mur> :)
13:22:50 <gilbertbsd> like what?
13:23:30 <mur> what what
13:23:51 <gilbertbsd> whats famous and is from finland apart from the minckienens?
13:24:15 <Kitanin> Oh!  Oh!  Linux!  Wait, that's still not a very good argument in Finland's favour.  :-)
13:24:15 <Robert> Saunas.
13:24:19 <Robert> Naked men in heaps.
13:24:28 <Kitanin> Fins?
13:24:32 <gilbertbsd> of course. Linux and IRC
13:24:36 <gilbertbsd> how could i forget?
13:24:49 <mur> Equality
13:25:04 <Kitanin> Vodka?
13:25:09 <mur> what is finnish i woudl say Equality is
13:25:17 <gilbertbsd> linus is
13:25:24 <mur> we dont separate female and male even in language
13:25:45 <mur> and in colloquial languages we dont separate even objects and animals from humans
13:25:54 <Robert> You mean there are no females in Finland?
13:26:00 <gilbertbsd> robert thats what I think.
13:26:01 <mur> we are one of the very most equal
13:26:01 <Robert> Hm
13:26:12 <gilbertbsd> mur so do you oppress anyone?
13:26:15 <Robert> So you think females and animals are the same?
13:26:35 * Kitanin decides not to touch that question.
13:26:47 <mur> Robert, dont try to lead to wrong paths
13:26:55 <mur> bad boy, Robert
13:26:56 <Robert> Kitanin: Afraid of government reprisals?
13:27:13 <mur> oppress?
13:27:32 <gilbertbsd> yeah. 
13:27:54 <gilbertbsd> see how we try to oppress Saddam in the name of world freedom?
13:28:01 <Kitanin> Well, as a Canadian, I'm afraid of our Prime Minister _pronouncing_ "reprisals".  Does that count?  :-)
13:28:02 <gilbertbsd> does finland have anything like that?
13:29:02 <mur> how does world become more free if you take freedom away from someone?
13:29:04 <Robert> gilbertbsd: They attacked Stalin.
13:29:20 <Robert> gilbertbsd: (Stupid finns... Stalin taught them a lesson)
13:29:20 <mur> what is reprisal?
13:29:30 <Robert> mur: Reprissalier, på svenska.
13:29:35 <mur> what is that then?
13:29:40 <Robert> Revenge!
13:29:53 <Robert> Kind of punishment.
13:30:05 <Robert> I'm sure someone else would explain it ten times better.
13:30:56 <gilbertbsd> afraid of the gov't punishing you.
13:31:34 <mur> uh?
13:31:40 <mur> why woudl goverment punish us?
13:31:43 <mur> stupidity
13:31:46 <gilbertbsd> hehe.
13:31:50 <gilbertbsd> come to America man.
13:31:56 <mur> that was nto answer
13:32:06 <mur> finland is better in many aspects
13:32:13 <mur> we are the most educated people
13:32:16 <mur> least corrupted
13:32:24 <mur> and perhaps the most equal in world
13:32:36 <Robert> Let's stop being nationalists for a while.
13:32:55 <mur> Robert too bad swedish tree accomodation is cold winter time :( 
13:32:59 <gilbertbsd> hmmm. is there a famous swedish musician?
13:33:07 <Robert> mur: Heh.
13:33:13 <mur> gilbertbsd tarzan
13:33:18 <Kitanin> gilbert: does Abba count?
13:33:25 <Robert> gilbertbsd: ABBA! Cornelius Wreeswijk, although we imported him from the Netherlands.
13:33:38 <gilbertbsd> abba is not finnish!
13:33:44 <Robert> 22:32 < gilbertbsd> hmmm. is there a famous swedish musician?
13:33:47 <Robert> SWEDISH.
13:33:52 <mur> <mur> gilbertbsd tarzan
13:34:12 <gilbertbsd> I meant finnish.
13:34:18 * gilbertbsd doesn't know tarzan.
13:34:19 <mur> sibelius?
13:34:22 <gilbertbsd> ah YEs.
13:34:25 <gilbertbsd> I know sibelius
13:34:38 <Robert> Anyone in the last century?
13:35:05 <mur> Robert, too bad sweden only has tree accomodation and you may drom from the tree branch if you fall in sleep 
13:35:11 <mur> drom/drop
13:35:31 <Robert> Heh, I think someone should stop eating these finnish mushrooms.
13:35:44 <mur> Robert, well you can still stop
13:35:54 <mur> Robert, unless you are too addicted
13:36:26 <mur> oh have you tasted this green mushroom, it's exported to sweden a lot nowdays
13:36:27 <gilbertbsd> I actually have some Sibelius lp's.
13:37:42 <Robert> "Vårt land, vårt land, vårt fosterland! ..."
13:40:06 <mur> Robert, what do you eat winter time when there is 2 metres of snow on ground?
13:41:19 <Robert> Finnish women.
13:41:29 <gilbertbsd> Robert there aren't any of those.
13:41:49 <mur> gilbertbsd, dont trust everything what robert says
13:41:57 <mur> 95% of women in irc are finnish
13:42:08 <mur> actaully you are talkign with females all the time :)
13:42:20 <gilbertbsd> but you aren't one of them.
13:43:21 <mur> no
13:43:22 <mur> :)
13:43:28 <mur> but Robert has proposed me anyways
13:43:31 <mur> you know swedish males
13:43:50 <mur> but whom of them is female i will not tell you >:)
13:44:02 <mur> is/are
13:52:14 <gilbertbsd> there are lots of " T's " in finnish.
13:57:23 <mur> ?
14:00:14 <Robert> Lots of J:s and Ä:s.
14:00:40 <mur> not too many Robert's
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14:17:40 <mur> mää!
14:17:47 <mur> :sleep;
14:18:15 <mur> (it has not yet been developed)
14:18:16 <mur> ;)
15:14:23 <Kitanin> Hmm...
15:16:00 <Robert> Right.
15:16:09 * Robert is starting to shut his mind down.
15:16:35 * mur only sleeps night time
15:16:44 <mur> i am not vampire
15:16:49 <mur> so i can not revive every morning
15:20:52 * Kitanin has discovered the joys of a deferred semicolon, and is stripping dozens of lines of code out. Yay!
15:22:25 <gilbertbsd> what does it do?
15:23:05 <Kitanin> Eliminates the hassle of making sure you've got the right ;foo for your foo:, for one.  :-)
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15:31:32 <futh> somebody tell me who Fractal is
15:31:52 <gilbertbsd> his real name is "communists do it without class"
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15:32:45 <futh> hey calgarian
15:33:51 <Kitanin> Hey.
15:34:01 <futh> do you know who Fractal is?
15:34:02 <futh> i forget
15:34:45 <Kitanin> Fractal, who are you?  (Who-who are you...)
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