00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.01.28 00:47:02 --- quit: skylan (Remote closed the connection) 00:47:25 --- join: skylan (sjh@207.164.213.82) joined #forth 01:18:09 --- quit: Speuler ("Client Exiting") 02:34:33 --- quit: skylan (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 02:35:24 --- join: skylan (sjh@207.164.213.135) joined #forth 03:07:44 --- quit: skylan (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 03:08:00 --- join: skylan (sjh@207.164.213.119) joined #forth 03:13:28 --- quit: Rk (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03:53:31 --- join: onetom_ (~tom@novtan.bio.u-szeged.hu) joined #forth 03:55:41 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 03:57:50 --- quit: onetom (Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable)) 04:11:38 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 04:50:29 --- join: Speuler (~l@mnch-d9ba4d6f.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth 04:50:36 'morning 05:23:34 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 05:49:42 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 06:13:22 --- join: Rk (~arke@gen3-camarillo8-206.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 06:14:51 --- quit: Rk (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:24:41 --- join: Rk (~arke@gen3-camarillo8-206.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 06:30:15 hello 06:30:35 --- quit: Rk ("Client Exiting") 07:11:00 --- join: CaffeinJunkie (~l@mnch-d9ba45c4.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth 07:15:46 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@wsip68-15-54-54.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 07:22:15 --- quit: Speuler (Connection timed out) 07:25:14 --- nick: CaffeinJunkie -> Speuler 08:09:47 --- join: hp48nik (xru52729fj@1Cust97.tnt4.vancouver.bc.da.uu.net) joined #forth 08:14:26 --- part: hp48nik left #forth 08:28:30 --- quit: Speuler (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:48:01 --- join: gilbertbsd (~knoppix@67.97.122.120) joined #forth 08:49:31 where did everybody go to? 08:59:42 goto? hey its not the basic channel ;) 08:59:49 nick onetom 08:59:53 --- nick: onetom_ -> onetom 09:00:33 heheh. 09:00:46 now that Djikstra is dead, goto is no longer harmful. 09:01:19 :) 09:01:33 4th is based on gotos 09:01:36 besides, asm is FULL of 'gotos'. 09:01:38 touche. 09:01:45 the end of each words is jmp next 09:07:04 onetom do you listen to Jazz? 09:07:46 sure 09:08:07 I am beginning to think programming is like a jazz performance. 09:08:31 each jazz musician is usually made up of stars. 09:08:47 stats? 09:08:59 stars? 09:09:05 yes. Great musicians. 09:09:18 aha 09:09:26 and they perform compositions the way they want to. 09:09:33 aha 09:10:09 so they have a common theme, and they do what they want with it. 09:10:54 :) nice paralellism.. 09:11:14 & what were u doing when this idea came in2 ur mind? 09:11:33 my new roommate was re-introducing me to Thelonius Monk. 09:11:42 reintro? 09:11:43 A lot of standard jazz tunes were composed by him. 09:11:44 thatis? 09:11:49 yup 09:12:16 I had heard some thelonious monk but I had not payed close attention. However I had heard his compositions performed by some other jazz musicians and I liked them. 09:12:28 aha 09:13:02 so the standard algorithms are the compositions... 09:13:13 how they are used depends on the performer. 09:14:38 hm... :) its getting better & better 09:14:42 and what the performer uses (instrument) is the language. 09:14:49 the audience is the platform :D 09:14:53 lol 09:15:48 so you might have a home audience in a certain bar (x86, windows) or a foreign audience in an unknown bar (sparc, solaris) or variations thereof. 09:17:54 tell me more! i like this ..... hasonlat 09:18:10 bar? 09:18:15 a saloon? 09:19:11 yes. 09:19:18 some platforms are small and tiny (embedded) 09:19:30 some are large (concert halls, enterprise wide systems) :D 09:19:50 so you may have a tiny bar performance in a used bookstore somewhere ... 09:24:10 so instead of thinking of a programming project as a classical piece with one conductor and several performers, it might be easier to think of it as a Jazz piece. 09:24:46 in a classical piece, the music is fixed with little or no variation from the day it was created, everyone follows the script religiously and the conductor is the only one allowed to shine. 09:25:36 the individuals are then just instruments and not musicians because the conductor will sneeze at them IF they were to bring in their own compositions. 09:30:32 great ideas 09:30:48 ive already spreaded it 2 2 other channels 09:31:12 & i made a phone call 2 a sysadmin frined who is just about 2 learn 2 play the piano 09:31:22 they were all impressed.. 09:31:30 I am humbled. 09:32:34 :) me 2 09:33:53 this channel long time not heard so perscious thoughts 09:38:07 so how do you suppose it will make things different? 09:41:10 --- join: I440r (~mark4@ip209-183-83-66.ts.indy.net) joined #forth 09:41:19 well.. this can b used 2 09:41:22 oops 09:41:30 Hey 09:41:32 * onetom caught 09:41:57 can b used 2 convince company leaders about many things 09:42:24 coz lot of them r sophisticated enough 2 understand jazz 09:42:49 larger company leaders of coures.. & hungarian 1s, not us 1s.. 09:43:06 --- join: rafe (~rafe@www.scinq.org) joined #forth 09:43:40 onetom jazz is popular, but not sooo popular. 09:44:05 people know more about Kenn G(orelick) than about Thelonius Monk. Kenny G is not a jazz musician IMAO. 09:44:22 so it might be lost a little in translation. 09:44:32 :( 09:52:58 --- join: wossname (wossname@HSE-QuebecCity-ppp81031.qc.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 09:56:55 jazz. 4 men playing 4 different songs at the same time 09:57:01 or.... 09:57:07 ONE man playing 4 different songs at the same time :) 09:57:08 heh 09:57:22 hehehe 09:57:23 ;) 09:57:46 :)))) 09:57:48 not very different from programming I think. 10:14:02 gilbertbsd: lol 10:15:26 Herkamire: very sophisticated ________ , huh? isnt it? :) 10:16:04 I am trying to beat our sonicwall firewall and I have everything through except for chat.yahoo.com 10:17:34 hey! som1 tell lil poor tom what is the correct word 4 this! 10:17:42 for ? 10:17:55 01-28 19:19:48 < onetom> Herkamire: very sophisticated ________ , huh? isnt it? :) 10:18:00 01-28 18:22:17 < onetom> tell me more! i like this ..... hasonlat 10:18:14 whats hasonlat? 10:18:48 thats what im curious about 10:18:56 what might it mean? 10:19:00 that thing u were saying 10:19:13 that comparision/paralellism 10:19:44 --- join: lament (~lament@h24-78-145-92.vc.shawcable.net) joined #forth 10:20:43 onetom: analogy 10:21:12 thats it 10:21:17 u won the speakers ;) 10:27:07 I want to win something too. 10:27:13 let me win the wires. 10:28:36 :)) gil won the wires! 10:28:44 thank you thank you. 10:28:52 I will like to thank my lawyer, Bob you were great. 10:28:59 My producer Jim, 10:29:14 My annoying brothers the twelve apostles. 10:29:21 ummm... and everyone for this award. 10:29:30 I am doing this for geekKind even though I am not a geek. 10:29:43 This award represents a great milestone for geekdom as well. 10:29:45 :))) 10:29:48 david holmes kicks ass 10:29:53 how? 10:30:10 alot! 10:30:13 just an announcement. he kicks ass 10:32:23 who wants a gritty shaker? 10:33:24 gimme a gritty shaker. 10:33:55 coming right up 10:47:25 ah I got it. 10:48:10 njoy 10:55:19 it rocks, yes? 10:56:54 yes I like it. 11:07:19 --- quit: I440r (Excess Flood) 11:07:36 --- join: I440r (~mark4@ip209-183-83-66.ts.indy.net) joined #forth 11:45:50 lament? 11:52:49 --- quit: wossname ("":D") 12:04:57 --- quit: skylan (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:05:04 --- join: skylan (sjh@Sprint27.tbaytel.net) joined #forth 12:23:56 --- join: male (~male@24.33.30.124) joined #forth 12:26:52 : coffee 40 * cup drink ; 12:26:56 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:27:23 coffee 12:27:46 Did it work? ;-) 12:28:16 no I am hungry now. 12:28:21 only 40 cups ? definatly only a half hours ration of coffee :P 12:28:45 coffee dup 12:28:46 Pff... caffeine addicts! 12:29:07 Well, my percolator limits me to making 40 cups at a time. 12:29:08 I don't drink coffee I drink tea. 12:29:30 I drink tea also, but only when I run out of coffee. 12:33:22 --- join: proteusguy (~username@65.191.88.177) joined #forth 12:33:53 but coffee causes cancer in lab rats and other small animals! 12:34:00 You know, Forth and Coffee have a few things in common. 12:34:06 like? 12:34:08 They both help you get things done faster. 12:34:21 They both introduce more bugs into your programs. 12:34:29 They both smell nice. 12:34:45 Well, perhaps I've run out of steam on that last one. 12:35:32 ;) 12:35:40 tea is flavored hot water. 12:36:38 Wouldn't it be interesting if there was an industrial espresso machine out there somewhere with a control process written in Forth? 12:36:49 It certainly seems like a possibility. 12:36:59 it sounds feasible. 12:37:34 Engineers are sick like that. 12:41:01 You know they're putting Windows CE in cars now. 12:41:32 And playing the role of ECU no less. 12:44:38 is that legal? 12:46:45 Perhaps. Safe? I think not. 12:47:18 It seems they have a tendency to.. Freak out. 12:47:53 Let me see if I can find an article about it. 12:49:32 Straight from the mouth of the devil: http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2002/mar02/03-04BMWpr.asp 12:50:19 http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2002/mar02/03-04BMWpr.asp 12:50:29 Err. 12:50:36 http://www.baselinemag.com/article2/0,3959,833939,00.asp?kc=BAZD103019TX1K0100547 12:54:55 why would anyone wanna have a MS product driving around their car? 12:55:30 Well, I personally don't even want a computer controlled engine. 12:55:51 If it requires that kind of controller than it wasn't designed very well to begin with. 12:56:35 These days they let the ECU cope with failing components instead of just building a soild engine to begin with. 12:57:20 But hell, I don't even use anti-lock breaks. 12:58:32 what do you use? a horse and buggy? 12:59:53 Ha. A volvo with a cast iron block and a manual transmission ;-) 13:00:10 are those hard/expensive to maintain? 13:00:29 Actually because of the design they're one of the easiest cars to work on. 13:00:49 And whether it is expensive just depends on how many other people in your area own them. 13:00:59 Memphis is full of volvos, so that's not a problem for me. 13:01:35 whats the safest old one I can buy? 13:01:42 I am in the car buying market :D 13:02:23 Well, they've been pretty safe cars since the inception. For instanceVolvo was the first of install four wheel disc breaks. 13:03:27 Mine is an '85, but I've owned an '88 before. I'd say that '86-87 is the sweet spot. Although, in 1992 volvo put out a Classic remake of the 240 wagon (what I have) that had airbags and all that. 13:03:51 I wouldn't go older than 85 though, because that's before the bodies were rust proofed. 13:04:53 --- quit: rafe ("Client Exiting") 13:05:03 so it would be safe to look for 86..92 ? 13:05:04 The reason 86 is good is that the 82-85's had an 'eco-friendly' insulation on the wiring harness that tended to rot out. 13:06:04 Definately. You could even go newer than that, but you'd only be able to get a 740 or 960. The brand new volvos now are made by Ford, and therefore just as poor quality as any ford. 13:07:00 Want to see some photos of mine? 13:07:39 http://karma.darktech.org/~male/volvo/ 13:08:39 You should be able to get one for under $2000. Depending on quality. The really nice ones go for around $6000, and the Classic is about $9000. 13:08:40 yours is well kept. 13:09:34 what might I get for under 2grand? 13:09:39 Yeah, but a lot of them aren't. Usually its the interior that goes first More so with the vinyl than the cloth. 13:10:23 That depends on how lucky you get. I got mine for $2800, and the one I hadbefore ('88) for $1600. 13:10:59 Most volvos are sold owner to owner, so I wouldn't bother with a dealer. 13:11:34 You live in florida right? 13:11:56 yep. miami 13:12:32 That's good because any volvo that grew up there will definitely not be rusted no matter what year. 13:13:31 are the caravans more expensive? 13:13:32 --- join: wossname (wossname@HSE-QuebecCity-ppp81031.qc.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 13:14:03 ie the sort you have? 13:14:49 The wagons? Perhaps a bit. But I think they're worth it. Usually the difference isn't very big. Also, the wagons tend to be in better condition because they're either owned by moms or volvo lovers. 13:15:06 ah I see. 13:17:13 I see a 1990 740 @ 1800 13:17:29 and a 91 640 @ 2000 OBO 13:17:36 740 13:18:37 Where at? 13:18:49 www.theflyer.com 13:18:52 here in miami-dade 13:19:24 You might look on ebay. Also, check out www.brickboard.com. Sometimes people post adds. There might be someone in your area. 13:20:06 You should be able to find some pictures of the different models there too. 13:20:28 I don't care for the look/feel of the 740's much. 13:20:51 They look a bit like japanese cars. 13:21:03 But, hey.. That was the style at the time ;-) 13:21:51 are they as reliable as japanese cars? 13:22:59 Much more so. Probably because they're far less complex. Vovlo has made some of the most reliable cars ever. It isn't uncommon to have one go 1,000,000 miles. 13:23:38 The average life is about 400,000. But it all depends on how you care for it. 13:23:53 so for the mileage what should I go for to be safe? 13:25:38 Well, if it is over 100,000 miles you might want to ask if the air-mass meter has been replaced. That's about a $500 part (new) and usually fails every 100,000 miles. I've gotten them for < $20 at junk yards though.. But generally just make sure that they've kept it up, changing oil, belts and whatnot when appropriate. 13:27:26 You can tell if the air-mass meter is going out because the fuel will run too rich and your milage will go to shit. 13:27:49 But hey, that might be the reason some fool is selling it cheap and you could take advantage of that ;-) 13:28:54 But other than that there's really no limit on the milage, so long as it doesn't leak oil or anything like that it should continue to operate for many years. 13:31:23 Oh, another neat thing about the wagons is that the back seat folds down giving you a cargo space the size of a "full size" bed. That might come in handy if you have a wife and don't want to pay for a hotel in addition to the cost of a prostitute. 13:31:59 Wait, did I say that out loud? 13:32:25 hahaha. 13:32:38 I s'pose 3 somes are healthy. 13:34:06 are there models to avoiD? 13:36:15 Well, I would of course avoid the brand new ones. But other than that no. I mean, I'm sure you wouldn't want to buy a 120 from the sixties or anything. 13:36:27 Those are collector's items. 13:38:12 I just want to get a cheap vehicle ( 1200 < ) to drive around. 13:38:32 if it will take me from here to oregon and back, all the better 13:38:37 I meant < 2000 13:39:46 Well, if you just want a work horse you should be able to find one for under$1000. 13:39:53 under 1000? 13:40:23 Yeah, like a painter's car that's all fucked up on the inside but get's you where you want to go. 13:41:19 Oh, btw. A good 240 wagon should get about 28 mpg. And a sedan 30. 13:42:07 That's with a 12 or 15 gallon tank. 13:42:24 did volvo ever make diesel vehicles? 13:43:25 Yes, some with turbos. 13:44:54 I think volkswagen made the engine for those, though. Same with the six-cylinders. Not many of them are still on the road if you get my drift. 13:45:32 http://www3.bc.sympatico.ca/Volvo_Books/specart11.html 13:46:57 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 13:46:57 Mercedes used to make a sweet little diesil wagon. I'm not sure about the milage though. 13:48:28 Yeah, looks like they got around 29 mpg. 13:48:36 hi folks 13:48:40 Not too good for a diesil. 13:48:44 the diesel wagon still exists doesn't it? 13:48:58 the Mercedes G. it is fast becoming another yuppie toy. 13:49:12 A vehicle which has been around since the early '80s! 13:49:36 yuppie-stupie :)) 13:49:47 It seems that the volvo diesils got around 40 mpg. 13:50:08 I like diesel. 13:50:21 Me too, nice sound. Besides, it keeps you from speeding ;-) 13:50:25 Even though using the fuel itself its one of the greatest polluters, you can EASILY use another fuel! 13:50:46 diesel is too complex :)) 13:50:58 I've wanted to go to alcohol for a long time ;-) 13:51:15 here in RU cars what can't be repaired by oneself are avoided 13:51:36 by maybe 80% car owners 13:51:42 some people use cooking oil. 13:51:54 serg do you have a Niva? 13:51:56 or a Lada? 13:51:57 Which is just about the cheapest fule there is. 13:52:13 i dont have a car :) 13:52:20 Smells like french fries all the time too ;-) 13:52:26 w/ our road jams, subway is faster in city :) 13:52:39 you can get used cooking oil (maybe free) from Mickydees and do something to make it run your diesel car. 13:53:12 and to kill ur HPFP 13:53:18 hi press fuel pump 13:54:08 I'm pretty sure you can run on it as is.. Perhaps with a little caustic to thin it out. 13:54:37 But hell, even if you have to buy the oil it is still cheaper than petrol. 13:54:54 much much cheaper. 13:55:05 how much money will u risk :) 13:55:10 ? 13:55:16 2 dollars / 200 miles. 13:55:20 What do you mean risk, Serg? 13:55:33 damage to hi-press fuel pump 13:55:40 It won't damage a diesil engine. 13:56:04 Diesil is pretty much just dirty water from the center of the earth ;-) 13:56:04 :))) here bad fuel often kills 'em 13:56:55 some heavy fractions - and all tiny pipes look like hardsmoker's lungs 13:57:57 but thats for petrol engines no? 13:58:11 Ford Transit is quite popular van here 13:58:32 its diesel is often taken out of order by here's poor fuel 13:59:10 while native tractors may run even on devil blood :) 13:59:13 ah here in the Great US, good fuel is available cheap thanks to our iron fisted control over greedy tyrants. 13:59:50 EU cars suck here coz of our winter 14:00:08 -30 cold and 30cm deep snow 14:00:14 I thought you guys stuck with Nivas! 14:00:27 fu... Niva ! 14:00:56 why? what would you rather have? 14:00:57 it has 4wd all the time, no turnoff 14:01:49 our company has military 4wd van w/ turnoff-able head axis 14:01:58 whats it called? 14:02:03 so 4wd in snow, rear drive on good way 14:02:05 the 4wdnyet? 14:02:13 GAZ-something, dunno 14:02:34 is it german? 14:02:41 no, native 14:02:42 its not the Pinzgauer is it? 14:02:46 petrol, no diesel 14:02:48 ah okay. 14:03:20 one damn day mercedes 2ton truck arrived..... 14:03:30 ~10 men had to push it 14:03:55 it could go on road but 3m in a yard - and it stuck 14:04:17 Have to go do laundry. See you fellows later. 14:04:25 just today, 10m from our door : 14:04:50 jeep sits deadly, one head wheel turns in air 14:05:01 one rear - in a snowpit 14:05:13 4wd, but 4 men to push :((( 14:05:27 --- quit: male ("User disconnected") 14:05:58 it was standing on 3 wheels, one rear - on ice 14:06:08 so even 4wd may be helpless :) 14:06:56 you need a winch. 14:07:03 winch ? 14:07:04 An old landrover with a winch. 14:07:06 yep. 14:07:46 damn thing to bootstrap out self by rope ? 14:10:47 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 14:14:16 --- quit: Herkamire ("leaving") 14:18:41 --- quit: wossname ("bleh") 14:46:37 --- quit: TreyB () 15:03:12 --- quit: I440r ("Reality Strikes Again") 15:03:31 --- join: Speuler (~l@mnch-d9ba45c4.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth 15:03:46 'morning 15:05:24 --- join: semtex (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba45c4.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth 15:05:28 morning? 15:06:02 is morning for me 15:06:47 --- part: semtex left #forth 15:07:04 --- quit: lament (Remote closed the connection) 15:21:40 --- quit: gilbertbsd (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:21:40 --- quit: Robert (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:22:23 --- join: gilbertbsd (~knoppix@67.97.122.120) joined #forth 15:22:23 --- join: Robert (~snofs@h138n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #forth 15:23:04 why don't I ever get splatnit ? 15:23:16 am I special? 15:25:58 --- join: I440r (~mark4@ip209-183-83-66.ts.indy.net) joined #forth 15:28:33 --- part: gilbertbsd left #forth 15:33:23 --- join: Rk (~arke@gen3-camarillo8-206.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 15:44:35 --- join: male (~male@cpe-024-033-030-124.midsouth.rr.com) joined #forth 15:55:22 ay! 15:55:30 Indeed. 15:55:56 arke :)) 15:56:00 gotcha 15:57:02 --- join: gilbertbsd (~knoppix@67.97.122.120) joined #forth 16:20:10 Want to hear something funny, gil? 16:20:50 Someone just asked me if I would sell my Volvo while I was at the laundry mat. 16:21:50 really? 16:21:58 how much are you willing to give it up for? 16:29:10 --- join: lament (~lament@h24-78-145-92.vc.shawcable.net) joined #forth 16:32:40 --- join: fridge (meldrum@zipperii.zip.com.au) joined #forth 16:34:11 Oh, I told them no ;-) 16:34:32 you should have pointed them to ebay or something. 16:34:46 The guy said that he used to own a sedan just like mine, but crashed it. 16:35:04 that'll teach him to crash a volvo. 16:35:09 ;-) 16:38:00 I have never seen a modified Volvo come to think of it. 16:38:47 most mods are of hondas and those others. 16:38:57 Some people mod the 740's for rally racing. 16:39:32 But that's mainly just adding off-road lights and boosting the engine. 16:39:41 None of this low-rider stuff ;-) 16:41:33 I think I should try to find a volvo200 16:42:37 it looks good and cheap. 16:43:56 --- quit: I440r ("Reality Strikes Again") 16:44:26 homework hell ! 16:44:26 Well, it might behoove you to know that in the 200 series the first number is the model (2) the second number is the cylinder count (4) and the third number is the number of doors (ie, sedan is 244, wagon 245). But they're usually just called 240's. 16:44:56 no doors? 16:45:00 how do you get in? 16:45:05 windows :) 16:45:22 That is to say 0 stands for "any". 16:45:47 --- quit: Rk ("Client Exiting") 16:47:46 oh I see. 16:47:56 are there 6 cylinder volvos? 16:48:23 There were some 260s, but the engine was made by VW and didn't last more tha a few years. 16:48:49 Most people just put a chevvy in them and never looked back. 16:49:36 --- join: Rk (~arke@gen3-camarillo8-206.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 16:55:56 the 740's are newer right? 16:56:48 duh :D 16:57:13 when were the 240's created? 16:57:39 Well, the 740's ran along side for a while. 16:59:32 74? 16:59:57 I'd have to look it up. 17:01:44 Oo, Here's a picture of a vintage 120: http://volvoadventures.com/221.jpg 17:02:56 It would be interesting to know if anyone at Volvo ever used Forth internally. 17:06:48 I think they were one of the first to do computer simulated crash testing. 17:07:09 --- join: I440r (~nospam@ip209-183-83-66.ts.indy.net) joined #forth 17:07:25 Anyhow. 17:07:43 Oops.. Shh. I440r is back. 17:08:04 * I440r not all here 17:08:15 We already knew that ;-) 17:11:10 so starting from the 240's, it goes all the way to the 740s. When did ford take over? 17:11:17 when did they start getting rounded? 17:11:34 The rounding was pretty much all ford. 17:12:03 why did they need to round them? 17:13:21 They basically just made more fords and called them volvos. They bought the brand. 17:13:34 Volvo still makes trucks. 17:15:36 And now ford is making a 'volvo' SUV of all things. 17:17:21 get concept, paste EVERYWHERE is their motto 17:22:58 gil: http://www.artima.com/intv/speed.html 17:24:10 heh. 17:30:56 I find it amusing how in discussions on python and perl people talk aboutthe subjective readability of the code. They nit pick over "vexing terseness" while to someone who's used to reading Forth code Python looks like it's been written for a child to read. 17:31:27 Ditto with C. 17:32:04 Although, some people write C code with such meaningless symbol names they might as well have used an anonymous store like a stack. 17:32:48 np.sf++; nf.ei = fs.us->fe + pi--; 17:33:21 WTF? 17:34:12 Then you've got the other extreme WithSymbolNamesThatLookLikeThis. 17:34:24 Have they never heard of an underscore? 17:36:14 I don't mind that way, don't like it quite so long though 17:36:17 Oh, and I love it when assembly fellows try to write C code. It comes out with variables named after intel machine registers. 17:36:23 si++; goto bx; 17:37:26 Not having a lot of names really is a saving grace for Forth. It keeps programmers from being too misleading. 17:37:57 GenericLoopCounter 17:38:05 MicroSoftStartedIt. 17:38:25 That's unreadable. Especially to a non-native english speaker. 17:38:32 ring_a_ting_ting() 17:38:36 RingATingTing() 17:38:45 hmm, yeah 17:39:09 There should only ever be ONE underscore. If there's more you need to facto better. 17:39:26 dict_insert( "foo" ); 17:39:52 facto/factor. 17:40:44 And function pointers are your friend. 17:41:21 dict->insert_string( "foo" ); 17:42:22 I'll either wrap an ugly API or just implement the functionality myself. 17:42:46 I figure someone that NamesThingsLikeThis must not know how to writ a good library anyhow. 17:43:41 It usually turns out to be Java programmers ;-) 17:43:58 That or Visual Basic. 17:45:11 I'm I the only one who thinks it's a bad idea to let non-programmers write software? 17:45:35 I mean, I know it sounds noble and all. But do we really need more bad software? 17:47:03 after looking at the torrent of additions to freshmeat.net over the last 2 years, I'm beginnging to think we don't need quantity 17:47:10 Am I the only one that finds it amusing that the word RUN is only one fat finger away from RUIN? 17:47:18 phpMyCdBurner 17:47:47 Any programmer who puts My in a title is obviously an amature. 17:48:30 like MySQL 17:48:32 for instance 17:48:33 =) 17:49:13 Yes, infact. How MySQL has become so popular is beyond me. It's a joke of a database. 17:49:19 postgresql RULES 17:49:21 Or at least it was the last time I looked. 17:49:26 male "worse is better" 17:49:49 So it seems, gil. 17:51:26 I was telling 1tom earlier in the morning about how similar programming and jazz performance were. 17:51:35 or at least in my opinion. 17:51:54 all jazz musicians ARE musicians in their own right performing and improvising together. 17:53:17 does anyone know why this vehicle is not available here? http://graphics.theonion.com/pics_3903/un_orders_wonka_inspectors.jpg 17:53:59 gilbertbsd: shall i put ur sentences up 2 my wiki? 17:54:13 sure if it still sounds good :D 17:54:22 You're going to put what in your what what? 17:54:30 it still sounds very good 17:55:07 i also told it 2 my fater since then & he also liked it 17:56:14 I am capable of semi-original analogies perhaps? 18:05:58 1tom whats your wiki? 18:06:16