00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.01.25
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04:32:35 <Speuler> arke: ay too
04:35:02 <male> Eh?
04:35:39 <male> Is that just a Speulism?
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04:45:03 <Speuler> 07:03:52 <arke> onetom_ ay!
04:45:03 <Speuler> 07:03:52 <arke> Speuler ay!
04:45:03 <Speuler> 07:03:53 <arke> OrngeTide ay!
04:45:03 <Speuler> 0 ...
04:45:59 <Speuler> was hailing everyone in the channel
04:46:08 <Speuler> nobody was here
04:46:47 <onetom_> me was here
04:47:03 <Speuler> 07:14:31 <arke> onetom_ ay!
04:48:11 <Speuler> arke = Rk afaik
04:48:33 <Speuler> g'd mrng btw
04:49:08 <onetom_> mornin
04:49:38 <onetom_> 01-25 07:13:23 < arke> sma ay!
04:49:42 <onetom_> 01-25 07:18:33 < onetom_> arke: r u a "sayin-ay" bot? ;)
04:50:19 <Speuler> 07:14:31 <arke> onetom_ ay!
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04:50:20 <Speuler> 0
04:50:40 <onetom_> there was a lot of netspilts
04:50:53 <onetom_>           Fractal, ianni
04:50:53 <onetom_> 01-25 07:16:13 -!- Netsplit herbert.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: sma
04:50:53 <onetom_> 01-25 07:18:33 < onetom_> arke: r u a "sayin-ay" bot? ;)
04:50:53 <onetom_> 01-25 07:21:28 -!- Netsplit herbert.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: clog, Fractal, arke, proteusguy, 
04:50:56 <onetom_>           TreyB, Speuler, OrngeTide, ianni, skylan
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04:51:01 <onetom_>           ianni
04:51:39 <Speuler> u weren't quite in time i'm afraid
04:52:02 <Speuler> second yoy typed, you were out
04:52:07 <Speuler> ou
04:52:49 <Speuler> 07:14:31 <arke> onetom_ ay!
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04:52:51 <Speuler> 07
04:53:06 <Speuler> looks like split was on your side
04:53:17 <Speuler> you were the only one yoyoing here
04:59:06 <male> I have a question.. What's the most esoteric forth implementatio you fellows have ever seen?
04:59:18 <male> +n
04:59:32 <male> (I'm so sick of this client eating my 80'th character ;-))
05:01:32 <male> I'm surprised no one's written a forth in emacs lisp.
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05:04:47 <male> Ahh much better.
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05:26:38 <Speuler> male: define "esoteric" in context of programming language
05:30:03 <male> It generally means unpractical. Or odd for the sake of being odd.
05:30:39 <male> Many (uninitiated) people consider Forth to be an esoteric language.
05:32:19 <Speuler> how similar to non-esoteric forth would the most esoteric forth have to be to still be counted as forth ?
05:33:41 <male> Well, what I was really asking about was an esoteric implementation. That is, a normal forth system created in an esoteric environment. For example I know a fellow who once wrote a TRAC interpreter in a two page P-MATE macro.
05:34:13 <Speuler> ah.
05:34:26 <Speuler> probably my quarter-finished brainfuck-forth
05:34:58 <male> Can brainfuck do stacks?
05:35:02 <Speuler> no
05:35:08 <Speuler> not directly
05:35:11 <Speuler> well, sort of
05:35:19 <Speuler> but not the way forth likes them
05:35:45 <Speuler> i needed to implement an interface to absolute memory addressing first
05:36:20 <Speuler> so i can access a location by address, containing a stack pointer
05:37:14 <Speuler> brainfuck knows these operations:
05:37:24 <Speuler> +-<>[],.
05:37:33 <Speuler> no numbers
05:37:47 <Speuler> nothing else then those 8 "primitives"
05:37:54 <Speuler> it has one pointer
05:38:00 <male> Right. I've been aware of it for some time.
05:38:25 <male> Wouldn't it be easier to extent brainfuck to support stacks? That would only add a few instructions ;-)
05:38:47 <Speuler> yes, easier. but why bother to make it easier, and use brainfuck anyway ??
05:39:07 <Speuler> could just as well use asm
05:39:13 <Speuler> even easier
05:39:17 <male> Nah, brainfuck is portable ;-)
05:39:35 <Speuler> that was one thought when starting with that
05:41:22 <Speuler> its potential to inject a forth bootstrap would be considerable:)
05:42:16 <Speuler> but mostly, i started with that for the oddness-factor
05:42:32 <male> You might even get an award for the slowest Forth system ever ;-)
05:43:23 <Speuler> but if you add custom extensions to brainfuck, it wouldn't be portable anymore
05:44:02 <Speuler> (written an optimizing bf compiler/translator)
05:44:36 <Speuler> standard bf in - "optimized" language of choice of 4 out
05:44:40 <male> If you optimize it then why write it in brainfuck? Thing about it. You're doing all that work just to go and undo it again.
05:44:49 <male> thing/think.
05:44:57 <Speuler> nope. source stays the same
05:45:46 <Speuler> got a speed increase of about factor 10 ... 100
05:45:49 <male> Could you really call it a source? ;-)
05:45:55 <Speuler> sure
05:46:40 <Speuler> with selected sources, factor > 10000
05:46:46 <male> Hey, perhaps someone should implement brainfuck in silicon.
05:46:53 <lament> Speuler: if you're doing things like that, you should probably come to #esoteric
05:46:54 <Speuler> written for optimizability)
05:47:08 <lament> It's a bit quiet, though
05:47:14 <Speuler> lament: hmm
05:47:25 <male> When he says quite he means that it's just him.
05:47:29 <Speuler> got almost flamed for looking at forth written in python ...
05:47:46 <male> There are several Forths written in perl.
05:47:53 <Speuler> i'm not sure whether i should carry out in public any of those ambitions :)
05:48:17 <lament> don't worry, most people in #esoteric are freaks worse than yourself.
05:48:33 <Speuler> what's your esoteric project ?
05:49:26 <lament> I run brainfuck.sourceforge.net, although it's pretty much dead now
05:49:27 <male> Hey, I just realized something else.. Brainfuck is international.
05:49:39 <lament> And I'm just interested in things like that.
05:49:46 <Speuler> surprise
05:50:46 <Speuler> there's no #brainfuck channel on this net
05:51:05 * Speuler grins evilish
05:51:20 <male> That's what #esoteric is for
05:51:37 <lament> Exactly.
05:52:05 <male> Hmm. perhaps I should merge #trac into it ;-)
05:52:31 <Speuler> almost as many ppl there as on #forth !
05:54:38 <lament> What's #trac?
05:55:17 <male> TRAC is (was) a macro language.
05:55:25 <male> Text Reckoning And Compiling
05:55:51 <male> It was Calvin Moores' baby.
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09:06:52 <Robert> Hey.
09:07:01 <Robert> My ISP died for a day :/
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09:09:16 <Speuler> hi rob
09:09:20 <Speuler> since this morning ?
09:09:22 <Robert> Evening Speuler 
09:09:24 <Robert> Nah
09:09:28 <Robert> Since yesterday evening.
09:09:48 <Speuler> hmm. another reason
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09:16:58 <Speuler> Robert: noticed the net has been hit by a worm today ?
09:19:48 <male> I haven't noticed.
09:20:13 <Speuler> microsoft sql / MSDE attack
09:20:29 <Speuler> started about 12 h ago
09:20:35 <Speuler> peaked about 6 h ago
09:20:49 <Speuler> mostly back to normal now
09:21:16 <Speuler> ms sql port has been blocked at some spots
09:21:33 <Speuler> 5 root servers where "effectively down"
09:21:47 <Speuler> were
09:21:48 <male> Why are the roots running MS software?
09:22:06 <Speuler> nope. the load, additional traffic, caused it
09:22:37 <Speuler> mean to say "has probably caused it"
09:23:39 <Speuler> winmen were pretty quiet on the linux/windows flamewar forums today :)
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09:25:57 <Speuler> plural of forum = fori ?
09:28:26 <Speuler> scale of attack probably makes a tv news item from it
09:28:48 <Speuler> if they didn't get used to'em yet
09:33:34 <male> Forth -- Security Through Obscurity.
09:33:59 <Speuler> what ?
09:34:07 <Speuler> "main battery too weak"
09:34:21 <Speuler> 40 % left, 6 hours to go ...
09:34:28 <Speuler> lier
09:34:55 <Speuler> call that early warning ??
09:35:12 <Speuler> over 3 hours i'll have forgotten about it :)
09:35:33 <Speuler> 7.8 hours even
09:35:41 <male> Not if you set the alarm on your watch ;-)
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09:36:05 <Speuler> male: there is no sec through obsc
09:36:34 <male> I'm aware of that ;-) 
09:36:36 <arke> Speuler ay!
09:36:38 <arke> ay!
09:36:45 <arke> morning
09:36:47 <Speuler> g'd morning Rk
09:37:18 <Speuler> you were deperate this morning ?
09:37:23 <Speuler> desperate
09:38:38 <Robert> Hah.
09:42:32 <Speuler> arke: if frank zappa sings of "camarillo brillo", does he mean a turbot or bret ?
09:43:35 <Speuler> (this ain't a turing test)
09:48:02 <arke> ay
09:48:06 <arke> i live in camarillo!
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09:59:47 <mur> arke, bad for you
09:59:48 <mur> >:)
10:04:51 <arke> ay
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10:10:14 <Speuler> bacterium found which reduces dioxine 
10:11:14 <mur> hm
10:11:31 <mur> one of chemobacteria?
10:11:57 <Speuler> it splices the chlorine atoms off
10:12:12 <Speuler> no details given about the bacterium
10:12:26 <Speuler> except "found in nature" that is polluted sediments
10:13:10 <mur> there coudl be bacteria that consume radioactivity for energy
10:13:18 <mur> or other lifeforms yet unknown
10:13:27 <mur> radioactivity produces alot energy
10:14:05 <Speuler> bacteria have been found in depth of > 5 km
10:16:13 <Speuler> and it was shown that they are able to survive exosphere conditions
10:17:29 <Speuler> no internet worm item in the news
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11:31:51 <deluxe> howdy
11:33:22 <deluxe> 's irc-client is working back again :-)
11:34:01 <deluxe> i mean almost
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13:30:19 <mur> well hello chuck
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15:17:10 <TheBlueWizard> hiya all
15:17:28 <mur> hello blue wiz
15:17:35 <mur> how are you?
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15:19:42 <TheBlueWizard> busy!  went to a hardware SIG today...saw some interesting oddball toys :)
15:20:10 <Robert> Hey :)
15:21:40 <TheBlueWizard> I'm doing fine, by the way
15:21:43 <TheBlueWizard> hiya Robert
15:23:24 <mur> i'm going to sleep :@
15:23:45 <TheBlueWizard> ok...hyvaa yota :)
15:23:53 <mur> :| :o :O :@ :o :9 :|
15:23:59 <mur> kiitos :)
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15:25:21 <TheBlueWizard> :)
15:43:34 <male> I guess everyone has better things to do tonight.
15:44:05 <TheBlueWizard> maybe...I'm waiting for my online friend to return
15:47:11 <Robert> I have nothing to do, heh.
15:47:24 <Robert> Not even chatting on IRC is any fun.
15:47:59 <TheBlueWizard> heh...if you got a hot topic to discuss, then you get the fun chatting! :)
15:48:04 <male> :-(
15:48:52 <Robert> I don't have any.
15:49:03 <TheBlueWizard> and there are some potential flamebaits, such as postpone (watch I440r go into attack mode :)
15:51:34 <Robert> He's not even here to attack me...
15:52:09 <Robert> He can attack you for just about anything - from saying something about NRA to supporting tail recursion.
15:52:18 <Robert> saying something bad*
15:53:00 <TheBlueWizard> lol...yup...I440r is opinionated and rather colorful...I like him :)
15:53:28 <Robert> :)
15:53:51 <Robert> We all do. But he's not here to be loved at the moment, so I'll have to figure something out
15:54:07 * male keeps his opinion to himself.
15:55:22 <Robert> Afraid of our revenge, eh?
15:56:28 <TheBlueWizard> lol...nah...just that I440r is a starving coder right now
15:56:33 <male> Not exactly. If you ask me opinion has very little value in a forum such as this.
15:57:46 <TheBlueWizard> Robert: oh, you're talking about male? maybe cuz he is inexperienced with Forth, or unskilled in arguing, or whatever...who knows?! :)
15:58:28 <Robert> Maybe he just is childish enough to beleive that we discuss Forth, and nothing but Forth here?
15:59:49 <male> Actually, I've just been around long enough to know which bait is worth biting.
16:01:23 * Robert yawns and thinks about sleeping.
16:01:30 <Robert> The easy way to escape from reality.
16:01:36 <male> Besides, there are much more constructive ways to spend one's passion than in an irc channel.
16:01:47 <Robert> Heh.
16:01:58 * TheBlueWizard puts a tiny bait labelled "ANS Forth" in front of male
16:02:05 <Robert> If I weren't bored to death, I wouldn't be here talking to you.
16:02:14 <Robert> :)
16:02:42 <male> Bah. Well, to the contrary I'm actually getting some work done over here ;-)
16:03:28 <Robert> I don't even HAVE any work.
16:03:34 <Robert> Well..schoolwork. But that does not count.
16:04:02 <TheBlueWizard> lol....if the degree is what you're after, then schoolwork counts...a bit anyway
16:04:02 <male> And I figure any minute now someone could join this channel and proclaim to have written yet ANOTHER forth. At which point I may die content.
16:04:41 <Robert> TheBlueWizard: I won't get any degree.. at least not at this school.
16:05:02 <Robert> TheBlueWizard: Feeling like a retard not getting to do anything fun.
16:05:50 <TheBlueWizard> what kind of school crap are you in?
16:06:30 <Robert> Erm...A "gymnasium".
16:06:47 <Robert> 11th grade, I guess.
16:07:39 <TheBlueWizard> ah...high school...well, you will get a degree, essentially no matter what
16:07:52 <Robert> Yes.
16:08:19 <Robert> That's the good thing. I get the grades without doing anything.
16:08:33 <Robert> So I can (when I feel like) learn on my spare time.
16:08:42 <TheBlueWizard> heh....but wait til you hit the college...things change!
16:09:01 <Robert> Don't talk like that, you're scaring me :)
16:10:20 <TheBlueWizard> actually, it is a good thing....I'm not trying to scare you, just want to prepare you, is all
16:12:11 <Robert> From having done nothing for 10 years, to having to do things...
16:12:22 <Robert> *shrug*
16:13:39 * TheBlueWizard nods
16:14:12 <TheBlueWizard> hey, you're young, you have more time to do things...I don't have much time these days...so, carpe diem :)
16:14:21 <Robert> The funny thing is, things have got easier for each year. But others say it's going to be _harder_ the next year. Bah.
16:15:20 <Robert> :)
16:15:29 <Robert> Well, time for some sleep now. Night!
16:16:37 <TheBlueWizard> bye Robert :)
17:06:16 <TheBlueWizard> gotta go...bye all!
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18:07:56 <arke> Robert ay?
18:08:12 <arke> anybody ay?
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