00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.01.22 00:00:54 Problems, Serg? 00:02:06 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00:02:23 --- join: proteusguy (~username@65.191.88.177) joined #forth 00:05:08 inet almost fell 00:05:41 What kind of service do you have? 00:16:35 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00:17:10 --- join: proteusguy (~username@65.191.88.177) joined #forth 00:35:22 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 00:50:51 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 01:04:31 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:05:02 --- join: proteusguy (~username@65.191.88.177) joined #forth 01:12:32 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:12:59 --- join: proteusguy (~username@65.191.88.177) joined #forth 01:24:01 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:24:35 --- join: proteusguy (~username@65.191.88.177) joined 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quit: Serg_Penguin (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:53:30 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 03:03:00 --- nick: Robert_ -> Robert 03:14:50 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 03:15:27 --- join: proteusguy (~username@65.191.88.177) joined #forth 03:24:18 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 03:25:35 --- join: proteusguy (~username@65.191.88.177) joined #forth 03:25:40 --- quit: male ("User disconnected") 03:28:34 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 03:28:54 --- join: proteusguy (~username@65.191.88.177) joined #forth 03:40:42 z 03:52:32 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 03:53:01 --- join: proteusguy (~username@65.191.88.177) joined #forth 04:05:01 --- quit: Fractal (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 04:05:24 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:06:01 --- join: proteusguy (~username@65.191.88.177) joined #forth 04:10:47 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:11:10 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:11:14 --- join: proteusguy (~username@65.191.88.177) joined #forth 04:21:23 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 04:35:10 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 04:41:28 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:42:38 --- join: proteusguy (~username@65.191.88.177) joined #forth 04:44:34 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 05:06:42 --- join: LuckyPhil (~phowlett@CPE-203-45-165-109.qld.bigpond.net.au) joined #forth 05:07:12 Hello 05:08:23 hi 05:08:37 whadda u work on now ? 05:08:51 i dont code nowdays... 05:09:11 what are you doing instead? 05:09:57 `blowing roof' w/ love :) 05:10:27 I'm playing with minforth atm 05:11:05 so if i happen to crawl to my comp, i can't tie together a few Forth words... 05:11:24 minforth ? sounds interesting... 05:11:43 http://home.t-online.de/home/andreas.kochenburger/ 05:12:31 ENG ? 05:12:55 Genglish 05:16:29 from 1 page, 2 damn overweight 05:16:59 would i write forth, i'll make it capable only of extension 05:17:27 if anything is not necessary 4 compiling - it goes 2 xternal module 05:18:39 also i dont use C forths 05:18:59 if compiler can't compile self - it's trash 05:19:19 its something I'm looking at, to help me learn forth 05:19:43 better look at IsForth 05:20:05 damn buggy, but conceptually best of Linux ones i have seen 05:20:15 in asm 05:20:26 i gotta reboot 05:20:29 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 05:20:49 --- quit: LuckyPhil () 05:25:35 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 05:26:00 re 05:26:38 would i know ASM better, i'll write Forth macro-asm 05:27:14 so one can mix asm and forth in one src to write compilers, OSes etc... 05:28:03 now i got tannenbaum's OS book and wanna find some g00d NASM tutor 05:28:41 i was planning 2 write self-boot hello world at winterval (`HellOS') 05:28:55 but i'm 2 newbie in asm.. 05:32:35 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:33:05 --- join: proteusguy (~username@65.191.88.177) joined #forth 05:38:44 Serg_Penguin: that sounds evil 05:38:46 Hell OS 05:40:51 brb work 05:45:16 re 05:45:56 but hello os w/ dup-o sounds wrong 05:47:56 i planned to add bells'n'whistls 2 it, evolving maybe 2 forth, maybe 2 OS kernel, or both 05:54:34 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:55:02 --- join: proteusguy (~username@65.191.88.177) joined #forth 05:58:37 --- join: Fractal (hwzkzwh@h24-77-171-228.ok.shawcable.net) joined #forth 05:59:19 hi Fractal 06:04:55 z 06:06:31 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:07:16 --- join: proteusguy (~username@65.191.88.177) joined #forth 06:37:54 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 06:58:58 'morning 07:28:37 --- quit: lament (" cocks || gigantic cocks || slapping me in the face") 08:05:55 --- join: Speuler_ 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part: gilbertbsd left #forth 11:46:12 --- join: gilbertbsd (~knoppix@67.97.122.20) joined #forth 11:58:21 --- quit: lament (" cocks || gigantic cocks || slapping me in the face") 12:01:55 --- quit: I440r (Excess Flood) 12:04:25 --- join: I440r (~mark4@sdn-ap-030tnnashP0230.dialsprint.net) joined #forth 12:26:48 --- quit: Kitanin (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:31:48 --- part: gilbertbsd left #forth 12:58:43 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 13:21:06 --- join: Klaw (chuck@ip68-4-155-247.oc.oc.cox.net) joined #forth 13:38:02 --- join: wossname (wossname@HSE-QuebecCity-ppp82086.qc.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 13:45:43 --- join: joonas (jpihlaja@kruuna.Helsinki.FI) joined #forth 13:53:04 --- join: Kitanin (~clark@SCF61185.ab.hsia.telus.net) joined #forth 13:56:11 idlers. were all a bunch of idlers! 13:56:33 ixnorp 13:56:55 Shame on us. 13:59:03 --- quit: rafe ("Client Exiting") 14:21:37 * joonas is ashamed 14:26:35 :) 14:33:32 --- join: gilbertbsd (~knoppix@67.97.122.20) joined #forth 14:55:46 --- part: gilbertbsd left #forth 15:11:21 --- quit: TreyB (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 15:12:01 --- join: male (~male@cpe-024-033-030-124.midsouth.rr.com) joined #forth 15:27:42 --- join: Kiara (~clark@SCF61185.ab.hsia.telus.net) joined #forth 15:27:42 --- quit: Kitanin (Connection reset by peer) 15:28:06 --- nick: Kiara -> Kitanin 16:01:19 --- quit: I440r ("Reality Strikes Again") 16:09:21 --- quit: Kitanin (": war postpone peace ; immediate : freedom postpone slavery ; immediate : ignorance postpone strength ; immediate") 16:39:01 --- quit: wossname ("porblem") 17:01:44 --- join: I440r (~mark4@sdn-ap-030tnnashP0230.dialsprint.net) joined #forth 17:06:25 --- join: MrReach (~mrreach@209.181.43.190) joined #forth 17:06:35 hi 17:06:46 hihi! 17:07:19 :) 17:07:44 i think im going to get back in contact with my old boss :) 17:07:55 he hired me in england (forth related work!!) 17:08:01 cool, i take it you're not working right now, then? 17:08:02 yay 17:08:09 i think he hired me because i understood what a "creating word" was heh 17:08:18 oh, awesome, you are working then ... congrats 17:08:22 no 17:08:26 im not working. :( 17:08:35 but i found a reference to him on the fig uk site 17:09:04 and someone on clf says he will contact him and get him to contact me 17:09:19 so does this mean you will be coding using ANS? 17:09:22 ok, hope it turns out good for you 17:09:26 hell no hhe 17:09:49 he'll probably be using an ANS interpreter, though 17:10:07 probably from Forth, Inc. or MPE 17:10:08 well i dont think he will hire me, i left the company. they hired me temp 6 months and would decide if they wanted to keep me after that - after EIGHT months they offered me 14k 17:10:09 i walked 17:10:30 heh, 14k sucks hard 17:10:37 :( 17:10:41 they said "its the going rate for the north of england" 17:10:50 which might be. but it was an insult heh 17:11:02 "and how many forth coders are there in N. England?" 17:11:12 two? 17:11:30 where's MPE based again? 17:11:44 not sure, lemme check 17:12:41 mpe is english isnt it ? 17:12:55 yes. just not sure where about in the good old eng they are. 17:18:26 133 Hill Lane 17:18:26 Southampton SO15 5AF 17:18:26 England 17:18:37 god, took me long enough to find it 17:19:14 ok, so I take it that you're using a singly linked list of random sized memory chunks? 17:19:39 I've always liked MPE's slogan ... "More Real, Less Time" 17:20:58 * joonas isn't sure what MrReach is talking about re: memory chunks 17:21:32 I440r was ICQing me about a forth-based memory manager ... that's why I came here 17:22:03 --- quit: I440r (Remote closed the connection) 17:22:22 ah 17:22:39 so of course he loses his net connection 17:22:43 :) 17:23:12 I've used the ALLOCATE.F by Mitch Bradley (from taygeta) successfully. 17:23:25 needs some modifications to work with 32 bit cells though. 17:23:32 * MrReach nods. 17:24:36 it's fairly fast too. I ran the tests described by Knuth in TAOCP (vol 1) to measure the average number of nodes traversed with different usage patterns. 17:25:15 wish I could remember the numbers, but it compared favourable with the numbers quoted by Knuth. 17:25:25 yes, it's surprising how fast forth is, considering that it's an interpreted lang 17:26:58 * joonas could argue about "interpreted languaged" but can't be bothered. ;) 17:27:33 ok, byte compiled, then 17:27:47 * joonas won't go there ;) 17:28:31 actually, the widespread usage of Java has probably helped forth more than anything else, at least on sizable machines 17:30:13 possibly.. I certainly had heard of Java before forth. (Only used forth for a few years now.) 17:30:46 well, java has a similar working model to forth 17:31:09 hm.. only at the JavaVM level. as a language it's completely different; but you knew that. 17:31:16 and chip manufacturers are optimising mpus to run java efficiently 17:31:28 and even at the VM level it's not all *that* similar. 17:31:42 Most compiled java uses locals extensively. 17:31:58 yes, java still uses a single stack model 17:32:04 (that's compiled to the VM, not to native code.) 17:32:23 yes, that's also a very big difference. 17:33:44 however, java follows chains of tokens, very much like forth 17:34:10 damnit, where's I440r 17:34:59 Mr Murphy's law kicking in again. :-/ 17:38:25 have you read through this? .... ftp://ftp.taygeta.com/pub/Forth/Applications/ANS/memory.fth 17:39:43 looking at it now 17:41:29 from the comments at the beginning, it seems like it's using a very similar algorithm to allocate.f 17:41:54 even down to the usage of the sign-bit as a "in-use" marker 17:42:17 this might be an ANSified version 17:47:03 --- join: gilbertbsd (~gilbertbs@67.97.122.30) joined #forth 17:47:22 I like memory.fth. Clearly commented (maybe a bit verbose), and probably easy to incorporate into your own project. 17:47:34 * MrReach nods. 17:49:08 hm.. the, uh, license is a vague tho: "Copy and distribute it. Use it. *Don't mess with this file*." (emphasis added) 17:49:39 the phrase "hysteresis OR 1+" is particularly elegant, I'd have been /MODing 17:50:50 cool... I'd have been hysteresis + hysteresis INVERT AND ing 17:51:52 yes, well, he introduced a limitation in doing it that way, but no biggie 17:52:10 surely not. 17:52:11 in that hysteresis must have n of the lower bits set 17:52:50 so that the hystersis must be 2^n in size 17:52:50 that reminds me about something I've been meaning to ask people: have you ever worked on a non-two's complement machine? 17:53:04 nope, anly read about them 17:53:23 same for me. 17:54:08 * joonas goes to brew more coffee 17:58:17 --- quit: gilbertbsd (Remote closed the connection) 18:01:17 --- join: I440r (~mark4@sdn-ap-030tnnashP0230.dialsprint.net) joined #forth 18:01:50 hiya, I440r, welcome back 18:01:51 grr 18:01:53 oopts 18:02:11 133 Hill Lane 18:02:13 --- join: Rk (~chris@gen3-camarillo8-206.vnnyca.adelphia.net) joined #forth 18:02:18 Southampton SO15 5AF 18:02:28 England 18:02:46 --- quit: ianni (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:02:46 --- quit: male (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:02:46 --- quit: Klaw (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:02:47 --- quit: skylan (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:02:47 --- quit: sma (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:02:47 hi rk - do you code forth ??? :) 18:02:53 yes 18:02:55 :) 18:02:55 I've always liked MPE's slogan ... "More Real, Less Time" 18:03:02 --- join: male (~male@cpe-024-033-030-124.midsouth.rr.com) joined #forth 18:03:02 --- join: Klaw (chuck@ip68-4-155-247.oc.oc.cox.net) joined #forth 18:03:02 --- join: ianni (~ian@inpuj.net) joined #forth 18:03:02 --- join: skylan (sjh@Riverview16.tbaytel.net) joined #forth 18:03:02 --- join: sma (stephenma@ashd174qy22og.bc.hsia.telus.net) joined #forth 18:03:06 yea - southampton - i would have guessed it eventually :) 18:03:11 ok, I440r, so I take it that you're using a singly linked list of random sized memory chunks? 18:03:26 I440r: im not that good with it though 18:03:28 yes 18:03:33 rk neither am i hehe 18:03:38 ... 18:03:39 ;) 18:03:43 hang on mrreach 18:03:44 did you look at some of the stuff already available? 18:03:52 ...you wrote isforth... 18:03:52 lol 18:04:16 yes and didnt like the way they worked much 18:04:27 ill have to go afk in a second or 2 18:04:31 ok 18:04:55 i sent you the sources btw 18:04:59 did you notice that? heh 18:05:06 its not 100% finished yet 18:05:10 yep 18:05:13 reading them now 18:05:17 k 18:05:24 HEY! I recognise that field stuff! 18:05:59 yea - my structures source file credits you 18:06:04 ive been using them for ages lol 18:07:09 since i cant get linux to work, i ave to work on winblows. anybody know a good winblows forth? 18:07:29 ummm ... 18:07:38 tom zimmers win324th ? 18:07:54 rk: both gforth and pfe work well on windows. 18:07:59 it depends on the kernel ... some are excellent, some are so-so, and the experimental ones can be downright creepy 18:08:07 ay 18:08:15 rk: also win324th, but I've always found it to be slightly unstable. 18:08:15 joonas: have you played with swiftforth at all? 18:08:23 rk keep trying with linux - try debian!! 18:08:27 where to find? 18:08:44 http://www.taygeta.com/forth.html 18:08:54 ty 18:09:06 howcome you can't get linux working??? 18:09:07 rk: I tried the evaluation version. unfortunately I didn't have a lot of experience with forth then, but looking back, it 18:09:14 rk: ... seemed really nice. 18:09:32 I440r: ay its my new computer, whenever i try booting anything (CDs and floppies alike) it either gives me a bunch of crap and hangs or nothing and hangs 18:09:46 oh, ok 18:09:48 :D 18:09:51 :-( 18:10:16 rk: complain to wherever you bought it from! 18:10:40 I use win32forth or gforth on windows, both are pretty good 18:10:51 doh! 18:11:04 redhat: crap 18:11:07 suse: crap 18:11:09 be sure you download the windows platform SDK before you start, or you'll be totally lost 18:11:24 winblows: nothing 18:11:57 * joonas seconds the recommendation for debian. 18:12:07 well, thanks for that ... 18:12:33 I'm about to reinstall linux on my server, and was wondering if I could find something a bit cleaner than Mandrake 18:12:46 ay 18:12:48 pfe being weird 18:12:48 I'll give Debian a shakedown 18:13:16 mrreach: sorry, didn't mean to sound like a know-it-all or anything when "seconding". 18:13:37 I didn't think that at all 18:13:44 just had good experiences with debian, is all. 18:14:06 there's so many good distros out that that it would take years for a single person to eval them all 18:14:26 brb 18:14:35 ay 18:14:47 dont you use ." for a string..? 18:14:53 ." Hello, World!" 18:15:11 yes. ." displays a string. why? 18:15:56 PFE isn't doing it ;) 18:16:17 Aargh... what version are you using? 18:16:21 Error: interpreting a compile-only word 18:17:02 .9.22 18:17:07 ah... the joys of ANS: it probably says that ." doesn't have interpretation semantics. 18:17:30 anyway, I've got 0.32.82 here and ." works fine. 18:18:29 hehe 18:18:31 For windows I recommend getting the 0.32.55 binary. Or even better: compile pfe yourself (but that's a pain.) 18:19:09 been meaning to send a 0.32.87 binary to Guido for some time now, but haven't gotten around to that yet. 18:19:42 gforth works :) 18:19:46 ay 18:19:49 yay! 18:22:45 back 18:23:02 i have a question 18:23:08 what would be faster 18:23:12 13 emit 13 emit 18:23:13 or 18:23:15 13 dup emit emit 18:23:20 try this ... : test ." Hello, world!" ; test 18:23:44 rk those would be so close as to be nearly identicle 18:24:07 most of the time would be in the emits 18:24:10 your question reduces to "which is faster, a constant or the word DUP ??" 18:24:51 joonas: you're writing for PFE??? 18:25:02 dup is just a push ebx in isforth 18:25:08 thats faster than a constant 18:25:22 * Rk uses dup 18:25:24 lets see 18:25:26 mrreach: no, ANS forth. on windows I use PFE 18:25:27 what to do now? 18:25:28 thats faster than a literal and literals are about 10 times faster than a constant 18:25:57 I440r: 10x ??? why are constants so much slower? 18:26:30 I440r: why aren't constants implemented as literals then? 18:30:36 ay 18:30:44 how do you do unbuffered single char input again? 18:31:08 KEY 18:31:08 --- quit: male ("User disconnected") 18:31:21 except that's usually buffered 18:31:24 by the OS 18:31:33 and use KEY? to test if there's one available. 18:32:31 KEY shouldn't be buffered, I think. just blocking. 18:35:34 not buffered on gforth 18:35:37 ay 18:35:49 i wanna write a game in forth, because ive never done that 18:36:00 whats the forst command for locating the cursor? (if theres a standard one) 18:36:22 so if in the interpreter you say: KEY it won't return immediately? 18:36:45 AT-XY ( n1 n2 -- ) 18:36:52 rk: there's no standard way, IIRC. only moving the cursor by AT-XY 18:37:02 if you do KEY then it waits until you press a key. you dont have to press enter 18:37:20 rk: so it's not buffered, just blocking. 18:37:30 guess so 18:37:30 ay 18:37:33 clear screen>? 18:37:35 rk: before calling KEY, you should call KEY? to see if it will block or not. 18:38:00 DARK on old systems, if I recall 18:38:10 PAGE on new ones 18:38:59 page workws 18:39:28 rk: KEY? ( -- flag) returns true if there's a key available and KEY won't block. 18:40:10 i dont like at-xy, i just call it 'at' :) 18:40:17 10 10 at ." blah" 18:40:30 everyone else calls it at so ans calls it at-xy duh :P 18:40:41 :) 18:40:47 lol 18:42:41 ay 18:42:42 brb dinner 18:43:32 AT probably had conflicting usage ... ( x y -- ) and ( y x -- ) 18:44:54 btw, I440r, I think YahooChat rather superior to IRC, although a bit primitive still ... it allows voice chat and web cams 18:48:16 i still prefer irc :) 18:49:20 i keep forgetting to launch yahoo :) 18:55:08 i like irc 18:55:32 irc is an evil time waster!!! :) 18:55:41 I have an uncontrollable addiction to it 18:56:58 i was deprived of it for *gasp* 5 montha 18:57:23 im usually on 4 different irc networks at the same time in multiple channels on each. i have yahoo aim and icq. but im NOT an adict :P 18:57:38 my kid sis wants to have the internet 18:57:43 im outa here 18:57:49 ill bbl tho 18:58:58 ok 18:59:02 ay 18:59:08 --- quit: I440r ("brb") 18:59:09 how do you define constants in gforth? 18:59:20 3 constant three 19:00:00 and variable 19:00:21 there are two kinds: 3 value x 19:00:29 and: variable y 19:00:46 good bye, folks! 19:00:51 --- part: MrReach left #forth 19:00:52 bye 19:00:57 bye 19:01:01 ay 19:01:03 gone alreasy 19:01:24 when you want to change x, you say: 4 to x 19:01:48 when you want to change y, you say: 4 y ! 19:02:06 fetch and store ;) 19:02:11 right. 19:02:12 @ and ! 19:02:21 you use those for VARIABLEs like y. 19:03:11 for VALUEs like x you fetch the value of the x by saying "x" and store to it with "TO x". 19:03:35 ay 19:03:39 what does !> do 19:03:53 nothing? 19:03:58 same as ! > ? 19:04:15 yes 19:04:19 its together not separated lol 19:05:01 I've never used !> but it could be read as store-to, and then it might be the same as TO. 19:05:21 its just a ! then a > 19:05:22 lol 19:05:29 so they're separate? 19:05:35 yeah 19:05:43 ok 19:05:44 isforth seems to allow them together lol 19:06:11 ah.. too bad I440r left, he'd know about !> . 19:06:42 lol 19:06:47 i hope they're separate 19:06:49 lol 19:09:19 --- quit: sma (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 19:09:19 --- quit: Klaw (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 19:09:19 --- quit: skylan (leguin.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 19:11:36 --- join: Klaw (chuck@ip68-4-155-247.oc.oc.cox.net) joined #forth 19:11:36 --- join: skylan (sjh@Riverview16.tbaytel.net) joined #forth 19:11:36 --- join: sma (stephenma@ashd174qy22og.bc.hsia.telus.net) joined #forth 19:23:02 --- join: Speuler (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba468d.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth 19:23:11 'morning 19:23:23 Speuler good morning 19:24:50 --- part: joonas left #forth 19:40:56 --- quit: Speuler ("Lost terminal") 19:41:12 --- join: Speuler (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba468d.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth 19:49:02 --- join: TreyB (~trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth 20:31:33 --- quit: Speuler (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 20:50:55 --- join: Sonarman (~root@adsl-64-169-93-170.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 21:10:18 --- join: lament (~lament@h24-78-145-92.vc.shawcable.net) joined #forth 21:12:28 --- join: Herkamire (~Herkamire@AC876D1F.ipt.aol.com) joined #forth 21:13:10 hey guys 21:20:53 hi 21:20:58 hello 21:23:18 sonarman & rk: hi :) I don't recognise you guys? are you new to the channel? are you new to the language? any cool forth projects? 21:23:49 Herkamire: sorta new to forth, like it. nothing going on, looking for something to do. im always bored. 21:24:53 heh :) cool 21:25:06 same as Rk here :) 21:25:14 cool 21:25:32 for a long time forth was just something I thought was really cool, and played with occationally 21:26:08 I really want to start doing some cool (bigger) projects with it. 21:26:20 same here 21:26:30 Robert wants to do a Forth OS 21:26:38 me too 21:26:53 I'm still refining what sort of forth I want though 21:27:01 (how exactly I want it to work) 21:27:17 there are too many different forths out there 21:27:37 oh that's fine :) 21:27:41 I just try some for ideas 21:27:53 i sorta have an idea 21:28:10 Rk: what? 21:28:26 I'm still in the idea phase :) 21:29:02 create a compiler, with C or something, that when you compile forth sources with it, certain functions would refer to things already set up by the kernel 21:29:18 I've been using a forth my friend tathi is making, and helping a little bit. but I'm starting to convince myself that I should make my own. (even if I end up using his.) 21:29:51 Rk: "refer"? you mean call? 21:30:03 like system calls? 21:30:14 yeah 21:30:21 syscalls? 21:30:53 stdout .s" Hello world!\n" 13 write 21:30:56 simple x86 asm routine sets syscalls up, then the kernel forth sources are compiled using the syscalls provided by the initial asm source 21:31:18 sounds good. 21:31:58 the forth I've been using compiles to native (PPC) code, and bootstraps it's self completely. 21:31:58 yeah 21:32:06 Herkamire: PPC??? 21:32:16 Herkamire: thats pretty sweet 21:32:22 it doesn't link to anything, so syscalls are the only way to have IO, or do anything noticable 21:32:27 maybe the compiler should have options for doing such things 21:32:31 dude, what compiler are you using? i'm on ppc, and i've been searching for a compiler :) 21:33:01 Sonarman: yes :) we have mac hardware. Awesame hardware :) .... just not standard 21:33:12 Herkamire: are you using MacOS or Linux? 21:33:27 Sonarman: linux (gentoo) 21:33:32 (or OpenBSD or NetBSD?)_:) 21:33:37 Herkamire: me too 21:33:48 is the forth you're using Free? 21:34:00 * Rk is on x86 *sniff* 21:34:01 in fact, im installing gentoo at this very instant :) 21:34:09 * fridge using debian ppc 21:34:24 * Sonarman is so happy that there are other ppc users here 21:34:57 ay 21:34:59 dual booting with OSX at the moment though, a few things I can't get playing nicely yet 21:35:00 Sonarman: it's GPL but it's only half baked. (1/3 documented, and liable to be rewritten (not because it's bad or big, but knowing tathi...)) 21:35:08 does ppc also have something like the int instruction? 21:35:14 Rk: sc 21:35:20 (syscall) 21:35:32 Sonarman: there are quita a few PPC people in this channel regularly 21:35:40 Rk: i don't think it has interrupts like x86 interrupts though 21:35:52 Herkamire: where can i get a tarball? 21:36:17 if one is availabl 21:36:19 e 21:36:33 nope :) 21:36:44 ok 21:36:52 there's just an svn repository 21:37:02 oh, great! 21:37:22 as long as the source is available somehow, i'm very happy :D 21:37:46 Sonarman: it's written in asm (for gcc) and it's a colorforth 21:38:15 not a standard forth at all 21:39:28 but tathi figured out some crucial stuff, like flushing the instruction caches, so you may like to look at the sources. 21:39:33 it sounds cool! now i have a good motivation to learn more powerpc asm :) 21:41:13 --- quit: lament (" cocks || gigantic cocks || slapping me in the face") 21:41:17 Sonarman: cool. Ask me about it next week and I should be able to get you the files 21:41:28 that would be good 21:41:32 great! thanks, Herkamire! 21:41:40 I'd like a colourforth I could boot into from openfirmware somehow 21:41:58 fridge: eventually we will do that 21:42:01 kindof like chucks colourforth, but one that actually works 21:42:11 fridge heh :) exactly 21:42:19 I have'nt been able to try chuck's 21:42:28 (due possibly to it not working) :) 21:42:29 I've tried it on about 5 different machines 21:42:33 it wouldn't boot off any 21:42:41 me too :) 21:42:50 PII/PIII/K6/K7 21:43:21 must need a pentium 133 with the exact same amount of ram as his setup or something 21:43:25 I hope that our forth will be better. 21:43:26 --- quit: Herkamire (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 21:46:09 tathi must be a very cool dude 21:47:02 :D 21:47:04 gotta go 21:47:06 see you tomorrow 21:47:17 * Rk is away: gotta go now, ill be on tomorrow 21:48:03 --- quit: Rk ("Client Exiting") 21:51:56 --- join: Herkamire (~Herkamire@AC87CA93.ipt.aol.com) joined #forth 21:52:14 We should be able to make a version that uses the OF drivers for screen + keyboard. That would help people with different hardware be able to run it anyway (so they could write drivers of course ;)) 21:52:54 Sonarman: what model computer and graphics card do you have? 21:53:12 yes, tathi is very cool :) 21:54:34 Herkamire: i have an iMac DV (CRT Monitor) with a Rage 128, using aty128fb for console graphics, but OF gfx works too 21:54:50 using the OF drivers is a very good idea 21:56:37 as on option :) 21:56:49 I want fast scrolling 21:57:21 I want a terminal emulator that uses the graphics card 21:58:38 i think OF drivers differ greatly in speed, depending on the model. on my computer, it's very fast (faster than the framebuffer), and Tux still shows at bootup, but I think that on other models OF mode is slower. if i am actually in OF though, it has slow scrolling :) 21:59:50 * Sonarman really likes seeing Tux the penguin when he starts the computer =) 22:00:38 --- join: lament (~lament@h24-78-145-92.vc.shawcable.net) joined #forth 22:10:16 --- quit: TreyB (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 22:11:29 --- quit: Sonarman ("leaving") 22:12:06 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 22:16:46 goodnight 22:16:48 --- part: Herkamire left #forth 22:17:46 I had used OF on my ibook 22:18:00 X wouldn't work properly with it, but the framebuffer itself was very fast 22:54:46 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 23:00:41 Argh. 23:00:45 rk found his way here. 23:01:11 Oh, I missed MrReach :-/ 23:16:22 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 23:32:56 --- quit: onetom (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:37:32 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 23:39:21 --- join: onetom (~tom@novtan.bio.u-szeged.hu) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/03.01.22