00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.01.21 00:05:24 Does anybody use colorForth? 00:06:04 I know I can't be the only person at the keyboard tonight. 00:48:32 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 01:16:34 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 01:17:58 i failed to 01:18:00 if that counts 01:54:35 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 02:05:03 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 02:30:08 Sorry, failed to use colorForth? 02:30:21 As in you didn't enjoy it? 02:31:36 The reason I ask is because I was wondering just how insane it would be to require the user to prefix all numeric literals with a sign character. 02:32:05 colorForth does something similar and seems to get away with it. 02:32:46 That is, requiring the user to indictate the color of input. 02:34:08 What I'm proposing would change 1 -2 + . into +1 -2 + . 02:34:46 And thereby avoid having to look numbers up in the dictionary. 02:38:58 As an aside, I find colorForth amusing because I had a very similar idea many many years ago but thought that no one in their right minds would be willing to enter color codes all day. Although, my scheme changed the color of the word itself and not simply the white space. Now that I think about it, that idea would allow you to eliminate white space all together.. That defintely sounds like something Chuck would enjoy. 02:42:13 madness. 02:42:56 --- join: njd (melons@njd.paradise.net.nz) joined #forth 02:44:24 hah 02:44:54 that was one of the more unique responses i've had on irc 02:52:08 male : What about the word "1+"? 02:52:42 Do you mean it would only check the first character? 02:53:28 Well, it would check the first character and the length. That way + will still work for addition. 02:54:10 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 02:54:13 Also, getting rid of numeric literal lookups in the dictionary is a bad idea. Generally the words "0" and "1" are defined as 0 constant 0, and 1 constant 1 in order to save memory. 02:54:37 Memory or speed? 02:54:45 Memory. 02:55:07 A literal generally takes twice as much space once compiled as a thread. 02:55:15 Er, 02:55:21 A literal generally takes twice as much space once compiled than a thread. 02:55:45 but thread takes longer 02:55:52 at runtime 02:56:21 Serg_Penguin : Not necessarily. The code for constant is usually just as fast as the parser's code. 02:56:32 I'm pretty sure that in my system literals consume only one 'instruction'. But it has been a while since I worked on that part of the code ;-) 02:57:10 male : Various subroutine threaded forths might be able to get away with that, but it definitley isn't the norm. 02:57:34 Usually literals are compiled as a thread to the word LITERAL, followed by the literal itself. 02:57:35 My system is only loosely related to forth. 02:58:04 What's your system? 02:59:31 Well, I just began working on it again after a LONG vacation and I'm not very satisfied with it accordingly. I'm in the midst of a large redesign. 02:59:36 Serg_Penguin : Sorry, the code for constant is usually just as fast as LITERAL's code, not the parsers... 03:00:11 male : Well... what is it? 03:00:23 Do you have a URL I can download it from? 03:00:33 STOICAL, but wait until I finish working on it before you get interested ;-) 03:00:52 Ok. How does it differ from forth? 03:01:17 Well, the question would really be how does it differ from STOIC. 03:01:54 Er, ok. I'm don't know what that is either. What is STOIC? 03:02:08 And I really don't have a nice clean answer for that ;-) 03:02:15 What is STOIC? 03:02:53 http://stoical.sourceforge.net/summary.php#history 03:04:38 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 03:06:11 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 03:06:18 Anyhow, the language will be much improved once I get some of these changes made. 03:06:47 At the moment I'm converting the dictionary format from a doubly-linked list to a hash table. 03:07:10 As well as writing a new garbage collector. 03:08:23 male : I don't know how STOICAL handles dictionary operations, but many forths keep both the linked list and the hash table. 03:08:49 What would be the purpose of that? 03:09:37 Well, easy traversal of the dictionary mostly. Also, for words like "forget" and things. 03:11:01 sorry, power fell 03:11:07 Well, my system doesn't really need FORGET. And the problem with the traditional dictionary has been dealing with it in C.. A hash table should simplify my build process quite a bit. 03:11:42 Actually, I don't really consider the dictionary something that needs to be optimized. In the unlikely event that compilation is unacceptably slow, you can always use separate vocabularies. 03:12:06 would i write forth, i'll use tree, no hash or linklist 03:12:37 Umm... 03:12:54 I feel the same way.. That's why I used the linked list to begin with, but it has been a real thorn in my side as far as the implementation goes. 03:14:21 male : Well, you're most likely going to have to use linked lists in your hash table design anyways. 03:14:35 Plus, since hash tables are already part of the language it will make the dictionary manipulation much more uniform. 03:15:01 It isn't linked lists per se.. Its using them to form the initial dictionary in C. 03:15:25 I'm currently having to preprocess the sources with a perl script of all things. 03:17:00 One advantage of the hash table is that it doesn't require double links in order to allow easy deletion. 03:18:25 Well, you don't really need doubly linked lists for easy deletion. Deletion is still rather trivial with a singly linked list. 03:18:57 Only if the list is contigous in memory. 03:19:22 Or if you don't mind traversing from the tail. 03:19:49 Well in forth you always traverse from one end. 03:20:18 This allows you to, say, redefine + if you wanted too. 03:20:35 Since the most recent version of + is always the first one found in a dictionary search. 03:20:50 I realize this ;-) 03:21:26 I don't really recall what the constraint was that required my use of a doubly linked list, but suffice to say I did have a reason.. 03:21:49 OK... 03:22:18 You see, when I rewrite things I prefer to do it without rereading the documentation first. 03:23:45 Well, good luck with that. I'm off. 03:23:59 * Serg_Penguin wonders why redefine + 03:24:24 : + f+ ; 03:24:28 Serg_Penguin : Well, it's a classic case of "operator overloading". 03:25:12 If you had, say, a matrix vocabulary, you might want to create a word "+" for adding matrices together, but maintain +'s functionality in other instances. 03:25:35 OK, I'm really off. :) 03:25:38 so M+ , MV* etc...\ 03:26:06 A better reason is to confuse the hell out of some poor fool. 03:26:38 : + - ; 03:28:30 I guess I can just make the sign prefix optional. I've always hated the idea of looking numbers up in the dictionary. I mean, we don't look strings up in the dictionary. 03:29:17 And there's always confusion when you have hex literals. 03:29:28 --- quit: njd () 03:29:38 ie. is "beef" a word or a number? 03:29:52 DEADBEEF :))) 03:30:00 +beef is unambiguous. 03:30:42 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 03:38:09 i'd rather shoot myself than prefix every number with a +, though. 03:41:01 You prefix every string. 03:41:09 And sometimes postfix! 03:41:21 Strings are blissfully rare. 03:41:53 Remember.. colorForth requires you to 'color' every number.. 03:43:03 (not to mention change the color back when you're done) 03:43:09 And it seems to be a success. 03:43:41 a success???? 03:43:44 colorforth? 03:44:02 Besides, I've already decided that I'm not going to require the prefix.. It will just offer an optional benefit. 03:44:05 Yes, it's a success, meaning a few people still remember what it is. 03:44:15 Ha. A success in forth terms ;-) 04:43:48 --- quit: male ("[BX] Tiger Woods uses BitchX. FORE!") 05:34:23 --- join: skylan_ (sjh@Riverview1.tbaytel.net) joined #forth 05:50:05 --- quit: skylan (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:58:07 --- nick: skylan_ -> skylan 06:03:17 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 07:04:30 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (Killed (NickServ (Nickname Enforcement))) 07:04:31 --- join: fgsggfhag (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 07:04:56 --- quit: fgsggfhag (Client Quit) 07:34:10 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 07:42:24 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 07:53:12 --- quit: clog (^C) 07:53:12 --- log: stopped forth/03.01.21 07:53:42 --- log: started forth/03.01.21 07:53:42 --- join: clog (nef@bespin.org) joined #forth 07:53:42 --- topic: 'Welcome to the Forth Cooking Channel. Ask for our minimal forth recipes! | IsForth: runs on linux, coded in x86 asm - http://isforth.clss.net | official forth sites: http://www.ultratechnology.com/forth.htm & http://www.colorforth.com' 07:53:42 --- topic: set by thin on [Thu Jan 02 15:55:11 2003] 07:53:42 --- names: list (clog skylan onetom_ lament proteusguy fridge OrngeTide sma TreyB Robert Klaw Fractal) 08:12:39 --- join: I440r (~mark4@sdn-ap-031tnnashP0143.dialsprint.net) joined #forth 08:16:21 Hey 08:19:06 --- quit: lament (" cocks || gigantic cocks || slapping me in the face") 09:06:30 --- join: rafe (~rafe@www.scinq.org) joined #forth 09:13:31 --- join: Speuler (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba46e4.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth 09:36:07 --- join: gilbertbsd (~gilbertbs@67.97.122.122) joined #forth 09:58:14 --- join: confuciussayMU (~confucius@67.97.122.122) joined #forth 10:01:38 --- join: Kitanin (~clark@SCF61185.ab.hsia.telus.net) joined #forth 10:16:54 --- quit: gilbertbsd (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:17:40 --- quit: Speuler (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:18:09 --- join: Speuler (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba46e4.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth 10:32:06 --- quit: confuciussayMU (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:03:50 --- join: gilbertbsd (~gilbertbs@67.97.122.122) joined #forth 11:26:39 --- quit: Kitanin (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 13:01:19 --- join: Kitanin (~clark@SCF61185.ab.hsia.telus.net) joined #forth 13:29:03 --- quit: I440r ("Reality Strikes Again") 13:47:20 --- join: wossname (wossname@HSE-QuebecCity-ppp81157.qc.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 14:07:47 --- quit: Speuler (Remote closed the connection) 14:08:16 --- join: Speuler (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba46e4.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth 14:08:41 nobody say a word!~ 14:10:21 . 14:11:33 hmmm thats a word. 14:11:35 see . 14:11:47 pop 14:12:01 I got that right :D 14:25:34 --- quit: wossname ("Hi, I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over IRC.") 14:26:25 --- join: wossname (wossname@HSE-QuebecCity-ppp81157.qc.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 14:35:08 hi all 14:36:26 Hi there. 14:37:10 i was taking "Speuler's " 5-word tute to heart this weekend 14:37:41 "write your own forth kernel" 14:38:14 man fighting with the window$$ api is a bear 14:38:31 no way does it fit into the 4th model 14:39:37 NOW I know why fortharians forthiens forthenese... 14:39:44 Hm? 14:39:48 The 4thaken. 14:39:54 like to take over the os 14:40:04 hehe 14:41:10 rafe: In the case of Windows, I think the appropriate phrase is "Take out the os", in the gangster sense. 14:41:35 can see why! 14:42:07 the outer interpreter is currently burried in a subclassed callback 14:42:15 eeeeewwww! 14:43:34 Indeed. Ew. 14:44:36 &&& the damned edit boxes do nothing! 14:44:42 True dat. 14:45:16 anyway.. I "Endevour to perservere." 14:45:25 mangled sp 14:46:31 ITYM "Hungarian Notation". :-) 14:48:20 heh 14:51:37 --- join: I440r (~nospam@sdn-ap-031tnnashP0143.dialsprint.net) joined #forth 14:51:58 --- mode: ChanServ set +o I440r 14:52:50 Hey hey. 14:53:49 hi 14:59:17 let me ask this again: does anyone here do mysql with 4th? 15:01:24 * Robert blinks. 15:01:30 SQL is evil. 15:01:33 Don't ask why. 15:01:35 It' 15:01:39 It's just pure evil. 15:02:14 Not a big fan of the SQL, I take it? :-) 15:02:22 true but... i can REALLY make my co-workers miserable if i can use it :) 15:03:45 Kitanin: If anyone says "Database" or "web", I'm hiding under my bed. 15:04:31 Robert: sql is a mathematical tool 15:04:50 in theory. 15:04:59 well for sets 15:05:15 --- nick: onetom_ -> onetom 15:10:02 still a crappy language for most things 15:10:09 sql that is :) 15:10:31 It's great for overloading database servers. :-) 15:10:39 done that 15:10:55 It's funny... 15:11:08 I just watched the video to "Lucy in the sky with diamonds". 15:11:32 And it reminds me - in a way - of some "kid's encylopedia" I've had. 15:11:35 only 40 years later, too~ 15:11:51 Well... not quite. 15:12:04 That book isn't exactly new. 15:12:12 1987 - 1967... more like 20 years. 15:12:20 (Or something in that direction) 15:12:27 :l 15:12:50 That book must be one of the ones I learned to read with :) 15:13:03 Somewhere around 1990... in the old house. 15:13:08 Mmm... "old" memories. 15:13:30 * Robert maybe shouldn't be talking like this in a channel with a median age of 40 :P 15:14:22 * rafe is a appauled at all the geezers in one chat room 15:14:48 must be trying to pick up hot chix 15:14:54 silly dinosaurs, technology is for kids 15:15:14 Exactly - that's why they still use Forth. 15:15:17 * Robert hides. 15:15:48 heh 15:15:57 they're not typing! because they have reaction times measured in centuries! 15:16:09 must be hard having such a broken down, old nervous system~~ 15:16:38 Well, I'm in #trivia as well. Oh, and I'm only 28, so you weren't talking to me. :-) 15:17:04 ah, you're below 309 ;D 15:17:09 er, 30. :ninja: 15:17:35 Yeah, he's one of the young people here... 15:17:40 * Kitanin applauds wossname's mastery of numbers under 32. 15:17:53 We're below 18, wossname, so I guess we're not allowed to use Forth. 15:18:08 can't drink can't 4th 15:18:14 that the law 15:18:23 :( 15:18:48 sorry son now hand over that puter & go home 15:18:54 or i'll call you parents 15:19:09 fspam 15:19:58 d0h ... don't use words i can't look up :) 15:20:20 you make me feel soo sooo oooooold :( 15:20:27 so, what is new in the world of computing and forth computing? 15:20:28 Fractal: How old are you, 19? 15:20:31 errr... 15:20:33 Sorry. 15:20:35 rafe: How old are you, 19? 15:20:47 going on 40ish 15:21:05 still very immature tho :) 15:21:17 or so Dr. Wifiepoo says 15:21:32 o_O 15:21:40 unpossible 15:22:35 * rafe remembers core memories... that's how old 15:23:17 I've seen a core memory. It wasn't in use, though. :-) 15:23:41 4thaken 15:23:58 * gilbertbsd thinks forth needs a thinkgeek.com prescence. 15:24:08 4thaken, 4thsmith, 4thright. something. 15:24:34 I liked 4thaken best 15:24:38 or a slogan "you, 4th, the machine: simplicity". 15:24:59 or "me, 4th, the machine: simplicity". 15:25:04 I like 4thaken too. 15:25:07 forth is second to none 15:25:22 but after 3rd?! 15:25:35 4th is prolly second to color4th 15:25:54 no no won't do at all 15:26:10 4th is 1st maybe 15:26:23 :( 15:26:23 --- quit: Kitanin (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 15:26:46 --- join: Kitanin (~clark@SCF61185.ab.hsia.telus.net) joined #forth 15:27:09 in the beginning, there were 10: 4th and the machine. 15:27:28 bah 15:27:54 and the source was void & w/o form 15:27:54 bah? come up with a better thinkgeek.com shirt slogan for forth then. 15:27:55 :D 15:28:05 hahaha. the source WAS void and w/o form. 15:28:21 4. 15:28:55 and CM punched forth and forged 4th 15:29:04 no, thats not right. 15:29:27 I still think just a black shirt with "4thaken" on it would work. At least, I'd buy one. 15:29:54 '- . 15:29:58 4thaken is quite nice :l 15:29:58 what about one with the slogan "you, forth, the machine: simplicity"? 15:30:05 also a good license plate 15:30:23 * gilbertbsd hears the rush to DMV :D 15:30:36 hehe 15:31:46 * rafe ponders how we could make it into a western movie.... The 4thaken 15:32:49 good night fellow dudes 15:32:55 ciao 15:32:58 think 4th wossname 15:33:01 ABI? ABI? We don't _need_ no _steenking_ ABI! 15:33:04 --- quit: wossname ("wut~") 15:35:50 mmm... i like that... Treasure of the Sierra Madre... reference 15:36:02 or were you doing ren & stimpy 15:36:04 :) 15:37:46 That would be TotSM. I have no recollection of Ren & Stimpy doing that. 15:38:09 mabe not... the old synapes you know 15:38:18 sometimes misfire 15:39:01 Well, it could be second or later season of R&S. I've really only seen the first. 15:39:55 well it COULD be a recovered memory... after long years of therapy :D 15:40:20 "My parents used to beat me with Ren & Stimpy transcripts! It's not my fault!" 15:40:41 how could they the nerve 15:40:58 should we call CPS... just not here in Florida 15:41:13 Or up here in Manitoba. :-) 15:41:28 you'll get lost in the system & kidnapped & no one will know for 2 years 15:41:53 brrrr! Manitoba 15:42:02 no that only happens when you say /server irc.blah.com and join any channel. it sucks you in and you cant escape 15:42:24 :D 15:42:55 I couldn't handle Pennsytucky winters I'd die up there 15:43:25 my father calls it pensyltucky :) 15:43:41 Heh. I'm not THAT IRC addicted right now. 15:43:41 now your from Michianna 15:43:49 I mean... I still need it 24/7. 15:43:55 But I'm not active more than a few hours., 15:44:48 Hmm... So wearing shorts when it's 20 below is unlikely as well, I take it (-20 c>f . says -4 your temperature)? :-) 15:44:50 just like my Dr. wifiepoo 15:45:23 it was cold here today it didn't even get up to 70F! :) 15:46:04 indiana is cool, they let me have a GUN!!! :) 15:46:21 lol... good thing i'm a few states over :) 15:46:24 * Kitanin backs away from I440r slowly. 15:46:24 and my permit is valid in michigan :) 15:47:35 well i got a rifle or 2 aswell - tho im not as good with those heh 15:47:48 i can sometimes hit a 8 inch target with my 45 from 100 yards 15:47:52 even when i miss im close 15:48:22 * rafe is releived to be farther than 100yds 15:48:39 :) 15:49:08 well even if you were within 100 yards you would have no fear unless you were sotting MY way ;) 15:49:17 soooo.... you aren't easily insulted & take to blood fueds 15:49:24 ?? 15:49:32 sotting? 15:49:54 shooting! 15:49:58 d0h 15:50:02 Woohoo! Functioning DVD first time! 15:50:07 nope. but if someone threatens my life they better watch out 15:50:11 * Kitanin does that happy dance. 15:50:30 nothing short of endangering my life would cause me to take aim at a live person 15:50:51 Not even standing there chanting "POSTPONE POSTPONE POSTPONE"? :-) 15:53:17 --- nick: Kitanin -> Kitanin-Watching 15:54:21 --- quit: Kitanin-Watching (": war postpone peace ; immediate : freedom postpone slavery ; immediate : ignorance postpone strength ; immediate") 15:54:42 http://kollaboration.org/kolla2001.wmv 15:56:31 ut oh... dr. wifiepoo is going to bitch slap me if i don't get home soon 15:56:54 back to writing my own crappy win4th 15:57:48 --- quit: rafe ("later") 16:00:59 :P 16:51:14 --- join: hp48nik (xru52729fj@1Cust208.tnt4.vancouver.bc.da.uu.net) joined #forth 17:07:32 --- part: hp48nik left #forth 17:16:53 --- quit: I440r () 17:48:11 --- quit: gilbertbsd (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 17:58:29 --- join: lament (~lament@h24-78-145-92.vc.shawcable.net) joined #forth 18:15:41 --- quit: Speuler (saberhagen.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:15:41 --- quit: onetom (saberhagen.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:15:41 --- quit: proteusguy (saberhagen.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:15:41 --- quit: Klaw (saberhagen.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:15:41 --- quit: Robert (saberhagen.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 18:15:54 --- join: Robert_ (~snofs@h21n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #forth 18:16:04 --- join: onetom (~tom@novtan.bio.u-szeged.hu) joined #forth 18:16:08 --- join: proteusguy (~username@65.191.88.177) joined #forth 18:16:22 --- join: Speuler (~Speuler@217.186.70.228) joined #forth 20:03:10 Robert_: awake ? 20:27:40 --- quit: skylan ("Reconnecting") 20:28:41 --- join: skylan (sjh@Riverview16.tbaytel.net) joined #forth 22:09:15 --- quit: clog (^C) 22:09:15 --- log: stopped forth/03.01.21 22:09:39 --- log: started forth/03.01.21 22:09:39 --- join: clog (nef@bespin.org) joined #forth 22:09:39 --- topic: 'Welcome to the Forth Cooking Channel. Ask for our minimal forth recipes! | IsForth: runs on linux, coded in x86 asm - http://isforth.clss.net | official forth sites: http://www.ultratechnology.com/forth.htm & http://www.colorforth.com' 22:09:39 --- topic: set by thin on [Thu Jan 02 15:55:11 2003] 22:09:39 --- names: list (clog Serg_Penguin fridge lament skylan Speuler proteusguy onetom Robert_ OrngeTide Fractal sma TreyB) 23:17:57 --- join: male (~male@cpe-024-033-030-124.midsouth.rr.com) joined #forth 23:19:31 Hello. 23:36:24 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:55:13 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/03.01.21