00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.01.15 00:11:45 --- join: proteus_ (~username@65.191.88.177) joined #forth 00:21:35 --- quit: proteusguy (Connection timed out) 01:50:53 --- quit: proteus_ (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:50:53 --- quit: Klaw (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:50:53 --- quit: rafe (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:50:53 --- quit: Jordey (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:50:53 --- quit: skylan (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:50:54 --- quit: Fractal (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:52:30 --- join: proteus_ (~username@65.191.88.177) joined #forth 01:52:30 --- join: Klaw (chuck@ip68-4-155-247.oc.oc.cox.net) joined #forth 01:52:30 --- join: rafe (~rafe@www.scinq.org) joined #forth 01:52:30 --- join: Jordey (asm@rev213-183-184-9-adsl3.nc-adsl.net) joined #forth 01:52:30 --- join: skylan (sjh@Riverview60.tbaytel.net) joined #forth 01:52:30 --- join: Fractal (jitwdgha@h24-77-171-228.ok.shawcable.net) joined #forth 02:06:28 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 02:14:31 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 03:32:40 --- join: Sylk (search@dialup-125.145.221.203.acc02-geor-mor.comindico.com.au) joined #forth 03:32:55 " In the force if Yoda's so strong, construct a sentence with words in the proper order then why can't he? " 03:35:10 --- part: Sylk left #forth 04:30:05 --- join: Speuler (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba416b.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth 04:30:15 moin 04:31:35 A Speuler! 04:32:55 god_dag the_rob 04:33:38 God morgon. 04:33:48 * Robert will go to school in 10 minutes. 04:33:58 heppi logon 04:34:08 14.05 is definitly a good time to start school :) 04:34:30 14.05 is a good moment to up :) 04:34:33 wake 04:34:55 Nah. Especially not in the winter. 04:35:44 * Speuler is not convinced 04:37:34 re 04:37:51 hi 1tom 04:38:20 i was reading the font driver of flux on the rain heading back home 04:38:39 i cant understand the heart of it :) 04:38:52 beside, i wasnt manage 2 print it in color... 04:39:42 is it a problem of the docs, the way it has been written, or the 1tom-capabilities ? 04:39:54 c u l8, guys 04:40:02 +r, I guess... 04:40:04 good fun school rob 04:40:09 Dankje :) 04:40:16 Only Biology and Sports. 04:40:32 Robert: cya 04:40:38 Speuler: pardon? 04:41:00 there is not much docs 4 the font driver, just some textual description 04:41:25 ah. a help-yourself system 04:41:33 what talks about some black-pixel-skipping optimization 04:41:54 is it black, it won't get repainted black ? 04:41:57 & i havent managed 2 figure it out yet what part is responsible 4 it 04:42:03 sure 04:42:14 no white-pixel skipping ? 04:42:17 so, the characters r transparent 04:42:34 no white.. 04:42:41 hmm 04:43:37 with "has the pixel already the proper color" it might be possible to optimize it a bit more 04:44:09 rather than checking just one special case ("pixel black ?") 04:57:39 nah.. friends on 3 channel r starving 4 me words ;) 05:01:44 "give me the word, exalted oone" ? 05:02:20 sex 05:02:23 sec 05:03:28 " Background pixels add themselves together to become simple additions to the pointer. 05:03:31 " 05:03:43 ah 05:04:06 suppose that means "logically ored" 05:09:22 eeh... 05:09:36 imagine a char bitmap 05:11:49 ...X.. 05:11:49 ..X.X. 05:11:49 ..XXX. 05:11:49 ..X X. 05:12:41 u can draw it in2 the vidmem just by putting only the color bytes 05:12:58 2 those locations where u can find Xes in the bitmap 05:13:17 after u put a pixel, u increment the vidmem pointer 05:14:03 but it an X is followed by 1 or more .s ucan advance the vidmem pointer more than the size of 1 pixel 05:14:18 thus skipping the black pixels. 05:14:20 comprende? 05:14:52 that explains " Background pixels add themselves together to become simple additions to the pointer." ? 05:17:47 yes 05:18:15 if the vidmem pointer is "a" 05:18:32 "each non-black pixel is written to video mem" 05:18:34 then the above bitmap translates 2 the following 05:18:48 color @ a 05:19:02 3 pixelsize * + 05:19:17 over over pixelsize! 05:19:39 1 width + 2 + pixelsize * + 05:19:43 over over pixelsize! 05:19:45 ... 05:20:16 : pixelsize ! 2 ( 16bit mode) + ; 05:25:06 so you get a list of pixel skips to describe characters 05:26:25 like (3,0,2,2,0,2,1,1,0,2,2,-1) 05:26:31 (0 for next line) 05:26:37 (-1 for end of char) 05:26:56 no 05:27:10 u have the bitmap - i think so @ least. 05:27:29 & the flux font driver converts it in2 a 4th program 05:27:49 & linebreaks r not different from black pixels 05:28:03 if width is known true) 05:28:07 they r just width-of-screen + black pixels 05:28:12 sure! 05:28:19 of course its known 05:28:36 thats the heart of chucks ICE methodology 05:28:50 like (3,5,2,41,1,4,2,0) 05:28:57 yes 05:28:57 like (3,5,2,4,1,1,4,2,0) 05:29:24 (0=eochar) 05:29:45 but merged w the white pixel output info (code actually) 05:30:48 i wasn't thinking "multiple-of-8-bits-per-pixel" but "multiple pixels-per-byte" 05:31:00 i.e. monochrome 05:31:58 comparable to "set color, draw pixels until color changes" 05:33:41 yeah, sg like that 05:33:56 but skipping background pixels 05:34:26 but have a look @ the source.html in enth04.zip 05:37:31 you seem to really get into enth, that is , you still like it ? 05:39:50 of course! 05:39:56 why shouldnt i!? 05:40:11 i still wanna make it able 2 run in text mode 05:40:28 & in 8bit color LFB graphics modes 05:40:30 don't know why not. you tell me :) 05:41:36 it required running under msdos ? 05:41:47 or emulation 05:41:56 that is, msdos under emulation 05:45:06 --- quit: Speuler (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 05:45:52 --- join: Speuler (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba416b.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth 05:49:37 hm? 05:49:59 it requires nothing, just a bare x86 iron 05:50:11 ah 05:50:28 real/protected ? 05:50:43 16 bit/32 bit ? 05:52:41 32bit of course 06:14:08 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 06:14:30 Hey Serg. 06:14:35 hi 06:14:40 caught mail ? 06:15:52 i was about write gta3 car stats editor, but discovered some are already done :( 06:22:59 Yeah, I saw it. 06:23:01 Heh. 06:23:14 Not at all like my first BASIC programse ;) 06:23:25 BUt...I wrote them when I was like 10, so I guess I had other goals :) 06:25:37 u mean mine are better or worse ? 06:25:52 i included only working 06:26:45 Better, of course. 06:26:50 i tryed things like 3d spline surface but i don't give incomplete unworking crap 06:27:04 evolution of curve.bas in 3d 06:27:08 Hhee ;) 06:27:33 curve is warped parabola , x in 0 to 1 06:29:21 3d thing was trying to be some 2-arg func warped just like 2d thing... 06:29:45 but i got lost in affine transforms w/o matrices 06:31:01 what do u liked most of this snippets ? 06:32:43 I haven' checked them that carefully... 06:32:47 Anyway, I have to leave now. 06:34:34 ok 06:48:23 who ever wrote lib to work w/ fractions ? 06:50:18 fractions? 06:50:33 like 13/27 5/3 + ? 06:50:50 TILE has that capability 06:53:05 no, i wanna write it 4 my favorite forths 06:54:45 wanna analyze roulette chances, it's better in fractions 06:57:51 and? 06:58:05 aint those r fractions? 06:58:54 are, but i dont want TILE 06:59:05 ? 06:59:15 what do u mean by "dont want"? 06:59:23 what do u want then? 06:59:42 i wanna _write_ fractions myself 4 IsForth or other one i use 07:00:30 so write them dont ask us... 07:00:39 still can undestand ur question 07:00:50 if u wanna write them by urself 07:00:54 why do u ask us 07:00:55 but i'm in doubt how 2 do it 07:01:11 is 32bits enough or i need bignum ? 07:01:13 if u need help, why dont u have a look @ tile src? 07:01:34 bignum? is it an isforth terminology? >;p 07:02:05 2*32bit(cell actually) is pretty much enough ithink 07:02:25 bignum is from lisp, arbitrary precision (and size) integer 07:02:42 mainly if u use double cells 4 intermediate results 07:03:08 aha.. i saw bignum in a C src last time.. 07:03:41 and how can i 'simplify' fraction ( kick out greatest common divisor ) 07:03:50 u are wise, i'll look at tile 07:06:23 Serg_Penguin: calculate greatest common denominator, divide both part of fraction 07:06:50 so how the hell can i do it ? 07:07:03 the gcd ? 07:07:07 in ABC school, i was doing it 'intuitively" 07:07:17 moment ... 07:08:06 -> Speuler what's about weather in DE ? i heard about some donnerwetter... 07:08:27 : gcd ( u1 u2 -- u ) \ greatest common denominator 07:08:27 begin 07:08:27 tuck mod 07:08:27 -dup 0= 07:08:27 until ; 07:08:36 -> Speuler nasty blizzard was in Msk few days ago... 07:08:53 Serg_Penguin: was cold here. 11 C colder than kiew 07:09:46 absolutely ? here was -37 extremly, now ~0, and damn blizzard and wind at transition 07:10:14 tnx 4 gcd... 07:10:24 when it was cold, t'was colder than kiew. now t'is allright. pretty warm actually, 4 C 07:10:38 -dup is ?dup 07:11:12 ok, i gotta run 07:12:08 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 07:37:53 --- join: Sylk (search@dialup-125.145.221.203.acc02-geor-mor.comindico.com.au) joined #forth 07:57:37 --- part: Sylk left #forth 08:03:11 --- join: Kitanin (~clark@SCF61185.ab.hsia.telus.net) joined #forth 08:35:48 --- quit: proteus_ (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:35:59 --- join: proteus_ (~username@65.191.88.177) joined #forth 09:05:12 --- join: amayil (~amayil@209.119.248.36) joined #forth 09:26:42 --- quit: Kitanin (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:59:14 --- part: amayil left #forth 10:28:49 --- nick: Speuler -> PhoodPhrenzy 10:51:48 --- join: I440r (~mark4@sdn-ap-032tnnashP0352.dialsprint.net) joined #forth 11:26:16 --- join: Kitanin (~clark@SCF61185.ab.hsia.telus.net) joined #forth 11:47:38 --- quit: Kitanin (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 12:05:15 --- quit: TreyB (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 12:05:16 --- quit: Robert (calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 12:06:34 --- join: Robert (~Robert@h21n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #forth 12:09:10 --- quit: proteus_ (Connection reset by peer) 12:09:16 --- join: yeahright (~username@65.191.88.177) joined #forth 12:10:07 hi all && a quick ?? 12:10:42 is there a low-level word that does... 12:10:56 ? 12:11:13 hi yeahright 12:11:27 myptr dup @ 1+ 12:11:39 yeahright: are you new in here or do i already know you with some other nick ??? :) 12:11:57 same old rafe 12:12:23 boring... old rafe :) 12:12:23 you want to add 1 to a variable ? 12:12:23 ok thers 2 ways todo this depending on the varialbe 12:12:34 variable foo 12:12:34 foo incr 12:12:45 0 var foo2 12:12:45 incr> foo2 12:13:10 usually coded in asm? 12:13:22 not boring 12:13:39 :) :D 12:13:45 incr> and incr are assembler usually yes 12:13:58 but they could be coded as follows 12:14:39 : incr ( a1 --- ) 1 swap +! ; 12:14:55 : incr> ' >body incr ; 12:14:55 incr> is usually state smart tho 12:15:23 i.e. it knows if your compiling or not 12:15:37 those definitions wont work in all cases but they give you the idea 12:15:37 thanks 12:15:58 yes they do 12:16:01 who is "yearight" ? 12:16:06 who is "yearight" ? 12:16:16 oopts repeat heh 12:16:55 21:09 -!- proteus_ [~username@65.191.88.177] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 12:16:55 21:09 -!- yeahright [~username@65.191.88.177] has joined #forth 12:16:59 Guess :P 12:18:42 aha 12:19:40 rafe: hi 12:19:46 rafe: whats up w flux? 12:20:15 not much recently ... been doing o/s laden forths brb 12:21:42 ? 12:22:15 sorry helping some one w/ their asm not trying to be rude 12:22:23 on #asm 12:23:56 OK back... 12:24:11 question about states & colors in flux 12:24:42 why not a color for string literals in stead of comment blue? 12:24:46 --- nick: yeahright -> proteusguy 12:25:11 rafe: :) 12:25:18 Sorry - this happens when my irc connection gets flaky. 12:25:22 yes onetome? 12:25:23 strings can b any color 12:25:32 ?? 12:25:44 & they r also printed w colors 12:25:52 they're all blue in the source no? 12:26:03 just have a look @ the shadow block of 12x22 12:26:13 no, they arent 12:26:28 hold on need to call up the html 12:27:20 * onetom is about 2 have a shower. its 21:25 here. worktime is coming... 12:28:39 sorry... i'm at work too 12:29:05 how does that block begin? 12:30:23 hold on my bad... 12:30:33 sorry yet again 12:30:34 sec 12:30:46 im also busy, but who cares :) 12:31:12 12x22 Font occupies 33 blocks of dictionary space 12:31:21 Color tokens are characters too. They include a color change in their code but otherwise operate like space. 12:31:24 The numbering color tokens, 4 and 5, also alter the system number base. This means that when displaying numbers, both display base and color can be set with a single color token emit. 12:33:51 but... why not have a color for string literal? 12:34:11 bad idea? 12:36:01 mmm... not sure how that read so... I'm not being critical, I seek enlightenment 12:36:54 ... 12:37:20 u can display colored text in unices like this: 12:38:41 echo -e '\e12;1[m some colored text \e[m' 12:38:48 or sg like that 12:39:08 in flux, u can also code the color of the text into the spaces 12:39:57 so you're building up definitions/actions in the string? 12:40:15 :) 12:40:43 no color isnt matter inside definitions beside they that r display 12:40:44 ed 12:41:34 just to drive the point hme to the newbie: so in the draw defintion 12:41:55 there is a ." Tetris v1" ; 12:42:21 have a look @ ." Origin" 4example 12:43:04 or the t0 t1 ... words r double colored 12:43:13 Origin is yellow 12:43:35 btw, this is the definition of " 34 fparse csliteral ; 12:44:32 the string is white in the Mem block & green in the Clock blk 12:44:52 the double means... nothing? or something? 12:44:55 enough examples? ;) 12:45:16 ok 12:45:49 double? nothin special, just those strings has a green and a blue colored word 12:46:13 ok 12:47:12 have u managed 2 understand finally? 12:47:33 anyway, there is the source of type in the screen blk. 12:47:34 i a bit slow today 12:47:49 imean in the font blks 12:49:14 but i havent understood them totally either yet :) 12:49:42 these r the relevant lines: 12:49:43 fg color dup @ lit lit ! ; 12:49:43 t fg space ; !> fg cr ; ; 12:49:43 w !+ t ; n !+ lit base ! t ; 12:49:43 00 99 ff rgb dup pen w red w green w white w cyan 10 n magenta 16 n yellow w 99 aa 66 rgb pen w pen w w w w w w w w 64 a +! 96 exp font ignore 12:49:46 emit c- pause 127 min 4 * ascii + @ push color @ xy @ pop call drop drop ; 12:49:49 type au- -1 ? if for dup c@ emit 1 + next drop ; then drop drop ; 12:50:18 but those 1letter words wo description in the shadow blks drive me crazy :) 12:51:05 ok 12:51:07 :) 12:51:49 thanx 12:59:30 hehe.. im getting 2 understand the code 13:01:47 1 have 2 follow the postponed colored words 13:10:44 --- join: male (~male@cpe-024-033-030-124.midsouth.rr.com) joined #forth 13:11:14 I440r, I noticed your release on freshmeat. 13:11:55 what? isforth was announced on freshmeat? 13:12:11 You made a comment on your website about requiring some book. Is the ncurses source code/documentation not enough? 13:13:02 Well, yes onetom. 13:13:17 It isn't like winning an award. 13:13:48 yeah, its sg like that 13:14:48 yea 13:14:58 no 13:14:58 definatly not 13:15:16 Not what I440r? 13:15:16 the ncurses documentation tells you how to use ncurses 13:15:21 the code is obfuscated 13:15:26 to me 13:15:28 Well, yes. But the source code is pretty obvious. 13:15:43 i need the book termcap and terminfo 13:15:54 Terminfo is braindead to begin with, no book is going to clear that up ;-) 13:15:57 because what i need to know isnt documented anywhere else that i can find and MAY not be directly documented there 13:16:10 tho - the guy that develops ncurses tells me thats what i need 13:16:29 no - terminfo isnt braindead 13:16:35 the people who implement it are 13:16:45 if they would pull their head out of their asses terminfo would be the perfect solution 13:16:51 to a very complex problem 13:17:26 I doubt that. And you're right, it is a hell of a problem. But if terminfo was what it should be we wouldn't have to use curses. 13:17:44 no 13:17:50 Terminfo provides just enough of an abstraction to be a bother. 13:17:54 you would still need curses 13:18:04 terminfo just describes how to do various things in a given terminal 13:18:20 problem is no terminfo file states how to do ANY operation in the terminal 13:18:20 for instance 13:18:21 Look at color for instance. 13:18:27 rxvt termials dont have a format string for an sgr 13:18:38 yet it DOES support the sgr 13:18:51 does it use a "standard" format for the sgr? - in this case yes 13:19:09 Right, well then terminfo should provide a facility to emulate that functionality. Like a graphics library would. 13:19:13 but there could be cases where neither terminal X nor terminal Y have a format for some operation 13:19:21 yet where they both have different formats for that operation 13:19:23 i need to know this 13:19:41 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 13:20:20 hi ! 13:20:42 serg! 13:20:42 hi 13:21:03 For my own benefit, I440r, could you explain to me the structure of the terminfo interface that you're creating? I assume it is completely in forth. 13:21:35 Can your forth interface with c libraries like libncurses? 13:21:54 its in forth 13:22:04 no - but some day i might add that 13:22:05 Or are you still on that linux kernel kick? ;-) 13:22:08 its sort of on the long term todo list heh 13:22:34 why curses ? it's damn obscure, and can be done in much less code 13:22:52 i have done it in much less code :P 13:22:53 and anyway, curses is LAME 13:22:55 Well, if you ask me what we need more than a terminfo parser in forth is a C terminfo library that is thread-safe. 13:23:29 proggies should be pipe-friendly 13:23:51 serg thats planned - but its not trivial 13:24:06 It has been years since I have heard someone say the word "proggies". 13:25:39 Next thing you know we'll have some Visual Basic programmers in here ;-) 13:26:03 if i'll need it stronger than now, i'll do IsForth pipe friendly :) 13:26:52 isforth has to do some tests at startup to see if stdin is a pipe or not 13:27:04 --- join: Kitanin (~clark@SCF61185.ab.hsia.telus.net) joined #forth 13:27:18 does reading from a pipe eof when the file being piped ends ? 13:27:34 It should, IIRC 13:27:38 by defining '.>' and '.OK' deferred words, w/ ability to say ` noop IS .OK 13:27:48 it DOESN't 13:28:02 i ad-kluged it by assuming 0 is EOF 13:28:16 it was reading endless zeroes after EOF 13:28:23 --- nick: PhoodPhrenzy -> BurpMaster 13:28:29 aread of no data = eof? 13:28:32 at least in my 'dissociated press' 13:29:03 yes - if you try read from the pipe it should tell you how much data was read in. 13:29:18 no, coz i was mangling TXT filez only, i assumed 0 is EOF 13:29:30 But it isn't. 13:29:39 Zero is also a number ;-) 13:30:08 I440r: What platform? 13:30:11 well that could be a bad assumtoion :) 13:30:14 -> male but 0 is not walid char 13:30:15 kit - linux :P 13:30:20 Yes is it. 13:30:28 It is, rather. 13:30:42 Lots of textual files contain nulls. 13:30:54 ??? 13:30:59 Then a 0 return on a read system call is EOF, under normal circumstances. 13:31:05 --- join: gilbertbsd (~gilbertbs@67.97.122.25) joined #forth 13:31:26 kit yes - not a read of a 0x00 but a read of zero bytes is eof 13:31:47 Yes. Even with pipes. Unless you've set non-blocking IO. 13:31:55 i was reading STDIN by KEY 13:32:11 it doesn't return number of read bytez :( 13:32:14 yes. when you pipe data into a program the pip IS its stdin 13:32:21 but how does the progam know that 13:32:30 gotta go 2 have a dinner 13:32:37 how can isforth tell the difference between data piped to it or someont typing 13:33:23 Well, you can test whether input is from a tty. 13:33:35 I440r: isatty(0) returns 1 if stdin's a terminal, 0 otherwise. 13:33:44 is isatty a syscall ? 13:34:03 It's in unistd.h 13:34:22 Kitanin: isforth is in assembly. 13:34:32 Oh, right. Hrm... Gimmie a sec. 13:34:38 if its in unistd.h its a syscall :P 13:34:42 ill try man 2 isatty 13:34:53 nope 13:34:55 its not a syscall 13:35:06 --- join: sma_ (stephenma@ashd174qy22og.bc.hsia.telus.net) joined #forth 13:35:26 Theres an ioctl for it too. 13:35:42 Or so I recall. 13:35:43 aha 13:35:43 hi sma! 13:35:50 You're looking for fstat then (man 2 fstat). 13:35:55 I440r: hi! how's it going? 13:36:22 just released 1.10b 13:36:22 so male. what's new in the world of trivalent logic? 13:36:29 logicus trivalentia! 13:36:54 I440r: great. i'll download and see, later today. 13:37:16 Damn near nothing. I actually spend most of last night dealing with the effects of changes in the new gcc. 13:37:32 theres still some work to do but i need more info to finish it heh 13:37:53 :) anything i can help with? 13:38:13 I'm really just spinning my wheels in the area of software only garbage collection. Nothing seems to suit me. 13:38:19 * Kitanin runs off to sourcedive glibc to get I440r's answer. 13:38:27 Always searching for perfection, you know. 13:39:23 heh 13:39:43 male perhaps you secretly are a writer at heart. 13:39:46 It is on by TODO list to add a tri-valent logic extension to my language. It will include new logic operators and new conditionals.. I have no idea of what use it will be, though. 13:39:49 or a manager. 13:39:55 reason: you don't know what to do. 13:40:05 proof of 'writer at heart': you are an online chatter. 13:40:35 * sma_ realizes he has to get back to work 13:40:43 see you all later 13:40:53 --- quit: sma_ ("bye") 13:41:08 Actually, I try to stay clear of irc.. Too many immature and uninformmed people ;-). But I figure the average forther is about 48 years old... 13:41:45 bwahahaha. 13:41:57 * gilbertbsd is not yet 48. 13:42:10 then again, I am not a bonafide forther. 13:44:20 You know, When a forther dies they bury him in a million disjoin pieces so that the mourners have no idea what he was originally. 13:44:40 hmmm. 13:45:12 male i am still not sure what the advantage of trivalent logic is. 13:45:40 Oh, neither am I. All it really gives you is the ability to make cleaver inferrences. 13:46:01 Which is great for AI type applications, but not of much use for anything else. 13:46:20