00:00:00 --- log: started forth/03.01.04
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02:57:16 <OrngeTide> *sigh* time to buy a new monitor. damn iiyama sucks. jus had two go out within 2 months of each other. (bought them at the same time, same models, etc)
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04:36:35 <fridge> OrngeTide: just out of warranty too?
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06:44:50 <Robert> Hey there.
06:45:12 <Speuler> re
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06:53:04 <mur> hello
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14:17:31 <TheBlueWizard> hiya all
14:17:43 <TheBlueWizard> will be here briefly
14:17:52 <Robert> Hi :)
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14:23:23 <TheBlueWizard> hiya Robert
14:23:26 <TheBlueWizard> hiya lament
14:23:43 <lament> hi.
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14:26:12 <Robert> And hiya proteusguy ;)
14:30:21 <proteusguy> Hey Robert. Anything new & interesting?
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14:35:21 <Robert> Hmmm.
14:35:35 <Robert> I saw a guy converting to Forth.
14:35:43 <proteusguy> Did it hurt?
14:35:51 <Robert> No. It was Wonderful(tm).
14:36:00 <Robert> He liked it from the very beginning :)
14:36:47 <proteusguy> haha well that's good. So how's your forth coming along?
14:37:22 <Robert> I'm working on a VM for my AVR chip now. I'm saving the Forth compiler to after that.
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14:38:14 <proteusguy> ok cool. Very interested in seeing that AVR stuff.
14:39:28 <Robert> Hmm. If you want to check the old VM (it's so ugly your eyes will hurt, but anyway...), check http://robert.zizi.org/pub
14:39:39 <Robert> In the projects/tiniervm dir you'll find it.
14:45:01 <proteusguy> tinervm - how funny.
14:45:11 <Robert> Huh?
14:45:33 <Robert> You know.. there are three VMs. TinyVM, TinierVM and MuchTinierVM.
14:45:42 <Robert> The middle one is however the tiniest.
14:45:52 <Robert> And the first isn't at all tiny.
14:52:03 <proteusguy> Perhaps rename Tiner to Tiniest?
14:53:09 <Robert> Nah. Too lazy.
15:16:00 <Speuler> rename it to lazy ?
15:16:24 <Speuler> 'morning
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16:03:26 <TheBlueWizard> gotta go...bye all
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16:07:12 <onetom> did u know about this?
16:07:12 <onetom> http://gatekeeper.dec.com/pub/BSD/FreeBSD/snapshots%20/alpha/5-LATEST/boot/
16:08:48 <onetom> there r 2 4th sources in/4 the FreeBSD bootloader
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17:36:51 <Robert> Hi.
17:59:58 <onetom> hi
18:00:13 <onetom> Robert: nah, what about my bsd question above?
18:00:45 <Robert> Er..
18:00:58 <onetom> pgup
18:01:05 <Robert> 01:07 < onetom> did u know about this?
18:01:05 <Robert> 01:07 < onetom> http://gatekeeper.dec.com/pub/BSD/FreeBSD/snapshots%20/alpha/5-LATEST/boot/
18:01:08 <Robert> 01:08 < onetom> there r 2 4th sources in/4 the FreeBSD bootloader
18:01:10 <Robert> That?
18:01:11 <Robert> I heard there was some Forth code there, yes.
18:01:19 <Robert> But I've not studied it in detail.
18:01:40 <Robert> A guy in #minix on efnet was playing with Forth on his sparcstation.
18:01:41 <onetom> its important 2 know about it i think
18:02:15 <onetom> coz ppl usually ask u about areas where 4th is already successfully applied
18:02:43 <onetom> & if u say that its an integral part of a bsd base system
18:03:07 <onetom> probably they gonna look 4 4th w much more respect
18:03:16 <onetom> & also @ u ;)
18:03:32 <Robert> Heh.
18:03:47 <Robert> I just show them how to implement constant and variables in one line.
18:04:00 <Robert> And ask them to do the same in C or whatever language they are using.
18:07:03 <onetom> & how?
18:07:21 <onetom> coz i think they say these r already implemented in C
18:08:47 <TreyB> On the other hand, some people respect those that converse in proper English.
18:11:40 <Robert> TreyB: There's a troll in #atheism on EFnet writing silly messages in proper English, and a skilled programmer in #forth using a very messed up version of it.
18:12:18 <Robert> Your language says a lot, but not everything.
18:12:42 <onetom> :)
18:12:42 <Robert> onetom: No, they get impressed and use Forth. ;)
18:12:50 <onetom> thx
18:12:56 <onetom> lol
18:13:07 <onetom> how lucky u r
18:13:43 <Robert> Nah, I'm not serious. They just say that "if Forth is so good, why are everyone using C?"
18:14:11 <onetom> i dont have 2 many friends of that kind. could u deliver me some? ;)
18:15:00 <TreyB> Robert: (about language) I agree.  I find it annoying that onetom has the inteligence but not the desire.
18:15:17 <onetom> such is life
18:15:29 <lament> heh
18:15:50 <onetom> i had a lot knowledge about language & attitudes toward it
18:16:01 <onetom> *have
18:16:32 <TreyB> heh
18:16:33 <lament> yet when I asked you why you use such strange language, you tried to defend yourself by saying english is not your native language
18:16:47 <onetom> thats 1 reason amongst many other i refuse 2 write proper english
18:17:08 <onetom> uknow, my ex-gf is a linguist...
18:17:18 <TreyB> Get over it :-)
18:17:27 <lament> i'm just pointing out that "i have a lot knowledge about language" and "i misspell things because enlgish is my second language" don't exactly fit together...
18:17:52 <onetom> why?
18:17:58 <TreyB> lament: he doesn't misspell things.  He spells them that way on purpose.  *sigh*
18:18:58 <onetom> ah, those abbrevs & homonyms of mine was refered 2 as misspellings...
18:19:12 <Robert> Hey, he's a true Forther. He factors out sounds.
18:19:25 <onetom> thats right, anyway
18:19:54 <onetom> thats another reason, tho not a serious 1 ;)
18:20:00 <lament> I thought one of the reasons to refactor code was to make it prettier :)
18:20:17 <onetom> :)) c c c
18:21:15 <onetom>  yo sai moin is not preetiea dad wai?
18:21:51 <onetom> anyway, its a silly & offtopic conv here
18:22:16 <Robert> IRC outside #forth is usuallt off-topic.
18:22:18 <Robert> usually
18:22:52 <onetom> anyway, its a silly & offtopic conv here dup 4 * allot swap rot dump .. ;)
18:23:10 <onetom> brekeke
18:23:30 <onetom> <new page>
18:23:47 <onetom> i wrote me 1st prg in flux last evening
18:24:11 <TreyB> What does it do?
18:24:12 <onetom> its displays a text mode vid mem
18:24:35 <onetom> on fluxs graphical display
18:24:56 * TreyB doesn't get it.
18:24:59 <onetom> so i can adapt the flux editor 2 txt mode
18:25:05 <TreyB> Ah.
18:25:18 <TreyB> You can just go back to Enth 0.2.x :-)
18:26:02 <onetom> but its obsolent
18:26:22 <onetom> many things has changed since 0.2
18:28:32 <onetom> TreyB: have u tried the latest enth?
18:28:39 <onetom> its much more simpler & cleaner
18:28:47 <onetom> than its predessors
18:29:09 <TreyB> I haven't invested much time it in.  It won't run under VMWare any more.
18:29:19 <onetom> & not only the user interface but the mem,task&dict handling has also changed
18:29:38 <onetom> TreyB: hey, i have some good news 4 ya. i WILL
18:29:42 <onetom> it WILL
18:30:03 <onetom> thats why im tryin 2 make a txt mode version of it 1st
18:30:23 <onetom> then comes an 8bit lfb version
18:30:36 <onetom> so it should also run under bochs
18:31:02 <TreyB> You have a version that runs under VMWare right now?
18:31:40 <onetom> not atm, but ihope im gonna have 1 in a week
18:31:49 <onetom> sean helps me 2
18:31:52 <TreyB> Ah.
18:32:09 <onetom> would u b interested in it then?
18:32:22 <TreyB> I've written a graphics driver for VMWare for another OS.  I'd like to write one for Enth.
18:32:30 <onetom> wooow
18:32:53 <TreyB> But Enth needs restructuring a bit, plus PCI bus support, etc.
18:32:56 <onetom> i also had a look & the XFree86 vmware drvs
18:33:10 <onetom> aha..
18:33:22 <onetom> well its a bit larger task
18:33:26 <TreyB> I don't have the time to dig that deep, unfortunately.
18:33:56 <onetom> but some of the original color4th variants have such seeds of code
18:34:26 <TreyB> Yes, they seem to.
18:34:29 <onetom> probably w a txt mode flux we can develop such drvs more easily
18:34:46 <onetom> cant we
18:34:59 <TreyB> I don't know.  The mode set code runs very early in the Enth boot process.
18:35:20 <onetom> <sigh> thats right
18:35:34 <onetom> but the pci bus stuff..
18:35:35 <TreyB> Hence my comment about restructuring.
18:36:17 <onetom> anyway, will c. let there b a txt mode 1st
18:36:18 <TreyB> I wrote some workable (bare bones) PCI bus code in less than a screen in Enth 0.2.x
18:36:30 <onetom> & where is it available?
18:36:42 <TreyB> I'll see if I can dig it up.
18:36:48 <onetom> u should ;)
18:37:02 <TreyB> I probably have it on an Enth VMWare .flp image someplace.
18:37:17 <onetom> email them all! :)
18:37:21 <TreyB> heh
18:37:38 * TreyB boots Enth in VMWare.
18:37:52 <onetom> btw 1 of the mplayer developers seems 2 get more & more interested in a small, an embeddable mplayer version..
18:40:20 * onetom tries 2 install a plus machine dedicated 4 flux
18:40:29 <onetom> 2
18:51:10 <onetom> fck..
18:51:29 <onetom> enth04 doesnt work on a 2GHz machine..
18:51:54 <Robert> Heh.
18:51:55 <onetom> i suppose its related 2 the speed
18:52:47 <onetom> probably the keyb drv is the "buggy" piece
19:04:54 * TreyB fails to find the aforementioned Enth image.
19:06:53 <onetom> :(
19:07:29 <onetom> dont u have by chance any idea about the problem mentioned above?
19:08:10 <onetom> the keyboard doesnt work if i run enth04 on a newer/faster machine
19:08:37 <TreyB> He probably uses a hard coded/uncalibrated timing loop.
19:08:47 <onetom> it polls
19:08:54 <TreyB> Hmmm.
19:09:02 <onetom> no explicit timing afair
19:09:21 <TreyB> What kind of keyboard?
19:09:51 <onetom> http://sec.dunasoft.com:9673/wiki/forth/source.html
19:10:08 <onetom> look4 "Keyboard"
19:10:52 <onetom> ps/2 of course. newer machines doesnt have at keyb conn
19:11:28 <onetom> btw, it runs perfectly on a 1.5GHz asus laptop
19:12:47 <TreyB> I meant, does the new machine use a USB keyboard?
19:13:07 <onetom> enth206 works ok.. hm :/
19:13:33 <onetom> aha :) usb keyb is not that common here yet
19:17:24 <onetom>  0h     -> 0FFFFh        GDT. IDT. IRQ variables. VESA video descriptor.
19:18:37 <onetom> isr1:                                   ; ISR for IRQ 1 = Keyboard
19:18:38 <onetom>         push eax
19:18:38 <onetom>         mov dword [kbdevent], 60h
19:18:38 <onetom>         call reset8259m
19:18:38 <onetom>         pop eax
19:18:40 <onetom>         iret
19:18:52 <onetom> reset8259m:
19:18:52 <onetom>         mov al, 20h
19:18:52 <onetom>         out 020h, al                    ; reset master PIC
19:18:52 <onetom>         ret
19:19:28 <onetom> thats all
19:20:24 <onetom> in v206:
19:20:39 <onetom>         pusha
19:20:39 <onetom>         dec dword [kbdevent]
19:20:39 <onetom>         call reset8259m
19:20:39 <onetom>         popa
19:20:39 <onetom>         iret
19:20:45 <onetom> reset8259m:
19:20:45 <onetom>         mov al, 20h
19:20:45 <onetom>         out 020h, al                    ; reset master PIC
19:20:45 <onetom>         ret
19:22:56 <onetom> its very strange, coz the highlevel driver says:
19:22:59 <onetom>  sc@ -u irq1 @ -1 ? if pc@ 0  irq1 ! ; then drop pause sc@ ;
19:23:25 <onetom> where irq1 == [kbdevent]
19:24:10 <onetom> & it test its value against -1 while the keyb int puts 60h in2 it..
19:24:20 <onetom> any ideas now?
19:25:18 <TreyB> What does "?" do in Enth/Flux?
19:25:49 <onetom> its a "test" x86 instruction what sets the Z flag
19:25:59 <onetom> & "if" tests Z
19:26:48 <onetom> its like : ? over = ;
19:27:32 <onetom> so "if" is a non-destructive if
19:27:36 <TreyB> Hmmm.  "pause" == task switch?
19:27:41 <onetom> yes
19:28:08 <onetom> unless defined noop, like  in the color terminal src
19:28:16 <TreyB> What happens under 04x if you hold down a key?
19:28:54 <onetom> while booting?
19:28:59 <onetom> or anyway
19:29:31 * onetom tries
19:29:32 <TreyB> You said that the keyboard didn't work.  I want to know what happens if you hold down a key in the "doesn't work" condition.
19:30:05 <onetom> abs nothin
19:30:06 <onetom> BUT
19:30:28 <onetom> let me try sg i tried on other similar machines
19:30:37 <onetom> kbd plug in & out
19:31:00 <onetom> aha, thats it again:
19:31:17 <onetom> if i start 2 type asdf
19:31:37 <onetom> i displays <nothin>ASD
19:32:02 <onetom> itype ZXCV
19:32:13 <onetom> disps |ZXC
19:32:44 <onetom> there is some shift in the scancode..
19:35:48 * onetom browses the 206 keyb drv
19:39:31 * onetom fails 2 find the connection between the isr & keyb drv :(
19:40:10 * onetom tries 2 modify enth04s isr 2 look the same as 206s
19:43:46 <TreyB> http://www.acm.uiuc.edu/sigops/roll_your_own/i386/pci.html
19:46:37 <onetom> aha. &?
19:47:39 <onetom> its a very nice link anyway..
20:15:41 <TreyB> G'night, all.
20:19:24 <onetom> bye
20:19:41 <onetom> & thx 4 pointing out that great link
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21:11:36 <Herkamire> onetom:  any progress with enth + bochs?
21:22:02 <Herkamire> oop, bedtime
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