00:00:00 --- log: started forth/02.12.27 00:21:08 onetom_: hi! (will be here very briefly) 00:22:14 onetom_: i tried your patch for metacompiling enth under gforth 00:23:07 onetom_: with just 1 change, it works! the resulting "enth.bin" is even bit-for-bit identical to the one produced under win32forth. amazing. 00:23:56 onetom_: the change to the patch you gave me: add ": binary 2 base ! ;" to Emake.f 00:25:10 onetom_: (i'm running gforth 0.5.0) 00:28:45 onetom_: well, i have to go.... i will send you the same info via email. bye 01:02:32 --- quit: lament ("mental mantle") 02:22:43 --- part: sylk left #forth 02:50:24 hi 02:51:56 sma: hm.. that was a problem 4 me 2. cant understand how can that change get lost.. :/ 02:52:23 thx 4 the testing, im gonna send it 2 sean 03:25:42 Good morning. 03:26:02 Whoa.. onetom_, do you ever sleep? 03:26:27 :) i do but not much 03:26:52 * Robert noticed :P 03:27:00 * Robert fires up Flux again 03:27:08 Hmm... 03:27:20 great!! lets rock! :) 03:27:21 How much code is _not_ in colorforth? 03:27:38 ~50k asm+forth 03:28:27 ~10k in pure nasm 4 the 512byte bootsector & 4 the1024byte "kernel" what inits pmode 03:29:14 Ah... 03:29:18 Not much at all! 03:29:44 absolutely not much 03:33:16 What does CMOVE> do? 03:36:17 its the most dumb version of move 03:36:46 it moves bytes from lower 2 higher adresses 03:37:11 or backwards? cant recall actually :) 03:37:48 Okay :) Thanks 03:38:52 uknow there can b problem w overlapping src & dst areas 03:39:21 cmove & cmove> doesnt do any chkin so they r fast 03:39:57 but maybe am wrong so chk some manual 04:00:34 --- join: lament (~lament@h24-78-145-92.vc.shawcable.net) joined #forth 04:03:51 i. 04:03:55 Hi 04:04:11 hi. 05:19:52 --- quit: Herkamire ("leaving") 06:28:06 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@wsip68-15-54-54.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 06:30:24 :) 06:37:52 :) 06:38:33 I left irssi on while I was sleeping by accedent, but now I'm really here 06:48:13 welcome then 06:48:41 Robert: whats up w flux? 06:48:51 I'm browsing around in the sources. 06:48:58 shall i help u? 06:49:04 With? 06:49:15 w the understanding 06:49:56 Hmm.. nah, it's OK. I'm playing with my own little Forth compiler now. 06:50:24 c 06:50:29 However, I'm wondering how I should arrange the memory managment. 06:50:31 what r u doing w that? 06:50:50 Is unloading words something important? 06:51:01 forget it ;) 06:51:11 in the flux model it is 06:51:20 How does it forget words? 06:51:29 coz it helps minimizing memori usage 06:51:52 it sets the dict prt back 2 an earlier point 06:52:08 How is that done? 06:52:10 & it also frees the dinamically allocated mem since that point 06:52:16 I mean, if you forget a word somewhere in the middle... 06:52:41 no, it doesnt work a per-word basis 06:53:46 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 06:53:57 hi 06:54:23 Hi :) 06:54:29 onetom_: How does it work then? 06:55:27 Robert: do u know the marker mechanism? 06:55:45 No 06:56:32 : marker create here , does> @ dp ! ; 06:56:42 or sg like that.. 06:57:15 oops, what about restore LATEST ??? 06:57:21 so u define a word what is able 2 forget everything defined after it 06:57:29 Serg_Penguin: eeh.. 06:57:31 Serg_Penguin: 06:57:33 12-27 15:59:27 < onetom_> or sg like that.. 06:57:44 onetom_: What if things you don't want to forget is after it? 06:58:18 Robert: then u defined the marker @ a bad point 06:58:29 so u need GC-driven forth :((( 06:59:01 brb few min 06:59:14 --- nick: onetom_ -> onetom 06:59:23 Hm. 06:59:32 --- join: FML (~FML@pD9E4E897.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 06:59:36 howdy all 06:59:37 onetom: You mean, only one program at the time is loaded?= 06:59:42 Hi there, FML. 06:59:43 hey, dont forget that its not 4 dinamic mem management 06:59:56 imean not a general purpose 1 07:00:21 its just a scheme 4 dynamic dict management 07:01:11 but the flux docs explain these ideas deeper 07:01:22 hello FML 07:02:22 OK, I'll check 07:03:25 those docs r not very detailed either but they help a lot 07:03:56 probably we can make up questions so sean can clarify his ideas more 2 us 07:04:07 Hi there, Robert. hello FML :-) 07:04:29 Hi there, Robert. hello onetom :-) 07:04:34 better 07:05:00 re 07:05:29 hi FML ! 07:05:44 platform, xperience ? 07:06:04 me - linux, windoze, tiny gamez\utils 07:06:05 yea. hi Serg_Penguin! 07:06:32 isforth, + some RU ones 07:06:35 newbie. several plattforms 07:07:30 RU ones. thats interesting! want to tell more? 07:08:30 www.forth.ru, gp-forth (dos 64k), smal32 (dos dpmi32, linux) 07:09:00 one-liner sokoban, ask Robert, site dead 07:09:19 cryptomancer.chat.ru, if it came up 07:09:23 RU FIG looks very very full featured and decent! Even if you only read the english written stuff. quite amazing and helpful 07:10:40 TNX 07:10:50 we got some ENG too 07:11:06 Michael Gassanenko wrote alot bi-lingual 07:12:58 if newbie, red ultratech stuff from topic, it _mega_ rulez 07:13:12 i wrote my 1-line soko after it 07:15:36 YES. i'm very glad about jeff's page. same w/ RU FIG page! 07:16:24 and Robert wrote some kewl thingie after my soko 07:21:36 Serg: does your soko use graphic blit? 07:22:30 --- join: mur (jukka@baana-62-165-185-34.phnet.fi) joined #forth 07:22:42 or ascii? 07:23:14 40x25 RAM poke ascii 07:26:09 gfx suxx, ascii nethack/angband rulez !!! 07:36:38 z 07:39:47 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 08:15:42 --- join: wossname (wossname@HSE-QuebecCity-ppp80890.qc.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 08:21:10 --- quit: Fractal (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:22:29 --- quit: lament ("mental mantle") 08:31:46 --- join: tathi (~josh@wsip68-15-54-54.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 08:32:01 * mur EA7F00Dh // now 08:32:22 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 08:32:58 wb 08:33:07 Hi Serg., 08:33:08 so what did u wrote ? 08:33:16 ? 08:33:30 -> FML so what did u wrote ? 08:33:54 :l 08:34:48 -> Robert i'll try to write at least GRUB-boot pmode 'hello world' w/ u'r tutors 08:34:56 WWWelcome BBBack or do you mean what *.f i wrote yet 08:35:10 yeah i do mean it 08:35:32 Hehe. 08:35:43 Confusion...sweet confusion. 08:36:11 Serg_Penguin: hah! u r back! 08:36:43 :( men here are drinking... 08:37:00 dog fu... that unholydayz... 08:38:40 i really dream about forth OS (better YA UNIX written in Forth), and HiWorld will be a good start :) 08:39:18 -> onetom have read AHA stuff u suggested :) 08:39:35 Serg_Penguin: sec... id like 2 ask u some questions 08:39:42 _I_ have read... 08:41:41 -> onetom i listen... 08:45:48 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 08:53:16 * mur B4C8h 08:53:48 welcome 08:54:04 thank you! 08:57:18 mur: b4c8? 08:58:44 back 08:58:45 :) 08:58:58 * mur COUDL have put it also BAC8 08:58:59 :) 08:59:01 aaaaahhh :) 08:59:26 but stil.. what is that 8? 09:00:07 k 09:00:08 :) 09:00:35 hm.. it doesnt even resembles 2 kay letter.. :/ 09:01:31 B4C|< 09:02:46 * mur donest remember seeing those in hex numbers 09:03:48 sure sure but still.. its 2 much.. enforced.. 09:04:33 1EA7F00Dh 09:04:46 1A7EF00Dh 09:04:55 latefood? 09:05:03 1A8BACh 09:05:06 no 09:05:11 i dont know 09:05:26 F00Dh 09:05:31 only F00Dh 09:05:39 ah 09:05:48 whops.. noo.. i Ate food 09:05:52 not late food : 09:05:53 :) 09:05:59 18F00Dh 09:06:05 aha! 09:06:22 F00F00D 09:06:42 7177135 09:07:15 dirty you 09:07:16 :) 09:07:42 1337D00Dh 09:18:04 i really dream about forth OS <-- btw i noticed that #forthos isn't registered anymore since a few days... 09:18:41 anyone cares? 09:18:45 FML: everybody just talked here instead of using #forthos...so it's gone now. 09:19:20 I assume it will come back if someone starts whining about the forth OS discussions being off-topic for _this_ channel :) 09:19:43 :-) ok 09:20:40 :) 09:21:13 ;-) 09:21:20 FML: futhin & i have started #forthos but the lack of time & knowledge 09:21:30 made us not talkin about it 09:22:15 we have studied several advanced things since 09:22:19 hmm 09:24:56 read a bit http://www.forthos.org/ 09:28:44 onetom: several advanced things??? :-o 09:29:09 :-) wow 09:29:36 curious ;-) 09:29:49 it works 09:30:05 u can try it easily in vmware 4 example 09:31:10 FML: the advanced things was the ultratechnology site, smalltalk&squeak & the like 09:31:37 have you tried the other hosting (selfmade) OS as well? 09:32:04 "the other"? 09:33:25 forthos is standalone or hosted on an OS (what was the name?) by the same author 09:35:44 w/ qnx and hurd (µkernel) eg. token as sample 09:36:46 i remember: "VSTa" is it called 09:42:28 it can run alone or over any posix complaint os 09:42:53 i havent managed 2 run it under linux tho 09:43:24 but it should work under VSTa 09:43:50 but i never tries vsta 09:43:53 tried 09:52:24 --- join: Soap` (~flop@202-0-42-22.cable.paradise.net.nz) joined #forth 09:53:18 hahaa! soap 09:53:28 merry xmas 09:54:36 'ello 09:55:07 hows life? 09:57:24 I've just survived the annual xmas family reunion. 09:57:37 :D 09:57:57 then u must b tired, ithink so 09:58:37 Yeah. I think one of the chief joys of the season is getting back home and having a long hot shower without having to worry about saving water for various uncles, aunts, cousins, nieces and nephews. 09:58:39 bbl 09:58:51 loll 09:58:53 cya 09:59:55 Soap`, you need sauna :D 10:00:13 Heh. 10:08:05 --- join: Kitanin (~Kitanin@SCF61185.ab.hsia.telus.net) joined #forth 10:09:39 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 10:40:22 --- join: proteusguy (~username@65.191.88.177) joined #forth 10:40:23 --- quit: Kitanin (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:46:11 some xmass carols make my ass twitch 11:14:16 --- quit: proteusguy ("Client Exiting") 11:15:37 well that must be psychological symptom then 11:42:32 --- join: Speuler (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba4e5e.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth 11:42:53 'morning 11:43:19 hi 11:44:30 1tom: zwiki 1.1 seems to be broken. 0.9 (woody) installs ok 11:46:37 could b :( 11:47:16 so u have finally managed 2 install zope? 11:47:16 --- nick: Speuler -> toothcare 11:47:21 oh 11:47:41 installed, yes. even got password set for emergency user 11:47:44 u wash it? 11:47:57 & what was the problem w it? 11:48:12 adding additional users doesn't work yet. those can't log in 11:48:23 actually, i don't know 11:48:44 i unstalled zope from woody, set password, then upgraded 11:48:47 to the sarge version 11:48:48 u have 2 add them 2 the root acl_users folder 11:49:25 i would recommend u using zope from *.tgz 11:49:44 all u have 2 do is just extract it in2 any subdir 11:49:56 then use this script 2 start it: 11:49:58 strange thing was, that emergeny user password was not encrypted, as it should have been 11:50:29 $ cat start 11:50:29 #! /bin/sh 11:50:29 reldir=`dirname $0` 11:50:29 export INSTANCE_HOME=`cd $reldir; pwd` 11:50:29 export SOFTWARE_HOME=$INSTANCE_HOME/lib/python 11:50:32 export LC_ALL=hu_HU 11:50:34 exec ./bin/python \ 11:50:37 $INSTANCE_HOME/z2.py \ 11:50:40 -P 6000 -D -p '' "$@" 11:51:11 this way u can easily have independent zope installs listening on different ports 11:51:34 've put that down, 'll try it 11:51:46 guess i need to study the zope docs too :) 11:51:51 and u can easily install products just by extracting the in2 the Products dir 11:52:05 no, u shouldnt ;) 11:52:32 if u only wanna use a wiki, its not necessarry 2 learn zope 2 much 11:52:55 i even don't know how to start the wiki 11:52:55 just dl a non-src tar.gz extarct & enjoy 11:53:05 well, adding product wiki, i read 11:53:07 btw -P 6000 is the base port 11:53:20 but then, no idea 11:53:22 so u can access zope on 6080 in this case via http 11:53:28 & 6021 via ftp 11:54:27 such a pkg also contains the proper version of python 11:55:03 so it wont mix up w the globally installed python version & also doesnt depend on it 12:00:21 * mur returns 12:10:03 --- nick: toothcare -> PhoodPhrenzy 12:34:51 --- quit: FML ("brb") 12:47:35 --- join: FML (~FML@pD9E4E897.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 13:04:43 --- join: infot3ch (drwxr-xr-x@infot3ch.sponsor.freenode) joined #forth 13:04:50 --- part: infot3ch left #forth 13:35:48 --- quit: wossname ("[][][]]][[[]][][][") 14:26:17 --- join: ASau (~asau@158.250.48.197) joined #forth 14:26:35 Good night! 14:27:02 good night 14:27:44 How does life go? 14:27:58 it goes on normal tempo 14:28:10 I was too busy to track news... 14:28:10 night time it goes much faster 14:28:40 --- quit: Herkamire ("leaving") 14:28:46 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 14:29:13 Hmm... 14:30:06 btu its nicer 14:30:13 * mur went to sleep last night 5 am 14:30:20 and got up 4 pm 14:30:32 Bad thing. 14:30:56 yes but nothign happens day time in irc 14:31:15 I prefer sleepless night in that case. 14:32:33 I'd rather liked to find a party at much earlier time, 14:32:38 than at 2am. 14:33:38 I'm sitting here so lately because I've written a report today. 14:34:48 "this is mistake, you should correct you experiment, in theory it doesn't exist" :))) 14:35:37 That's like my theoretical estimations are. :) 14:36:37 mur, do you know any TCP/IP stack in Forth? 14:38:37 no 14:38:43 * mur donest know forth really at all 14:39:10 :) 14:39:14 And what do you want from this channel? 14:39:53 What OS do you use? 14:40:07 I can share an idea. :) 14:43:42 * mur has been on most weird channels also 14:44:05 i was on jyväskylä university student village channel even i have not visited jyväskylä ever :D 14:44:12 i have coded some forth 14:44:57 May I ask to write in plain latin. 14:45:12 ä = auml 14:45:21 can be replaced with a 14:45:47 well, in my CP it is "f"-cyrillic. 14:46:32 oh, usually it appears as D cyrillic 14:46:34 It is too late. So, my idea in short (just as fresh as 5 min0). 14:47:35 If you are in M$ Win, you have practically no batch command language, compared to UNIX shell. 14:48:18 If you want a Forth batch facility, you can do it this way. 14:49:23 JOB: ( here starts cmd. line vars descriptions, ext. cmds calls and pipings) GO! 14:50:04 Your commands can be much more powerful as compared to usual shells. 14:50:29 hmm 14:50:39 JOB: (get domain) GO! 14:50:45 facinating line graphically 14:50:49 And you have little complications, that can be solved 3 ways: 14:50:52 * mur thinks visually everything 14:51:10 1) using functional keys shortcuts; 14:51:41 2) writing specialized one-command-literally shell; 14:51:50 3) "third way" 14:52:02 14:52:24 No: JOB: "domain" "get" GO! 14:52:42 hehe 14:52:44 something like this. 14:52:49 that is even more facinating graphically 14:52:50 i agree 14:53:02 No: JOB: "domain" "get" GO! 14:53:22 You can use very complex string processing, just in Forth. 14:53:27 this. JOB: "domain" "get" GO! 14:53:40 hmm 14:53:48 * mur could actaully use that string on one page! 14:53:50 it is such good 14:54:14 Lodsb: JOB: "Music" "download" GO! 14:54:21 If you want, you may implement it in your system. 14:54:48 woudl you mind if i used that kind of strings in topics? 14:55:14 ? 14:55:22 on webpage (non -commecial) 14:55:37 Moo: JOB: "Category" "Item" GO! 14:55:46 Moo: JOB: "Category" "Item" "subitem" GO! 14:55:54 on WEbpages title's 14:56:12 You may use it. 14:56:54 Well. I fall sleep. 14:56:57 Buy! 14:57:04 --- quit: ASau ("Toffee IRC client for DOS v1.0/b535") 15:24:08 hi everybody (a brief request, then i have to go) 15:24:35 if anybody sees I440r, can you please tell him to e-mail me at stephenma at telus dot net 15:25:03 i want to get started on isforth's documentation 15:25:08 thanks 15:25:27 * sma goes away 15:45:50 --- quit: PhoodPhrenzy (forward.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:45:50 --- quit: Soap` (forward.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:45:50 --- quit: skylan (forward.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:45:50 --- quit: iangreen (forward.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:46:14 --- join: PhoodPhrenzy (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba4e5e.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth 15:46:14 --- join: Soap` (~flop@202-0-42-22.cable.paradise.net.nz) joined #forth 15:46:14 --- join: skylan (sjh@207.164.213.86) joined #forth 15:46:14 --- join: iangreen (ian@inpuj.net) joined #forth 15:58:53 --- part: FML left #forth 16:00:42 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@ip68-14-9-133.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 16:02:12 --- quit: PhoodPhrenzy (Remote closed the connection) 16:02:41 --- join: PhoodPhrenzy (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba4e5e.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth 16:05:10 --- quit: PhoodPhrenzy (Remote closed the connection) 16:06:04 --- join: PhoodPhrenzy (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba4e5e.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth 16:07:52 --- quit: PhoodPhrenzy (Remote closed the connection) 16:08:05 --- join: PhoodPhrenzy (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba4e5e.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth 16:16:34 :night well sleep ; 16:16:53 night 16:16:55 :) 16:27:36 --- quit: PhoodPhrenzy (Remote closed the connection) 16:28:08 --- join: PhoodPhrenzy (~Speuler@mnch-d9ba4e5e.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth 16:28:46 --- part: Klaw` left #forth 16:29:16 --- quit: mur ("Hi, I'm a quit message virus. Please replace your old line with this line and help me take over IRC. NOW WITH XMAS EXTRA FEAT) 17:02:27 --- nick: PhoodPhrenzy -> Speuler 17:37:30 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@65.191.88.177) joined #forth 17:45:17 Hey proteusguy. 18:09:49 howdy - how's te coding coming along? 18:10:08 Quite OK. 18:10:17 But the design part is worse ;) 18:10:48 Well that's kinda an important part - if not done right makes a lot of coding useless. 18:11:16 I know, hehe. 18:11:31 That's why I feel uncomfortable. 18:11:44 So what's the problem? 18:12:05 I'm trying to write a self-hosting Forth, but I don't know where to start, really. 18:12:33 yeah - chicken and egg problem. Have you looked at FCode stuff before? 18:14:27 Nope. Tell me more. 18:16:13 FCode is an encoding of forth instructions used in the system bios for the Sun boxes (and I think others). 18:17:51 http://docs.sun.com/db/doc/806-1379-10 18:18:34 This won't solve your boot up issues but might give you some design ideas. 18:19:00 Okay, thanks. 18:25:00 OpenFirmware uses FCode doesn't it? 18:25:26 yes 18:27:20 My interest in it is that it gives a good superset of what's necessary for a strong forth system that could be bootstrapped from FCode encoded instructions by a very simple interpreter. 18:28:53 That could load up an encoded system and build itself into an active complete forthos. 18:29:59 So the idea is to compile an operational system into the FCode to be bootstrapped later. This should make porting to new cpus pretty quick. 18:36:49 robert: did i ever send you metastic ? 18:37:00 I don't think so. What is it? 18:37:15 metacompiler 18:37:46 How does it solve the chicken and egg problem? 18:38:09 cause both chicken and egg exist already 18:39:02 "selfhosting" mean "standalone" or "self-compiling" ? 18:39:16 what's metastic? 18:39:45 ..sounds like cancer gone nuts... 18:40:19 a metacompiler, able to compile its own source with no add-on-code. just the kernel required 18:40:32 pointer? 18:40:32 kernel compiles kernel source 18:40:38 none 18:40:50 so how do I learn about it? 18:40:51 can put it on forthfreak.net 18:41:01 this something you wrote? 18:41:06 10-4 18:41:21 cool - all x86 asm? 18:41:26 nope. 18:41:32 most is forth 18:41:46 for the rest, it is mostly "virtual asm" 18:41:56 and the remainder is asm 18:42:39 ok. would be interested in checking it out. What platforms have you bootstrapped it on? 18:42:49 started on h8/338 18:42:57 ported to h8/304s 18:42:59 ported to h8/304x 18:43:02 than x86 18:43:05 then 18:43:16 x86 is best supported version now 18:44:18 msdos 18:44:48 cause kernel has, when compiling for x86, file i/o 18:45:02 to write the new generated kernel 18:45:50 ever bothered trying to port those in21 calls to linux calls? 18:46:08 not seriously 18:46:44 when it had served its purpose, i sort'f forgot about it 18:47:07 what purpose is that? :-) You move onto something else? 18:47:16 was running as stand-alone forth on the h8 controllers 18:47:41 as development environment, and or firmware of misc. devices 18:47:44 for 18:48:47 also used it for experiments 18:48:51 x86 18:49:22 was the only metacompiler i wrote which had that ability in the kernel 18:49:32 sounds pretty useful. I notice that forthfreak.net seems to be in german. 18:50:12 there are no pages, just file download right now. server is in germany, yes 18:50:53 so is there a link I should click? 18:50:56 thinking about setting up a forth wiki 18:51:28 not yet, because metastic is not on forthfreaks.net now 18:51:35 have to copy it first 18:51:45 I like the concept of wikis but, frankly, I've yet to find one that was useful. They seem to quickly lose interest. 18:52:05 about anything is better than just a file download site 18:52:14 true 18:52:25 and i don't want to manage that site all alone 18:52:44 so a wiki seems to me the way to go 18:52:55 well I hope its successful for you. 18:53:15 time will tell 18:54:54 i'm useless at web design, or php scripting :) 18:55:41 forth-cgi would do 18:55:52 certainly 18:56:32 started with that, but only causing apache to fail 18:56:51 "internal error" 18:59:40 bluddy compaq tells me my ipaq needs to be send in for service 18:59:50 only got it 2 or 3 weeks 19:00:51