00:00:00 --- log: started forth/02.12.17
00:44:49 --- join: Radek (~radek@ilja.moraviapress.cz) joined #forth
00:56:26 --- quit: Radek ("Client Exiting")
00:56:27 --- join: Radek (~radek@ilja.moraviapress.cz) joined #forth
01:01:35 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth
01:02:59 <Serg_Penguin> -> Radek u'r Forth experience >
01:03:08 <Serg_Penguin> my - logic games, utils
01:04:00 <Serg_Penguin> and some men here wrote their own Forths :
01:04:20 <Serg_Penguin> i440r - very good one 4 linux
01:04:29 <Radek> Haven't much forth experience.  I know basic and sometimes play with QuartusForth
01:05:18 <Serg_Penguin> Robert - wrote less kool self-boot forth an now plans kinda like yet another Forth OS
01:05:55 <Serg_Penguin> platform, OS ?
01:06:10 <Serg_Penguin> me - PC, windoze, linux
01:06:14 <Radek> QF runs on Palm
01:06:36 <Serg_Penguin> do u know linux or bsd ?
01:06:47 <Radek> Ah.. I administer a couple of Linux routers and servers
01:06:53 <Serg_Penguin> ok
01:07:22 <Serg_Penguin> so look at some *nix forth
01:07:48 <Serg_Penguin> linux i s_desktop_ system, and linux router is utterly lame
01:07:56 <Serg_Penguin> use BSD 4 this
01:08:34 <Serg_Penguin> here in RU linux was kraked so many times
01:08:34 <Radek> When I was looking yesterday for some forth to "embed" in my documents a try a couple of them.  Only gforth works as I want.
01:09:14 <Serg_Penguin> gforth is sCREEPt slow and overbloated
01:09:33 <Radek> I think about BSD many times, but still haven't found time to try it.  Now I use linux everywhere.
01:10:48 <Serg_Penguin> why try - just use
01:11:14 <Radek> When I'm leraning some thing, I wrote a "Book" about it.  In book I want some examples.  I wrote these as a sesion files which when run produces session.  This is transformed to xml and included to book.
01:11:54 <Serg_Penguin> it's all UNIX, diff may be in some utils only
01:11:59 <Serg_Penguin> like ipchains
01:12:21 <Serg_Penguin> man(1) is all the same :)
01:12:33 <Radek> Which BSD distro will be better for me to use in router?
01:13:09 <Serg_Penguin> here in RU folks use Open- and Net-
01:13:50 <Serg_Penguin> Net- is no-dev-tools (deliberately), not self/hosting, so u'll needOpen- too
01:13:54 <Radek> ... OpenBSD, I know the nice picture.  "No remote hole for ??? years in default instalation"
01:15:07 <Serg_Penguin> Net- is more conservative(less bugs) and security-focused
01:15:11 <Radek> Do you have experience with Linux.  I'm using Debian and fell litle safer than RH and Suse folks.
01:15:40 <Serg_Penguin> RH mega suxx in meaning of holes, Suse - not used
01:15:51 <Serg_Penguin> i use RH coz have no link at home
01:16:25 <Serg_Penguin> they put 1) damn old bin's w/ long known holez
01:16:37 <Serg_Penguin> 2) hot new soft w/ lotsa bugz
01:16:54 <Radek> My first was Slackware.  But befor real use I come to Debian and stand here because of Debian.
01:17:21 <Serg_Penguin> i tryed Zipslack - continous kernel paniks
01:17:37 <Serg_Penguin> hardw ok, other Linuxes ok
01:18:03 <Radek> I thing your negative linux feelings come from RH.
01:19:06 <Serg_Penguin> why negative ? BSD is more secure coz of closed dev team an being more conservative
01:19:28 <Serg_Penguin> but linux is more innovative and user-friendly
01:19:37 <Serg_Penguin> just different _purpose_
01:20:09 <Serg_Penguin> like family wan is no "worse" than F1 bolide or army truck
01:20:26 <Radek> Hmm.  Debian distro is going mor toward stability and security than other linuxes.
01:20:50 <Serg_Penguin> good
01:20:57 <Radek> Does BSD have some nice system of distributing security patches.
01:21:07 <Serg_Penguin> dunno know
01:21:25 <Serg_Penguin> never used unix in security-important install
01:22:01 <Serg_Penguin> read newbie stuff from #freebsd topic
01:22:12 <Serg_Penguin> i have to do it too
01:22:12 <Radek> you know, when you have to care about a couple of machines, its real pain to go from one to the other.
01:22:50 <Radek> ?? what you use in security-important install?
01:24:16 <Serg_Penguin> w2k :((( coz 1) forced to do so 2) have little time 4 admin 3) its behind provider's firewall so it's half-sec-important
01:24:43 <Radek> I was waiting for BSD to come into Debian family of OSes :(
01:25:17 <Radek> I do not use Win systems.  THe last good (to some point) was WinNT3.51.
01:25:44 <Serg_Penguin> :)
01:26:03 <Serg_Penguin> XP is approaching RH's stability :)
01:26:28 <Radek> :).  It's compliment to RH or XP?
01:26:44 * Serg_Penguin reboots w2k gateway by sheduler
01:27:06 <Serg_Penguin> it's insult to both
01:27:25 <Radek> huh: "Serg_Penguin reboots w2k gateway by sheduler" what's this?
01:28:06 <Serg_Penguin> it's being rebooted every night by rule in sheduler
01:28:24 <Serg_Penguin> our little company gateway
01:28:54 <Serg_Penguin> or else it goes off rails after week or two
01:29:16 <Radek> :) oh safe way.  Thanks God I do not have to reboot my machines.  Just matter of habit.
01:29:50 <Radek> I know.  Thinks can go wrong on any systems.  But some go wrong too often.
01:30:13 <Serg_Penguin> if u'r machines stand a year w/o reboot, they may stand century w/ it
01:30:59 <Serg_Penguin> it's old habit of Fido men - to reboot unattended box this way
01:31:49 <Serg_Penguin> even power-cycle, would modem hang :(
01:33:03 <Radek> Do you know, why I see ChanServ only in #Forth ?
01:33:15 <Serg_Penguin> dunno know
01:33:45 <Serg_Penguin> as admins 
01:33:47 <Serg_Penguin> ask
01:35:23 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
01:35:47 --- join: proteusguy (~username@65.191.88.177) joined #forth
01:37:41 <Radek> ... I found it.  Must instruct ChanServ to guard that channel
01:51:14 --- quit: Serg_Penguin ()
02:46:50 --- join: dunno (~jhrjhmjh@pD950FE5F.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth
02:48:02 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth
02:57:30 --- join: dunno_ (~jhrjhmjh@p50805381.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth
02:59:04 <fridge> blergh
02:59:14 <fridge> there are holes in all distributions/OS
02:59:40 <fridge> just get on advisories lists and patch methodically, regardless of OS
03:00:06 <Serg_Penguin> but some OS'es are one whistling hole
03:00:23 --- join: systems (~systems@62.12.124.214) joined #forth
03:01:24 <Radek> I do not want argue, but how easy is keep system up to date.  In my boxes I just type
03:01:30 <Radek> apt-get update; apt-get upgrade
03:02:16 <fridge> yeah, debian is good like that
03:02:21 <fridge> I run debian on my ibook
03:04:01 <Radek> yes, I run Debian everywhere.  But how other systems resolve this task.  In those times it's a absolutely must.  Other system just must have a way to do such updates.
03:05:43 <Radek> I have install yforth,pforth,kforth,pfe and gforth.  Which of these you recomed me to use?
03:06:13 <fridge> I've been using pfe
03:06:25 <fridge> but used gforth & pforth
03:06:39 <fridge> too, it doesn't really matter for what I'm doing
03:06:42 <systems> which of these have more serious developers/organization behind it ?
03:08:00 <Radek> I have small examples in form of$ cat dict-docol.ses
03:08:00 <Radek> # $Id: dict-docol.ses,v 1.1 2002/12/16 22:15:10 radek Exp $
03:08:00 <Radek> echo '# $Id: dict-docol.ses,v 1.1 2002/12/16 22:15:10 radek Exp $'
03:08:00 <Radek> gforth
03:08:00 <Radek> : double dup 2 + ;
03:08:01 <Radek> 2 double .
03:08:03 <Radek> bye 
03:09:29 <Radek> but when running with pfe it just SIGSEGV.  You can try
03:09:31 <Radek> $ echo "bye"|pfe
03:09:31 <Radek> Neoprávnìný pøístup do pamìti (SIGSEGV)
03:11:34 --- part: systems left #forth
03:11:54 --- quit: dunno (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
03:14:43 --- quit: Serg_Penguin ()
03:15:53 * Radek is away: Lunch time
03:26:43 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth
03:29:08 --- nick: dunno_ -> dunno
03:42:47 * Radek is away: Gone
03:42:53 <Radek> ok
03:50:00 <dunno> radek: gforth is build on bigforth(win-gui-widgets). a fat doc might be a starter plus for you? -> try gforth + pfe(pfe-doc.deb)
03:53:10 <dunno> radek: i do like enth, it's 200k on a fd, standalone os, written in nasm and might get rewritten in fasm(quite interesting, at least for me)
03:54:02 <Radek> I did not read through all docs in pfe-doc.deb.  There is some switch description in man, but doesn't help.  Still SIGSEGV.
03:54:49 <Radek> I'm not looking for production forth.  What I need is some functional forth to use in small examples inherited in book.
03:55:37 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
03:55:58 <fridge> just keep trying different forths until you find ones that don't?
03:56:06 <Radek> as I wrote before.  I describe session an this is pushed through pipe to forth.  the output is tagged with my script and the final output in xml imported into book in DocBook
03:57:01 <Radek> Yes I have one.  It seems that gforth works this way.  But I'm curious that it's only one from all forths I was trying.
03:59:32 <dunno> you can try bigforth on unix as well
04:00:21 <dunno> http://www.jwdt.com/~paysan/bigforth.html#DOWNLOAD
04:01:19 <Radek> ok, its now on my todo list
04:01:24 <Radek> thanks
04:04:49 <dunno> if you like, tell us how you think about it then...
04:05:04 <Radek> ok
04:06:29 <dunno> btw there's another forth on the channel topic, somebody tried it in here ???
04:09:30 <dunno> radek: if you are on a production box, afraid to make a mess(you can do that easy w/ forths), then you might try 4th, it has some security measurements implemented
04:12:23 <dunno> radek: http://www.xs4all.nl/~thebeez/4tH/foldtree.html, purists would say it's crippled, but anyway the tut included is helpful for beginners
04:14:05 <Radek> ok, its now on my todo list to.
04:38:57 --- quit: lament ("mental mantle")
05:08:47 <onetom_> hi
05:09:27 <onetom_> Radek: what would u like 2 embed a 4th into?
05:11:36 <Radek> it's not a embeding in traditional way.  It's just "embeding" running examples into documentation.  Not to write code code code and doesn't mention there is an error in this code.  Just write as I say session script which when running and it's output is processed with taging script is directly includable into docbook document.
05:13:42 <Radek> If there is some simple test then ther is no way to erroer sneak arround to document.
05:32:25 <onetom_> .... :/
05:32:55 <onetom_> cant understand really atm, but i dont have time momentarily
05:33:18 <onetom_> but ipromise, we will get back 2 this topic later
05:33:44 <Robert> 10:11 < Serg_Penguin> Robert - wrote less kool self-boot forth an now plans kinda like yet another Forth OS
05:33:48 <Robert> Hehe.
05:33:54 <Robert> That's as true as it gets ;)
05:33:57 <onetom_> btw, i prefer TILE forth personally. its easy 2 embed into other programs
05:34:21 <Robert> But please, also mention my copy of onetom_'s Forth in 100% Forth ;)
05:35:19 <onetom_> but if u would like 2 c some documents w 4th code embedded & still understandable by 4th
05:35:35 <onetom_> have a look @ coldforth sources
05:35:47 <onetom_> or niel bawd ugly pages
05:36:53 <onetom_> hmmm... the later is  unaccessible unfortunately :/
05:36:59 <onetom_> Radek: read back ;)
05:37:16 <Radek> onetom_: no, I'm working on a little bit different thing. :)
05:38:31 <Radek> You know, I wrote some documents in DocBook (XML version).  It's the right way to write documents if you want get a html (few forms), ps, pdf and ma be txt (I'm not using txt now).
05:39:18 <Radek> I created a system.  Few scripts and rules.  Every little example is described in a session files which is in pricipe valid shell script.
05:40:09 --- part: Speuler left #forth
05:40:27 <Radek> it just emit a rcs/cvs info, and run nice interpreter.  The rest of script is feeded to that interpreter, output catched, processed, xml tagged and xml file created.
05:40:29 <Radek> In document I only wrote
05:41:00 <Radek> just see this example <screen>&session:example-name;</screen>
05:41:12 --- join: Speuler (~l@mnch-d9ba427a.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth
05:42:04 <Radek> I develop it on Ruby, but very early made language independent.  Only the interpretter must be cappable of rading from stdin a give some nice output.
05:48:33 --- part: Speuler left #forth
06:10:21 --- join: Speuler (~l@mnch-d9ba427a.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth
06:23:01 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@wsip68-15-54-54.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth
06:35:18 --- join: tathi (~josh@wsip68-15-54-54.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth
07:41:00 --- join: gTs2 (gTs2@patr530-a217.otenet.gr) joined #forth
07:41:12 --- quit: gTs2 (Remote closed the connection)
08:11:55 --- join: Herkamir1 (~jason@wsip68-15-54-54.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth
08:11:55 --- quit: Herkamire (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
08:12:08 --- join: tathi_ (~josh@wsip68-15-54-54.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth
08:17:49 <Robert> Hi there, Herkamir1 and tathi_.
08:18:23 <onetom_> Radek: say hi 2 collegue netsplit 2 ;)
08:20:39 --- quit: tathi (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
08:27:08 <Herkamir1> ooo :) internet is back up :) hi  Robert, onetom_ 
08:27:37 <onetom_> hi
08:28:07 <Radek> hi
08:28:19 <Radek> Bye, I'm running home.
08:28:25 <onetom_> by
08:29:15 --- nick: Radek -> Radek_AW
08:34:21 --- nick: tathi_ -> tathi
08:46:39 --- quit: tathi (forward.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
08:46:40 --- quit: skylan (forward.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
08:48:56 --- join: tathi (~josh@wsip68-15-54-54.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth
08:53:49 --- join: skylan (sjh@207.164.213.78) joined #forth
09:02:38 --- quit: tathi (""internet too flaky ATM..."")
09:17:40 --- join: rafe (~rafe@www.scinq.org) joined #forth
09:36:31 <Robert> Hello rafe
09:38:25 <rafe> hello
09:42:52 <rafe> OK, I'm curious & I'm not decalring Jihad: Why do you all like forth?
09:43:58 <rafe> Sort of a portable assembly?
09:48:21 <rafe> Compact notation?
09:48:51 <rafe> You're related to C.L. Moore?
09:53:25 <rafe> mmm... lunch break must happen at different times in other parts of the world... I'll go check out some web sites
10:00:39 --- quit: proteusguy ("Client Exiting")
10:30:49 <rafe> Continues monologue for a very short bit: OK, minimalist philosophy in coding & machine usage is *very* appealing.
10:31:57 <rafe> 100 times smaller than c ?! I'll have to take it on a test drive.
10:33:24 <rafe> let's see if it's also faster than c. Please be.
10:34:00 <rafe> You're quite a persuasive group :) end monologue
10:42:12 <Herkamir1> hehe :)
10:42:55 <Herkamir1> I like forth because it is small and simple and I can write my own.
10:43:59 <Herkamir1> and because I am usually pleasantly suprised at how quickly I can code things, and how small and sensible my code is
10:44:59 <Herkamir1> I spend my time coding or learning protocols and how the machine actually, rather than trying to grok APIs
10:45:49 <rafe> Yea, I'm a bit of a assembly language hacker so... I'm the choir on those points
10:46:32 <rafe> here's a question: how long did it take you to learn the forth mind set?
10:47:09 <rafe> I mean I'm comming from a c-type background
10:47:46 <Robert> Heh.
10:48:19 <Robert> I also like Forth for its simplicity - while being powerful.
10:49:13 <Robert> I can't say I'm an expert on Forth yet, but I noticed it was suprisingly easy to lern.
10:49:18 <Robert> learn*
10:49:56 <rafe> very important thx
10:50:44 <rafe> now... is possible easy to provide the users with their point & grunt GUI's in forth?
10:51:06 <rafe> s/possible//
10:51:10 <Robert> You mean, writing a GUI in Forth?
10:51:19 <rafe> yup
10:51:24 <Robert> That should be no problem.
10:51:41 <rafe> very good!
10:51:50 <Robert> And I'd say thing that are important in GUI programming - callback functions and similar, are easier to play with in Forth than in e.g. C.
10:51:56 <Robert> things
10:52:29 <Herkamir1> rafe: forth is very very easy to get started with.
10:52:46 <rafe> 'cause if i can't sell it to the users it won't get done
10:52:54 <Robert> "An hour to learn - a lifetime to master" ;)
10:52:55 <Herkamir1> rafe: learning new mindset takes longer
10:53:02 <Robert> Heh.
10:53:15 <Herkamir1> but the mindset is where most of the value is
10:53:26 <rafe> 'k
10:53:30 <Robert> SELLING Forth, there you have a problem ;) The 'market' doesn't seem to love Forth very much, although I guess you can make some money with it.
10:53:39 <Robert> I have no idea, so I shouldn't even be speaking.
10:53:49 <rafe> NOT selling forth... selling the app
10:54:06 <dunno> for gui prg's see bigforth it has tkwidgets-like features
10:54:35 <rafe> user's don't care about how it works
10:54:55 <dunno> http://www.jwdt.com/~paysan/bigforth.html
10:55:04 <Robert> rafe: But if "Java" sounds sexier than "Forth", who cares about such details as functionality? :)
10:55:49 <rafe> true but now you're talking middle management
10:56:19 <Robert> What kind of application do you have in mind?
10:56:42 <Robert> I mean, nobody will ever know that your new talking doll us using Forth, but they will notice if you replace windows.
10:56:51 <rafe> I've got some bioinformatics stuff brewing
10:57:03 --- quit: Herkamir1 ("being busy is annoying")
10:57:50 <rafe> True enuf on the windows stuff... but if it looks close enuf then tey won't care
10:58:03 <Robert> Nope.
10:58:51 <Robert> But if you try to take advantage of some features of Forth - like easy and fast "scipting", they'll call you a freak and go back to Microsoft.
10:59:08 * Robert is in a ranting mode today - don't forget that ;)
10:59:10 <rafe> HA!
10:59:17 <Robert> Mood, that is.
10:59:49 <Robert> Well.. I talk too much about things I don't know very much about.
10:59:58 <Robert> I should try to do a larger project in Forth.
11:00:08 <Robert> Just not sure what.
11:00:28 <Robert> I'm thinking about a system - but I can't decide if I should concentrate on PC or embedded devices.
11:00:41 <rafe> I'll try rewriting some alignment algos in forth. That will be my experiment.
11:01:02 <Robert> "Alignment algorithms" - what is that?
11:01:56 <rafe> Take two proteins (or DNA) and try & see how close or distant they are evolution wise
11:02:24 <rafe> very basic stuff but VERY compute intensive
11:02:36 <rafe> basic in my field that is
11:02:48 <Robert> Oh, neat.
11:02:55 <Robert> I don't know much about genetics :-/
11:03:20 <Robert> I'll go out for a while now, see you later.
11:03:28 <rafe> ta
11:04:05 --- join: tathi (~josh@wsip68-15-54-54.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth
11:17:27 --- join: gTs2 (gTs2@212.205.244.151) joined #forth
11:18:14 <gTs2> DUP
11:21:45 <gTs2> DROP
11:21:45 --- quit: gTs2 (Client Quit)
11:45:21 --- join: Stepan (~stepan@pD951D0D7.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth
11:53:51 --- quit: tathi (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
11:54:36 * Robert is back.
12:10:21 --- quit: Stepan ("Client Exiting")
12:25:50 <rafe> time for another question: I'm starting to play with bigforth & some web tutes.
12:26:24 <rafe> never mind... sorry for clutter
12:28:22 <Robert> Hey there.
12:28:43 <Robert> Have fun :)
12:28:50 <rafe> I am
12:29:05 <rafe> just got some newbie questions that the tutes seem to handle
12:48:45 <iangreen> I noticed some manual on forth.com that was really nice, the forth programmers handbook or something like that
12:48:54 <iangreen> wish i had read that when i was learning how forth works
12:48:57 <iangreen> need to go back and read it
12:49:07 <iangreen> im a 4th newbie 2
12:51:12 <Robert> :)
12:51:23 * Robert is playing with a little contest.
12:51:32 <Robert> Best 512-byte programming environment for PC.
12:52:29 <dunno> :-) vb, what else
12:52:51 <Robert> Forth! :)
12:54:37 <iangreen> perfect one for forth
12:54:39 <iangreen> hehe
12:55:46 <Robert> Yes.
12:55:57 <dunno> what's the record of minimum sized selfreproducing(incl. src) code?
12:57:27 <dunno> Robert: you know it? should be under 500 byte
12:57:52 <Robert> No idea.
12:59:35 <dunno> they do prized contests about that
13:01:54 <Robert> ;)
13:18:18 <dunno> if they can't haunt them, they try to fish the virers ... ;-)
14:02:23 --- join: gTs2 (~gTs2@patr530-a126.otenet.gr) joined #forth
14:03:19 --- quit: gTs2 (Client Quit)
14:03:22 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@65.191.88.177) joined #forth
14:05:44 <rafe> on my slow trek up the learning curve I've noticed one very important detail...
14:06:00 <Robert> Yes?
14:06:08 <rafe> there are as many forths out there as there are linux flavors
14:06:19 <rafe> any favorites?
14:06:40 * Robert points at the topic.
14:06:56 <Robert> IsForth is nice.
14:07:04 <rafe> d0h
14:10:49 <rafe> yea I just when to the color forth site... read newbie read... brain fried trying to rpn
14:12:08 <Robert> Hm?
14:12:16 <Robert> :)
14:12:35 <rafe> sorry RPN notation is a bit slow for me at first. I'll learn
14:12:43 <Robert> Yup.
14:12:47 <rafe> Hey! his source is easy to read too
14:13:03 <rafe> there goes one myth
14:13:45 <Robert> : FORTH  NEWBIE SCREW   NEWBIE FRY  ;
14:14:57 <rafe> ugh! or is it ugh@
14:16:00 <onetom_> rafe: hey, rpn is easy if u break it up in2 managable pieces
14:16:50 <rafe> 'k
14:17:44 <onetom_> its just the native way u do things in life
14:17:53 <Robert> Yes.
14:17:54 <rafe> onetome_: it's not hard but... it's taking a bit to relearn
14:17:57 <Robert> COOKIE EAT
14:18:07 <Robert> SCHOOL GO
14:18:09 <Robert> ;)
14:18:12 <onetom_> u do whatever u have 2 do b4 accomplishing any task
14:18:15 <onetom_> thats it
14:18:52 <onetom_> u have 2 reference the thing u r operating on b4 u can start the operation
14:19:20 <rafe> all true but (no dis) it IS different
14:19:33 <onetom_> tho u plan the operations backwards, u realize them in forward
14:19:48 <onetom_> "we r all different!" ;)
14:20:04 <rafe> now don't go all zen on me
14:20:14 <rafe> :)
14:21:04 <rafe> grab COOKIE then EAT COOOKIE is what I have to unlearn
14:21:17 <rafe> COOKIE EAT is much more efficient
14:22:25 <rafe> not that I'm hell bent against syntatic sugar
14:22:56 <Robert> COOKIE GRAB EAT
14:23:28 <rafe> it's jus that I'm open to the new way of makinging the proggies more efficient
14:23:39 <Robert> :)
14:23:44 <rafe> both in codeer time & code time
14:23:54 <rafe> s/ee/e/
14:25:35 --- join: neobrat (~~jeff_tkd@h-64-105-21-62.DNVTCO56.covad.net) joined #forth
14:25:47 <neobrat> 'lo all
14:26:27 <Robert> Hi.
14:27:35 <neobrat> anything exciting been happening of late?
14:27:42 <neobrat> oh, and Merry XMAS :)
14:27:52 <Robert> We've been introducing people to Forth!
14:27:57 <Robert> Thanks, but you're early ;)
14:28:19 <Speuler> g'd morning
14:28:45 <neobrat> it was in case im not here on xmas day :)
14:28:48 <Robert> Hi Speuler.
14:28:50 <Robert> Hehe.
14:28:54 <Robert> It's one week left!
14:29:03 <Robert> MmmMmm.. and 3 school days.
14:29:43 * Speuler considers spending christmas in a freak pub
14:29:43 <neobrat> what i wouldnt give to be in school and get a break once in a while
14:30:12 * Robert would give anything to keep things as they are.
14:30:41 <Speuler> Robert: you can keep things as they are only by keeping what you have
14:30:54 <Speuler> but not by giving anything 
14:31:14 <Speuler> as soon you given anything, things are not as they were anymore
14:31:21 <Speuler> technically spoken :)
14:31:42 <neobrat> so no more chrsitmas?
14:31:54 <Speuler> what's christmas good for ?
14:31:58 <neobrat> no more giving?
14:32:15 <neobrat> economic growth :)
14:32:58 <Speuler> oh right.
14:33:32 <Speuler> killing trees
14:33:35 <Speuler> and turkeys
14:33:47 <neobrat> or pigs as the case may be
14:33:57 <Speuler> people, putting tree cadavers in their homes
14:34:22 <neobrat> that's nothing... the real purpose of any holiday...
14:34:24 <Speuler> then they decorate the tree corpses
14:34:33 <Speuler> let them get dry
14:34:38 <neobrat> ...giving my wife an excuse to spends tons of money on decorating my entire house for 1 day
14:34:43 <Speuler> and, later, incinerate them
14:34:49 <Speuler> weirdos
14:35:02 <Speuler> barbarians
14:36:06 <Speuler> heathens !
14:37:53 <Robert> Speuler: Well...stopping time would be the easiest option.
14:38:05 <Robert> Speuler: Bit technical details prevent me from doing so.
14:38:07 <Robert> But*
14:38:36 <Speuler> will time run backwards for anything beyond speed of light ?
14:39:04 <Speuler> in that case, you could not just keep things unchanged, but UNDO things :)
14:39:14 <Speuler> just hurry :)
14:40:07 <Robert> That would bring me to an imaginary time. Scary.
14:40:21 * Robert imagines imaginary time is odd.
14:40:33 <Speuler> two atoms bump into each other. "sorry" says one, "are you all right" ?
14:40:50 <Speuler> "no" says the other, "i've lost an electron".
14:41:04 <Speuler> "you're sure?"
14:41:08 <Speuler> "yes, i'm positive"
14:41:24 <rafe> ouch
14:43:21 <Robert> :)
14:47:53 <neobrat> ok, that was bad...
14:48:18 --- join: gTs2 (gTs2@patr364-a18.otenet.gr) joined #forth
14:49:31 <Robert> Time for bed.
14:49:57 <rafe> thanks & good nite
14:50:04 <Robert> [ 8 3600 * 1000 * ] LITERAL MS
14:51:44 <rafe> compiled
14:51:49 <rafe> :)
14:51:52 <gTs2> yo
14:53:21 <neobrat> howdy
14:54:18 --- quit: neobrat ()
14:54:41 --- quit: gTs2 ()
14:55:19 <Speuler> Robert: begin sleep awake until ;
14:56:24 <Speuler> begin coffee heartrate 140 u> until
14:57:15 <rafe> Program in Yoda speak I will
14:57:22 <Speuler> 3 0 do  jam toast spread  begin mouth insert  bite chew swallow 0= until loop  ;
14:57:58 <Speuler> ." burp" cr
14:59:12 <Speuler> egg boil peel ravage
15:01:38 <rafe> brain newbie explode
15:02:37 <rafe> newbie thanks extend
15:03:00 <rafe> thanks & later
15:03:08 <Speuler> rafe: i didn't expect an egg to have such an devastating effect on you
15:03:32 <rafe> ha!
15:03:41 <Speuler> more likely  "vessels clot"
15:03:56 <Speuler> veines clot
15:04:12 <rafe> arteries
15:04:25 <rafe> heart newbie explode
15:04:51 <Speuler> could it be you've mixed up "egg" and "handgrenade" ?
15:05:32 <rafe> well they're spelled the same
15:05:51 <rafe> an honest mistake
15:06:40 <rafe> cioa
15:06:46 --- quit: rafe ("Client Exiting")
15:15:06 --- join: gTs2 (~gTs2@patr364-a18.otenet.gr) joined #forth
15:15:47 --- quit: gTs2 (Client Quit)
15:43:16 --- join: gTs2 (gTs2@patr364-a18.otenet.gr) joined #forth
16:09:59 --- quit: dunno ("bye")
16:47:36 --- join: gTs42 (gTs2@patr364-a18.otenet.gr) joined #forth
16:49:07 --- quit: gTs2 (forward.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
16:49:07 --- quit: Robert (forward.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
16:49:07 --- quit: XeF4 (forward.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
16:49:07 --- quit: OrngeTide (forward.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
16:49:18 --- nick: gTs42 -> gTs2
16:49:28 --- join: Robert (~Robert@h236n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #forth
16:49:28 --- join: OrngeTide (orange@65.19.141.250) joined #forth
16:49:28 --- join: XeF4 (xef4@lowfidelity.org) joined #forth
16:49:57 --- quit: gTs2 (Remote closed the connection)
16:50:00 --- join: gTs42 (gTs2@patr364-a18.otenet.gr) joined #forth
16:50:18 --- quit: gTs42 (Remote closed the connection)
16:50:31 --- join: gTs2 (gTs2@patr364-a18.otenet.gr) joined #forth
16:50:43 --- join: lament (~lament@h24-78-145-92.vc.shawcable.net) joined #forth
16:52:55 --- join: I440r (~I440r@sdn-ap-034tnnashP0218.dialsprint.net) joined #forth
16:55:10 --- quit: gTs2 (Client Quit)
16:56:15 --- join: gTs2 (gTs2@patr530-a120.otenet.gr) joined #forth
16:58:38 --- nick: Speuler -> semtex
17:11:39 --- nick: semtex -> Speuler
17:16:56 --- quit: gTs2 ()
17:18:32 --- join: gTs2 (gTs2@patr530-a194.otenet.gr) joined #forth
17:23:34 --- quit: gTs2 ()
18:07:07 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@ip68-9-58-54.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth
18:09:18 --- quit: I440r (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
18:09:52 <Herkamire> evening forthers
18:10:51 --- join: I440r (~I440r@sdn-ap-034tnnashP0218.dialsprint.net) joined #forth
18:14:29 --- quit: XeF4 (forward.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
18:14:29 --- quit: OrngeTide (forward.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
18:14:29 --- quit: Robert (forward.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
18:15:25 --- join: Robert (~Robert@h236n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #forth
18:15:25 --- join: OrngeTide (orange@65.19.141.250) joined #forth
18:15:25 --- join: XeF4 (xef4@lowfidelity.org) joined #forth
18:48:54 <Herkamire> is it unhealthy to eat ones own foot?
18:49:28 <lament> not when it's cooked properly
18:50:06 <Herkamire> I'll try that
18:50:20 <Herkamire> I'll probably have time to cook it next time my internet cuts out
18:58:26 <lament> I don't know much about cooking meat, but you could probably bake it
19:07:51 <Herkamire> I bet it's pretty tough man, I've been playing volleyball and stuff
19:08:10 <Herkamire> perhaps it would be better stewed or cooked pot-rost style
20:28:06 <Herkamire> I worked 10 hours today
20:28:16 <Herkamire> if anybody does that 5 days a week they are crazy (or will be soon)
20:28:44 <Herkamire> I'm finally done, and it's almost time I should go to bed
21:06:08 --- quit: I440r ()
21:14:01 --- quit: Herkamire ("leaving")
21:48:39 --- quit: Speuler (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
21:57:46 --- join: Speuler (~l@mnch-d9ba49af.pool.mediaWays.net) joined #forth
22:00:15 --- join: I440r (~I440r@sdn-ap-034tnnashP0218.dialsprint.net) joined #forth
22:07:28 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth
22:11:22 <I440r> hi serg
22:11:37 <I440r> im opposed to evaluate dood, sorry
22:11:46 <I440r> i see way too much badly coded forth that uses it
22:12:09 <I440r> : blah " .... " evaluate ; is totally moronic imho
22:17:27 <I440r> i cant even understand WHY anyone needs a word like evalutate, its use totally destroys the possability of turnkeying 
22:24:13 <Serg_Penguin> heeey !!!
22:24:17 <Serg_Penguin> I440r !!
22:24:24 <Serg_Penguin> i just sent u email
22:24:36 <Serg_Penguin> but sorry, no proggie :(((
22:25:34 <Serg_Penguin> i need eval coz i wanna eval 1) args 2) strings from binary fles like game world 3) strings constructed at runtime
22:27:12 <lament> use Lisp
22:29:03 <Serg_Penguin> lisp is too far from hardware, suffers delays from GC, and wears out () keys too damn fast :)
22:31:22 <lament> hm, i thought the first two were advantages :)
22:32:51 <Serg_Penguin> i was too often shot down in virtual air combat coz of lags, i hate them
22:33:12 <Serg_Penguin> eye-candy lags not network
22:52:04 <Serg_Penguin> z
22:54:51 --- join: njd (junk@njd.paradise.net.nz) joined #forth
23:08:55 --- quit: Serg_Penguin ()
23:16:16 --- quit: njd ("xchat 1.9.6")
23:16:54 --- quit: I440r ()
23:25:38 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth
23:34:24 --- quit: Serg_Penguin ()
23:48:50 --- quit: Radek_AW ("Client Exiting")
23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/02.12.17