00:00:00 --- log: started forth/02.12.12
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03:47:34 <XeF4>  aagh, is there really no way to specify a raw octet to gnu sed?
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06:19:50 <gTs2> yoooo
06:19:52 <gTs2> mmmfff
06:19:55 <gTs2> head numb
06:20:11 <gTs2> can someone suggest something to boot my brain up
06:20:28 <gTs2> fast
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07:49:34 <tathi> hey all
07:52:15 <Robert> Hello :)
07:53:47 <tathi> Hi Robert. Been doing much (any?) forth lately?
08:20:14 <onetom> tathi: i did. look:
08:21:51 <onetom> > begin eof? while
08:21:51 <onetom> >   nextsub subpos@ >frameno seekmovie get-frame
08:21:51 <onetom> >   decode-frame sub>osd frame2jpeg write-jpg
08:21:51 <onetom> > repeat
08:22:44 <onetom> its the highest level of a program, what makes a slideshow w subtitles on each picture from a movie file
08:23:12 <tathi> onetom: cool
08:24:04 <tathi> is that part of your project to build forth into that mpeg player as a scripting language?
08:24:06 <onetom> its my proposed vision how should the "mplayer extended w a 4th" b programmed
08:24:12 <onetom> yup :)
08:24:27 <onetom> im in the dreamin phase still
08:24:50 <onetom> but im trying 2 start 2 design the stuff from bottom up
08:25:01 <tathi> I see
08:25:26 <onetom> ive also been 2 a lecture about sw architectures last day
08:25:41 <tathi> how was it?
08:27:17 * onetom would like 2 show urls, but the net is under contruction 2day in the city where i live...
08:27:36 <onetom> could u tell me the ip address of ns.sztaki.hu ?
08:28:06 <onetom> it was pretty exciting, amazing & surprising
08:28:24 <onetom> paul ?clements? from indiana held it
08:28:46 <onetom> he s workin @ CMU
08:28:48 <tathi> ns.sztaki.hu = 193.225.86.4
08:28:51 <onetom> thx
08:29:29 <onetom> cant ping that :(
08:29:54 <onetom> eeeh... stormy net...
08:30:39 <onetom> look 4 the site ....sei.cmu....?us/net/org/edu?
08:31:02 <onetom> everything should b pretty much explained there
08:35:33 <tathi> I'll look
08:35:51 <tathi> I can't ping that IP either, BTW
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08:40:57 <Stepan> is there a difference between  "CREATE foo 0 ," and "VARIABLE foo 0 foo !"
08:42:35 <tathi> functionally, no.
08:42:50 <tathi> implementation may be.
08:46:38 <tathi> onetom: well, I found some slides. Looks interesting.
08:48:17 <tathi> laters... (lunch)
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09:45:27 <Stepan> tathi: thx
09:46:17 <Robert> Guten Abend :)
09:46:44 <Stepan> hey robert :)
10:01:50 <Speuler> tach the_rob
10:02:21 <Robert> Tack* :)
10:02:30 <Robert> We only use "ch" for short "k" in "och".
10:04:59 <Speuler> the "ch", a guttural, harsh sound, with "tag" is very slangy
10:06:35 * Robert assumed that was a misspelled Swedish word. ;)
10:06:59 <Speuler> tack = thank you ?
10:07:06 <Robert> Yes.
10:07:09 <Speuler> danish Tak
10:07:37 <Robert> Tak... that's roof/ceiling in Swedish.
10:18:38 <Stepan> dav, jeg hedder Stepan
10:38:55 <Speuler> jeg taler ikke svensk
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15:56:19 <gilbertbsd> hi lament.
15:56:54 <lament> hi.
15:57:25 <gilbertbsd> I have an odd problem with youknowwhat.
15:57:46 <lament> umm... consult a doctor?
15:57:55 <gilbertbsd> haha. no its python related.
15:58:13 <gilbertbsd> actually I'll just ask in #python ...
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16:05:36 --- nick: semtex -> Speuler
16:05:49 <gilbertbsd> oy Speuler
16:06:02 <Speuler> hi gilbertbsd
16:07:08 <gilbertbsd> how are you?
16:07:19 * Speuler must test carefully whether i can still hit the keys :)
16:07:27 <Speuler> yes, seems to work
16:10:49 <Speuler> not so bad at all
16:10:59 <Speuler> after a few light-and-shadows
16:11:22 <Speuler> last two tollwood weeks
16:11:31 <Speuler> got to make use of that
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16:44:05 <galexand> herkamire hmmm
16:44:08 <galexand> i know that name
16:45:49 <Speuler> what character does this char show in your irc clients :  >µ<  ?
16:46:11 <Herkamire> Speuler: a u with a tail on the left
16:46:15 <lament> a mu
16:46:30 <Speuler> good
16:46:38 <Speuler> µc would read fine ?
16:46:50 <lament> mu-c
16:46:56 <Speuler> microcontroller
16:47:19 <Speuler> wasn't sure how other clients and locales treat this
16:47:35 <galexand> my ircII setup translates that to a regular u
16:47:40 <Herkamire> galexand: there is a herkimer or some such in US army history I think.
16:50:17 <galexand> nah
16:50:24 <galexand> i think i knew a herkamire on usenet
16:51:20 <Herkamire> twern't me
16:51:46 <galexand> no shocker there
17:15:32 <Speuler> Herkamire: rank 596 on stinkymonkey :)
17:16:58 <Speuler> killed 144, got killed 175 times
17:17:38 <Speuler> (xpilot)
17:18:10 <Herkamire> ahh, I have played xpilot :)
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18:11:45 <dunno> gilbertbsd: solved the python question?
18:12:48 <gilbertbsd> nope.
18:12:52 <gilbertbsd> I have to ask Guido.
18:13:17 <gilbertbsd> But I think he might respond with "eat flaming death lamer".
18:14:12 <dunno> why should he?
18:14:45 <gilbertbsd> I have a crippled version of python.
18:14:58 <gilbertbsd> In the none crippled version, it works fine.
18:15:17 <gilbertbsd> But the problem i am noticing has nothing to do with its being crippled and its a bit foncusing.
18:16:02 <dunno> i heard him saying python grows because of their helpful communtity
18:16:38 <dunno> eg. #twisted or #python
18:16:57 <gilbertbsd> yes the guys in #python encouraged me to eat flaming death :D
18:17:07 <gilbertbsd> OR reinstall python.
18:17:51 <dunno> it's over 20meg on m$, right?
18:18:45 <gilbertbsd> yes it is. The version i have though only uses python.exe and python22.dll
18:19:03 <gilbertbsd> and thats ~ 800k
18:19:52 <gilbertbsd> yep. python.exe = 20k and python22.dll = 828k
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18:23:11 <dunno> gilbertbsd: the guys in #python might be kids, but guido or the ml...
18:25:00 <gilbertbsd> Perhaps I should consider writing to Guido afterall.
18:25:50 <gilbertbsd> the problem is really simple. In the stripped down version of python, I run oddly enough with a really simple doubling function into silly errors.
18:26:30 <gilbertbsd> the function, lets call it function(n): might work for function(33), but not work for function(35) but works when I have function(65)!
18:28:27 <dunno> why not posting to ml?
18:28:38 <gilbertbsd> I'll do that tomorrow.
18:28:52 <gilbertbsd> it works perfectly when I have the full installation btw.
18:29:23 <gilbertbsd> I just don't understand why it breaks for some low values but does not break for higher values ...
18:30:19 <dunno> i had a very quick look at py some time ago, so...   i would tell you guts, if only i could...
18:30:40 <gilbertbsd> do you have it installed?
18:30:47 <dunno> had
18:31:00 <gilbertbsd> and you purged the beautiful language?
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18:32:23 <dunno> isn't py on woody standard minimum install? i'm almost sure
18:32:38 <gilbertbsd> nope it comes always with libraries.
18:36:34 <dunno> are you 100% sure? btw ask cliechti on #knoppix, he seemed helpful to me, and is hacking a pythonbot(=knx) at the moment
18:37:02 <gilbertbsd> do you like knoppix?
18:37:41 <dunno> oh he's gone already...
18:38:19 <dunno> for some cases it's pretty convenient helpful
18:38:57 <gilbertbsd> I am a knoppix evangelist.
18:40:17 <dunno> how come?
18:40:33 <gilbertbsd> I really like it. I try to get as many people to play with it as possible.
18:40:43 <gilbertbsd> All the 'linux is too hard to install' people.
18:42:00 <lament> but
18:42:11 <lament> is it actually good for anything other than showing off?
18:42:24 <gilbertbsd> yes you can use it for anything you want.
18:42:54 <gilbertbsd> write a paper, write a book, write the book to end all writing, write a killer app in nasm...
18:42:55 <lament> yes, but other (less specialised) distros are probably better?
18:43:25 <gilbertbsd> its strength lies in the fact that there is almost nothing to install. It is as plug and play as you can get.
18:43:38 <gilbertbsd> otherwise you can always get debian (thats what its based on).
18:44:08 <dunno> initially i looked for a linux rescue cd, knx suits well, though not all
18:44:21 <dunno> cases
18:46:53 <dunno> but main strength of course is convenience and security
18:47:12 <gilbertbsd> it doesn't come with a forth though.
18:48:25 <dunno> tell that klaus, he's still there now
18:49:39 * onetom hasnt even met knoppix b4 gil mentioned it.. :/
18:49:59 <gilbertbsd> ah I hadn't met knoppix before Boris mentioned it.
18:50:00 <gilbertbsd> ;)
18:50:07 <onetom> :D
18:51:41 <onetom> "the bird fies from branch 2 branch, the song flies from mouth 2 mouth" -- a hungarian native poem what also became a saying
18:52:02 <gilbertbsd> what does it mean? when is it used?
18:52:43 <galexand> it sounds like meme theory :)
18:53:03 <galexand> the implication that the information flow represented by the song is as real and alive as the bird
18:53:08 <onetom> it describes the distribution mechanism behind gossips (speaking technically ;)
18:53:55 <onetom> s/behind/of/
18:55:09 <onetom> but originally its just a nice metaphor about the spreading & staying alive of songs through centuries
18:55:35 <galexand> yes the memes flow much slower than neural impulses so carrying on a conversation with one requires taking a long view
18:55:57 <onetom> so knoppix also spreads from mouth 2 mouth
18:56:21 <galexand> so does spit
18:56:28 <galexand> what's knoppix?
18:56:29 <onetom> spit?
18:56:31 <gilbertbsd> ah I see now.
18:56:49 <gilbertbsd> knoppix is a complete(?) linux on a CD.
18:57:02 <onetom> what is a readonly fs ....
18:57:17 <gilbertbsd> yep. but you have access to the harddrive.
18:57:17 <onetom> and its bootable!
18:57:37 <onetom> its all loaded in2 memory, right?
18:58:17 <gilbertbsd> aaargh. I am being kicked off the mofoing computer :(
18:58:39 <gilbertbsd> see you tomorrow. Yes its loaded into memory and it uses harddisk as swap.
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19:00:05 * onetom bed !
19:00:15 <dunno> it compresses 2gb as cloop on cd, so you have in fact over 2gb progs working all the time. dynamic compression...
19:00:39 <onetom> browse the new ENTH sources & docs!
19:01:27 <dunno> exciting?
19:01:36 <onetom> http://www.ynet.com.au/sean/
19:02:07 <onetom> dunno: &short &pretty nice. mainly the colored SOURCES.HTML file ;)
19:02:13 <onetom> BUT
19:02:30 <onetom> i was also reading the conversation between
19:02:43 <onetom> sean & jeff
19:03:04 <dunno> is the source of his yforum-prg available?
19:03:06 <onetom> & the middle ive found verrryveryvery exciting
19:03:18 <onetom> and absolutely dazzeling stories..
19:03:40 <onetom> dunno: hmmm.. dunno, but gonna chkû
19:04:40 <dunno> that conversation, where is it? pointer?
19:08:21 <onetom> sec
19:09:27 <onetom> http://ultratechnology.com/enthflux.htm
19:10:57 <onetom> the interesting story was around the word "editors"
19:11:39 <onetom> &the exciting point was @ the line where i also said "aaaahaa!!"
19:12:14 <onetom> & in the next sentece i was just reading a reference 2 aha :)
19:12:37 <dunno> yes, thanks. it indeed is interesting ...
19:12:46 <onetom> & the story of aha came 2 me mind so i laughed :)
19:13:01 <onetom> dunno: just look 4 the word editors
19:13:24 <onetom> &the read about the bet :)
19:13:59 <onetom>  th
19:14:00 <dunno> ever run dpkg -s gforth? or was it pfe? have a look
19:14:03 <onetom> oops
19:14:32 <onetom> whats up w dpkg -s ?
19:15:32 <dunno> quite rocking description of gforth/pforth
19:15:50 <galexand> okay now i'm sure that in the end the trouble is my programming style but why is it that everyone is all "this is a really fast forth" and i use it and it's always noticably slower than c
19:15:55 <galexand> i mean just from perception of feeling the computer respond
19:16:36 <galexand> and at any rate on an x86 system i haven't used any sort of reasonably optimal code generation
19:16:47 <onetom> what specific forth r u talking about?
19:16:52 <galexand> well like pygmy forth
19:16:59 <galexand> or pretty much any of my experiments, even the machine code ones
19:17:04 <galexand> it's hard to get over the cost of a function call just to do add
19:17:05 <onetom> hm.. dunno, never used itû
19:17:07 <galexand> even a cheap function call
19:17:46 <onetom> could u rephrase this latest sentence of yours?
19:18:01 <onetom> (maybe u can formalize it ;)
19:18:55 <galexand> every forth system i've used if you have "1 2 +" you wind up with a sequence that is at best push 1, push 2, set instruction pointer to add, do the add, set the instruction pointer back.
19:19:18 <onetom> yes
19:19:31 <onetom> tho, native compilers can optimize it...
19:19:44 <onetom> like picforth does it...
19:19:57 <onetom> it optimizes it 2 "3" actually :)
19:20:22 <galexand> oh neat.  i did'nt know there were compilers out there that took a serious view to optimizing forth.
19:20:27 <galexand> thanks
19:20:57 <onetom> but eg "array 3 +" becomes "movlw 3   addwf FSR, F"
19:21:25 <galexand> like last programming language i implemented a compiler for looked like C just because i decided i wanted a register allocator
19:21:28 <onetom> 2 machine instructions. just the same way as u would write it by hand in assembly
19:21:37 <galexand> just the same way my c compiler would generate it. :)
19:22:02 <galexand> are there a lot of compilers like that, or is pic the only platform that anyone's really optimized a forth for :)
19:22:22 <galexand> er picforth is a cross compiler bah
19:22:26 <galexand> i guess for pic it makes sense though :)
19:22:38 <onetom> hmm... colorforth is pretty well optimized i think..
19:22:52 <galexand> i thought colorforth used a vm
19:23:09 <onetom> afaik bigforth is also an optimizing native compiler
19:23:17 * TreyB bails for a Win2K security update.
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19:23:33 <onetom> & its also shown good test results
19:23:45 <onetom> on algorithm comparision charts
19:24:12 <onetom> 12-13 04:23:28 < galexand> i thought colorforth used a vm
19:24:25 <onetom> what do u mean by that?
19:24:32 <galexand> i didn't think it was native
19:24:44 <galexand> oh i've looked at bigforth before.  i will look more at that thanks.
19:24:46 <onetom> but it is afaik..
19:25:47 <onetom> http://colorforth.com/forth.html
19:25:56 <iangreen> 2isnt colorforth chuck's ?
19:25:57 <onetom> quote: . Instructions are optimized if agruments are literals. 
19:26:45 <onetom> yeah, im talkin about that
19:26:49 <dunno> onetom: comparison charts? seriously?
19:27:00 <onetom> dunno: seriously
19:27:13 <onetom> dunno: let me dig them up 2 u
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19:27:26 <dunno> no stop
19:27:34 <dunno> plz
19:27:57 <onetom> ?
19:28:25 <onetom> they r just some nice graphs...
19:29:06 <dunno> have you noticed the charts at mpe comparing against swiftforth
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19:30:34 <onetom> http://dada.perl.it/shootout/
19:30:46 <onetom> no. url?
19:30:48 <dunno> and then the charts at forthcom comparing against mpe
19:30:55 <onetom> no. url?
19:33:34 <dunno> is it that late in szeged too? you are on nightshift? i will tell you tomorow or next time, if you like.ok? but
19:34:12 <onetom> :) yeah, its also 4:35am
19:34:15 <onetom> here
19:34:51 <onetom> i wasnt feel well last day so i slept most of it over
19:35:47 <onetom> but how do u know where im from?
19:36:25 <dunno> as a summary: both are faster at magnitudes over the OTHER. w/ almost same tasks. isn't that strange...?
19:39:13 <dunno> mozilla/chatzilla gives me your whois/url without any asking...
19:40:26 <dunno> just in case.... have a good night
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