00:00:00 --- log: started forth/02.12.11 00:00:59 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 00:01:25 --- join: proteusguy (~username@65.191.88.177) joined #forth 02:09:00 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 02:09:22 hi 02:10:11 Hi .) 02:53:48 g'd morning 03:08:44 hi 03:43:24 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 03:47:17 --- quit: lament ("mental mantle") 04:10:22 --- quit: proteusguy (Connection reset by peer) 04:10:30 --- join: proteus_ (~username@65.191.88.177) joined #forth 04:12:26 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 04:20:25 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 04:51:46 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 04:52:23 --- join: gTs42 (~gTs2@patr530-a142.otenet.gr) joined #forth 04:52:51 --- nick: gTs42 -> gTs2 04:53:04 hi gTs2 04:53:07 new here ? 04:53:12 more or less yeah 04:53:28 never really went in irc channels about prog languages 04:53:35 u'r forth xpereience ? 04:53:41 ~0 04:53:50 mine - <1y, logic games, utils 04:53:51 i know rpl 04:53:57 and sysrpl 04:53:58 rpl ? 04:54:11 yes. rpl 04:54:17 Reverse Polish Lisp 04:54:24 it's something between forth and lisp 04:55:30 http://tunes.org/Review/Languages.html 04:55:38 it has a short description there 04:55:55 from what i guess, this particular page is held in high regard in this channel 04:55:58 anyway 04:57:21 i tryed lisp, forth is better 4r things i do 04:57:47 forth is much close 2 hardw 04:58:04 and much easier to write good code 04:58:09 being close to hw isn't always good 04:58:27 forth is used in the boot process on pcs 04:58:30 or something like that 05:00:57 (so it is really close to hw) 05:01:07 rpl is like forth, only a bit higher level 05:01:38 like << 1 10 FOR X X 1 DISP NEXT >> 05:02:29 Hmm... 05:02:40 I'm at school now, but the class starts soon. 05:02:43 * Robert leaves again _) 05:02:45 :) 05:03:41 forth can be used 4r all levels of abstraction, from bootloader to app's script 05:04:00 ASM, LISP, C or Visual Basic - can't 05:04:03 i don't really understand why is a language used at bootup 05:04:06 either hi or lo 05:04:11 one would think it is all done in hardware 05:04:35 i mean u can write in Forth both at HW and at hiscript level 05:04:56 yes 05:05:22 i have got this win32forth 05:05:23 but 05:05:31 i can't even see where i write the code!?! 05:06:12 lisp is hi, c is mid, asm is lo, forth - all, to yield great ntegrity of concept, interface and human knoweledge 05:06:26 can you please stop preaching? 05:06:30 it's getting tiring 05:07:16 i just argue vs. u'r point what 'being close to hw is not always good' 05:07:53 being close to hardware isn't always 05:07:54 good 05:08:02 is that wrong? 05:08:33 sometimes you either don't want to be close to it, or you might not know what the hardware IS 05:09:52 so then i use only hi-level words and write 'portable way' 05:10:31 and my proggie is likely to run both on self-boot forth, and on one run in 'sandbox' environment 05:10:35 that's what i meant by saying that you don't always want to be close to hardware 05:10:46 personaly, i like being close to hw 05:11:11 (on a calc you can't do anything else... 4MHz just isn't enough to do anything but asm/sysrpl) 05:12:29 ...i am trying to load a file (hello.f) but it won't load :( it says c:\program.f not found!? 05:13:19 what forth are u using ? and what computer ? 05:13:34 i386, win32forth 05:13:49 how much RAM ? 05:13:53 enough 05:14:10 oh 05:14:12 when i said i3865 05:14:16 i meant the architecture 05:14:24 i've got a celeron 433MHz, 128M 05:14:39 (20G, geforce2, 20GB hd) 05:15:07 oops, i almost said what 4r 386 freebsd would be much better than win32 05:15:27 it would, wouldn't it? 05:15:35 wasting cycles 4r eye candy is Bad Thing 05:16:36 oh this music is wonderful 05:17:02 wHAT?!?! "460k bytes free" <----- ?!?!! 05:17:03 * Serg_Penguin tryed to turn Win98 to console-only, by saying exlorer = NC clone 05:17:14 HAHAHAHAHA 05:17:16 nc 05:17:17 man 05:17:19 what memories 05:18:17 wow 05:18:18 it ran 05:18:24 it just wanted fload hello 05:18:32 not fload hello.f 05:18:35 it works 05:20:56 it creates exes too 05:20:57 wheee 05:21:01 although a bit big :/ 05:24:11 * gTs2 calms down 05:24:38 try spf by Cherezov, RU 05:24:41 win32 05:24:57 ? 05:25:03 web server, proxy, mail tossser written in it 05:25:05 you're talking to me? 05:25:12 'soft panorama forth' 05:25:15 yes 05:25:24 nah 05:25:34 seems forth is pretty fast, huh 05:25:39 ENG docs available 05:26:06 but, why does it say 640K available 05:30:10 speed depends on implementation 05:30:29 well, ok, but forth should be nearly as fast as handcoded asm 05:30:46 spf (and bigforth on unix) compiles optimized native code 05:30:52 gforth is script-slow 05:31:20 ah, the spf you were talking about before is an implementation 05:31:35 i thought it was a software suite :) 05:31:41 err not sure 4r spf, maybe 'naive' machine code 05:31:49 but fast anyway 05:31:55 sorry...i'm pretty tired right now and i don't get things right away 05:33:44 i'm going to get this spf thing 05:33:57 1M 05:34:00 wow 05:34:20 not EVEN a meg! 05:35:04 forthers dislike bloatware :) 05:35:28 read articles on programmer philosofy from topic link 05:35:44 written by Chuck Moore and Jeff Fox 05:36:14 i bet you've seen and enjoy those 64K demos 05:36:36 do you have a fast machine? (500MHz/ geforce class graphics) 05:36:45 i rewrote my old game 'sokoban' in one-liners to test their ideas 05:36:51 GREAT experience 05:37:39 Robert implemented this way some crypto algorithm while chatting w/ me, it worked from 1st run, no debug 05:37:45 ask him :) 05:38:08 cool 05:38:09 --- join: dunno (~jhrjhmjh@p50804CEF.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 05:38:13 but you didn't tell me 05:38:20 do you know "farbrausch" ? 05:38:45 i have P4 2Ghz 256 DDR Gf2 Pro 32 SDRAM 05:38:56 oooh boy... 05:38:57 dunno know "far..." 05:39:04 and you haven't seen the farbrausch demos? 05:39:14 boy, you're in for a shock 05:39:14 no :( 05:39:29 do you want me to send you the exe, or do you prefer to get it from their site? 05:39:33 (i suggest their site) 05:39:42 wait. 05:39:48 i now type from P5 no-mmx 200mhz 32 ram 05:39:50 at work 05:40:03 eeeek 05:40:06 damn 05:40:06 and i now live away from my p4 05:40:09 anyway 05:40:15 when will you be getting ---oh 05:40:18 is absorbs dust 05:40:32 what the?! 05:40:57 http://www.farb-rausch.de/ <- here 05:41:21 coz i live w/ my girl and really dunno bring in any computers, i'm happy w/o them :) 05:41:29 err dnno want 05:42:14 hmmm 05:42:19 you still got to see the demos tho 05:44:02 girlfriend or no girlfriend 05:44:34 not doing so , you deny your geek-nature 05:46:48 bbl 05:46:51 --- quit: gTs2 () 05:52:29 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 06:23:01 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 06:25:27 --- join: tathi (~josh@wsip68-15-54-54.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 06:31:12 --- quit: proteus_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:31:30 --- join: proteus_ (~username@65.191.88.177) joined #forth 06:33:00 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 06:42:55 --- join: gTs2 (gTs2@212.205.244.207) joined #forth 06:49:41 hi gTs2 06:49:44 new here? 06:50:47 why is it every time i get in here someone else greets me and asks me if i am new here? 06:51:40 heh 06:52:08 you don't come in here enough :P 06:52:28 i don't have something to say really 06:58:36 liar 06:58:44 ? 06:58:57 what was that again? 07:13:47 I forgot 07:14:22 are you stupid? 07:15:55 somebody knows eserve? 07:27:56 gTs2: yes. 07:28:47 gTs2: lighten up, only kidding :) 07:39:57 --- quit: gTs2 () 07:45:09 --- quit: skylan ("*sigh*") 07:46:19 somebody knows eserve NOT? 07:48:28 --- join: I440r (~mark4@sdn-ap-008tnnashP0171.dialsprint.net) joined #forth 08:54:00 --- join: gilbertbsd (~gilbertbs@67.97.122.120) joined #forth 08:54:11 --- part: gilbertbsd left #forth 09:05:34 --- quit: proteus_ (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:22:35 --- join: gTs2 (gTs2@212.205.215.211) joined #forth 09:42:18 --- join: gilbertbsd (~gilbertbs@67.97.122.120) joined #forth 09:42:35 anyone tried STOIC yet? 09:42:37 comments? 09:43:43 http://stoical.sourceforge.net/summary.php 09:50:48 gilbertbsd: do you know the author of http://stoical.sourceforge.net/summary.php? 09:51:09 nope. 09:51:12 are you the author? 09:51:33 I know his name is jonathan moore liles or sumpin. 09:53:35 heh 09:53:47 "Moore, though clinically insane..." 09:53:58 is he? 09:54:11 I get a bad vibe from colorforth :( 09:54:40 it reminds me of the avant garde jazz of John Coltrane 09:55:21 dunno...I can't imagine how the author would know it if he was 09:55:36 given that he shares his name ... 09:55:43 personally I like some of the colorforth concepts 09:55:48 like what? 09:55:55 dunno about Chuck's, since I never had a machine that would run it 09:56:10 the color -- I find it easy to read 09:56:23 moving all the state information from the interpreter to the editor 09:56:24 are forth programmers generaly this loony, or just the two of you? 09:56:27 brb 09:56:28 --- quit: gTs2 () 09:56:52 the color? use VIM on a color terminal. 09:56:55 or gvim if you will. 09:57:11 also, I rather like Coltrane's music :P 09:57:11 would that solve the color problem for you? 09:57:14 (well, sometimes anyway) 09:57:48 yeah, I'm doing that -- I have a vim mode to color normal forth code 09:57:49 I love his music too, but I am a little afraid of the new directions he was going in before he died. 09:58:23 what do you mean though by 'moving state information to the editor'? 09:58:42 tathi i dont think any editor can color code forth properly, ive set up codewright with codesense and syntax highlighting for forth 09:58:42 but its never absolutely correct 09:58:58 the huffman-encoded source code has color information with each word 09:59:06 ah i see. 09:59:09 so the interpreter doesn't have to remember whether it's in interpret or compile state, etc 09:59:33 I managed to get colorforth running but I could not do anything with it. 10:00:02 maybe it didn't like my keyboard. 10:00:38 I440r: yeah, I've added a few things to my forth to help the syntax coloring mode. :) 10:01:37 i might do that if/when i write an editor for her 10:01:56 yah 10:05:51 --- join: gTs2 (gTs2@patr530-a032.otenet.gr) joined #forth 10:05:58 grr, sourceforge 10:06:05 what about the nuttiness gts2? 10:07:48 you're nuts 10:08:01 why? 10:08:07 dunno 10:08:10 I am not nuts. I am gilbert. 10:08:12 you code forth 10:08:12 ;) 10:08:14 that's enough reason for me 10:08:18 i'm George 10:08:28 nah I am trying to implement forth. Not code in forth. 10:08:35 its a scary language I tell you. 10:08:40 George Tsiros, from Patra. i study physics. 10:08:52 patra? greece? 10:09:07 yeah 10:09:30 do you like forth so far? 10:09:35 i like rpl 10:09:49 as soon as i manage to see how forth works with the system, i wil be able totell you 10:10:01 which system? 10:10:13 pc 10:10:27 there are many PC forths. Which OS? 10:10:32 for example, i know how to work with rpl on my calc. 10:10:42 but this win32forth is weird 10:10:48 win2k 10:10:52 how so? 10:10:56 i have this win32forth thing 10:11:02 RPn is straight forward. 10:11:09 i know rpn 10:11:15 in fact, that's all i can use, 10:11:20 but 10:11:38 i am not familiar with languages that don't follow the common write-compile-run-debug thing 10:11:59 but rpl is not a compiled language is it? 10:12:10 well...not exactly 10:12:24 it /is/ "compiled" in a way 10:12:34 at least it isn't in ascii when it is executed 10:12:52 it is a stream of objects 10:13:04 or addresses to objects 10:13:14 or addresses to memory locations meant to be run 10:13:22 it's a very weird apo 10:13:23 epi 10:13:25 API 10:13:26 DAMMIT 10:13:29 the best way IMO to understand forth is to write your own forth ;) 10:13:48 also have you seen the various forth articles on the web? 10:14:07 i am not that good a programmer that i have gone from the "write programs" level to the "write language implementations" level 10:14:12 you cant possibly know forth till you code one :) 10:14:41 gTs2 they say it is an easy language to 'write'. 10:14:43 ;) 10:15:17 but look up Julian Noble's forth tutorials. he is a physics professor and he used to use forth a lot. 10:16:19 there you go: http://dec.bournemouth.ac.uk/forth/links.html 10:16:31 * gTs2 goes 10:18:52 colorforth: brutally easy = clinically insane terror filled dreams ??? 10:20:44 terror filled dreams. I concur 10:21:52 not "filled" 10:21:56 just plain terror dreams 10:22:32 gT: http://www.figuk.plus.com/byof.htm 10:23:17 lemme guess 10:23:20 build your own forth 10:23:22 hah 10:23:22 yeah 10:23:24 yep. 10:23:28 ;) 10:24:19 try these two as well for byof ;) http://www.zetetics.com/bj/papers/moving1.htm http://dec.bournemouth.ac.uk/forth/forth.html 10:24:26 read one at a time and be careful. 10:24:55 last but not least: http://www.ultratechnology.com/4thlego.htm 10:25:00 that should keep you busy :D 10:25:12 i can't afford to stay busy 10:25:15 have other stuff to do 10:25:29 haha. 10:25:42 you can byof in 24 hrs if you know what you are doing. 10:27:04 I don't know what I am doing so its going to take me at least 2 years. 10:27:09 i am not a programmer 10:27:13 me neither. 10:27:14 i write small programs in rpl 10:27:18 nothing more 10:27:25 I write small programs in pseudocode. 10:27:27 nothing more. 10:27:28 ;) 10:29:17 you should listen to nevermore 10:29:22 want me to send you a song 10:29:37 is it like Portishead or Bjork? 10:29:43 uuuhh....no 10:29:53 what is it like? 10:30:05 mmm...progressive metal 10:30:15 it's complex, heavy music 10:30:21 hmmm. I like 'simple'. 10:30:36 maybe i shouldn't send you something like this 10:30:40 buti can send you something else 10:30:42 it might mess me up. 10:31:40 --- join: Stepan (~stepan@pD951DCF6.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 10:32:34 you know nightwish? 10:32:53 no. 10:32:57 whats that? 10:32:57 hmmm 10:33:57 it's like...you take a power metal band, add strings and keyboards and a female opera singer 10:34:03 Hi there. 10:34:07 hi Robert. 10:34:07 yo 10:34:27 hmmm. Metal and my ears do not go well together. 10:34:42 Same here ;) 10:34:51 you and your pre-- 10:34:53 how do you call that 10:34:56 prejudice 10:34:57 yeah 10:34:58 that's it 10:35:01 you're prejudiced 10:35:06 affected by mtvmetal 10:35:11 Yes. 10:35:13 I don't watch mtv. 10:35:16 and bands (ack) like korn /slayer whatever 10:35:28 I don't listen to them either. 10:35:33 good for you 10:35:34 do you listen to Bjork (easy music) and Tricky etc? 10:36:02 ok, get this 10:36:34 do you have a fast connection 10:36:40 anyway, a fast way to get songs 10:36:44 ummm. I am using a java based client with 0 capabilities. 10:36:50 yes I have a speedy connection. 10:36:50 as much as i waa--- 10:36:51 ? 10:37:01 can you get songs elsewhere? 10:37:11 yes from the music store down the road. 10:37:16 ... 10:37:27 i can't ask you to buy an entire album to listne to a song, can i? 10:37:39 what if i ftp it somewhere, will you get it from there? 10:37:47 I can try sometime. 10:37:56 hmmm 10:38:04 you're not very eager to give this a try, are you 10:38:17 given my budget, no :D 10:38:31 can't you get an mp3 SOMEway? 10:38:42 yes via my speedy connection to the cloud. 10:38:47 ? 10:38:56 so if i suggest you a song, you can try and get it? 10:39:09 yes I can. 10:39:57 before i do so 10:40:06 i'd like to discuss with you what you consider "metal" 10:40:08 name a band or two 10:40:34 the John Doe Steel Band of Trinidad and Tobago :D 10:40:40 because, i am pretty sure, because this is what happens most of the times someone says "i don't like metal", that you haven't actually listened to actual metal... 10:40:44 ? 10:40:47 wth the 10:40:56 I haven't had the time to listen to metal. 10:41:03 or much else. 10:41:45 i could be mean and suggest Therion-Ginnungagap 10:41:49 but i'm not 10:42:00 go fetch Nightwish, sleeping sun 10:42:11 there's just an electric guitar solo near the end 10:42:15 yes sir. immediately sir. 10:42:16 everything else is just singing 10:42:35 I am not afraid of the music I just don't like it yet. 10:42:47 this isn't even metal 10:42:49 as i said 10:43:01 there's electric guitar in the last half minute 10:43:07 but the voice is where all the money is 10:43:21 hmmm. do you listen to abbey lincoln? 10:43:25 her voice is money too. 10:43:26 "speedy connection" ... i envy you... 10:43:38 that name rings some bells...but... 10:43:40 yep. university firewalled connection. 10:43:51 then hwo are you going to get the song 10:44:16 via advanced search strategy techniques. 10:44:18 isn't she a jazz singer? 10:44:23 yes she is. 10:44:28 so you'll google yourself to the mp3? 10:44:31 I am gonna marry her when I make enough money. 10:44:40 yes I will google for night wish. 10:44:42 hmm... okkkk... 10:45:00 that won't get you anywhere 10:45:25 um 10:45:26 i found something 10:45:27 what won't? 10:45:38 --- part: tathi left #forth 10:45:52 why don't you put the music on a website and I'll go check it out. how did we come to be discussing music anyway? 10:46:12 because music is good 10:46:33 --- quit: I440r (Excess Flood) 10:46:33 because it is very difficult for me to upload 5M 10:46:54 why? just give me the url, start uploading and by tomorrow it should be done. 10:46:56 I am patient. 10:47:12 mmm.... 10:47:58 --- join: I440r (~mark4@sdn-ap-008tnnashP0171.dialsprint.net) joined #forth 10:49:06 here 10:49:26 http://www.nightwish.com/english/mp3.html 10:49:37 get the first one 10:49:57 (i'd suggest you get the good version, seeing as you don't have BW constraints) 10:50:05 ah good. excellent solution. 10:50:19 :/ 10:50:24 not really 10:50:30 'cause it's aclip 10:50:35 but enough to get an idea 10:51:00 excellent. 10:51:10 I gotta run man. I am very hungry. 10:51:11 what is excellent? 10:51:21 well, me too... 10:51:26 the idea. ;) it stimulates other parts of the brain. 10:51:27 but there's nothing in the fridge :/ 10:51:36 ah put money in your pocket and go get something. 10:51:37 yeah. i see that. your stomach just got stimulated 10:51:44 good 10:51:47 see you in 15? 10:51:51 bah, whatever 10:52:06 in a few. I'll be back. 10:52:08 --- part: gilbertbsd left #forth 10:53:48 --- quit: dunno () 10:54:51 --- quit: gTs2 () 11:00:25 --- join: dunno (~jhrjhmjh@p50804CEF.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 11:50:14 --- quit: I440r (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 12:59:32 --- join: wossname (wossname@HSE-QuebecCity-ppp82103.qc.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 13:10:56 --- join: skylan (sjh@Sprint260.tbaytel.net) joined #forth 13:56:54 --- join: tathi (~josh@ip68-9-68-215.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 14:33:48 --- join: gilbertbsd (~gilbertbs@67.97.122.120) joined #forth 14:43:52 --- join: tcn (tcn@tc3-login36.megatrondata.com) joined #forth 14:52:23 --- quit: gilbertbsd (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 14:58:58 --- quit: tcn (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 15:00:34 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 15:12:23 --- join: Soap` (~flop@202-0-42-22.cable.paradise.net.nz) joined #forth 15:13:36 * fridge rubs eyes 15:13:40 I'm sick of working 15:13:52 I'm sick of being awake, good night. 15:14:07 when is my government going to deliver to me this whole 'utopian society' thing 15:14:22 I want to frolic in the park 15:30:44 --- join: gilbertbsd (~gilbertbs@67.97.122.120) joined #forth 15:43:51 --- quit: dunno ("'nite") 15:52:22 --- quit: gilbertbsd (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 16:02:31 --- join: dunno__ (~jhrjhmjh@p50804CEF.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 16:03:12 I frolic in the park 16:03:17