00:00:00 --- log: started forth/02.12.05
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02:55:36 <Serg_Penguin> hey
02:55:42 <Robert> Hi Serg
02:56:11 <Serg_Penguin> my brain is now jamming - i slept too little
02:56:24 <Serg_Penguin> how's u'r project ?
02:57:29 <Robert> Well, I'm working on it... Planning how the Forth should look.
02:57:52 <Serg_Penguin> i tryed to write yet another fractal music proggie, but lost interest to thic PC-feeper beeps 2 early
02:58:28 <Robert> Fractal music?
02:58:54 <Serg_Penguin> yes, mus generated in r-time by recursive algorithm
02:59:06 * Serg_Penguin goes 2 make tea
02:59:26 <Robert> Heh, nice.
03:01:34 * Serg_Penguin is back w/ tea
03:01:55 <Serg_Penguin> i already wrote 2
03:02:23 <Serg_Penguin> 1st - DJGPP / C / Allegro, played sample rite 2 SB
03:02:53 <Serg_Penguin> 2nd - MS QBasic :)) generating script 2r csound
03:02:56 <Serg_Penguin> .
03:03:52 <Serg_Penguin> 1st was driven by script lang designed 4r use in gamez
03:04:07 <Serg_Penguin> 2nd was planned tracker/like
03:04:52 <Serg_Penguin> but i wrote no interface, only recursive proc, patterns were hardvired in src
03:07:50 <Robert> Heh.
03:09:27 <Serg_Penguin> latest was remake of 2nd in forth, but w pc-beep 4r first
03:10:19 <Robert> What algorithm do you use?
03:10:28 <Serg_Penguin> stupid recursion
03:10:36 <Serg_Penguin> imagine a tracker
03:11:20 <Serg_Penguin> now imagine what u put in slot not a sample but ref 2 anover pattern
03:11:28 <Serg_Penguin> 2 be called w/ params
03:11:42 <Serg_Penguin> so pattern may even call itself
03:12:54 <Serg_Penguin> 3 params  NOTE, TEMPO, AMP
03:13:05 <Serg_Penguin> maybe STAC - staccato/legato
03:13:48 <Serg_Penguin> really no notes - pure fractions (numbers)
03:14:04 * Serg_Penguin hates music theory
03:14:31 <Robert> Hehe-.
03:15:22 <Serg_Penguin> each param is fraction, like 2/3 or 101/100 :)
03:16:17 <Serg_Penguin> simple accords from music intro/tutor book sound funny w/ this
03:17:14 <Serg_Penguin> or just play w/ fractions till u hear harmony :)
03:18:04 <Serg_Penguin> or drive it by genetic algoritm and just hit 2 keys 'good' and 'bad'
03:18:11 <Serg_Penguin> --
03:18:20 <Serg_Penguin> mutate patterns by genetic algo
03:18:50 <Serg_Penguin> .
03:23:13 <Serg_Penguin> imagine a hall of listeners w/ r-time vote boxes + genetic algo + fractal
03:23:32 <Serg_Penguin> vote box = gsm fone + sms :)
03:26:22 <Serg_Penguin> beep 2 2
03:27:04 <Serg_Penguin> glitch )
03:31:21 * Serg_Penguin works hard....
03:34:24 <Robert> I'll have a class soon
03:34:26 <Robert> Bye
03:52:47 <Serg_Penguin> ok
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08:20:59 <Speuler> 'morning
08:23:36 <Robert> Hi Speuler 
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08:52:39 <Speuler> god dag the_rob
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09:44:19 <gilbertbsd> hello
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10:01:25 <Herkamire> hi gilbertbsd :)
10:02:30 <Herkamire> gilbertbsd: do you use pliant? (what for?)
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10:03:53 <Herkamire> gilbertbsd: do you use pliant? (what for?)
10:04:06 <gilbertbsd> No I don't. I was just looking at it.
10:04:59 <gilbertbsd> what do you think of Pliant?
10:05:23 <onetom> what is pliant? url?
10:05:24 <Herkamire> I haven't looked at the language.
10:05:29 <onetom> hi anyway
10:05:32 <Herkamire> onetom: pliant.cx
10:06:08 <gilbertbsd> i was mainly reading through its philosophy.
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10:55:29 <gilbertbsd> hi robert
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12:58:34 <gilbertbsd> hi lament
12:58:45 <lament> hi.
12:59:29 <Robert> Hello.
13:01:47 <gilbertbsd> so lament how goes making joy in python?
13:02:09 <lament> joy in python? why would i ever do anything as disgusting as that? :)
13:02:25 <gilbertbsd> emmm because you can!
13:02:54 <lament> I did write a joy interpreter (trivially convertible into a compiler) in Scheme
13:03:19 <gilbertbsd> really?
13:03:20 <lament> but it's WAY slower than the C implementation :(
13:03:39 <gilbertbsd> have you read sicp by any chance?
13:03:58 <lament> of course.
13:04:12 <gilbertbsd> ah see.
13:04:21 <lament> Bigloo scheme ROCKS for writing compilers
13:04:27 <lament> it has a builtin lexer/parser
13:08:12 <gilbertbsd> so is that what you normally use?
13:08:19 <gilbertbsd> what about MIT scheme?
13:08:27 <lament> well
13:08:50 <lament> i got influenced by the Great Computer Language Shootout
13:09:20 <gilbertbsd> ah okay.
13:09:33 <gilbertbsd> what weird languages have you encountered?
13:09:38 <lament> and bigloo has awesome documentation
13:10:04 <lament> weird languages? You mean like forth? :)
13:10:10 <gilbertbsd> yep. etc.
13:10:13 <lament> hehe
13:10:45 <gilbertbsd> colorforth does not count.
13:10:48 <lament> not many
13:10:51 <lament> a few esoteric ones
13:11:44 <lament> there's tons of esoteric stuff on www.catseye.mb.ca/esoteric and on the Esolang mailing list
13:13:17 <gilbertbsd> have you written a lisp yet?
13:13:22 <gilbertbsd> lisp 1.5ish
13:16:20 <lament> lisp is boring :)
13:16:59 <gilbertbsd> but its easy (supposedly)
13:17:34 <gilbertbsd> at least to implement.
13:17:57 <lament> yes
13:18:05 <lament> especially in lisp :)
13:18:48 <gilbertbsd> hahahaha.
13:19:00 <gilbertbsd> but what would be the main challenge in implementing it in some other language?
13:20:19 <lament> not sure
13:34:37 <ian> some tell me i should learn lisp. seems i could make more use of it than forth. i suck too bad at forth. rather i dont have enough problems/motivation
13:35:38 <lament> ian: learn lisp, then
13:36:36 <gilbertbsd> ian learn python!
13:37:16 <ian> gilbertbsd: why?
13:37:30 <ian> seems it wouldnt take but 5 minutes
13:37:40 <gilbertbsd> indeed.
13:37:43 <ian> lament: I thinki will
13:37:47 <gilbertbsd> you can get stuff done quickly.
13:37:49 <ian> gilbertbsd: I have no use for it raelly
13:37:58 <ian> at the mo
13:38:00 <gilbertbsd> what do you want to use lisp for then/
13:38:01 <gilbertbsd> ?
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13:58:54 <ian> *shrugs*
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14:05:02 <lament> hehe
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14:42:19 <Robert> Hi Herkamire.
14:42:47 <Herkamire> hi Robert  :)
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18:08:20 <Herkamire> pliant looks cool
18:14:21 <gilbertbsd> have you tested it?
18:14:32 <gilbertbsd> or just from looking at it?
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18:20:03 <I440r> who in here is realy good at c ?
18:20:05 <I440r> if anyone :)
18:21:17 <XeF4> I was, but I've abstained from C coding for awhile, what's the problem?
18:22:14 <I440r> air is helping me, i want to have a union so i can refer to a structure of bits as a UINT32 too
18:22:53 <gilbertbsd> i440 you are doing C now ?
18:23:03 <Herkamire> gilbertbsd: I tried it. I haven't gotten to making objects yet, but it's a fun little syntax
18:23:12 <gilbertbsd> really?
18:23:27 <gilbertbsd> how fun exactly is fun? it looked a little wordy to me.
18:24:13 <Herkamire> gilbertbsd: the only think wordy I've found is declaring types for your function definition
18:24:43 <Herkamire> it seems to be a lot like lisp, except  without most of the perens, and with quite a few usefull syntax constructs thrown in
18:24:59 <Herkamire> ok, not a lot like lisp, but more like lisp than anything else I've seen :)
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18:26:24 <Herkamire> rrr, did that make sense, I mean nothing else is as simular to pliant as lisp is.
18:26:30 <Herkamire> how the hell do you say that?
18:26:52 <Fractal> Pliant predominantly resembles lisp.
18:27:15 <Fractal> Heh.
18:27:42 <XeF4> Pliant's closest relative seems to be lisp?
18:28:13 <Herkamire> ahhh :) sweet english to my ears :)
18:28:32 <Herkamire> and the winner is.... XeF4 :)
18:30:38 <Herkamire> pliant didn't seem wordy to me
18:31:02 <Herkamire> it seemed like he did a pretty good job getting rid of symbols
18:31:22 <Herkamire> except for declaring argument types, that seemed a little wierd
18:31:37 <gilbertbsd> what about dylan?
18:31:42 <gilbertbsd> is it LIKE dylan?
18:32:13 <Herkamire> haven't tried dylan
18:32:32 <gilbertbsd> because dylan is supposedly a lisp w/o the parenthesis.
18:32:48 <gilbertbsd> let me see what google tells me.
18:34:50 <gilbertbsd> google said little about pliant dylan
18:37:12 <XeF4> have you checked http://www.gwydiondylan.org/ ?
18:37:35 <gilbertbsd> for references to pliant?
18:37:46 <XeF4> no, for references to dylan
18:37:52 <XeF4> and a specific dylan implementation
18:37:55 <gilbertbsd> ah I know where dylan is :D
18:38:06 <gilbertbsd> but I was looking for dylan vs pliant
18:38:21 <XeF4> but I haven't looked at that site for ~3 years, so I don't even know if it is still there..
18:38:40 <gilbertbsd> yeah dylan is still alive.
18:38:49 <gilbertbsd> Barely. it seems like its wants to be a nice language.
18:38:50 <XeF4> if you know where&what dylan is and you know where&what pliant is, couldn't you just make a mental comparison of the two?
18:39:13 <gilbertbsd> I am hoping someone did that work already.
18:39:29 <XeF4> fwiw, I thought of dylan a lot while reading about pliant
18:41:15 <gilbertbsd> ah did you?
18:41:15 <gilbertbsd> Now I know who is gonna come up with the comparison :D
18:41:40 <XeF4> but I have not looked at dylan for aeons and I don't remember most of the details
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18:42:26 <gilbertbsd> merd.net/pixel/language-study/syntax-across-languages/vrs.html
18:42:32 <gilbertbsd> that might refresh your memory some.
18:43:20 <gilbertbsd> I wonder if dylan is a victim of better is worse.
18:43:29 <XeF4> syntax is not semantics and when the languages you're comparing have extensible syntax, eyeballing of syntax descriptions isn't too useful
18:43:45 <gilbertbsd> *shrug*
18:43:56 <gilbertbsd> semantic comparisons we will expect from XeF4 ;)
18:44:01 <lament> forth has extensible syntax, but to my knowledge all forth variants still look ugly :)
18:44:47 <gilbertbsd> there is still one beautiful language isn't there lament?
18:45:09 <Fractal> Forth syntax is remarkably simple: words separated by white space. The end.
18:45:35 <lament> gilbertbsd: Yes!
18:50:50 <gilbertbsd> :D
19:00:23 <lament> Fractal: well, that's simplifying a bit
19:00:32 <lament> forth's syntax can be anything
19:06:52 <gilbertbsd> forth hath no syntax.
19:07:06 <gilbertbsd> you only have syntax problems WHEN you try to write a non trivial app :D
19:07:26 <lament> yes, forth doesn't have a fixed syntax
19:08:32 <gilbertbsd> but you can't say things any which way you want.
19:08:54 <lament> of course you can! You just have to tweak forth first
19:09:06 <gilbertbsd> ah ha. and then its not forth anymore!
19:09:27 <lament> except it is.
19:09:43 <gilbertbsd> how so? is everything a forth? no.
19:09:52 <gilbertbsd> is any program written in forth a forth? no.
19:10:06 <lament> i would dare say it is.
19:10:22 <gilbertbsd> so a lisp written in forth IS forth?
19:10:33 <gilbertbsd> a python interpreter written in forth IS forth?
19:10:36 <lament> yes
19:10:46 <gilbertbsd> so EVERYTHING is forth!!
19:10:49 <lament> as long as you're still using Forth's outer interpreter
19:11:01 <gilbertbsd> in that case everything is asm.
19:11:05 <lament> no.
19:11:08 <gilbertbsd> why not?
19:11:17 <lament> because asm is not an extensible language.
19:11:23 <gilbertbsd> but I say it is!
19:11:27 <lament> well, you're wrong.
19:11:28 <gilbertbsd> it is _the_ extensible language!!!
19:11:55 <lament> fine
19:12:01 <lament> so it's an extensible language
19:12:07 <lament> but you can't change its syntax :)
19:12:15 <gilbertbsd> surely not.
19:12:22 <gilbertbsd> but you can write macros to do that for you.
19:12:30 <gilbertbsd> or you can write a forth to do that for you ;)
19:13:24 <lament> macros?
19:13:30 <lament> then you're using a macro preprocessor
19:13:49 <gilbertbsd> bah these people are kicking me out.
19:13:53 <lament> yay
19:13:56 <gilbertbsd> :(
19:13:58 <lament> from where?
19:14:01 <gilbertbsd> I will be back on monday.
19:14:04 <gilbertbsd> from this lab.
19:14:05 <lament> oh
19:14:07 <lament> oh.
19:14:08 <lament> bye.
19:14:11 <gilbertbsd> bye.
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19:19:40 <I440r> xef4 u there ?
19:20:56 <XeF4> yes
19:24:38 <I440r> im having problems with this fucked up c language :(
19:24:43 <I440r> BIT prblems
19:25:59 <I440r> hang on...
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20:50:59 <XeF4> rlwimi (ppc instruction) is doubleplus good.
21:11:02 <Herkamire> XeF4: tathi's favorite is rlwinm which is similar
21:16:23 <XeF4> am I missing something or is branching to the link register the only to load an absolute address into the PC?
21:16:38 <XeF4> only way, even
21:18:57 <Herkamire> XeF4: tathi says you usually put it in the count register (that way you can do bctrl so you can return)
21:19:23 <XeF4> is tathi physically with you?
21:20:40 <XeF4> bctrl?  not bclrl?
21:21:27 <XeF4> if that's how it is, that's how it is, but I can already feel the pipeline stalling..
21:21:50 <TreyB> Favorite PPC instructions?
21:21:57 * TreyB missed the first part of the conversation.
21:22:07 <XeF4> the conversation started after you joined
21:22:43 <TreyB> Hmmm.  I guess so.
21:22:51 * TreyB likes: eieio
21:23:50 <TreyB> Purely from a speak-the-mnemonic point of view.
21:25:23 <TreyB> It also proved itself useful in my former life as a graphics driver writer for PPC hardware.
21:47:07 <Herkamire> XeF4: oh, I never answered, tathi is my roommate. and my cousin
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22:18:14 <Serg_Penguin> hi proteusguy
22:18:30 <proteusguy> yo.
22:18:33 <proteusguy> :-)
22:20:37 <Serg_Penguin> whadda u work on now ?
22:23:32 <proteusguy> nothing in forth unfortunately... wrapping up a postgres database conversion for a hospital right now.
22:24:35 * Serg_Penguin is having fun in the night shift :)
22:24:47 <Serg_Penguin> so my head is to upset 4r any progging
22:24:49 <proteusguy> night shift of what?
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