00:00:00 --- log: started forth/02.12.04
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01:46:38 <onetom> Serg_Penguin: yes, i was the guy who has explained that a! stuff 2 u
01:46:55 <onetom> Serg_Penguin: we can discuss it l8r 2day
01:51:26 <Serg_Penguin> ok
01:51:38 <Serg_Penguin> it helps much, even defined via :
01:51:49 <Serg_Penguin> i used it in my one-liner sokoban
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06:48:18 <Serg_Penguin> hiiii
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13:55:48 <gilbertbsd> hello.
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14:00:50 <Robert> Hi gilbert.
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15:00:10 <gilbsd> hullo
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18:23:26 <rodapop> ya
18:23:29 <rodapop> oooh
18:23:57 <rodapop> forthers?
18:25:38 <Herkamire> allo
18:36:47 <rodapop> allo
18:37:07 <rodapop> good win32 system out there for forth?
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19:07:15 <gilbertbsd> hullo
19:07:28 <XeF4> hullu
19:08:02 <gilbertbsd> hey Xef4 have you ever run knoppix?
19:08:03 <Herkamire> yo
19:08:10 <gilbertbsd> knoppix anyone?
19:08:17 <XeF4> I haven't
19:08:27 <Herkamire> never heard of it
19:08:57 <gilbertbsd> ah its a live filesystem
19:09:03 <gilbertbsd> with debian and Kde.
19:09:10 <gilbertbsd> really neat.
19:09:20 <gilbertbsd> runs off a CD.
19:09:50 <Herkamire> cool
19:10:24 <gilbertbsd> no messing with partitions or installations or anything.
19:10:31 <Herkamire> I think it would be cool to release a game on a bootable CD
19:10:35 <gilbertbsd> it is simpler than freebsd and that comes as a shock.
19:10:41 <gilbertbsd> YEah thats an idea too!!
19:10:53 <gilbertbsd> very doable.
19:11:05 <Herkamire> then you don't have to deal with windoze :)
19:11:10 <gilbertbsd> with knoppix I don't even need to configure X at all!
19:11:19 <gilbertbsd> its perhaps the age of a million OSes?
19:11:31 <lament> only until Tunes is out :)
19:11:36 <gilbertbsd> Ah Tunes.
19:11:36 <XeF4> but you have to deal with whatever graphics crap you have on the knoppix cd, probably X
19:11:41 <gilbertbsd> are you a tunes guy lament?
19:11:48 <lament> gilbertbsd: alas, no.
19:12:10 <gilbertbsd> Xef4 yes but you can always ctrl alt f[2-4] for a terminal session.
19:12:23 <Herkamire> XeF4: you could modify it however you want, I asume you'd have to use X to get 3D accel though. you could certainly get rid of KDE though.
19:12:54 <gilbertbsd> apparently building a live file system might not be that big a deal.
19:13:29 <Herkamire> heh :) I migh like to carry that around with me, so I can use linux when I'm at a friend's house :) :)
19:13:32 <gilbertbsd> lament do you have ideas for tunes?
19:13:48 <lament> gilbertbsd: me? Ideas for tunes? Hell no, i'm not a PhD
19:14:03 <lament> gilbertbsd: All I can do is stare at it in awe
19:14:04 <gilbertbsd> I am using knoppix now on my schools computers and every other computer (netware based) is unable to logon
19:14:08 <gilbertbsd> I defy their admin stuff.
19:14:18 <gilbertbsd> lament I used to chat with this guy water. 
19:14:26 <XeF4> Herk: X for fast realtime graphics is not so very pleasant
19:14:32 <gilbertbsd> I have taken a sabbatical to catch up with whatever the hell he has been talking about.
19:14:39 <lament> and?
19:14:44 <gilbertbsd> I am still on the sabbatical.
19:14:48 <gilbertbsd> he is the tunes arrow guy.
19:14:49 <lament> hehe
19:14:53 <lament> i know.
19:14:54 <Herkamire> XeF4: is there a way that linux is good for that?
19:15:03 <lament> gilbertbsd: if you're interested in tunes
19:15:09 <lament> gilbertbsd: their site is being redone
19:15:11 <XeF4> Herk: not with decent hardware support
19:15:16 <gilbertbsd> I love their logo.
19:15:24 <lament> gilbertbsd: tunes.org/new/
19:15:37 <gilbertbsd> its not the fault of linux that its so hard to get good drivers for new hardware.
19:15:39 <lament> although it's pretty much the same right now
19:16:07 <gilbertbsd> yes it is isn't it?
19:16:31 <gilbertbsd> the tunes guys seem to love forth, lisp, squeak and asm quite a bit though.
19:16:44 <XeF4> no, but it is a fault that the framework itself is enormous and slow
19:16:45 <gilbertbsd> Python I tell them. but do they listen?
19:17:00 <gilbertbsd> XeF4 I bet you could write a better one in Forth ;)
19:17:05 <XeF4> even with my 8-year-old S3 card
19:17:07 <gilbertbsd> in a Day :D
19:17:20 <lament> gilbertbsd: Python would be bad for tunes
19:17:30 <gilbertbsd> why?
19:18:03 <gilbertbsd> oh and that odd language maude.
19:18:17 <XeF4> user xres user yres user chord user bpp user fbuf defer blit \ ok, done.
19:18:36 <gilbertbsd> are you sure? done already?
19:18:58 <lament> gilbertbsd: read the hll requirements page :)
19:19:14 <gilbertbsd> oh python isn't reflective.
19:19:37 <gilbertbsd> the guys sound like the pliant guys.
19:19:43 <gilbertbsd> I just found out about it today.
19:19:51 <lament> pliant?
19:20:28 <gilbertbsd> yep.
19:20:38 <gilbertbsd> pliant.cx
19:21:24 <gilbertbsd> they believe in using only one language.
19:21:31 <gilbertbsd> Pliant. Unless you insist.
19:21:35 <lament> hmm, oh.
19:21:44 <lament> yeah, that would be quite different from tunes
19:21:54 <lament> and quite a lot like Forth OSes :)
19:22:43 <gilbertbsd> pliant.cx/pliant/welcome/philosophy.html
19:22:55 <gilbertbsd> so many people sound a tad like CM
19:22:56 <lament> also, their languages seems to suck
19:23:05 <lament> s/languages/language
19:23:16 <gilbertbsd> I also read a paper by guy steele (old paper) entitled "growing a language"
19:23:25 <gilbertbsd> it smacked of forth but he didn't mention it.
19:23:36 <lament> pliant doesn't look exciting
19:23:40 <lament> function fact n -> f
19:23:40 <lament>   arg Int n f
19:23:40 <lament>   f := 1
19:23:40 <lament>   for (var Int i) 1 n
19:23:40 <lament>     f *= i
19:23:56 <gilbertbsd> it seems a bit wordy doesn't it?
19:24:03 <lament> that's Pascal with significant whitespace :)
19:24:10 <gilbertbsd> hehehe.
19:24:37 <XeF4> more like lisp with significant whitespace and perverted sexps
19:25:07 <lament> hm, true
19:25:42 <XeF4> I looked at the parser sources ~2.5 years ago, appalling
19:26:11 <lament> still, it's a fairly primitive language, it seems
19:26:21 <XeF4> Mr. Pliant says everything can be changed with ease, including the syntax
19:26:33 <gilbertbsd> yep.
19:26:35 <gilbertbsd> Forth to the core.
19:26:36 <XeF4> but when the bulk of the parser is in write-only C
19:26:43 <lament> hehehe
19:27:14 <gilbertbsd> now that I have seen all these other things I really wish I wasn't so afraid of colorForth.
19:29:16 <gilbertbsd> aaargh I gotta run.
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19:40:38 <lament> hmm
19:40:46 <lament> pliant has C++-like overloading
19:41:24 <lament> or something similar
19:41:38 <lament> and c++-like types :(
19:41:42 <lament> c-like even
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