00:00:00 --- log: started forth/02.11.28
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02:30:41 <fridge> hey
02:30:51 <Robert> Hi there, fridge 
02:31:24 <fridge> I found some stuff to read for the train home... just random pages off ultratechnology.com... they're all pretty interesting =)
02:31:35 <fridge> have to remember to take my books tomorrow
02:31:51 <Robert> Yes.
02:31:57 <Robert> That page is good.
02:32:02 <Robert> Read it, and OBEY! ;)
02:36:18 * Serg_Penguin agrees w/ Robert
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02:43:46 <fgsggfhag> re
02:43:54 <Robert> :)
02:43:59 <Robert> Hi again.
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02:45:52 <Robert> Hi lament.
02:47:38 <lament> hi.
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02:55:21 <[crc]> hi
02:57:34 <Robert> Hi [crc].
03:02:36 * Serg_Penguin works hard, idle
03:02:56 <Robert> OK, see you.
03:09:20 <[crc]> What's the common method to implement hashing in forths? One hashtable for each wordlist?
03:10:56 <Robert> I guess so.
03:16:13 <Serg_Penguin> two cases - two bad power units. damn chinese cheap crap !
03:16:26 <Robert> >:/
03:17:34 <Serg_Penguin> no, =8-{z}
03:17:52 <Serg_Penguin> z = blitz and foul curse
03:18:19 <Robert> Hehe.
03:19:46 * Serg_Penguin seems to take 2 rigz apart to return trash cases
03:20:25 <Robert> What kind of company are you working for? ISP?
03:20:52 <Serg_Penguin> second/hand computers and GSM fonez, mostly
03:21:08 <Serg_Penguin> or just ultra cheap ( and buggy )
03:21:40 <Serg_Penguin> or 'refurbished'...
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03:22:47 <Robert> Hehe.
03:22:49 <Robert> Hi Speuler.
03:23:01 <Speuler> god dag the_rob
03:23:33 <Robert> Where are you now? I don't recognize your hostname.
03:23:53 <Speuler> got back to munich yesterday morning
03:24:09 <Robert> Okay.
03:24:27 <Speuler> was fetched
03:24:51 <Speuler> munich people came to NL to pick me up :)
03:25:23 <Speuler> i tend to stay away longer than i announce
03:25:29 <Speuler> or even expect to stay
03:25:41 <Speuler> often about 4 times as long
03:25:50 <Robert> Heh.
03:25:56 <Speuler> so when i was away twice as long ...
03:26:21 <Robert> ...they missed you do much, they couldn't stand being away from you anymore?
03:26:37 <Speuler> misc reasons
03:26:59 <Speuler> partly that business threatened to come to a screeching halt
03:31:17 <Robert> Ik ga... doei!
03:31:27 * Robert hurries away.
03:34:07 <Serg_Penguin> going down for some test...
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05:48:54 <Serg_Penguin> re
05:49:08 <Robert> Hi Serg.
05:50:00 <Serg_Penguin> da-a-a-amn, it gone ! we tossed the crap in the car and it gone to f..g greedy customer....
05:50:46 <Serg_Penguin> so what about exe files of u'r 'OS' ?
05:51:10 <Robert> I'm not so sure I'll use executables.
05:54:40 <Serg_Penguin> so how u'll unload finished tasks from dictionary ?
05:57:22 <Serg_Penguin> if u FLOADed 'search' and then FLOADed 'txtread', and serach gave result and stopped, but u still want read text, how u'll FORGET search w/o FORGETing txtread ?
05:58:26 <Robert> I won't.
05:58:53 <Robert> You can either keep the compiled code in memory, all of it, or recompile it.
05:59:06 <Serg_Penguin> so tasks and their ALLOTed stuff will pile till eat all core ? 
05:59:35 * Serg_Penguin won't expect long uptime from suh OS
06:00:05 <Robert> Heh. It's not supposed to have that.
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06:24:39 <Serg_Penguin> z
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06:29:25 <Serg_Penguin> does one know where is 12 cleverdra 1 ?
06:29:36 <Serg_Penguin> i really miss him...
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08:35:54 <Robert> Hmm.
08:36:27 <Robert> Making "if" leave the stack untouched, would that be a good idea?
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14:24:07 <TheBlueWizard> hiya all
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14:33:23 <TheBlueWizard> hiya wossname
14:33:53 <wossname> hello bluewiz
14:34:06 <TheBlueWizard> 'sup?
14:34:34 <wossname> not doing my homework =)
14:34:41 <wossname> and you?
14:35:55 <TheBlueWizard> right now just veggin' out, reading emails, read slashdot, lurk in #debian and here :)
14:36:07 <TheBlueWizard> I owe it to myself :)
14:36:29 <wossname> hehe, yes. feel the time slip away..
14:38:05 <TheBlueWizard> yep :)   then chase the lost time like crazy! ;)
14:45:32 <TheBlueWizard> gotta go...bye all
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14:51:24 <Robert> Hrm.
14:51:41 <Robert> Hi wossname.
14:51:41 <wossname> meh
14:51:46 <wossname> mehllo
14:51:51 <Robert> http://dh.dunder.net/img41.png
14:51:54 <Robert> :)
14:52:21 * wossname waits for it to load
14:52:36 <wossname> AGGHHETH
14:52:40 <wossname> scary monster!#@%
14:52:57 <wossname> that isn't you, is it? geqo?
14:53:04 <wossname> ah, dh = dreamhack ;D
14:53:27 <Robert> Yes.
14:53:33 <Robert> And yes, it's geqo.
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14:55:50 <wossname> mehl
14:55:58 <wossname> i want dreamhack to be delivered to my room
14:56:46 <XeF4> you want 5000 kids watching their first porno and playing quake in your room?
14:57:35 <wossname> <Robert> wossname vet också den hemska sanningen nu.
14:57:51 <wossname> ah, to put it like that...
15:09:27 <Robert> Heh.
15:09:38 <Robert> XeF4: :)
15:09:49 <Robert> wossname: "wossname also knows the horrible truth now"
15:10:20 <Robert> XeF4: That's the spirit...defended by too few in this country.
15:15:00 <XeF4> hemska is terrible?
15:16:17 <Robert> "den hemska" = "the terrible"... or maybe "horrible".
15:20:07 <wossname> ;lbc
15:23:49 <wossname> i've been roped into debugging a broken visual basic program
15:24:29 <wossname> they learn hungarian-esque notation and other such garbage, but not how to pogram. blehleggen
15:27:01 <Robert> Who?
15:27:20 <Robert> btw, my Forth compiler is kind of done now...
15:27:26 <wossname> ah, send it ;)
15:27:42 <wossname> or link, meh. a guy i know, doing the ``cs course'' at my school
15:28:26 <Robert> http://robert.zizi.org/pub/fcom.tgz
15:28:31 <Robert> Hah.
15:28:33 <Robert> How...nice.
15:28:44 <Robert> I don't know how to program either.
15:29:02 <wossname> :o
15:29:09 * Robert feels like he knows many programming languages, but not how to program.
15:29:17 <wossname> that's smerdy's fault.
15:30:01 <Robert> No.
15:30:08 <Robert> Only a part of it.
15:30:34 <Robert> I've thought about it alot even before he showed up telling everyone they're lamers.
15:30:38 <wossname> well.. do a cs course? what is programming?
15:31:25 <wossname> "c:\fcom\fcom\fcom"
15:31:27 <wossname> :p
15:31:33 <Robert> "CS course"? I'm actually thinking about doing that at a local university.
15:31:34 <Robert> Eh?
15:31:52 <Robert> My current school sucks in that matter.
15:31:56 <wossname> what i extracted the compiler into, due to your *nix utilities :/
15:32:07 <wossname> well, not do cs at university? robert? heh
15:32:47 <Robert> ?
15:33:09 <wossname> answer my question. what do you think programming is?
15:33:14 <Robert> Ah.
15:33:36 <Robert> Much more of algorithm construction. I barley passed the simple C++ programming test.
15:33:58 <Robert> Well... I could do all of the tasks, but I did stupid mistakes.
15:34:01 <wossname> what was the test? can't have been much more than a language thing
15:34:14 <Robert> It wasn't... That's what scares me.
15:34:35 <wossname> writing code on paper never works as well as in a fluid editor :/
15:35:01 <Robert> On paper?
15:35:08 <Robert> You have to do that?
15:35:09 <wossname> the test wasn't on paper?
15:35:12 <wossname> heheh
15:35:28 <wossname> i _did_, but i don't cs at school anymore
15:35:32 <Robert> Of COURSE not.
15:35:39 <Robert> Only an idiot would do that.
15:35:45 <Robert> (A canadian idiot :D)
15:36:09 <Fractal> What's that?
15:36:16 <Fractal> Something against .ca?
15:36:21 <wossname> :D
15:36:28 <Robert> Something against canadian schools, maybe?
15:36:42 <wossname> rob, why don't you use a hash table for your forth compiler?
15:37:02 <Fractal> Robert : Why, what's wrong with canadian schools?
15:37:20 <Robert> wossname can tell you.
15:37:29 <wossname> canadian schools are stupid
15:37:31 <Robert> He's an exptert on finding faults.
15:37:53 <Robert> wossname: Because then it would take more time to write.
15:37:59 <Robert> wossname: That's a quick and dirty hack.
15:38:05 <Robert> wossname: Nothing I'll try to sell.
15:38:19 <wossname> bleh, robert. a hash table would take just as long, and could be as quick and dirty #>:i
15:38:48 <Robert> Be quiet.
15:39:00 <wossname> :/
15:39:19 <wossname> ok. the file is ok, until you reach the compile_word function...
15:40:06 <Robert> How do you mean, "the file is OK"?
15:40:21 <wossname> i mean, the source code in the compile_word function is downright scary >:D
15:40:47 <Robert> So _what_?
15:41:06 <wossname> ok, ko.
15:41:17 <wossname> back to bitching about school/self
15:41:47 <Robert> :)
15:42:03 <Robert> It's better than nothing.
15:42:28 <wossname> just like life.
15:42:56 <wossname> where did all the cool ideas go?
15:43:53 <Robert> Cool ideas?
15:44:27 <wossname> yeah. last year, we spent almost every day spitting out cool (sometimes retarded) ideas
15:45:00 <Robert> Hehe.
15:45:15 <Robert> I could spit out more than you can swallow.
15:46:00 <wossname> yeah? shoot!
15:46:07 <Robert> Hehe.
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16:34:37 <Fractal> OK, frugal runs on SunOS SPARC now.
16:34:43 <Fractal> Turned out to be an alignment issue.
16:35:27 <Fractal> (And a linking issue, but that was easy)
16:41:05 <fridge> frugal?
16:41:11 <fridge> was ist das?
16:41:19 <Fractal> www.hcsw.org/frugal/
16:42:29 <fridge> thanks
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18:37:11 <Fractal> Hey.
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19:26:48 <Fractal> lament : You here?
19:27:36 <lament> yes
19:28:25 <Fractal> I'm about to do a 1.0.0 frugal release - any ideas?
19:28:32 <Fractal> I got SunOS compat down.
19:29:14 <lament> Hm, I don't know enough about Frugal (or Forth) to have any ideas
19:29:33 <Fractal> Hmm.. Well in your brief experimentation with it, what pissed you off most?
19:30:09 <Fractal> BTW, the SunOS turned out to be a linking problem and an alignment problem. Not that tough to fix.
19:30:10 <lament> Umm.. Everything? :)
19:30:20 <Fractal> Uh... Doesn't help much. :)
19:30:42 <lament> Change frugal to haskell :)
19:30:52 <Fractal> Well...
19:31:19 <Fractal> 1.0.0 is a big step, so..
19:31:27 <lament> hehe
19:31:39 <Fractal> Added a long, long TODO list, for one. :)
19:31:44 <Fractal> Clarified some docs...
19:32:04 <lament> add colors, perhaps? :)
19:32:12 <Fractal> Took out a few core words that didn't really belong in there.
19:32:15 <Fractal> It does have colour./
19:32:22 <Fractal> red term-fg
19:32:28 <Fractal> ^^ Makes foreground colour red
19:32:33 <Fractal> white term-bg
19:32:41 <Fractal> ^^ Makes background colour white
19:32:57 <lament> wow, neat
19:33:06 <Fractal> :)
19:33:25 <Fractal> Read the section "TERMINAL PROGRAMMING" in docs/USING
19:33:26 <lament> I meant colours as syntax, of course. And it's a troll anyway :)
19:33:31 <Fractal> Oh. Heh.
19:34:52 <Fractal> Took out a few glibc specific calls...
19:35:00 <Fractal> Well, one...
19:35:32 <Fractal> Heh, well if you can't think of anything, I'm just about to release i.
19:35:35 <Fractal> *it.
19:35:39 <lament> does frugal have fsave?
19:36:05 <Fractal> As in writing words you've entered into the interpreter to a file?
19:36:14 <Fractal> Cause, no.
19:36:21 <Fractal> It *does* however support open/close
19:36:26 <Fractal> For both reading and writing.
19:36:47 <lament> fsave, afaik, saves the whole image
19:36:52 <lament> as an executable
19:36:56 <Fractal> Mainly because I develop almost exclusively in an editor, then load it into the interpreter.
19:37:02 <Fractal> Oh, no. Use fgcc for that.
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19:50:25 <Fractal> Hmm... What's the date today?
19:50:48 <lament> nov. 28?
19:50:55 <Fractal> Thanks.
19:50:58 <lament> in usa at least
19:52:26 <lament> You know about 'date', right? :)
19:52:48 <Fractal> Yes, but mine isn't set right.
19:53:13 <Fractal> I figure I should have a correct timestamp for 1.0.0
19:56:29 <Fractal> Get yer 1.0.0: www.hcsw.org/frugal/frugal-1.0.0.tgz
19:57:15 <Fractal> Tell gilbertbsd that 1.0.0 will run on his SunOS if he uncomments the "SUNOS" line in the makefile.
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20:17:05 <ianni> werd
20:17:32 <Fractal> Sup ianni?
20:18:32 <ianni> nada
20:18:43 <Fractal> werd, I guess.
20:18:44 <ianni> thinking
20:18:56 <Fractal> Cool. Bout?
20:19:06 <ianni> everything
20:19:15 <ianni> truth
20:19:22 <ianni> hehe
20:19:54 <ianni> metaphysical crap
20:20:10 <ianni> poring through frugal.c
20:20:38 <ianni> pretty clean c code
20:20:50 <Fractal> Thanks. It's OK.
20:20:57 <Fractal> I tried to make it portable.
20:21:07 <ianni> cool
20:21:12 <ianni> ill see if it compiles on my mac
20:21:39 <Fractal> It ought to. Apparently it compiles cleanly on PPC mac linux.
20:22:24 <ianni> im still a C newbie - not to mention forth
20:22:32 <Fractal> Linux or OS X?
20:22:35 <ianni> though the latter doesnt take as much talent as actually using it
20:22:36 <Fractal> :)
20:22:40 <ianni> osx
20:22:51 <Fractal> Cool. Let me know how that turns out please.
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20:28:01 <ianni> no poll on BSD...
20:28:07 <ianni> or macosx
20:28:09 <ianni> apparently
20:28:28 <Fractal> Hm... That's odd... I develop it on OpenBSD...
20:28:35 <ianni> oh weird
20:28:40 <Fractal> OK, one sec.
20:28:42 <ianni> yeah, not on darwin
20:28:51 <ianni> im totally clueless to all this stuff
20:29:01 <ianni> well, very clueless
20:29:43 <Fractal> ianni : OK, try opening up the file extprims.c
20:29:48 <Fractal> Then search for poll
20:30:11 <ianni> maybe just use select
20:30:18 <Fractal> Comment out everything inside the NEWPRIM(poll_func) {}
20:30:27 <Fractal> Ya, I'll use select() next release then I guess.
20:31:45 <ianni> heh what are all these, void functions?
20:31:58 <Fractal> No, NEWPRIM is a macro
20:32:12 <Fractal> Just makes it nice and easy to define new primitives.
20:32:14 <ianni> ok - you can define parameters like that? this is weird
20:32:24 <Fractal> Read the section "ADDING PRIMITIVES" in docs/USING
20:32:37 <Fractal> ianni : Well, you can't, exactly. It uses the preprocesser.
20:32:49 <ianni> well, ive gathered that much
20:33:06 <Fractal> Cool. So does it compile?
20:33:31 <ianni> extprims.c:341: `term_raw_on' undeclared (first use in this function)
20:33:43 <ianni> o hwait
20:33:44 <ianni> thats not the first
20:34:00 <ianni> hmmm
20:34:04 <ianni> should i flood ~10 lines?
20:34:22 <Fractal> No.
20:34:35 <Fractal> Are you sure you commented right? Try deleting everything in the poll function.
20:34:49 <ianni> oops.
20:35:05 <Fractal> Ya, notice that there are already comments in the poll function.
20:35:10 <ianni> right ;)
20:35:12 <Fractal> :)
20:35:20 <ianni> I kinda wish /* /**/ */ would work ;)
20:35:33 <ianni> kinda
20:35:39 <Fractal> Ya, nested comments. A few modern languages are starting to support them now.
20:35:53 <Fractal> Haskell, for instance.
20:36:29 <ianni> appears so
20:36:47 <ianni> had to remove -s from CFLAGS
20:36:49 <ianni> dunno wtf that means
20:36:50 <ianni> ;)
20:36:50 <Fractal> So it works except for the lack of poll?
20:37:07 <ianni> [symbiosis:~/Desktop/frugal] ian% ./fgcc
20:37:08 <ianni> fgcc  -  HardCore SoftWare's Frugal GCC Wrapper
20:37:09 <Fractal> That means strip debugging symbols.
20:37:13 <ianni> werd
20:37:17 <ianni> yeah it said:
20:37:25 <Fractal> No, try running frugal instead of fgcc. :)
20:37:26 <ianni> ld: can't use -s with input files containg indirect symbols (output file must contain at least global symbols, for maximum stripping use -x)
20:37:35 <Fractal> Hmm... Odd.
20:37:37 <ianni> yeah, works fine
20:37:40 <Fractal> Nice.
20:37:54 <ianni> Fractal++
20:37:56 <ianni> hehe
20:38:01 <Fractal> OK, next release I'll use select instead of poll. :)
20:38:03 <Fractal> Heh. :)
20:38:26 <ianni> i need 2 do some forth tomorrow
20:38:45 <Fractal> Some of the programs in progs/ won't work for you though, since they use the poll word.
20:38:50 <Fractal> Wait for next release. :)
20:39:01 <ianni> ok
20:39:12 <ianni> or i could just use linux, like where I run IRC ;)
20:39:21 <Fractal> Heh. Or that.
20:39:47 <Fractal> OK, so I'll use select and I'll add OS X to the compatibility listing.
20:39:52 <ianni> it's great to look at readable code
20:40:06 <Fractal> Heh. It's reasonable. :)
20:40:09 <ianni> linux always leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth
20:40:16 <ianni> yeah, s/readable/reasonable
20:40:42 <ianni> its like the OS seems just fine but all the tools and crap can be a mess...
20:40:58 <ianni> granted i have probably been using the wrong ones.
20:41:10 <Fractal> Possibly.
20:42:08 <ianni> i do openstep C... thats how i truely started becoming proficient at all in C
20:42:24 <Fractal> Oh.
20:42:26 <ianni> came from using an IDE ... 
20:42:40 <ianni> before that, enterprise java crap
20:42:43 <Fractal> Well IDEs that are done well can be OK.
20:43:00 <ianni> oh, definitely. it's not at all a bad thing that I c an drag and drop my build phases etc
20:43:11 <ianni> all i do is think about the code.. as long as the ide doesnt hamper me
20:43:30 <ianni> apple's project builder is pretty nice.. integrates with gcc
20:44:13 <ianni> but even using automake has been proving to be tasking 
20:46:03 <Fractal> Ya, I don't particularly like automake... Just complicates the build process.
20:48:06 <ianni> i agree
20:48:12 <ianni> the idea behind it is of course good
20:48:27 <ianni> i think with more C experience i could devise a cleaner solution
20:48:40 <ianni> maybe someone has - some clean way of dynamicizing makefiles
20:48:54 <ianni> there's such messes out there everywhere- :)
20:50:26 <Fractal> Ya.
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