00:00:00 --- log: started forth/02.11.22 00:04:11 --- part: blip left #forth 00:32:48 --- join: XeF4 (xef4@lowfidelity.org) joined #forth 00:59:52 --- quit: lament (benford.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:59:52 --- quit: fridge (benford.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:59:52 --- quit: skylan (benford.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:59:52 --- quit: OrngeTide (benford.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:59:52 --- quit: ChanServ (benford.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:59:52 --- quit: Fractal (benford.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:59:53 --- quit: onetom (benford.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:59:53 --- quit: jhoward (benford.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:59:53 --- quit: Robert (benford.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:59:53 --- quit: proteusguy (benford.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:59:53 --- quit: XeF4 (benford.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 00:59:53 --- quit: ianni (benford.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:00:27 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #forth 01:00:27 --- join: XeF4 (xef4@lowfidelity.org) joined #forth 01:00:27 --- join: lament (~lament@h24-78-145-92.vc.shawcable.net) joined #forth 01:00:27 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@65.191.88.177) joined #forth 01:00:27 --- join: fridge (meldrum@zipperii.zip.com.au) joined #forth 01:00:27 --- join: Fractal (htjon@h24-77-171-228.ok.shawcable.net) joined #forth 01:00:27 --- join: onetom (~tom@novtan.bio.u-szeged.hu) joined #forth 01:00:27 --- join: skylan (sjh@207.164.213.52) joined #forth 01:00:27 --- join: jhoward (~jason@spiderman.spectsoft.com) joined #forth 01:00:27 --- join: Robert (~Robert@robost86.tsps1.freenet6.net) joined #forth 01:00:27 --- join: OrngeTide (orange@65.19.141.250) joined #forth 01:00:27 --- join: ianni (ian@inpuj.net) joined #forth 01:00:27 --- mode: benford.freenode.net set +o ChanServ 01:00:34 --- quit: ianni (benford.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:00:37 --- join: ianni (ian@inpuj.net) joined #forth 01:03:46 --- quit: lament (benford.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 01:04:02 --- part: XeF4 left #forth 01:04:03 --- join: lament (~lament@h24-78-145-92.vc.shawcable.net) joined #forth 03:27:58 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 03:43:14 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 04:55:25 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 05:04:25 --- join: TreyB (~trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth 06:09:17 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 06:13:12 --- join: tathi (~josh@wsip68-15-54-54.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 06:20:10 --- quit: lament ("mental mantle") 06:20:38 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@wsip68-15-54-54.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 06:22:34 --- join: Aardappel (wvo96r@p508C4DC7.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 06:22:34 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 06:28:11 --- join: LuckyPhil (~phowlett@CPE-203-45-170-214.qld.bigpond.net.au) joined #forth 06:29:24 --- part: LuckyPhil left #forth 06:52:33 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (Killed (NickServ (Nickname Enforcement))) 06:52:35 --- join: Serg_p (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 07:16:01 --- quit: fridge ("http://lice.codehack.com") 07:38:31 --- quit: Serg_p () 07:55:56 --- quit: Aardappel (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:59:47 Hm. 09:21:16 --- quit: proteusguy ("Client Exiting") 10:19:55 --- join: lament (~lament@h24-78-145-92.vc.shawcable.net) joined #forth 12:15:20 --- join: jamc (~user@as3-6-8.asp.s.bonet.se) joined #forth 12:23:09 --- join: I440r (~mark4@sdn-ap-005tnnashP0162.dialsprint.net) joined #forth 12:34:48 Hej all :) 12:36:37 hey rob 12:37:44 Hrm. I rewrote some code using the design hints on ultratechnology.com 12:37:57 It really become easier to write and debug. 12:38:00 :) 12:38:02 became* 12:38:12 And shorter, too. 12:38:19 factor factor factor :) 12:38:23 Yes. 12:38:33 One line words only. 12:38:43 yeah, that took me a while to get 12:38:53 really helpful for debugging though 12:39:38 Hehe. In a simple program like this, I can't see how I could avoid getting one-line words. Only possible by using C-style coding ;) 12:40:52 Now I maintain a fairly strict 74-character limit on word length 12:41:08 average is somewhere around 35-40, I think 12:41:46 :) 12:42:16 hmm, how would I compute that? 12:42:17 Including spaces and word name? 12:42:21 --- join: wossname (wossname@HSE-QuebecCity-ppp82248.qc.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 12:42:24 Hi wossname. 12:42:28 * tathi goes to read the man page for grep :) 12:42:33 wossname: How long are _your_ forth words? 12:42:43 tathi: Hehe. If you find out, tell me how to do. 12:42:47 hi robert 12:42:51 very short :) 12:43:12 Give us the exact number! 12:43:48 ~10 mm long on average 12:43:48 grep -h '^:' *.fs | wc 12:43:59 wossname: Yay. 12:44:09 yours? 12:45:06 Hehe. 55 in my latest little code snippet ;) 12:45:19 (Characters, not millimeters :) 12:45:19 evil :/ 12:45:23 oh, not so bad ;D 12:45:47 Heh. 12:46:04 If you fit more than 55 characters in 55mm, you are odd :P 12:46:34 not to mention that you have really good eyesight 12:47:56 Yes... with a 50 lines mode, that gives you like 25 words a screen if you use one blank line between each word. 12:48:39 robert rewrite your PONG game for isforth (from scratch) compare your new code to your old code! 12:49:00 oh - try doing a text mode breakout game with different color bricks and multiple levels :) 12:49:01 yeah, 35 chars -- 36 if you count the long words with assembly language stuff in them. 12:49:45 I440r: Ehm.. Teach me how to use colors! 12:50:31 I440r: I'd love to then. 12:50:32 just do things like blye >bg (read that as BLUE to background) and wihte >fg (to foreground) 12:50:41 Neat :) 12:50:47 >bold (turn bold on) Where can I find the definitions? 12:50:52 in folor.f 12:50:55 erm 12:50:58 color.f even 12:51:27 Ah. 12:51:31 Yeah, thanks. 12:51:44 4 const blue 12:51:44 5 const magenta \ i would call this pink myself 12:51:45 Heh :) 12:51:59 redo pong first tho using your new found better factoring methods :) 12:52:07 dont look at your old code, do it from scratch :) 12:52:40 Sure >:) 12:52:53 btw 12:53:25 Compare my old and new TEA programs, at robert.forthfreak.net/pub/projects/forth/ 12:53:29 tea.f and tea2.f 12:53:35 TEA ? 12:53:40 mmm. tea 12:53:43 Yeah, simple encryption 12:53:45 wossname: :() 12:53:47 er 12:53:48 :) 12:54:10 i cant right now, remind me later and ill look :) 12:54:53 Sure 12:55:02 wossname can compare for you 12:55:08 _Right_? 12:55:09 dude 12:55:15 mad factoring ;D 12:55:32 a bit swamped right now, im doing work for my father (he is trying to get me on the payrole where he works) - i need to fix 3 or 4 things in some code he inherited by monday 12:55:45 erm its NOT factoring thats mad 12:55:48 instead of tabbed in forth lines, i see a number of words on a single line 12:56:16 Huh? 12:56:23 Using Windows? :P 12:56:25 er, a single line per word 12:56:33 Heh, yes. 12:56:33 ;) 12:57:06 erm i dont think thats good because the only way to comment that style of coding is to interleave the comments with the code 12:57:11 code code code code code 12:57:18 comment comment comment comment comment 12:57:19 code code code code code 12:57:19 comment comment comment comment comment 12:57:20 code code code code code 12:57:21 comment comment comment comment comment 12:57:27 fragmented 12:57:31 code comment 12:57:32 code comment 12:57:32 code comment 12:57:34 comments? :D 12:57:34 much better 12:58:08 * I440r slaps wossname arround with an isforth manual 12:58:09 :) 12:58:24 Ehm. 12:58:30 Actually, I don't use comments here :P 12:59:02 And, erm. I440r's style is good when others need to understand every single fetch and store, but..well..I just rely on my word naming skills ;) 12:59:10 yeah, you can put explanations of the tricky parts in another file 12:59:50 robert theres absolutely NO such thing as self documenting code. anyone who thinks so needs to take a look at someone elses "self commenting code" 13:00:08 I440r: I don't think there isn't, either... 13:00:17 I440r: I just mean I'm too damn lazy to comment :P 13:00:39 exactly 13:00:48 you also used to be too lazy to factor right 13:00:54 its ok, youll grow out of it :) 13:00:59 I find when looking at other people's code I just want an overview of how it works 13:01:06 line-by-line comments are just distracting 13:01:21 ditto 13:01:44 not if they are out of the way to the right of the code 13:01:47 code 13:01:48 code 13:01:48 code 13:01:49 you not only have to read all the comments, you also have to figure out which ones are important and which ones are just bullshit 13:01:56 I mostly want documentation on what's going on in general, where I can find the code that does a certain thing, and how the data structures are used 13:01:57 jsut scan down the code column, ignore the comment column 13:02:29 if you ignore the comments, then what good are they? 13:02:47 I440r: or, you could put the comments in another file, and have your editor show that file on the right :) 13:03:07 IsForth is one of the places where I do want to check every single word sometimes. 13:03:25 If it were some text editor or whatever, I wouldn't. 13:03:35 herk no. "shaddow blocks" are a big mistake too 13:03:48 if you have to go "hunting" for the comments you just not going to bother 13:04:14 I440r: it's not hunting 13:04:42 the commens and teh code should be right there in plain view ALWAYS 13:04:54 but the comments should be unobtrusive 13:04:56 I440r: problem with that is then your code doesn't all fit on the screen 13:05:03 interleaving comments with code is VERY VERY intrusive 13:05:17 makes it very difficult to scan the code because you have to keep skipping over the comments 13:05:23 I have been very pleased to have my entire forth program fit on the screen in recent forth programming projects 13:05:43 but a vertical coding style with the coments off to the right of the code doesnt do this to you 13:06:04 For example, in my Pong game, I have words like "move", "move-x", "bounce-x".. That's enough for me to get an overview. 13:06:11 if there's a comment for every line, all aligned, then you're bound to be getting a lot of garbage 13:06:22 I440r: just have your editor color the comments differently. I don't read stuff in the comments color when I'm trying to read code. 13:07:37 Herkamire syntax highlighting is good but not every editor supports it. if you rely on the editor to sort out what you want to look at by colorizing it different its fine for YOU but when someone else looks at your code its going to be a visually cluttered jumbled up mess of a gordian knot 13:08:02 I440r: speak for yourself 13:08:38 i do. i take great pains to make sure that my source code is readable in ANY editor 13:41:49 --- join: fridge (meldrum@zipperii.zip.com.au) joined #forth 13:50:47 --- join: proteusguy (~username@65.191.88.177) joined #forth 14:04:21 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 14:12:15 --- quit: lament ("mental mantle") 14:15:18 Hm. 14:15:32 Is this a good alternative to "case"? 14:16:09 : test dup a = if alt1 exit then dup b = if alt2 exit then ... ; 14:16:40 * Robert thinks about one-liners and "case". 14:17:04 Maybe I could just put everything on one line, so the code looks pretty ;-) 14:17:12 (That is, with "case") 14:19:58 not realy 14:20:13 basically thats what MOST forth case statements end up compiling 14:20:16 very inefficient 14:20:33 isforths case: compiles a table of options and a table of vectors. 14:21:37 --- quit: Herkamire ("yo mama!") 14:27:52 bbl... 14:27:56 --- quit: I440r ("Reality Strikes Again!") 14:36:58 --- join: Kitanin (~Kitanin@SCF61185.ab.hsia.telus.net) joined #forth 15:14:28 --- quit: jamc () 15:14:28 --- quit: Kitanin (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 15:39:16 --- quit: ianni (benford.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:39:16 --- quit: proteusguy (benford.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:39:16 --- quit: wossname (benford.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:39:16 --- quit: TreyB (benford.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:39:16 --- quit: OrngeTide (benford.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:39:16 --- quit: skylan (benford.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:39:16 --- quit: ChanServ (benford.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:39:16 --- quit: fridge (benford.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:39:16 --- quit: onetom (benford.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:39:16 --- quit: jhoward (benford.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:39:16 --- quit: Fractal (benford.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 15:39:16 --- quit: Robert (benford.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/02.11.22