00:00:00 --- log: started forth/02.11.18 00:03:54 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00:04:03 --- join: proteusguy (~username@65.191.88.177) joined #forth 00:11:03 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 01:15:11 Fair enough/ 01:15:54 fair ?? 01:16:22 I mean... That is good by me. 01:16:33 Do you have a URL to your example? 01:16:37 Or will you paste it into IRC? 01:17:08 http://cryptomancer.chat.ru , i /msg'd it 01:17:26 +old version 01:18:14 oops, forgot to give email on page, will fix tomorrow 01:18:40 404 Not Found 01:19:13 Zaproshennyj vami dokument ne najden. 01:20:24 damn, i see it from click on link in chan, so no even typo possible 01:20:43 today version, not from proxy logs 01:20:58 s/logs/cache/ 01:21:25 :( 01:21:44 http://cryptomancer.chat.ru/soko1ln.zip 01:22:14 try! 01:22:50 * Serg_Penguin can't dcc because of firewall 01:23:19 404 01:23:48 try to dcc 01:24:01 Ok,OK 01:24:12 Thanks. 01:24:21 got ? 01:24:46 i see like it dunno start 01:24:54 so gimme u'r email 01:25:20 Ya, hold on one second. 01:25:47 Sigh... Ok: doug@hypervivid.com 01:29:52 bombs away 01:30:24 OK 01:30:29 and dunno post u'r @ unmangled if u dont wanna sink in spam 01:30:57 got it ? 01:30:57 Ya, good idea. Although I'm sure it doesn't matter much in #forth 01:31:16 got it ? = got filez ? 01:32:20 Hold on. 01:32:29 brb 01:33:44 OK I got it. 01:37:18 Ah yes. Not bad job of refactoring. Although, a few of your definitions would be more understandable if they *were* spead out on lines. 01:37:35 And commented better. For instance, what's ctrl ? 01:37:53 And spr. isn't exactly readable... 01:38:41 Oh, and another thing, you're putting in MS-DOS ^M linefeeds... :( 01:40:13 But ya, it looks nice. 01:44:01 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:47:09 Hrm. 01:47:51 "Dokument ne najden"... bleh. His one-line Forth seems to have dissapeared. 01:47:53 err 01:47:57 one-liner sokoban* 01:48:42 Ya, I know. 01:50:58 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 01:51:20 mega sorry, power lossage 01:52:55 Hi there. 01:53:02 hi 01:53:04 10:52 < Robert> "Dokument ne najden"... bleh. His one-line Forth seems to have dissapeared. 01:53:38 fractal seen same glitch, but i _can_ access it ! 01:54:34 so msg me u'r mail and i'll give it to u 01:54:40 hang it on fserve :) 01:54:56 so what about fserving some stuff ? 01:58:52 Hrm 01:59:01 Why isn't it on the page, as you told us it would be? :) 02:00:10 it is where but seems inaccessible outside RU 02:00:40 i uploaded it and _do_ see new page 02:02:17 Heh. Inaccessible outside russia, now THAT sounds odd :) 02:02:40 gimme ur mail and i send u 02:02:50 can't dcc cauze of firewall 02:03:06 Send it to robost@telia.com 02:03:10 So I can check it when I get home. 02:05:24 bombs away 02:05:26 Got to go soon.... 02:05:36 Spasibo :) 02:05:45 I'll have to leave soon. 02:05:48 See you. 02:06:11 cu l8r... 02:24:48 --- quit: Soap` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 02:31:39 brb 02:31:47 hey 02:31:53 11-18 10:54:07 < Serg_Penguin> fractal seen same glitch, but i _can_ access it ! 02:31:54 11-18 10:48:26 < Robert> one-liner sokoban* 02:32:20 Hey onetom. 02:33:08 http://cryptomancer.chat.ru/soko1ln.zip doesnt work 4 me either 02:33:35 Yeah, you have to have it emailed to you... 02:33:40 And it's a DOS program, so... 02:33:52 You may not be able to use it. 02:34:43 so write "emulator", redef'ing / deferring @ ! c@ c! etc.... 02:35:15 hmm, maybe 'll do so to port gp-forth proggies to linux.... 02:35:55 but soko is damn straightforward and can be easily ported 02:36:19 * Serg_Penguin will give a crash-test to isForth by porting this thing 02:36:53 hermantom@dunasoft.com 02:37:14 Serg_Penguin : You don't have to redefine memory access words for unix. 02:37:22 gotta go 02:37:27 Later. 02:40:35 gone to hermantom@freemail.hu 02:40:36 duping to hermantom@dunasoft.com 03:42:42 --- join: lament (~lament@h24-78-145-92.vc.shawcable.net) joined #forth 03:48:37 --- quit: lament (benford.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:48:40 --- join: lament (~lament@h24-78-145-92.vc.shawcable.net) joined #forth 03:59:16 --- quit: lament (benford.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 03:59:38 --- join: lament (~lament@h24-78-145-92.vc.shawcable.net) joined #forth 04:42:48 --- join: nDuff (~cduffy@cs666889-197.austin.rr.com) joined #forth 04:43:05 hi 05:52:34 --- quit: lament (benford.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 05:53:14 --- join: lament (~lament@h24-78-145-92.vc.shawcable.net) joined #forth 05:59:57 Forth Operating System 05:59:59 CURRENT STATUS - 6/24/96 06:00:10 it doesn't look too current if you ask me 06:03:05 what forth OS ? 06:12:47 fridge: but it works if u r talking about forthos.org 06:13:13 fridge: & i plan 2 start 2 continue its development 06:13:35 or @least id like 2 use it 06:14:04 http://www.bcpl.net/~nbuck/status.html 06:16:53 I was just looking at the various forth OS's out there 06:22:02 just try forthos.org 06:22:15 its reasonably complere 06:22:16 te 06:23:15 is it kinda like Enth 06:23:16 ? 06:28:51 ... roughly, ye 06:28:52 s 06:32:12 really, i cant even call it OS 06:32:44 does it have binary executable modules, and what is their format :( ? 06:34:07 --- join: tathi (~josh@ip68-9-58-207.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 06:34:10 Serg_Penguin, VSTa (on which forthOS is based) has binary executable support in the libc; its default libc supports an extended a.out variant (forget the name) with just 'bout all the features of ELF but less space. 06:34:36 Serg_Penguin, of course, I don't know if all that made it into the forth version. 06:35:13 nDuff: forthos runs just on bare iron well too 06:35:29 i meant enth, not vsta 06:35:42 Serg_Penguin, ahh. 06:37:08 do any forth based OS have even minimal networking support? 06:37:29 i had never seen 06:51:23 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 07:26:19 --- quit: lament ("Client Exiting") 07:46:40 About the Forth OS discussion here earlier, I would like to develop a simple one to use for experimenting with hardware, without having to deal with Linux drivers. 07:46:55 (Hardware, such as interfacing microcontrollers etc.) 08:00:28 --- join: I440r (~mark4@sdn-ap-002tnnashP0081.dialsprint.net) joined #forth 08:28:06 --- join: randolm (~randolm@aetos.it.teithe.gr) joined #forth 08:41:05 hi randolm 08:41:09 you a forth coder ? 08:42:02 i'm interested 08:42:24 but you've seen me before. i'm wossname 08:58:16 --- quit: randolm ("CGI:IRC 0.4.3 [EOF]") 09:00:50 ohh hehe 09:00:54 i knew that :P 09:02:36 --- quit: proteusguy ("Client Exiting") 09:02:37 I440r: would you be interested in a ppc linux port of isforth? 09:02:52 (I got bored at work the other day and made macros.1 work with as) :) 09:03:05 yes 09:03:07 very 09:03:08 The passengers on a small plane are quite surprised when the pilots arrive. 09:03:08 The pilots walk up the aisle, both wearing dark glasses. One has a 09:03:08 seeing-eye dog, the other is tapping his way with a white-tipped cane. 09:03:08 The cockpit door closes, the engines start up. The plane moves faster and 09:03:08 faster down the runway. People by the windows realize they're heading right 09:03:10 towards the water at the end of the runway. 09:03:12 Panic ensues. Screams fill the air. At that very moment, the plane lifts 09:03:14 smoothly into the air. The passengers relax and laugh a little sheepishly. 09:03:16 Up in the cockpit, the co-pilot turns to the pilot. "Y'know, Bob," he says. 09:03:18 "One day they're going to scream too late, and we're all gonna die." 09:03:20 :) 09:03:22 watch out for that flood :) 09:03:41 heh 09:04:17 im working on the decompiler but getting the damned thing to indent the way i like is a BITCH:) 09:05:01 thing is, I don't know how many people on PPC use linux rather than MacOS X 09:05:13 on thing tho, once i can metacompile theres going to be a HUGE change in the way vocabularies are implemented :) 09:05:25 ever vocab is going to have its own SEPERATE memory 09:05:33 that makes sense 09:06:18 im going to have the ability to completely discard entier vocabularies (code and headers) when i turnkey 09:06:28 right 09:07:14 I440r: lolll. twas a nice joke 09:08:26 :) 09:11:16 tathi: I run both =) 09:12:13 fridge: well, if I440r ever gets around to figuring out BSD... 09:14:03 i got so much to do and its kinda draggin me down to do it all myself... 09:14:28 I440r: dont worry. u have time ;) 09:14:41 debugger (incouding single stepping coded defs), assembler, metacompiler 09:14:52 sockets stuff (close to done) 09:15:35 heh. I was just kidding. 09:16:23 and then i gotta get it all to work in fbsd too :P 09:18:16 I440r: Hehe. Based on personal experience? ;) 09:18:19 (The airplane joke) 09:19:50 robert when i was coming out of norway after my holiday there the pilot was going in for a landing and just before touching down he though better of it and took off again to circle round for a BETTER go :) 09:19:54 heh 09:20:17 when sailing there the engines on the boat died and we drifted for 4 hours while they fixed them :P 09:20:17 heh 09:20:56 I440r: :D 09:21:13 Nice. 10:45:24 --- join: futhin (thin@h68-146-166-145.cg.shawcable.net) joined #forth 10:46:18 fu thin chu! 10:46:45 howdy 10:47:23 did you proofread those help files and write the help file browser yet ??? :) 10:48:15 dunno :{ 10:49:00 ugh 10:49:04 get on with it 10:49:08 * I440r taps his foot 10:49:36 * futhin begins tap dancing 10:51:50 * I440r sits back and watches futhin trip over his 2 left feet 10:52:14 my notepad can't display unix files properly bah 10:52:30 its not the laptop 10:52:41 its the damned disfunctional OS you have on it 10:52:43 :P 10:53:11 i'm looking at QUIT 10:53:27 you said "Isforth's version of C's main. blahblah" 10:53:33 and ? 10:53:57 right 10:54:13 ' my-applications-main-entry-point-word is quit 10:54:21 turnkey my-application 10:54:22 futhin, using Windows? Use wordpad instead of notepad, or better yet get a real editor (emacs or vim) 10:54:58 nDuff i didnt see you there heh are you someone i know using a different nick or have i not seen you before :) 11:01:06 I440r, we probably haven't met. 11:01:18 cool - and your a forth coder ? 11:01:39 not really -- considering it as an embedded scripting language. 11:01:54 it would be perfect 11:02:07 embedded in what ? 11:02:26 * I440r does embedded control (or i used to, ive not worked since august 2001) :( 11:05:09 a fork of VSTa, an experimental OS. One of the developers asked about finding a scripting language with an interpreter small enough to be cache-locked -- and forth appears to be the primary (only?) candidate meeting that condition. 11:06:14 * nDuff isn't himself entirely clear as to the point of embedding a scripting-language interpreter into a (currently very tiny) microkernel OS, and indends to ask said developer as to the reasoning at some point 11:07:47 i would just make the embedded application 100% forth. 11:08:03 this would make debugging and development alot easier 11:08:09 I440r, for deeply embedded apps, I can see that as a good choice 11:08:27 nDuff i can :) 11:08:39 how DEEPLY embedded 11:08:46 what uc ? 11:09:41 I440r, but not everything's quite so deeply embedded... folks doing a palmtop device, for instance, would benefit much from the ability to reuse the software bundled in QPE; folks doing a network router would benefit from being able to reuse an already-available web server for the control software; etc. 11:10:19 qpe? 11:10:31 futhin, the Qt Palmtop Environment 11:10:47 nDuff you got a choice. use someone elses code and LIVE with his bugs or develop your own miminal web server in forth. development in forth is so FUCKING fast that having to develope from scratch is almost ZERO overhead 11:11:22 i find that one spends a HUGE ammount of time trying to figure out how to get someone elses library/code to work the way i want it to 11:11:23 there are already some small web servers coded in forth 11:11:40 yes coding a web server is NOT that difficult actually 11:11:41 I440r, fine and well until one's making a settop box whose required applications include the ability to render HTML 11:12:08 nDuff ill be doing a web CLIENT in isforth eventually too 11:12:28 nduff: forth to us is like C to others.. its a general purpose language and is suitable for use for any problem 11:12:38 tho i will definatly need the debugger to do that 11:12:53 im currently working on the decompiler that the debugger will use 11:13:39 2 much words, not enough code... 11:15:11 nDuff is this a personal project or one for work ? 11:15:28 i440r developed isforth FAST, as well as windowing/tui code and sockets.. he did the bulk of his work in 2 months 11:18:03 its been slow going since then tho because therse so much to do and im trying to do it all at the same time heh 11:18:22 a minimal forth compiler/interpreter can be coded in under 24 hours 11:18:29 specially on a small embedded uC 11:24:27 --- mode: ChanServ set +o futhin 11:24:58 --- topic: set to 'Forth will NEVER be universally accepted. Haha, up yours lamers | IsForth: runs on linux, coded in x86 asm - http://isforth.clss.net | official forth sites: http://www.ultratechnology.com/forth.htm & http://www.colorforth.com' by futhin 11:26:35 --- quit: nDuff (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 11:40:34 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 11:41:24 will most recent Mac software run (even if unusably slowly) on a PPC604? 11:45:12 futhin: i was talking 2 an mplayer user & bugfix committer C coder last nite 11:45:56 futhin: he hasnt accepted the idea 2 write the top of mplayer in 4th 11:47:13 futhin: tho he promised that if i produce some usable code & its really as shining as i told he gonna learn it & use it 11:51:40 good, get to it :PPP 11:51:50 even u talk lots :P 11:52:05 everyone on this chan talks 11:52:14 * futhin wonders who is the most productive person on this chan :) 11:52:26 maybe orngetide? robert? 11:52:37 futhin did you know thers a thin and a thefox on ircnet ? :) 11:52:58 i440r: there was a thin guy that came to freenode once or twice 11:53:31 :) 11:53:40 we should have productivity competitions 11:54:23 something to get us coding and showing our accomplishments 11:54:26 dunno 11:54:53 * futhin is off to figure out object databases & forth 11:55:17 grrr!!! 11:55:19 we need a forth IDE!!! 11:55:26 integrated development environment 11:55:49 the forth interpreter sucks, and so does editors! 11:55:51 thats what the debugger and editor are in forth :P 11:55:52 * futhin growls 11:55:59 nah 11:56:05 the editors aren't interactive 11:56:33 somebody stole "Starting Forth" from my local library :( 11:56:42 dont need to be 11:58:37 i440r: forth needs an IDE that takes advantage of forth's features and lets you code faster and better with less trouble.. an old idea of mine is to have an editor that takes up 70% of the top part of the screen, and the bottom part of the screen is the forth interpreter.. so you type stuff in the bottom part, and when you want to save a word to the editor after testing it, you can do so.. 11:58:50 it could save all the words automatically 11:59:03 and let you pick out words you want to keep or just track your redefinitions 11:59:04 dunno 11:59:08 it could be quite elegant 11:59:20 no - that would suck 11:59:27 the editor needs ALL of the screen 11:59:29 oh and you've used this editor??!?!?! 11:59:33 no 11:59:34 it doesn 11:59:48 it's like a line editor 11:59:56 except it displays what you've saved 12:00:07 and you can use the interactive nature of forth 12:00:10 you can build tiny words 12:00:12 and test them 12:00:18 and build words ontop of the tested words 12:00:22 that's the TRUE advantage 12:01:47 i440r: why did you make a file for each word instead of putting them all in one file ? 12:02:13 all you need to do is have the ability to highlight a definition in the editor and tell forth to compile the highlighted word 12:02:54 Good evening :) 12:02:56 are you gonna put blocks in isforth? 12:03:10 eventually 12:04:07 what am i supposed to do when i want to do a database and i want to only load the necessary information and save out whatever i don't need every now and then 12:11:23 i dunno 12:31:49 --- join: wossname (wossname@HSE-QuebecCity-ppp81281.qc.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 12:51:37 I've tried the COLOR.COM bootdisk on 3 machines, and none of them work =( 12:52:53 fridge: just like in the case of mine 12:53:24 & it even wont work under bochs or vmware 12:53:36 3.1 12:56:37 does it make the screen go black or just sit there with the floppy light on? 12:57:11 one 1 of the 3 machines the screen goes black on the other two, it just sits there with all the BIOS information still on screen, and reading from the disk 12:58:57 fridge: what video cards do you have? S3? 12:59:35 one is matrox, one is Nvidia, the one that goes black is a SiS (unsure of model) 13:00:16 Ehm. 13:00:35 fridge: it worked 4 me w an S3 Trio 64V+ iirc 13:00:37 Does anyone how IsForth does a JMP to the start of the current word? 13:00:43 (Instead of 'recurse') 13:01:20 onetom: what generation of processor are you running it on? 13:01:36 pI 13:01:56 it goes black on the PII machine, all the PIII's just sit there... 13:02:44 fridge: ignore it. its awkward & undocumented 13:02:59 try enth/flux instead if u really wanna experiment w some color 4th 13:03:16 or try forthos.org 13:03:41 --- join: neobrat (~~jeff_tkd@h-64-105-21-62.DNVTCO56.covad.net) joined #forth 13:03:50 'lo all 13:04:26 Robert: probably only I440r knows it. btw, : word cond if exit then word ; ? 13:04:27 how are your cubes? 13:04:44 they are still spinning :) 13:04:49 onetom: No... 13:04:58 onetom: Doesn't work, I think. 13:06:14 onetom: flux seems a little better maintained 13:16:02 --- quit: fridge ("http://lice.codehack.com") 13:16:48 --- quit: neobrat () 13:16:52 --- quit: wossname ("running from daddy") 13:27:47 --- join: wossname (wossname@HSE-QuebecCity-ppp81281.qc.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 14:17:24 --- join: fridge (meldrum@zipperii.zip.com.au) joined #forth 16:49:25 --- quit: wossname ("^-------___-----__-------%#@(@!$") 19:05:25 --- quit: TreyB () 19:06:41 --- quit: futhin ("latez") 20:11:41 --- join: futhin (thin@h68-146-166-145.cg.shawcable.net) joined #forth 20:16:46 --- quit: futhin (benford.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20:16:46 --- quit: I440r (benford.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 20:17:10 --- join: I440r (~mark4@sdn-ap-002tnnashP0081.dialsprint.net) joined #forth 20:33:56 --- join: Troakian (troakian@dyn1.comox.island.net) joined #forth 20:34:33 hey? 20:35:17 niin? 20:35:33 sup XeF4? 20:35:44 do I know you? 20:35:51 nope 20:36:01 I a Forth newbie 20:36:05 looking for a place to get started 20:39:04 can anyone give me a bit of information on compilers etc. 20:39:18 ? 20:39:22 what do you want to know? 20:40:56 just a bit of background 20:41:13 and where I can find a good tutorial (I have one that's not bad) 20:41:31 what compilers exist? 20:41:58 for PC? pygmy forth, eforth, bigforth(I use this one), pfe, gforth(don't recommend it, but it is at least in wide use) 20:42:06 gforth does include a tutorial and if I remember, do does pfe 20:42:14 ok 20:42:24 you running Win or X? 20:42:25 and there is isforth developed by i440r from this channel 20:42:35 dos,linux 20:43:02 k 20:43:26 I would use linux all the time if they a complete Windows Backhasher/Emulator existed 20:43:35 Backhasher? 20:43:35 I use too many windows apps to make it pointfull 20:44:22 converts Windows-compatable compiled code into recognizable Linux compiled code 20:44:38 recompiler 20:44:53 there is a Win32 layer thingy for *nix called Wine, but I haven't used it for about 3 years 20:45:20 www.winehq.com 20:45:29 yah, it's not complete 20:45:37 but, nothing like that ever is 20:45:54 so, what do you use Forth for? 20:46:28 softsynths, realtime graphical stuff, etc 20:46:35 koo koo 20:49:56 --- join: lament (~lament@h24-78-145-92.vc.shawcable.net) joined #forth 21:16:12 hi 21:16:22 well isforth now has a decompiler :) 21:16:50 might still have some bugs in it and i know there are some words it will hickup on 21:17:11 need to see if i can fix that.. not easy tho 22:08:00 --- quit: lament ("Client Exiting") 22:14:52 --- quit: I440r ("Reality Strikes Again!") 22:28:34 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 22:31:05 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (Client Quit) 22:48:13 --- quit: Troakian (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:19:07 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 23:27:43 --- nick: Serg_Penguin -> BSDnewbie 23:48:46 --- quit: BSDnewbie () 23:54:04 --- quit: Robert (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/02.11.18