00:00:00 --- log: started forth/02.11.09
00:07:21 --- join: pyromania (~pyromania@dialup-105.159.220.203.acc01-high-pen.comindico.com.au) joined #forth
00:17:38 --- quit: Grant (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:25:41 --- quit: thin (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
00:33:07 --- nick: pyromania -> Grant
00:46:44 --- quit: Soap` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
02:23:28 <Robert> Hi all.
02:24:11 <Robert> thin: (In case you read the log), It is blueish... I gues it's CuCl2.
04:00:30 --- quit: Robert (benford.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
04:00:30 --- quit: Grant (benford.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
04:00:31 --- quit: XeF4 (benford.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
04:01:15 --- quit: ChanServ (benford.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
04:01:15 --- quit: OrngeTide (benford.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
04:01:15 --- quit: Fractal (benford.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
04:01:15 --- quit: onetom (benford.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
04:01:15 --- quit: skylan (benford.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
04:01:15 --- quit: TreyB (benford.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
04:02:38 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #forth
04:02:38 --- join: OrngeTide (orange@65.19.141.250) joined #forth
04:02:38 --- join: Fractal (uaupyflu@h24-77-171-228.ok.shawcable.net) joined #forth
04:02:38 --- join: skylan (sjh@Riverview65.tbaytel.net) joined #forth
04:02:38 --- join: onetom (~tom@novtan.bio.u-szeged.hu) joined #forth
04:02:38 --- mode: benford.freenode.net set +o ChanServ
04:02:55 --- join: Grant (~pyromania@dialup-105.159.220.203.acc01-high-pen.comindico.com.au) joined #forth
04:02:55 --- join: XeF4 (xef4@lowfidelity.org) joined #forth
04:02:55 --- join: Robert (~Robert@robost86.tsps1.freenet6.net) joined #forth
04:38:09 --- quit: Fractal (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
06:17:32 --- join: pyromania (~pyromania@dialup-185.129.221.203.acc02-high-pen.comindico.com.au) joined #forth
06:24:26 --- quit: Grant (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
06:27:25 --- nick: pyromania -> Grant
09:08:20 --- quit: skylan (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
09:13:43 --- join: skylan (sjh@Rockcliffe94.tbaytel.net) joined #forth
11:38:56 * OrngeTide yawns.
11:43:56 <Robert> Hi :)
11:48:35 <OrngeTide> hullo!
11:52:13 --- join: TreyB (~trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth
11:52:50 <Robert> Hi TreyB.
12:04:24 --- quit: TreyB (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
12:08:51 --- join: TreyB (~trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth
12:15:57 --- quit: Grant (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
13:28:30 --- join: pyromania (~pyromania@dialup-183.128.221.203.acc02-high-pen.comindico.com.au) joined #forth
13:33:34 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@ip68-9-70-59.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth
13:36:22 <Robert> Hi there, Herkamire :)
13:36:26 --- quit: TreyB (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
13:37:48 <Herkamire> hey Robert :)
13:54:55 --- quit: Herkamire ("gotta go")
14:05:29 <pyromania> Markkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk
14:15:33 <Robert> Hm?
14:15:40 <Robert> He's not here :)
14:46:35 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@ip-216-25-202-172.vienna.va.fcc.net) joined #forth
14:46:40 <TheBlueWizard> hiya all
14:52:07 <pyromania> mmmm okey Robert :D
14:53:47 <TheBlueWizard> hiya pyromania
14:54:24 <pyromania> Hey TheBlueWizard
14:54:25 <pyromania> :)
14:55:28 <TheBlueWizard> :)
14:58:36 --- nick: pyromania -> Grant
15:06:09 --- join: proteusguy (~username@65.191.88.177) joined #forth
15:06:39 <proteusguy> Robert: you out there?
15:06:54 <TheBlueWizard> hiya proteusguy
15:07:28 <proteusguy> Hey BlueWiz...
15:10:27 <Robert> Hi.
15:10:35 <Robert> I'm..."out here", yes.
15:10:45 <proteusguy> Hey Robert - got a reply from my hardware guy...
15:11:14 <proteusguy> Turns out the AtMels have multi-plexed lines for addr/data. Let me cut/paste his msg....
15:11:48 <proteusguy> Greetings.  Glad the wireless worked out.  I suppose your new
15:11:49 <proteusguy> programming position is in the lounge chair by the pool.  Anyhow, I seem
15:11:49 <proteusguy> to recall that the AVR chip uses multiplexed address/data lines.   There
15:11:49 <proteusguy> will be an A/D (named something else) pin which will select between
15:11:49 <proteusguy> address and data.  Basically, the address appears on the buss, a pulse
15:11:49 <proteusguy> on the A/D pin latches it into an external latch, then data appears on
15:11:51 <proteusguy> the buss.  Ram chips are available with the latch built in if you prefer
15:11:53 <proteusguy> not to have glue logic.  I will check the AVR datasheet later to make
15:11:55 <proteusguy> sure. 
15:12:09 <proteusguy> FYI, I took a look at some Atmel AVR parts.  The ones I looked at all
15:12:09 <proteusguy> have multiplexed data busses.  The address latch signal is called ALE.
15:12:09 <proteusguy> The lower 8 bits are multiplexed address/data and the upper address bits
15:12:09 <proteusguy> are address only.  Your friend will need an 8 bit latch, something like
15:12:09 <proteusguy> a 74hc393, to latch the lower 8 address bits. 
15:12:39 <proteusguy> sorry bout that - didn't think each lf would be a new entry.. anyway - I think your answers are there.
15:18:18 <Robert> Thanks :)
15:18:58 <Robert> I've implemented that machineForth-like VM for AVR now, btw.
15:27:10 <proteusguy> Cool - I'm gonna have to buy me the kit and start playing myself.
15:27:32 <proteusguy> So does that make sense to you re: multi-plexed lines?
15:27:55 --- join: TreyB (~trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth
15:38:09 <Robert> proteusguy: Well, I'm not quite sure how to connect everything.
15:38:16 <Robert> proteusguy: However, I'll see if I can find something useful.
15:38:26 <Robert> proteusguy: Someone has to have done this before :)
15:39:39 <proteusguy> Its pretty simple stuff - especially if you get the SRAM that has the latched support built in.
15:40:20 --- join: divgrad (~wer@81.25.34.75) joined #forth
15:41:43 <Robert> proteusguy: I guess so.
15:51:09 --- join: Xuz (aemerson@bgp01132867bgs.ypeast01.mi.comcast.net) joined #forth
15:51:12 * Xuz waves
15:51:58 <Robert> Hi :)
15:52:20 <Xuz> How're you?
15:52:34 <Robert> Just fine :)
15:55:41 --- quit: proteusguy ("Client Exiting")
16:11:41 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@ip68-9-70-59.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth
16:12:54 --- quit: divgrad ()
16:22:59 <onetom> do u know the mplayer for linux?
16:23:06 <Xuz> Yes.
16:23:20 <onetom> nobody else? ;)
16:23:29 <TheBlueWizard> gotta go...bye all
16:23:41 * Xuz would be surprised if nobody else knew it.
16:23:50 <onetom> well, i met w the 4 core developers of it this day
16:24:01 --- part: TheBlueWizard left #forth
16:24:16 <onetom> there was a linux conference @ budapest
16:24:46 * Xuz ooohs
16:24:49 <onetom> & i traveled back 2 my home city w 2 of them
16:25:06 <onetom> & of course ive introduced 4th 2 them
16:25:09 <Xuz> Cool.  All the Linux people owe them :)
16:25:12 <Xuz> Oh?
16:25:15 <Xuz> They seem interested?
16:25:15 <onetom> yp
16:25:19 <onetom> yup
16:25:33 <onetom> al3x seems 2 b the most interested
16:25:50 <onetom> arpi is a bit scared yet though
16:26:04 * Xuz tsks, "Scared?"
16:26:07 * Xuz hmmms
16:26:24 <onetom> but probably im goin 2 try 2 make alex fall in love w 4th
16:26:36 * Xuz grins
16:26:38 <onetom> #implement a developer console into mplayer
16:26:38 <Xuz> Careful.
16:26:50 <onetom> s/#/&
16:26:51 <Xuz> I used to think Forth was the single most wonderful language in the entire world. . . 
16:26:58 <Xuz> And now I think it's only the second most wonderful :)
16:27:05 <onetom> naaah
16:27:10 <onetom> which 1 is the 1st 1?
16:27:37 * onetom drowns Xuz if he says java ;)
16:27:50 <Xuz> Scheme.
16:27:53 * Xuz hates Java.
16:28:00 <onetom> pheww... ;)
16:28:02 * Xuz refuses to have anything to do with bondage and discipline languages.
16:28:32 <onetom> Xuz has escaped from being drown
16:28:41 <onetom> ed
16:30:48 * Xuz laughs
16:30:55 * Xuz grins, "You should look at Scheme.'
16:32:44 <onetom> k, i will
16:33:08 <onetom> but its more complicated 2 implement, isnt it?
16:33:28 <onetom> & it has a more serious syntax, doesnt it?
16:34:29 <Xuz> Not really.
16:34:31 <Xuz> It has. . . .  
16:34:34 <Xuz> It has a BIT more syntax.
16:34:37 <Xuz> But only kind of :)
16:35:15 <Xuz> It uses 'macros' to implement it, which are not unlike using immediate words.
16:36:26 <onetom> http://cs.wwc.edu/~cs_dept/KU/PR/Scheme.html
16:36:32 <onetom> it doesnt seem bad
16:36:52 * Xuz likes it because (1) anonymous stuff is easier.
16:37:19 <Xuz> Being able to get an anonymous create/does> would be soooo nice :)
16:37:34 <Xuz> And (2) You can get rid of things when you're done with them :)
16:37:39 <Xuz> More easily.
16:37:43 <Xuz> That and continuations.
16:38:18 <onetom> ?
16:38:28 <onetom> get rid? what do u mean by that?
16:40:37 <Xuz> Freeing memory.
16:45:56 <onetom> ahm i c now
16:46:02 <onetom> its like lisp
16:46:11 <Herkamire> I figure I'll have some sort of memory manager akin to malloc/free in my forth system
16:46:33 <onetom> well its also a clever lang. i agree
16:47:01 <onetom> Herkamire: did u got my jabber msgs about the elevator problem?
16:47:50 <Xuz> Oh.  They have some memory management stuff in ANS.  *yich*
16:49:33 <onetom> ANS/nonANS not a big diff in the case of a simple mem manager
16:52:59 <Herkamire> onetom: yeah
16:55:55 * Xuz hmms.
16:56:01 * Xuz hasn't eaten in over 16 hours.
16:56:07 * Xuz ponders rectifying this
16:57:47 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@65.191.88.177) joined #forth
16:59:46 <Robert> Hi proteusguy.
17:00:43 <proteusguy> Hey Robert - just trying to wrap up some python coding...
17:07:41 <Robert> :)
17:07:48 * Robert does some AVR assembly.
17:38:44 <Xuz> What is AVR?
17:52:07 <Robert> A neat little microcontroller.
17:52:13 <Robert> http://www.atmel.com/
18:12:57 * Xuz has always wondered.  What is the difference between a 'microcontroller' and one of the 8-bit microprocessors of the days of yore?
18:14:55 <XeF4> what is neat about it?
18:32:52 <Robert> Hm.
18:33:14 <Robert> A microcontroller nowadays usually has both some user-usable EEPROM and RAM.
18:33:35 <Robert> And a built-in ROM for programs.
18:33:41 <Robert> It's got a nice instruction set.
18:33:44 <Robert> Many features.
18:33:50 <Robert> Not very expensive.
18:35:05 * Xuz aaahs
18:35:21 <Xuz> So, the builtin rom, EEPROM and RAM are the big things?
18:35:31 * Xuz is just curious what makes, say, the 6502 not a 'microcontroller'
18:35:48 <XeF4> how big rom?
18:38:28 <Robert> Depends... Everything from 1 kB to maybe 64kB.
18:38:54 <Robert> Many µcs have flash memory instead of ordinary PROM.
18:39:08 <Robert> Which make them excellent toys :)
18:39:17 * Xuz laughs
19:14:56 --- quit: Xuz ("ircII EPIC4-1.1.7 -- Are we there yet?")
19:28:00 --- quit: onetom (benford.freenode.net irc.freenode.net)
19:28:07 --- join: onetom (~tom@novtan.bio.u-szeged.hu) joined #forth
19:35:30 --- quit: Grant (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
20:22:38 --- join: I440r (~mark4@sdn-ap-032tnnashP0493.dialsprint.net) joined #forth
20:34:23 --- quit: Robert (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
20:34:40 <I440r> anyone in here do windows GUI coding ?
20:34:42 * I440r ducks
20:38:55 --- join: Robert (~Robert@robost86.tsps1.freenet6.net) joined #forth
20:47:06 <Herkamire> I440r: you must be MAD :)
20:48:18 <I440r> no actually, my father wants to HIRE someone and subcontract them out :)
20:48:33 <I440r> thers about 50k lines of existing sources to pick up too
20:49:46 <I440r> the company needs TWO windows GUI coders fast. i told my father i would check out some coders i knew on undernet who do windows
20:49:52 <I440r> but they are all in UNI now so...
20:55:55 --- quit: XeF4 ("pois")
21:13:45 <Herkamire> heh :) you might be on the wrong irc server for that :)
21:18:48 <I440r> that was #undernet and ircnet where i know some ppl :)
21:27:13 --- join: pyromania (~pyromania@dialup-236.128.221.203.acc02-high-pen.comindico.com.au) joined #forth
21:28:13 <Herkamire> GTK works under windoze doesn't it?
21:29:43 <I440r> yes but this isnt gtk related
21:29:45 <I440r> nor qt
21:55:34 <proteusguy> what's the gui you need I440r? Just win32 direct?
21:57:47 <I440r> dunno
21:57:52 <I440r> all i know is its windows hgui
21:57:56 <I440r> about 50k lines of code
21:58:01 <I440r> and it pays :)
21:58:35 <proteusguy> ok -  I could be interested and I have some other people if you need more than one. Is this a re-engineering or new functionality being added?
21:59:10 <proteusguy> (unless its really old its probably MFC stuff)
22:01:25 <I440r> dunno
22:01:42 <I440r> needs to be good at windows gui stuff
22:01:49 <I440r> i dont even know if its vb or vc++ :)
22:02:31 <proteusguy> Well I've done about all the gui options available to win32, class libs and raw win32. How do I get the more info and where is the client?
22:03:11 <I440r> lafayette indiana
22:03:34 <proteusguy> Developers need to be physically present whole time or just for deliverables?
22:04:22 <I440r> work would be on site 
22:04:28 <I440r> for the duration of the contract
22:05:00 <proteusguy> hmm... I think we'd probably be too expensive for just coding. $800/day/person + hotel/auto/air costs for onsite.
22:06:56 <I440r> the person would get $600 a week tax free
22:07:00 <I440r> not $800 a day heh
22:07:13 <proteusguy> hahaha - how is this tax free?
22:07:36 <I440r> because THAT part of your wage is per-diem
22:07:47 <proteusguy> oic - right.
22:07:52 <I440r> its tax free to cover the expenses you always have with contracting
22:08:39 * pyromania kicks Mark
22:08:39 <pyromania> :P
22:08:46 <I440r> lol
22:08:48 <I440r> dood!
22:08:53 <pyromania> hehe
22:08:56 <pyromania> How you  been mate.
22:08:57 <pyromania> :)
22:08:58 --- nick: pyromania -> Grant
22:09:00 <proteusguy> Well I imagine you should be able to find someone local. Good luck.
22:09:07 <I440r> not good. havent worked in over a year :(
22:09:15 <Grant> a YEAR
22:09:21 <I440r> we will find someone
22:09:22 <Grant> its ever sinceu changed houses im telln u
22:09:22 <Grant> lol
22:09:53 --- quit: proteusguy (Remote closed the connection)
22:11:27 <I440r> i gotta go zzz dood, you need to come in here earlier :)
22:11:31 <I440r> and NOT hide heh
22:11:40 <I440r> yea i know. :P
22:12:05 --- join: proteusguy (~username@65.191.88.177) joined #forth
22:13:02 <I440r> nite ppl i gtg
22:32:51 --- quit: I440r ("Reality Strikes Again!")
22:37:34 --- join: thin (~thin@h68-146-166-145.cg.shawcable.net) joined #forth
22:37:58 --- quit: thin (Client Quit)
23:08:57 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/02.11.09