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04:26:10 <Serg_Penguin> re hi
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06:59:46 <Serg_Penguin> hi
07:00:02 <tathi> hey
07:00:23 <Serg_Penguin> what do u work on now ?
07:00:39 <Serg_Penguin> today i'll write roulete statistical analyser
07:00:59 <Serg_Penguin> my co-worker says it exibits strong markov chains
07:02:25 <tathi> hmm
07:02:38 <tathi> I'm working on a colorforth editor
07:02:41 <Serg_Penguin> he even gave me his logs
07:02:53 <tathi> logs of...?
07:03:38 <Serg_Penguin> logs of casino roulette play 
07:04:26 <tathi> ah
07:05:47 <Serg_Penguin> so will smoke some texts on random theory
07:07:28 <tathi> sounds like fun
07:10:09 <Serg_Penguin> why ? roulette is not totally random
07:10:27 <Serg_Penguin> the man who throws the ball does it in similar way
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07:34:52 <I440r> lol
07:34:52 <I440r> you do that alot :)
07:34:55 <I440r> XeF4 were you serious about that ?
07:34:57 <XeF4> I440r: yes, I was serious
07:34:58 <I440r> !!!!!!!!!
07:35:00 <I440r> well ok, ill have to start thinking about how to write the manual
07:35:00 <I440r> ive NO fscking idea about that
07:35:09 <I440r> im a coder, i dont know english :)
07:36:01 <XeF4> write it in Finnish, then. afaik, all coders at least know _that_
07:36:31 <I440r> lol
07:36:49 <I440r> how about i write it in forth :))))
07:37:03 <I440r> rtfm would be... use the force, read the source :)
07:40:18 <ianni> hehe
07:40:42 <XeF4> actually writing it in Forth wouldn't be so bad
07:44:04 <XeF4> since it would cut down the ungodly number of codewords required to be in the kernel :-)
07:44:08 <I440r> the kernel SHOULD be mostly asm
07:44:16 <I440r> wtf is happening with cisco stocks :(
07:53:59 <cyberlok> I440r should write me a new COS for my cisco 678 :)
07:56:21 * cyberlok hacked out a way of getting nat and static on the same 678
07:56:43 <cyberlok> so I can have 4 servers and 1 ip for a bunch of client nat machines '
07:57:02 <cyberlok> and not buy any of those stupid nat routers to connect to the 678
07:57:24 <cyberlok> which a lot of people do 
07:57:45 <I440r> just use a linux box with ip masq
07:58:39 <cyberlok> it is a dsl modem/router/firewall I had already bought
07:59:13 <cyberlok> and getting dsl modems that worked with linux pppoe at the time was very limited
08:04:24 <I440r> aha
08:04:50 * cyberlok pets his 678 :)
08:04:51 <I440r> pppoe is bleh
08:05:01 <cyberlok> well at the time 
08:05:16 <cyberlok> I was tring to hack my PCI 2100 and 2200 dsl cards
08:05:25 <cyberlok> to get them to work in linux
08:05:40 <cyberlok> but I could not get them to work
08:05:53 <cyberlok> as those would have been prefered if they did work with linux
08:06:33 <cyberlok> heck I still have those and a 675 laying around
08:07:08 <cyberlok> Im thinking of ripping apart my 675 and having a look inside 
08:12:12 <cyberlok> I just dont know how to since I see no screws anywhere
08:12:12 <I440r> :)
08:12:12 <cyberlok> what you think bring it up with only a network connection as a honeypot ? 
08:12:12 <I440r> eh ?
08:12:12 <I440r> btw cyberlok some of those gurlz whose pictures show on your main page are BABES!!!
08:12:12 <I440r> i want their fone numbers :)
08:12:12 <cyberlok> which page my portal?
08:12:18 <cyberlok> or my gallery?
08:12:47 <I440r> on hopto
08:12:54 <I440r> which i cant seem to hop to right now
08:13:04 <cyberlok> hmm
08:13:05 <cyberlok> no?
08:13:07 <cyberlok> let me check
08:14:28 <cyberlok> yeah it works
08:14:35 <cyberlok> just my journal link is being slow as hell
08:15:15 <cyberlok> I have a php looper that checks to make sure that livejournal is working 
08:15:32 <cyberlok> otherwise it dumps another journal page on my server
08:15:52 <cyberlok> here I can quicken it up 
08:15:54 <cyberlok> one sec
08:15:55 <I440r> its not working for me, i think i might have firewalled it
08:16:17 <cyberlok> why would you do something like that :)
08:17:00 <I440r> not deliberatly
08:17:06 <I440r> im building my frewall with mason
08:17:17 <cyberlok> firewalls suck :)
08:17:18 <I440r> the only thing ive deliberatly blocked so far is doubleclick.net
08:17:27 <cyberlok> you want my hosts file?
08:17:41 <cyberlok> well it is mostly not mine actually
08:17:54 <cyberlok> it basically has all the spam sites loop though 127.0.0.1 
08:18:14 <cyberlok> so you dont get spammed all to hell and way simpler then proxy filters or firewalls
08:20:10 <cyberlok> the file should still be on my serverdisk demo site
08:20:22 <I440r> heh thats how you firewall things in windows :P
08:20:22 <I440r> does it include all the spyware sites ?
08:20:23 <cyberlok> http://serverdisk.servehttp.com/hosts.txt
08:20:47 <cyberlok> check it out man :)\
08:23:42 <cyberlok> its big it doesnt have everything but still it takes care of a lot 
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10:52:06 <Robert> Good evening :)
11:00:53 <ianni> re
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11:18:44 <Speuler> g'day
11:19:04 * Speuler rubs his eyes with amazement
11:19:24 <Speuler> party going on here ?
11:19:31 <Robert> Hello :)
11:19:37 <Robert> Seems like.
11:20:59 <Speuler> do you folks think there's the need for again another forth-specific website ?
11:22:08 <Speuler> on a server which makes it easier than the existing sites to share stuff 
11:22:58 <Speuler> self-hosted in all respects
11:23:00 <tathi> hmm, could be cool
11:23:28 <Robert> Yes. :)
11:23:28 <Speuler> including ns1 ns2 ns3
11:23:39 <Robert> Forth sourceode archive. ;)
11:23:47 <Speuler> yessir
11:24:07 <Speuler> i got the infrastructure available
11:24:22 <Speuler> quick link too
11:24:30 <Speuler> 100 mbit/s
11:25:27 <Speuler> what domain name would we like to use ?
11:27:30 <Speuler> .net , .org ?
11:27:42 <tathi> would you have some kind of description/search capability?
11:28:09 <Speuler> very likely. glimpse or related ?
11:28:12 <tathi> only existing thing that I know of is taygeta, and I never seem to be able to find stuff on there...
11:29:42 <Speuler> could you live with forthfreak.net ?
11:30:12 <Speuler> or preferrably forthfreak.org ?
11:30:30 <tathi> :)
11:35:53 <Robert> robert@forthfreak.de <-- a nice address.
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11:38:47 <Speuler> Robert: .de i got, but for international use .net or .org would be better imho
11:39:24 <Robert> Yeah...
11:39:40 <Robert> It's not taken already?
11:40:10 <tathi> doesn't look like it
11:40:37 <Robert> :
11:40:38 <Robert> :)
11:41:25 <Speuler> forthfreak.net it is
11:41:32 <Speuler> just reg'd it
11:43:28 <Robert> Hooray!
11:51:05 <Speuler> i can offer a special service on that machine
11:51:18 <Speuler> something like dyndns.org
11:51:33 <Speuler> for those who want static host name on dynamic ip addresses
11:51:48 <Speuler> yourserver.forthfreak.net
11:52:19 <Herkamire> :)
11:52:42 * Robert wouldn't have anything against robert.forthfreak.net. Could you make it cname to my dynamic DNS address?
11:52:50 <Robert> (ostling.no-ip.com)
11:52:52 <Speuler> yes
11:52:59 <Robert> Cool :-)
11:53:06 <Speuler> but you need a "client" to refresh the ip upon connect
11:53:10 <Robert> How about reverse ipv6 DNS?
11:53:27 <Speuler> possible, but the reverse dns pointers i haven't set up yet
11:53:30 <Robert> Well, if it points to ostling.no-ip.com, I'll update that address.
11:53:36 <Speuler> the name server supports it anyway
11:53:50 <Robert> In that way you just have to point to ostling.no-ip.com
11:53:52 <Robert> Cool :)
11:54:02 * Robert wants to IRC as robert.forthfreak.net ;-)
11:54:15 <Speuler> Robert: the "client" is   echo updatestring | telnet server port
11:54:38 <Speuler> you'll get a password so the srever accepts you update for your hostname
11:55:29 <Robert> Hm, OK.
11:55:56 <Robert> I mean, if you point it to ostling.no-ip.com, I'll only have to change ONE address.
11:55:56 <Speuler> Robert: using linux ?
11:56:00 <Robert> Yes.
11:56:07 <Speuler> easy
11:56:23 <Speuler> i run those scripts from /etc/ppp/ip-up.d
11:56:43 <Speuler> just a line, echoing command hostname ipaddress password
11:57:36 <Speuler> just received mail from registration auth that domain creation was successful
11:57:51 <Speuler> name servers have been set up already
11:58:26 <Speuler> looks we're online soon
11:59:36 <Robert> Hehe, cool :-)
11:59:59 <Speuler> anyone good with html design ?
12:00:08 <Robert> oswd.org ;)
12:01:04 <Robert> My router runs NetBSD, btw... What file should I put the config in?
12:02:19 <Speuler> make a script, which does :
12:03:05 <Speuler> echo dnsdyn robert.forthfreak.net $LOCAL_IP password | telnet forthfreak.net 4500
12:03:32 <Speuler> password i need to give you, but lets test your script first
12:04:06 <Speuler> that script you put in /etc/ppp/ip-up.d
12:04:46 <Speuler> about 60 secs later, the change should have propagated through other caching dns
12:06:05 <Speuler> sorry, var is  $PPP_LOCAL  (under linux it is)
12:06:31 <Robert> I'll check what it is in NetBSD.
12:07:32 <Herkamire> Speuler: what do you mean that the website is "self hosting in all respects"?
12:08:00 <Speuler> Herkamire: all own servers: dns, http, mail, etc
12:08:17 <Speuler> Herkamire: no external provider required for anything
12:09:27 <Speuler> means, we can set up anything useful on those machines
12:09:39 <Speuler> machines run linux. debian
12:10:00 <Herkamire> cool :)
12:10:28 <Speuler> and we got some dozens of gigabytes disk space
12:10:33 <Herkamire> I thought you meant that all of that was written in the forth code that it was hosting :) :-P
12:10:42 <Robert> Speuler: Whose resources are you giving away?
12:10:48 <Speuler> it would be a possibility :)
12:10:54 <Herkamire> Speuler: how do you have this? (bandwidth computer etc)
12:10:56 <Speuler> Robert: my own
12:11:09 <Robert> Speuler: :)
12:11:25 <Speuler> Herkamire: rented
12:11:58 <Speuler> inkl. 50 gbyte traffic/month
12:12:33 <Herkamire> nice. and your own computer.
12:12:36 <Herkamire> how much $?
12:12:49 <Speuler> Herkamire: i won't tell you :)
12:14:42 <Speuler> Herkamire: there are several machines, hosting other people's services. i just want to have them do something useful too
12:15:08 <Speuler> like, sharing/offering forth related stuff
12:16:13 <Speuler> Herkamire: i'm half of a 2 men web/mail/domain hosting corp
12:16:47 <Speuler> Herkamire: do  "whois forthfreak.de"
12:17:47 <Speuler> compare zone-c, tech-c, admin-c, owner :)
12:18:53 <Speuler> Herkamire: that's what i'm referring to by "selfhosting"
12:33:51 <Herkamire> cool
12:35:10 <Speuler> who wants to participate putting on things on the server, and work a bit on its presentation ?
12:36:28 <Herkamire> I'm interested, but I'm not all that clear on what you are doing :)
12:36:34 <Herkamire> putting what sort of stuff on there?
12:36:40 <I440r> bongo if isforth ever becomes so popular that the the isp hosting it gets annoyed with the trafic you can host isforth for me :) heh
12:36:59 <Speuler> I440r: sure thing, you got spacde
12:37:06 <Speuler> space
12:37:48 <I440r> i think it might be a few million years before isforth gets that popular tho :P
12:38:55 <Speuler> rewards: your own  name@forthfreak.net address,
12:39:18 <Speuler> your own host.forthfreak.net dns entry
12:39:32 <Speuler> (may be dynamic ip too!)
12:39:52 <Speuler> being part in the movement of enhancing forth's popularity
12:39:57 <Speuler> :)
12:40:00 <I440r> how much are you charging for the service normally ?
12:40:12 <Speuler> I440r: depends on what one needs
12:40:22 <Speuler> I440r: smallest package is 
12:40:43 <Speuler> domain+mail+10mb web+ iforgothowmuchtraffic 
12:40:59 <Speuler> that's about 11 $/year
12:41:07 <Speuler> maybe 12
12:41:25 <I440r> eep how u gona make a profit on that!
12:41:36 <Speuler> I440r: by having bigger packages too
12:41:59 <I440r> aha :)
12:42:01 <Speuler> I440r: largest is about 500 $
12:43:18 <Speuler> that includes helix real server for audio streaming
12:43:26 <I440r> cool :)
12:43:34 <I440r> can i come work for you :)))))
12:43:47 <I440r> ill be the cheaf cook and bottle washer
12:44:00 <I440r> dust the servers ever day too!!!1
12:44:04 <I440r> LOVINGLY!!!!!
12:44:04 <I440r> hehe
12:44:17 <Speuler> I440r: can you do php4, mysql, html ?
12:44:33 <I440r> i can just about do html
12:44:45 <I440r> i could probably learn php but database shit bores me :)
12:45:05 <Herkamire> ooo :) I can
12:45:05 <tathi> heh, yeah, I'm starting to get sick of php & mysql...
12:45:10 <Speuler> I440r: php4 would be very good indeed
12:45:22 <Speuler> and i don't want to get into that :)
12:45:36 <Speuler> i prefer to provide the backend
12:45:42 <Herkamire> I'm doing php4 and mysql as we speak (or between speaking)
12:45:59 <tathi> ditto :)
12:46:15 <Speuler> great !
12:46:30 <I440r> i want to make isforth an apache module :)
12:46:35 <I440r> and a kernel module :P
12:47:09 <Speuler> there was somebody else, intending to use forth for cgi
12:47:16 <tathi> ooh, I hadn't thought of a kernel module
12:47:27 <Speuler> I440r: isforth for server side scripts
12:48:06 <I440r> exactly
12:48:15 <Speuler> the frugal forth man, it was
12:48:26 <I440r> fractal
13:18:34 <Speuler> yes, cyberlok was it
13:19:46 <Kitanin> Well, FIG does have some examples of Forth-for-CGI on their website.
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13:22:52 <Speuler> Robert: should have it
13:23:24 <Speuler> Robert: go ahead
13:23:40 * Robert checks.
13:24:00 <Speuler> Robert: i'll paste you the log as soon it updates
13:24:29 <Robert> OK :-)
13:24:49 <Robert> How will I authentificate?
13:25:08 <Speuler> Robert: with your passwd
13:25:22 <Speuler> Robert: part of the command string
13:25:45 <Robert> root@helium:~# dig @ns1.radioaktiv.fm robert.forthfreak.net
13:25:48 <Robert> That's what I did.
13:26:00 <Robert> How should I send the password?
13:41:01 <Speuler> robert.forthfreak.net.  60      IN      A       217.208.161.13
13:41:23 <Robert> Yeah, I saw that.
13:41:32 <Robert> Dankje :)
13:41:34 <I440r> bongo did remember to bump the serial number right ??? :)
13:41:39 <Speuler> Robert: you're on
13:41:44 <Speuler> I440r: no need, but i do
13:41:55 <I440r> dont need to ?
13:41:58 <Speuler> I440r: no need because i update ns2 a different way
13:41:59 <I440r> u used to have to 
13:42:18 <Speuler> I440r: i don'T use zoneserver or getzone
13:42:28 <Speuler> must change place
13:42:30 <Speuler> later
13:42:34 <Speuler> pub closes :)
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13:47:11 <Speuler> back
13:47:32 <Robert> :)
13:47:37 <Robert> Where did you go?
13:47:42 <Speuler> to my camper
13:47:43 <onetom> Speuler: hi!
13:47:48 <Speuler> hi 1tom
13:47:56 <Robert> Speuler: Not very far away, is it?
13:48:01 <Speuler> 30 meters
13:48:03 <onetom> u were talking about fabulous thing
13:48:04 <onetom> s
13:48:05 <Robert> :)
13:48:13 <onetom> when can we use it?
13:48:19 <Robert> Not only talking ;)
13:48:39 <Speuler> 1tom: did i? was only considering setting up another forth site
13:48:45 <Robert> Hehe.
13:48:54 <Robert> As if that wasn't something wonderful? ;)
13:49:21 <onetom> Speuler: not just consider, but do it :)
13:49:25 <Speuler> onetom: server is ready. domain is registered. waiting for tld entry to get active
13:49:41 <Speuler> onetom: i'm not good with html and the like
13:49:58 <onetom> neither most of the forthers iguess :)
13:50:35 <Kitanin> onetom: neither are most of the Web developers I know.  :-)
13:50:43 <onetom> :)))
13:50:52 <onetom> same here
13:51:01 <Kitanin> ``Duh, what's a close-paragraph tag?''
13:51:14 <Robert> :)
13:51:19 <tathi> Kitanin: right on (unfortunately)
13:51:25 * Kitanin closes his <li> tags. He's that anal.
13:51:29 <Robert> Kitanin: Heh. We'll never run out of idiots :)
13:51:55 <onetom> Speuler: havent u ever considered ZOPE instead of PHPx?
13:52:17 * Kitanin </li> <!-- Thought you'd caught me, didn't you? -->
13:52:21 <onetom> Speuler: im also working 4 a small web design/email etc company
13:52:39 <onetom> Speuler: and we r just about 2 do this transition
13:52:44 <Speuler> onetom: no, but nothing against it. i'm just not sufficiently into web design to even care :)
13:53:00 <Speuler> 1tom
13:53:11 <Speuler> 1tom: i had a look at zope though
13:53:18 <Robert> Hehe.
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13:53:27 <Robert> Not even I am THAT pedantic, Kitanin.
13:53:52 <Robert> Even though I maybe should do it :)
13:53:57 <onetom> Speuler: i could show a complete system in zope about 1 month later, i hope
13:54:07 <Robert> I was raised with unclosed <li>s.
13:54:33 <onetom> Speuler: i also host a forth wiki on the devel machine 4 free
13:55:08 <Speuler> forthfreak.net still hasn't made it to tld servers ...
13:56:36 <Speuler> onetom: if we combine efforts and material, we may be able to get something very usable pretty soon
13:56:49 <Kitanin> Robert: When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.  :-)
13:57:23 * Kitanin likes the hypocritical nature of the smiley there.
13:57:23 <onetom> Speuler: k, will c l8r. im pretty sure im gonna b able 2 show u things
13:57:49 <onetom> Speuler: coz we put this sys 2gether on order
13:57:54 <Speuler> onetom: i'd love to see
13:58:02 <onetom> Speuler: that is we get money 4 it
13:58:36 <onetom> Speuler: and we r already past the due date
13:58:50 <Speuler> 1tom: i wasn't thinking about making money from it ...
13:59:33 <onetom> Speuler: ive understood it, ive just informed u about my conditions :)
13:59:39 <Speuler> just my part of a contribution to the forth community
14:00:21 <Speuler> 1tom: u say, we pay, you make website ?
14:00:25 <onetom> a free email system already works @ szegedvaros.hu
14:00:36 <onetom> Speuler: no, i didnt say that
14:00:54 <Speuler> 1tom: please be clearer about your conditions.
14:01:02 <onetom> Speuler: i said im doing zope programming for money nowdays
14:01:10 <Speuler> ah. got you
14:02:14 <onetom> Speuler: & im working on a similar system u r talkin about
14:07:32 <Robert> Kitanin: If I become a man, I might think about </li>, too.
14:09:02 <Kitanin> :-)
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17:20:21 <Speuler> 'morning
17:20:52 <Herkamire> hello
17:21:03 <Speuler> ah :)
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17:33:05 <Herkamire> wb
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18:35:06 <Speuler> bluddy #%"§$&
18:35:48 <Speuler> whois database for com net org hasn't updated for hours now.
18:35:52 <Speuler> been
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21:57:08 <Serg_Penguin> hi
22:02:20 <cyberlok2> hey Serg_Penguin 
22:02:23 <cyberlok2> hows it going?
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22:03:04 <cyberlok2> finally 
22:03:09 --- nick: cyberlok2 -> cyberlok
22:03:42 <Serg_Penguin> hi
22:04:16 <cyberlok> what you up to ?
22:05:38 <Serg_Penguin> analyzed casino roulette play logs
22:05:55 <cyberlok> huh? 
22:05:56 <cyberlok> why?
22:06:19 <Serg_Penguin> it shows strong markov chains, but i didn't came up w/ any 'system'
22:06:35 <Serg_Penguin> my co-worker says hi wins much on roulette
22:06:53 <Serg_Penguin> much=often
22:06:59 <cyberlok> electronic roulette?
22:07:19 <Serg_Penguin> no, real, in casin, w/ real ball and real man who throws it
22:08:11 <cyberlok> well then there are no relation 
22:08:26 <cyberlok> it is as random as one gets 
22:08:43 <cyberlok> its actually almost perfectly random 
22:09:19 <Serg_Penguin> heh, logs show great series of r/b, e/o, 18/36 ... :(
22:09:38 <cyberlok> yes you land a series and your lucky 
22:09:42 <cyberlok> you pull a shit load 
22:09:57 <cyberlok> the problem is there is no patern 
22:10:15 <cyberlok> not even a real good odds 
22:10:49 <cyberlok> the best odd you have is betting red or black and no numbetr
22:10:52 <cyberlok> number
22:11:24 <Serg_Penguin> on one log, would i play 'if something ( r,b,e,o,1,36) hasn't been for 3 times, bet on it, if u lose 2 times, stop betting on this serie'
22:11:46 <Serg_Penguin> w/ such algorithm, at one log i 'won' 11 bets and 'lost' 7
22:12:32 <Serg_Penguin> on another log, i 'lost' 19 and won only 11, but it has 'series' of 4 , not 3
22:12:46 <Serg_Penguin> so now will try the same but w/ 4 instead of 3
22:12:57 <Serg_Penguin> whadda u think ?
22:13:16 <Serg_Penguin> or remove 2 bet rule, just give up after 1 lose
22:13:52 <Serg_Penguin> ...
22:14:05 <cyberlok> well
22:14:22 <cyberlok> if you go down to 1 then you leave yourself back into good ol random 
22:15:10 <cyberlok> but its your $$
22:16:19 <Serg_Penguin> now not $$, only time, paper and pencil
22:16:37 <Serg_Penguin> $$ will be if i'll surely 'win' on logs
22:17:22 <Serg_Penguin> i started to write a proggie for analysis, but before i'll 'sniff' it on paper
22:18:05 <cyberlok> haha 
22:18:17 <cyberlok> have a foot clicker in your shoe ? and a pda ?
22:20:31 <Serg_Penguin> i write pc proggie to analyse logs massively and see is it worth going to casino at all
22:20:58 <Serg_Penguin> at casini, i won't use anything but their standart log sheets
22:21:38 <cyberlok> my uncle is one of those people who can card count in his head 
22:21:47 <cyberlok> so in some places in vegas he is not allowed 
22:22:47 <Serg_Penguin> but in moscow, they give u cards for logging w/ rules on other side, it's allowed
22:23:51 <cyberlok> damn no shit
22:24:00 <cyberlok> my uncle is like crazy good at 21
22:24:18 <cyberlok> I was with him when he walked into a place with 20 and walked out with 400 
22:26:23 <Serg_Penguin> i dunno even understand cards, i play only chess and had never played anything for money
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23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/02.10.03