00:00:00 --- log: started forth/02.09.26 00:17:55 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 00:19:39 hi 00:30:46 z 00:44:56 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 01:11:38 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 01:13:08 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 01:41:44 --- quit: Shain (Remote closed the connection) 01:52:02 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 01:52:25 hi 01:54:28 Hi 01:56:36 Chef_: hi! 01:57:09 i have some marginal questions about pf 01:58:35 i have some name variation recommendation 4 bit manipulation words 01:58:55 0bit 1bit /bit bit? 01:59:03 0b 1b /b b@ 01:59:18 b! bs! bc! bt! b@ 01:59:38 @b! @bs! @bc! @bt! @b@ 02:00:54 another idea about stnd bit defs: 02:00:59 eg: 7 intcon bit: gie 02:01:45 never worked w/ bits.... 02:02:25 and finally l" or s\l" or s\" instead of scr" what is much closer 2 screen than string-w-a-cr 02:04:16 note: the difference between bs! & @bs! is the "stack effect": bs! ( data bit -- data ) @bs! ( bit addr -- ) 02:06:41 prg! prg@ instead of flash-read/write, coz the role of a mem region is more important than its type, i think. sometimes 02:07:47 onetom: sorry, was not in front of my screen. I am reading what you just wrote 02:08:11 onetom: just add a file where you define those in a "macro" section :) 02:09:06 oh, they r the same as ur bit-set bit-clr 02:09:14 onetom: concerning your proposed bit:, I thought about it, but I don't know what to do yet, I have not made my mind clear on that. 02:09:26 i just want 2 consider name alternatives 02:09:28 onetom: yup, and those are aliased with "high" and "low" which are more appropriate for ports 02:09:40 onetom: I know, but I find my name clearer :) 02:10:13 ur is more chattier, thats sure 02:10:41 onetom: prg! prg@ make sense, but I can't use that as the interface is different from ! and @. I cannot easily push 16 and 14 bits values on the stack 02:10:53 but if we can find shorter but still apropriate abbrevs, why dont we use them? ;) 02:11:24 onetom: because I have to like them first, this is one of the conditions :-))) 02:11:33 Chef_: yeah, i thought that would b a problem :) 02:11:51 Chef_: but that was just an example 02:11:59 onetom: yup, understood 02:12:09 Chef_: example about it can b similar 2 ee! & ee@ 02:12:25 Chef_: the point is the incorporation of prg instead of flash 02:12:28 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 02:12:46 Chef_: but i dont know either is it really a better solution 02:13:07 Chef_: but the bit manipulating words should b shortened somehow 02:13:25 & what about scr" ? 02:14:14 Yup, l" is OK with me, I'll do the change 02:15:06 k 02:15:32 & l stands 4 Line of course as i read 02:16:03 Thanks for explaining :-) *evil grin* 02:18:32 evil grin is >:-) 02:18:42 evil grin looks like: >:-) 02:18:49 Something bugs me... I wonder whether I should invert argument orders in bit-set and friends. That is: bit-set ( port bit -- ) instead of bit-set ( bit port -- ) 02:19:07 My evil grin looks like nothing :) 02:19:11 :) 02:19:35 well, the order also made me think when i was about 2 implement bit manipulation words 02:19:48 but have a look @ my examples 02:19:51 The reordered way bit-set ( port bit -- ) would ease use of those words in assembler 02:20:13 As the same pin-a etc. definitions could be used with: pin-a bsf 02:20:26 eeerm, i forgot ur mail _____@rfc1149.net ? 02:20:35 sam@rfc1149.net 02:21:12 Chef_: btw, pina means vagina+lips+fanhair 2gether in hungarian ;) 02:21:13 But please, write in English, do not have me decipher your (unneeded) abbreviations 02:21:42 onetom: and "pine" means "dick" in French 02:22:16 hehe :) 02:23:20 hey, its english! compact english! words r described after their uttered 4m ;) 02:23:37 onetom: I can't figure by its name what @b! does 02:24:06 dont b afraid, i only use : b u r 1 2 4 & @ 02:24:08 thats all 02:24:19 & sometimes i drop spaces 02:24:30 &dont like using apostrophe 02:24:45 Oh, I see what @b! does, but I think b! would be at least as clear 02:24:48 i usually replace it w space or nothin 02:25:09 ur mind is a diligent construct 02:25:30 it gonna get into the habit of decoding me style damn fast! 02:25:32 onetom: sure, my mind can decode that, but you place the burden on the receiver rather than on you 02:26:07 so dont b afraid of it. the burden gonna knocked down automatically soon 02:26:35 onetom: I'm sure that if I write everything in MiXeD cAsE you will get up with that quite soon too 02:26:52 get up? 02:26:53 onetom: but I sure don't see the benefits. Can't you type just a little faster and add the 10% missing characters? 02:26:57 what does it mean? ;) 02:27:10 onetom: get up -> catch up (typo) 02:27:16 ah 02:27:33 look, its a habit of mine 02:27:56 i cant type faster so i get into the habit of using abbrevs 02:28:08 this was the only way enhancing me speed 02:28:19 typin speed 02:28:34 beside that its fun 02:28:48 so i dont plan 2 get rid of it 02:29:08 & i also experienced its not hard 2 "learn" decoding it 02:29:24 coz everybody here has managed 2 learn it within some days 02:29:49 so they can read it fluently wo any problems yet 02:30:09 Come on, you better take two days working on typing "you" fast rather than requiring everyone to take 2 days to understand you without efforts 02:30:29 Well, I guess this is a kinda "gang" thing, you probably have friends who do the same thing :) 02:32:26 gfz 2 b more specific 02:32:45 gfz? 02:32:56 & i do this 4 ~2yrs so it wont b easy 2 get rid of it 02:33:14 :) just pulling ur leg w gfz 02:33:19 :)) 02:33:28 i dont write it usually on public channels 02:33:40 its GirlFriendS 02:34:04 Oh, I couldn't figure the z, thought it was "zoophilia" or something like that 02:34:36 but, lets get back 2 the topic 02:35:16 & lets agree on an abbrev: pf,p4th := pic4th, right? 02:35:29 Nope, the name is PicForth :) 02:35:48 Why don't you take 1tom as a nick for yourself? 02:36:01 To be consistent :) 02:36:24 coz irc doesnt like names starting w digits ;p 02:36:44 That's a good reason :) 02:36:58 & i dont want 2 change the name, just "invent" some abbrevs ;) 02:37:13 09-26 11:37:44 [opn] -!- 1tom Erroneous Nickname 02:38:22 Chef_: do u prefer ans4th? 02:39:02 i plan 2 rewrite (reprhrase actually) the picforth.fs file 02:39:12 just as an excercise 02:39:16 You can do that, it's GPL :) 02:39:25 coz it would help me understanding it 02:39:40 & probably i can factorize it more 02:39:57 the rewrite would b block shaped 02:40:01 u like blocks? 02:40:24 onetom: never used them 02:40:29 onetom: I'm not that old to Forth 02:40:39 neither i 02:41:14 but nowdays i dig the ultimate 4th src site, ultratechnology.com 02:41:44 i the documents there emphasize an interesting "feature" of block constraints 02:41:56 Mmm... It's useful, but not the ultimate Forth site. 02:42:06 Blocks look much more useful when you develop on the target. 02:42:12 (the 16x64 size constraint of course) 02:42:26 When you use a big forth with bells and whistles such as gforth, files may be much more easier to use 02:42:33 onetom: yeah, I've read all the articles 02:42:43 aaall!?!? 02:42:52 u must b smart then ;) 02:43:06 but diligent @ least :) 02:43:25 onetom: there is not so many articles on Forth... 02:43:46 erm, i dont agree 02:43:51 its all about 4th 02:44:01 also the chip design 02:44:06 the parallelization 02:44:09 everything 02:44:32 onetom: we don't have the same notion of "many" I think :) 02:44:54 The most interesting article (IMO) is in fact the discussion with Sean Pringle on preparser source representation 02:44:55 observin the whole hw+sw phonemenon as a global whole 02:45:11 makes u really find out what 4th is 02:45:51 or what is recommended 2 b considered belonging 2 4th 02:46:20 im not so advanced reading those articles yet 02:46:31 so i cant say anything about seans stuff 02:46:44 (i dont even what title do u think of :) 02:47:22 There is no title, just "email discussions about Enth/Flux" or something like that 02:47:36 I have the whole content of ultratechnology articles on my Palm :) 02:48:07 but u should have some opinion about block constraint & its factorization encouragement nature 02:48:14 geee 02:48:18 really!?!?!! 02:48:21 in what format? 02:48:29 coz i also have a plam 02:48:53 onetom: plucker 02:48:58 http://www.plkr.org/ 02:49:04 A free software documentation reader 02:49:08 palm IIIc, exactly 4 the goal of doc reading beside jotting of course 02:49:51 thx 4 the link! there r so many so its so hard 2 choose from them so ;) 02:52:26 aaaa, plrk is the coolest reader of all ive seen so far 02:52:32 thx again 02:54:26 I've sent you two files full of Forth articles :) 02:59:11 oh, everlasting thanks :) 03:04:43 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 03:05:55 Food time, bbl 03:06:07 hi 03:18:42 Hi Serg 03:18:44 onetom: still around? 03:19:14 in and out - testing hardware 03:22:18 what u wanna ask ? 03:22:58 Serg_Penguin: I had something to tell to onetom, that's all :) 03:26:19 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 03:29:40 yup 03:32:13 --- join: lodda (~lodda@p508FE0CF.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 03:32:21 are there any german forth books? 03:34:34 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 03:35:08 and btw i can't understand that some Forth programmer say that C programmers are bad programmers (I440r), because the interesting thing on programing is to solve every problem you see and that a language is easy (or at least readable) that everybody can understand your code. 03:37:45 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (Client Quit) 03:41:27 onetom: you wrote something about factoring 03:41:44 lodda: welcome 03:41:53 onetom: but you forgot one more important thing found in Chuck's or Jeff's comments: do not spend time on a Forth compiler. Work on real applications yet. 03:41:58 Chef_: i asked about it :) 03:42:16 onetom: in short, instead of trying to have PicForth itself fit into blocks, why don't you write real applications for Pic? :) 03:42:20 "they" state that the size constrait of the 1k block 03:42:21 brb 03:42:23 --- quit: lodda ("leaving") 03:42:43 encourages higher hactoring of the program 03:42:49 onetom: yeah, I read that. But I also read the comment about "writing a Forth compiler has no use unless you really use it, Forth is a tool" 03:42:50 :D hactoring 03:42:55 imeant factoring of course 03:44:14 well... 03:44:26 writing "real" applications requires skills 03:44:41 these skill can also b obtained by 03:44:45 skills 03:45:11 considering the 4th compiler itself a real application 03:45:24 & construct it as perfect as u can 03:45:52 onetom: in which case you will never get the job done if you only focus on the compiler 03:45:58 such a compiler gives u nice factorization examples 03:46:03 onetom: what I do is work on the compiler only when it brings me immediate benefits 03:46:19 sure sure 03:46:35 but im in the experimenting/researchin phase now 03:47:01 eg, i know how 2 write turbovision or delphi programs 03:47:34 coz they attached a lot of examples & docs 2 the development tool 03:47:44 so i know how 2 indent 03:47:49 how 2 name things 03:48:08 how can i interact w the user 03:48:17 --- join: lodda (~Lothar@p508FD00D.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 03:48:22 (key, display & bg objects) 03:48:26 --- join: LuckyPhil (~phowlett@CPE-203-45-248-201.qld.bigpond.net.au) joined #forth 03:48:31 how 2 file them & so on 03:48:51 but i can do all these in a 4th environment 03:48:59 something i don't understand is, why forth should be sooo fast...it can't be faster than asm, can it? 03:49:00 coz its much more underdefined 03:49:36 until i find answer 2 all of the questions mentioned above 03:50:02 i cant feel myself balanced on the field of 4th 03:50:27 lodda: faster than what asm? thats the question 03:50:47 lodda: 4th in itself can also b considered a processor architecture 03:51:17 lodda: so a 4th enviroment is usually a processzor simulator 03:51:30 so Forth is asm 03:51:36 exactly 03:51:45 and the name of the proccessor is Forth ;) 03:51:58 just of a different & usually immaginary machine 03:52:45 so the simulation over a different architecture is always takes more time 03:52:52 than doing it natively 03:53:51 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 03:54:13 hey there Serg 03:54:17 because of it is asm the compiling is so fast right? 03:54:51 hmm... wel well 03:55:37 because the src representation is so simple, the compiler is much more faster compared 2 other langs' 03:55:54 hi LuckyPhil 03:56:15 yesterday i tryed enth w/ LILO and WinXP loader 03:56:19 lodda asm will always be faster then 4th until one compares asm on a 4th based cpu system to actual 4th 03:56:22 both fail - go reboot 03:56:48 but in general 4th will be slightly larger and slower then very very tight asm 03:57:30 if you read some of the past archives what they did with 4th you will see that most of the systems were made in 4th 03:57:42 all except a few time critial routines 03:58:05 and all of this was small enough to be stuck on machines that we now consider today to be pocket calculators 03:58:11 most of which systems? 03:58:17 OSs? 03:58:28 well a lot of it was used to astronomy 03:58:49 I was looking at accessing the hd using enth as well 03:58:50 tracking of stars and collection and analyzation of data on magnetic or ticket tape 03:59:30 what is faster now (in reality) C or forth? 03:59:40 also becuase of the nature of 4th it was simple for them to make seemless multitasking on extremely lowend machines 03:59:50 lodda depends 04:00:29 if you want to do only 1 thing 04:00:31 and that is all 04:00:48 ASM on a DOS based frame work will work best on the lowest system possible 04:01:13 but in most cases people dont want to do that anymore 04:02:07 4th has a really good concept behind it 04:03:00 is there a Forth to intel asm code-generator? 04:03:24 none that I know of 04:04:46 --- quit: Serg_Penguin ("gonna swap hardw, testing...") 04:12:29 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 04:15:13 --- join: cleverdra (julianf@0-1pool37-35.nas2.florence1.sc.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 04:15:30 hi cleverdra 04:15:42 hello Serg 04:15:57 i'm going in and out, testing hardw 04:21:36 --- join: jacereda (~jacereda@VA1-1G-u-0041.mc.onolab.com) joined #forth 04:21:44 hi 04:26:10 hello jacereda 04:30:16 --- quit: Serg_Penguin ("swap cd-rw...") 04:30:28 --- quit: LuckyPhil () 04:37:51 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 04:38:11 re hi 04:43:13 --- quit: cyberlok (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:43:17 --- join: cyberlok2 (CyberLOK@cyberlok.no-ip.com) joined #forth 04:46:10 --- nick: cyberlok2 -> cyberlok 04:46:10 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:47:34 onetom: PicForth 0.15 is out, at http://www.rfc1149.net/devel/picforth/, with better bit manipulation (but I haven't changed the names though). However, you are now in the "Thanks" section of the "README". 04:48:16 :) im gonna tak i on the road w me 04:48:36 coz im gonna leave 4 half a day soon 04:48:58 s/tak i/tak it/ 04:50:17 Chef_: btw, what is that V in the v-for v-next construct? 04:51:38 oops, i forgot 2 mention that changing the meaning of a bit 04:52:10 form single cell 2 dbl cells requires the modification of the assembler 04:52:40 bit manipulation words have 2 nip/drop the address part 04:52:58 (or consider it 4 bank change optimization...) 04:53:24 Renamed example 04:53:24 checker.fs has been rename 04:53:24 controller.fs, as the previous name was 04:53:25 misleading. 04:53:30 onetom: v- is for "variable-" 04:53:37 s/been rename/been renameD/ 04:53:50 Yup, typo 04:54:15 Chef_: ah, var! okay. that would b cool 2 mention it in the doc 2 04:54:17 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 04:54:51 re hi 04:54:59 Ok, added in the doc 04:55:08 There exists a "v-for"/"v-next" structure (v stands for variable): 04:55:14 Clearer? :) 04:55:57 absolutely! thx :) 04:56:09 The memory space is limited to only the first bank, 04:56:37 It is documented 04:56:43 ive created general ! & @ words 4 accessing the whole mem 04:56:46 In "caveats and limitation" 04:56:56 onetom: happy you :) 04:56:57 i named them fr@ fr!. what about it? 04:57:17 onetom: are they efficient? 04:57:34 just in case when that time comes u need it ;) 04:57:34 If they are not, you can use those defined at the beginning of generator.fs for banks 1 and 2 04:58:09 no, they r inefficient. i just want u 2 know my full naming convention 04:58:25 onetom: I will extend @ ! as needed, to use the whole memory, but I have no proper solution to fetch/store data from unknown-at-compile-time addresses in alternate banks 05:00:12 so the big picture of my convension is: fr@ fr! ee@ ee! prg@ prg! 05:00:12 onetom: I cannot tell if fr! is the real name or one of your abbreviations :) 05:00:12 fucking-real-! or something :) 05:00:12 :)) its the real name for FileReg 05:00:12 loll 05:00:12 not bad expansion 05:00:12 Do they take 16 bits addresses? 05:00:12 yup 05:00:12 just like prg! 05:00:12 onetom: yuk, that means that those addresses need to be stored in double bytes themselves... 05:00:18 onetom: I'm not sure fr! and fr@ are needed at all, as typically PIC programmers will store well-defined things in each bank 05:00:28 i tried 2 gain nice interface instead of a fast 1 ;) 05:00:54 onetom: so I will probably add explicit bank manipulation words to that effect 05:01:05 i also wrote a virtual pic & i used doubles there too 05:01:16 onetom: nice interface is ok, but not if it 1) complicates the compiler or 2) generates unefficient code 05:01:35 which is pretty inefficient but allowed the code 2 run on pc as well as on pic 05:01:40 wo any modifications 05:01:46 For example, because of 2), I have no bit-clr? word. It would be much too inefficient, compared to "bit-set? /if" 05:01:57 Chef_: 3) it works 05:02:15 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 05:02:57 i agree, optimizations r needed, but i heard it somewhere: "4th is a tool" ;) 05:03:53 i just u 2 b influenced a lil bit @ least by my gloabl naming convention ;) 05:03:54 onetom: yup, and in my case it is a tool to generate the smallest possible code on a PIC. Optimizations in the compiler itself are useless (I use linked lists instead of hash tables for a lot of things for example) 05:04:04 But optimization of the generated code is one of the primary goal 05:04:21 agree agree agree 05:04:29 onetom: I would not trust someone who cannot type full words for choosing right naming conventions :) 05:04:36 lollll 05:04:53 then never trust chuck himself either! ;) 05:05:12 It reminds me when he encoded only length + 3 first letters :) 05:05:18 u must have seen some of his sources :) 05:05:31 yeah :) i know that letter 05:05:39 It was sti__ pos_____ to und_______ him :) 05:05:54 His sources are well commented 05:05:55 but its really understandable 4 me 05:06:02 so i support it ;p 05:06:26 sure, but his wordnames r cryptic many times 05:06:34 but gotta go now 05:06:40 c u tomorrow 05:06:43 Bye :) 05:16:40 Chef_: 05:16:41 [-- Attachment #2: ForthIndex.pdb --] 05:16:44 [-- Type: application/octet-stream, Encoding: base64, Size: 1.1M --] 05:16:49 [-- Attachment #3: fox.pdb --] 05:16:52 [-- Type: text/plain, Encoding: quoted-printable, Size: 444K --] 05:17:08 ur mail client works a lil bit strange 05:17:25 why did it think fox.pdb is txt? 05:17:37 but now im really away in some mins :) 05:25:36 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 05:25:55 re hi 05:26:42 : serg_hi came_today? if s" re hi" else s" hi" then emit cr came_today! ; 05:26:56 ???? 05:27:14 i'm testing lot of crap cd-rw, so going up and down 05:27:24 Does it crash your machine? 05:27:42 i turn off and on to swap drives 05:28:07 Oh, I see 05:28:13 if i do it hot, it will be no need to test - all will be dead 05:28:33 what do u work on now ? 05:28:40 PicForth and IRC bot :) 05:28:53 (PicForth for my model railroad) 05:28:53 forth for pic ? 05:29:02 Serg_Penguin: yup, cf. http://www.rfc1149.net/devel/picforth 05:29:05 Works pretty well 05:30:39 do u think it's possible to make hobby comp, like Z80, out of PIC ? 05:30:57 What do you mean? Adapt the compiler? 05:31:31 make small hobby computer out of PIC microcontroller as CPU ? 05:32:18 Oh... Probably not with a PIC 16f87x, as it only has a few bytes of RAM, but it should be doable with a 18Cxxx 05:33:08 Mmm.. In fact, you could probably do it, but it would be slow, as you would have to use serial eeprom to act as ram 05:34:13 forget it, i'd better find commodore amiga :) its damn fast 05:34:25 swapping cd-rw's... 05:34:47 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 05:51:44 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 06:14:34 --- quit: Serg_Penguin (Killed (NickServ (Nickname Enforcement))) 06:14:38 --- join: Serg_p (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 06:15:13 re hi 06:19:59 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@wsip68-15-54-54.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 06:21:16 hi 06:21:59 --- nick: Serg_p -> Serg_Penguin 06:24:11 hi :) 06:25:06 what do u work on now ? i just polished off my RU unicode decryptor :) 06:25:40 me or you? 06:25:51 u :) 06:26:12 I was thinking the same thing ;) 06:26:49 :))))) 06:27:03 I was either going to work on my wiki-like documentation system, or finish hacking imcom (commandline jaber client) to support multiple "windows" like irssi 06:27:26 not really windows. more like tabs 06:27:56 ok 06:28:31 my work is now out of computers - aricle on pencil-and-paper crypto for some popular teenager magazine 06:30:33 --- quit: Serg_Penguin () 06:35:17 --- join: Serg_Penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 06:35:39 re hi 06:35:46 wb 06:36:04 time to put MIRC in autorun :) 06:36:17 time to install linux 06:36:43 here i forced to use Lose 98 - work 06:36:57 ahh 06:37:35 i also have MuLinux - for editing/recovering HDDs at lo-lev 06:37:40 windoze causes so much needless suffering in this world 06:38:38 but it also recruited so much people to computer users, and caused great prices drop 06:39:07 hi-IQ'ers are often parasiting on stupids..... 06:39:22 hehe 06:41:21 do u believe in forth os ? 06:41:38 yes 06:42:16 --- join: tathi (~josh@wsip68-15-54-54.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 06:42:18 and what are good prjects ? i looked at Enth - did not impressed, 70's kind of thing 06:42:44 what's enth? 06:43:12 standalone flop-boot forth 06:43:15 I havn't done much research. I was just planning on writing an OS with Tathi 06:43:26 seems prot-mode 06:43:30 haven you heard of one for PPC? 06:43:42 and what u'r os will look like ? 06:43:46 no, didnt 06:44:49 what PPC - Mac, Amiga ? 06:45:02 mac 06:45:10 we each have a dual G4 06:45:31 it may be simular to chucks colorforth thing 06:45:44 no onscreen keyboard or huge characters though ;) 06:47:03 there will be a colorforth editor which you can use to edit existing code, or use like command line. 06:47:48 will it be multiuser/m-task ? 06:48:12 I hope to have memory protection and multitasking eventually. 06:48:13 kernel: monolyte, modular ? 06:48:47 at first it will be single thread (no kernel really) 06:49:03 I probably won't ever bother with multiuser. 06:49:36 will it be network-able ? 06:49:48 definately 06:50:25 task list: 1) write an editor. 2) get it to boot. 3) add network support. 06:50:46 though we may add networks support under linux before we get it to boot. 06:51:10 did u read 'just for fun' by Linus Torvalds ? 06:52:03 no 06:52:28 it's a must 06:54:13 Why? 06:57:52 288 pages?? hehe :) I read the whole into before I realized it was a book. 06:58:50 is it available on the net? 06:59:21 because it shows how Linus came from flop-boot utility program (terminal emulator) to OS kernel, and WHY his kernel became so soccessful 06:59:39 interesting 06:59:47 it was _extendable_ , despite had not many features 06:59:59 many syscalls were missing at all 07:00:47 I don't think my system is going to support any king of existing software 07:02:05 I'll have to make it do something usefull before it's going to take the world by storm 07:03:42 linux even had no net then 'storm' began 07:04:22 but Linus made it clear for community what his thing is _extendable_ 07:04:47