00:00:00 --- log: started forth/02.09.21 00:00:28 --- join: Klaw (chuck@ip68-4-243-214.oc.oc.cox.net) joined #forth 00:00:28 --- quit: Klaw (Connection reset by peer) 00:01:30 --- join: Klaw (chuck@ip68-4-243-214.oc.oc.cox.net) joined #forth 00:01:30 --- quit: Klaw (Broken pipe) 00:02:31 --- join: Klaw (chuck@ip68-4-243-214.oc.oc.cox.net) joined #forth 00:02:31 --- quit: Klaw (Remote closed the connection) 00:03:32 --- join: Klaw (chuck@ip68-4-243-214.oc.oc.cox.net) joined #forth 00:03:32 --- quit: Klaw (Remote closed the connection) 00:04:32 --- join: Klaw (chuck@ip68-4-243-214.oc.oc.cox.net) joined #forth 00:04:32 --- quit: Klaw (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00:05:34 --- join: Klaw (chuck@ip68-4-243-214.oc.oc.cox.net) joined #forth 00:05:34 --- quit: Klaw (Remote closed the connection) 00:06:35 --- join: Klaw (chuck@ip68-4-243-214.oc.oc.cox.net) joined #forth 00:06:35 --- quit: Klaw (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00:07:35 --- join: Klaw (chuck@ip68-4-243-214.oc.oc.cox.net) joined #forth 00:07:35 --- quit: Klaw (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00:08:36 --- join: Klaw (chuck@ip68-4-243-214.oc.oc.cox.net) joined #forth 00:08:36 --- quit: Klaw (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00:09:38 --- join: Klaw (chuck@ip68-4-243-214.oc.oc.cox.net) joined #forth 00:09:38 --- quit: Klaw (Remote closed the connection) 00:10:39 --- join: Klaw (chuck@ip68-4-243-214.oc.oc.cox.net) joined #forth 00:10:39 --- quit: Klaw (Remote closed the connection) 00:11:39 --- join: Klaw (chuck@ip68-4-243-214.oc.oc.cox.net) joined #forth 00:11:39 --- quit: Klaw (Connection reset by peer) 00:12:41 --- join: Klaw (chuck@ip68-4-243-214.oc.oc.cox.net) joined #forth 00:12:41 --- quit: Klaw (Remote closed the connection) 00:13:41 --- join: Klaw (chuck@ip68-4-243-214.oc.oc.cox.net) joined #forth 00:13:42 --- quit: Klaw (Remote closed the connection) 00:14:43 --- join: Klaw (chuck@ip68-4-243-214.oc.oc.cox.net) joined #forth 00:14:43 --- quit: Klaw (Remote closed the connection) 00:15:44 --- join: Klaw (chuck@ip68-4-243-214.oc.oc.cox.net) joined #forth 00:15:44 --- quit: Klaw (Remote closed the connection) 00:16:44 --- join: Klaw (chuck@ip68-4-243-214.oc.oc.cox.net) joined #forth 00:16:44 --- quit: Klaw (Remote closed the connection) 00:17:45 --- join: Klaw (chuck@ip68-4-243-214.oc.oc.cox.net) joined #forth 00:17:45 --- quit: Klaw (Connection reset by peer) 00:18:46 --- join: Klaw (chuck@ip68-4-243-214.oc.oc.cox.net) joined #forth 00:18:46 --- quit: Klaw (Connection reset by peer) 00:19:30 --- join: thin (thin@h24-66-221-120.cg.shawcable.net) joined #forth 00:19:30 --- mode: ChanServ set +o thin 00:19:31 --- join: Klaw (chuck@ip68-4-243-214.oc.oc.cox.net) joined #forth 00:19:31 --- quit: Klaw (Remote closed the connection) 00:19:34 --- part: thin left #forth 00:19:48 --- join: Klaw (chuck@ip68-4-243-214.oc.oc.cox.net) joined #forth 00:19:48 --- quit: Klaw (Remote closed the connection) 00:20:10 --- join: thin (thin@h24-66-221-120.cg.shawcable.net) joined #forth 00:20:10 --- mode: ChanServ set +o thin 00:20:10 --- join: Klaw (chuck@ip68-4-243-214.oc.oc.cox.net) joined #forth 00:20:10 --- quit: Klaw (Connection reset by peer) 00:20:40 --- mode: thin set +b *!chuck@ip68-4-243-214.oc.oc.cox.net 00:21:07 --- mode: thin set +o Robert 00:21:20 robert: unban him in like 5-8 hours 00:23:21 --- quit: Klaw` (Remote closed the connection) 01:24:28 --- nick: dmiles -> nephrael 01:45:16 Heh. 01:45:31 (Check time zones before you give orders, dear ;) 01:45:43 I was sleeping when you said that, thin. 01:46:00 --- mode: Robert set -b *!chuck@ip68-4-243-214.oc.oc.cox.net 01:46:19 * Robert checks is Klaw's problems have been solved. 01:52:21 --- nick: nephrael -> dmiles 02:04:36 --- quit: Robert (": KERNEL ." Starting Windows 2003" BEGIN PIGS-FLY? UNTIL ;") 02:08:36 --- join: Robert (~Robert@robost86.tsps1.freenet6.net) joined #forth 04:53:05 --- quit: thin (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:49:44 --- join: LuckyPhil (~phowlett@CPE-203-45-248-201.qld.bigpond.net.au) joined #forth 06:53:05 Hello 07:07:39 Hi :) 07:21:06 --- join: ASau (ASau@158.250.48.197) joined #forth 07:21:50 Good evening! 07:35:41 Good afternoon, ASau 08:37:47 Good :) 08:37:47 --- quit: LuckyPhil (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:55:21 --- join: thin (~thin@h24-66-221-120.cg.shawcable.net) joined #forth 08:57:35 Good evening, thin! 08:57:52 good morning asau 08:58:10 Did you try to design a shell Forth-sublanguage? 08:58:55 I've read Fox's articles about plain DB's, but I can't understand, 08:59:00 ??? 08:59:12 why would i design a shell forth-sublanguage? 08:59:14 how it is useful for my _desktop_ system. 08:59:17 heh 08:59:57 I need to proceed many data sets of different kind, 09:00:16 with various line (record) length, 09:00:22 and also texts. 09:00:24 ASau: article url? 09:00:30 robert: i know what timezone you are in. i know you were sleeping when i asked you to unban him in 5-8 hours. don't you have timestamp on?? 09:01:01 Hmm... 09:01:33 I can't remember, but it's about file systems uselessness... 09:01:37 This kind. 09:01:56 Yes, I do. 09:02:06 But how could you know I didn't die in my sleep? 09:02:26 heh, if you hadn't unbanned him, i would've when i woke up 09:02:36 it's not really a big deal.. 09:02:47 :) 09:03:06 ASau: i like not understandable things. could u dig that url from ur browsers history? 09:03:22 robert: you unbanned him in only 1 1/2 hours.. that was a little early, but it looks like it was ok 09:03:31 thin: Yes. 09:03:46 thin: I was going to try, and ban him again if there was any problems. 09:04:04 I don't save any browser histories... Let me see, though... 09:05:02 thin, do you read comp.lang.forth? 09:06:02 ASau: i read it some days b4 09:06:18 & i plan 2 read it regulary 09:06:40 ASau: save? 09:06:51 it is usually recorded automatically 09:06:57 what browser do u use? 09:07:24 Lynx or IE. But I set them not to save. 09:08:15 I think it's easier to explain... 09:08:48 Jeff always says that an OS doesn't need files. 09:09:03 Of course files are inefficient etc. 09:09:25 But I don't see another way in my case: 09:10:15 I used to solve too various problems, 09:10:57 from simple calculations up to modelling and articles/reports writing. 09:12:39 At this moment I'm tired of standard DOS' (and Win's) shell. 09:13:10 I got acquainted with bash and csh, but I don't see they help. 09:15:04 For the first time, I'd liked to have my Forth running as a shell for DOS. 09:16:27 well that's not hard 09:16:31 just make up a prompt in forth 09:16:45 and create a vocabulary of words like: dir cd etc 09:16:48 or whatever 09:17:11 or make it so that if it doesn't recognize a word 09:17:21 it checks the path directories 09:18:01 Hmm... 09:19:13 I meant this: do you know any good batch processing and control language? 09:31:53 bash, perl, python aim being 1 09:32:14 and they r not so unsuccesful.. 09:34:30 I dislike bash, it is too inadequate syntax and lacks names/string processing in adequate manner. 09:34:53 I don't want to consider perl at all. 09:34:58 --- join: XeF4 (placental@12-245-111-146.client.attbi.com) joined #forth 09:35:01 It is ugly. 09:35:18 Good evening, XeF4! 09:35:25 evening 09:35:59 Any link to python description? 09:37:17 python.org? 09:40:17 Yet another C-oid... 09:41:05 Yet another OO hell... 09:41:57 And garbage... 09:42:04 I hate this waste. 09:42:04 asau: yes i know a good batch processing and control language 09:42:06 it is called 09:42:08 forth 09:42:23 Any words? 09:42:28 make your own! 09:42:33 ;) 09:58:12 assumptions are the sign of a weak mind 10:01:19 --- quit: thin ("bye") 10:06:49 --- quit: XeF4 ("pois") 10:07:11 --- part: ASau left #forth 10:52:19 --- quit: joejoe () 10:56:50 --- join: XeF4 (abstrusity@12-245-111-146.client.attbi.com) joined #forth 11:09:20 --- join: I440r (~mark4@1Cust136.tnt2.bloomington.in.da.uu.net) joined #forth 11:30:15 Hi, I440r. 11:30:54 hi 11:31:11 i need to get back into coding isforth, i need to make some fixes and then finish that sockets code... 11:31:15 im being lazy again 11:31:32 :) 11:31:35 Don't be! 11:31:45 I coded some parsing stuff in IsForth.. 11:31:49 Easier than I thought. 11:32:01 Before I thought something like Parsing + Forth = MELTDOWN. 11:34:58 heh 11:45:15 --- quit: XeF4 ("pois") 12:12:36 --- join: Chef_ (~sam@m222.net81-65-249.noos.fr) joined #forth 12:22:08 chef! 12:22:24 heheh i had something i wanted to talk to you about but i forget what it was 12:22:29 it was very important tho :) 12:22:33 lol 12:22:39 its old age, you forget things 12:28:09 Heh. 12:28:19 I'm 16, and I forget what I'm thinking all the time. 12:28:22 It's not old age. 12:29:21 well thats because YOUR dumb. im a genius, i just forget things :P 12:29:27 heh 12:30:55 Pfff... 12:30:59 * Robert smacks I440r 12:31:17 Everyone knows that the more you forget, the smarter you are! 12:31:29 (Extra points for an ugly haircut= 12:40:39 I440r: if you find out what it was, let me know :) 12:43:54 lol 12:44:04 it was VERY important! heh 12:44:10 i remember that part hehe 12:44:20 Did you find a node on your finger? 12:44:39 eh ? 12:44:54 (common child thing, make a node with some tissue around your finger if you need to remember something) 12:45:43 oh its called a forgetme knot :) 12:45:47 Could someone explain CREATE/DOES> to me? 12:46:22 (note: the following query was only an attempt to wake up some people on this channel, I don't need an explanation :-) 12:47:32 (following->previous) 12:47:45 * Chef_ is tired... 12:48:04 heh 12:48:16 it took me years to understand create/does> 12:48:32 i was USING it, knew how to use it, just didnt understand HOW it did what it did 12:48:45 getting create/does> to work in isforth was the first major milesotone :) 12:49:42 Well, it's not trivial to implement it efficiently in a non-threaded Forth, especially when you have an optimizer... which you don't have :) 12:49:50 heh 12:50:26 i wish i could remember what that was i wanted to talk to you about heh 12:50:52 Don't you have a log of the last session? (I don't) 12:52:33 prolly not heh 13:24:33 Wow... the first frenchie today I've seen speaking proper english :) 13:27:45 Robert? 13:27:55 Hello :) 13:28:07 Can you speak French? :) Or capitalize "English" properly? 13:28:41 I usually don't capitalize everything proper in English, it's more strict than Swedish, but less strict than German. 13:29:14 Except for their stupid "I" thing, meaning: "I" am more important than "you", except if you're the Lord 13:29:17 In German, all nouns are capitalized, in Swedish, only names of persons, countries and companies are capitalized. 13:29:26 Right. 13:29:35 We don't capitalize e.g. weekdays. 13:29:37 Ich habe kein Deutsch vor zehn Jahren gesprochen... 13:30:09 Ich war dieses Jahr in Deutschland, aber ich habe nichts von was sie sagen verstanden. 13:30:10 We don't capitalize weekdays or monthes, although writing "Octobre" is a common mistake 13:30:17 (Probably wrong :-) 13:30:17 Robert :-))) 13:31:05 You know how onetom's interpretation of English looks like, right? 13:31:20 Nope, what/who is onetom? 13:31:36 A hungarian forther. 13:31:44 onetom: Introduce yourself to Chef_! 13:32:12 Anyway, he speaks like: hi rob how r u? i love 4th cuz its the best lang 2 program w/ 13:32:17 It's kind of hard to read. 13:32:22 Looks like a bot's name :-) (no offense intended, I started writing a Forth bot ten minutes ago because I got bored) 13:32:39 Oh, nice. 13:32:43 Eheheh, tech slang (for people with 9 fingers missing) 13:33:02 ;) 13:33:15 Will the dictionary be updated when people give it a word? 13:33:18 At this time, it can only answer PING commands sent by the server 13:33:33 Well, why not. I use a dictionary lookup to find the right IRC command 13:33:40 : find-command ( caddr n -- xt -1 | 0 ) also commands sfind previous ; 13:33:58 (it is only 60 lines long at this time) 13:34:02 Uhm.. is it a bot written in Forth (or FORTH, to capitalize correctly :-), or is it a Forth made for use via IRC? 13:34:18 commands is the vocabulary with the incoming commands (server->bot) 13:34:48 It's a bot written in Forth, but I guess that if I finish it (which will be the case unless my GF comes home before one hour) I'll add interpretation capabilities 13:35:06 (with a limited set of words of course, using a dedicated vocabulary, with no ! and @ :-) 13:35:19 (and no "execute" either) 13:35:22 The Forth IRC bots we got here (Herkamine's sif, for example), won't save compiled words. 13:35:29 Heh :) 13:35:42 * Robert asks for a 'system' word. 13:36:27 Dream on :) 13:37:01 * Robert continues dreaming. 13:37:41 I'm working on a stack based virtual machine, which I later will write a Forth for. 13:37:54 Then I can code Forth on my AVR chip :) 13:38:51 I'm working on my Pic Forth compiler, for my model railroad system, but I need a break (hence the bot) 13:40:00 Oh, nice. Using a 16f84? 13:40:28 I saw an 16f84 Forth compiler on the FIG page, is it not good enough? 13:40:45 AVR is actually a lot better than PIC. 13:41:00 (Except the prize, and flash/EEPROM write cycles). 13:41:06 I really like the architecture. 13:42:00 I think I'll use TI DSP for my next project 13:42:02 They look niec too 13:42:09 (However, I suck at electronics, so I can't do anything nice). 13:42:12 Damn school. 13:42:16 No, the 16f84 compiler is ugly (two of them exist, they are both bad) 13:42:29 They don't teach all important things. 13:43:44 You're working hard on optimization? 13:43:52 Yup 13:43:53 Very hard 13:44:12 (well, I teach compilation, so I know this area pretty well) 13:44:54 Oh, heh. 13:45:06 I might consider learning something about it in the future. 13:45:18 Now I just write the software without knowing what I am doing ;-) 13:45:22 Eheheh 13:45:37 Guess It'd be good for me to learn some new ideas. 13:45:58 Swedish school system is kind of retarded. 13:46:17 I'm 16, but I have less to do now than when I was 7. 13:46:47 In one way it's good, since I can concentrate on learning important things. 13:46:54 --- quit: skylan ("Reconnecting") 13:46:56 --- join: skylan (sjh@Riverview103.tbaytel.net) joined #forth 13:46:59 On the other hand, they don't provide me with any good material. 13:47:03 Get some on the net 13:47:04 Welcome back, skylan :) 13:47:08 There's plenty of it 13:47:20 Chef_: I guess so... I think my printer will collaps, though ;) 13:47:36 collapse* even. 13:47:59 Why print it? 13:48:10 Read it on screen (with "search" capabilities, this is even easier) 13:48:35 I find it hard to do that. When it's short text, it's OK, but not whole books. 13:49:07 Nothing beats a real book, or at least real paper. 13:50:06 For the toilet you mean? :) 13:50:47 For my bed, of course! 13:50:56 Where else should I read? :) 13:51:18 Well, in the bus, in the train, in the bath. I have a Palm for that 13:51:36 Heh! 13:51:45 I rarley leave my village. 13:51:57 And... reading in the shower is nothing I recommend. 13:52:09 That's why I wrote "bath", not "shower" :) 13:52:24 Yes... I just wanted to point out that I shower instead of bathing. 13:53:09 I'm not really a user of modern technology, I just love playing with it. I'm about the only one in this town without a cell phone. 13:53:30 (And that person is of course the only programmer. Life is paradoxal.) 13:55:11 How many people are you in your village? 13:57:46 Don't take me literaly :-) 13:57:55 A few thousands, I'd guess. 13:58:45 A few millions in mine :) (Paris) 13:58:52 Hehe. 13:59:01 I bet you can find more than one programmer there. 13:59:09 Quite a few 13:59:18 I wouldn't call Paris a village, by the way. 13:59:19 How do you remove the echo in gforth? 13:59:36 No idea. 13:59:49 Look through the sources >:) 14:00:20 Yup, but I don't want to modify them. I'll check with another compiler 14:01:37 IsForth? :) 14:02:19 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@ip-216-25-202-200.vienna.va.fcc.net) joined #forth 14:02:23 hiya all 14:02:27 Hi TheBlueWizard! 14:02:30 tbw dood sorry about last nite 14:02:33 got called away 14:02:43 and my email to paul vixie was denied 14:02:49 it bounced 14:03:04 so i resent it to postmaster and i got a "stop spamming me" reply 14:03:12 hiya Robert 14:03:19 hiya I440r 14:03:48 aww...Paul Vixie must be so hard to reach 14:03:58 I don't want to look stupid, but who is Paul Vixie? 14:04:12 vixie cron guy 14:04:18 also the guy who maintins teh RBL 14:04:24 google on RBL :) 14:05:24 * Robert giggles. 14:05:27 Er, googles. 14:05:37 hehe 14:05:53 * TheBlueWizard is now skimming some mailing list archive 14:06:34 "RBL ROMANTICA HOMEPAGE" 14:06:38 Wrong= 14:06:40 Wrong? 14:07:06 "mail-abuse.org/rbl/" <-- correct? 14:07:16 The "previously free and now expensive" RBL you mean 14:07:46 yes 14:07:58 he charges ? 14:07:59 wtf! 14:08:28 all he does is block open relays, spammers done even USE open relays any more 14:09:24 Mmm, no, they do. I maintain a RBL myself :) 14:09:30 will-spam-for-food.eu.org, you can query it 14:09:44 It's a friends projects, and we block tons of spams with it 14:10:34 chef spam has an origin. i wwrote vixie with a plan to totally cut off the ORAGIN 14:10:42 but he blocked my email as spam 14:10:44 fucking moron 14:10:50 I440r: :) 14:10:56 how many people subscribe to you rbl 14:11:33 I don't know, but major french ISP do (free.fr or teaser.fr for example) 14:11:53 cool 14:12:14 most us isp's subscribed to paul vixies rbl 14:12:18 dont know if they still do 14:25:26 Ola, "forther" is online, the most stupid Forth bot 14:25:56 Congratulations. 14:26:14 I spent 30 minutes trying to figure out how to inhibit this stupid gforth "echoing" behaviour 14:26:19 nono my forth bot is realy dumb heh 14:26:25 but its coded in isforth heh 14:26:25 How did you do it? 14:26:56 My Forth bot (also in IsForth, with my sockets code, since I440r didn't want to share his ;-), couldn't even reply to PINGs. 14:26:56 As soon as you finish the FreeBSD port :-)) 14:27:10 --- join: Forth (~Forth@1Cust136.tnt2.bloomington.in.da.uu.net) joined #forth 14:27:11 He didn't ping out anyway. 14:27:20 Robert: I use "socket" as a wrapper, so that I only have to use standard input/output 14:27:23 thers my forth bot heh 14:27:25 Forth: Good evening ;-) 14:27:33 Chef_: Nice. 14:27:55 Chef_: I used a quick hack, which was quite hard to use. 14:28:11 Mine is 76 lines, including 7 lines of workaround for gforth oddities... 14:30:04 I didn't count the number of lines I used... Did Gforth have any sort of socket support before? 14:30:13 Chef_ does gforth allow you to close a file descriptor ? 14:30:28 you could close stdout or detach from your controling terminal 14:30:41 I440r: I don't want to, I'd have to add socket code if I did 14:30:42 fork, exit from parent 14:30:48 have child close stdout 14:31:11 I440r: I know how to detach a program, but the goal is to only use stdin/stdout in my Forth bot, and the socket(1) program as a wrapper 14:31:41 aha 14:32:01 well, i dont use gforth hehe - my next release of isforth will have my sockets library in it 14:32:19 ill prolly also finish my irc bot as an example for the sockets code 14:32:30 that bot connects and just sits there heh 14:32:37 it cant do nuttin 14:32:37 yes 14:32:40 yet 14:32:46 * TheBlueWizard dr00ls over the anticipated next release ;) 14:33:31 heh 14:33:48 i need to get dns queries written and before i do that im going to fix a little goof in the previous release 14:35:08 --- join: Forther (~forth@m222.net81-65-249.noos.fr) joined #forth 14:35:08 * Forther sits there 14:35:30 Welcome to the stupidest bot ever born 14:35:43 hehe 14:35:51 you made forth DO something 14:35:54 forth cand DO anything 14:36:02 I never doubted it :) 14:36:27 Oh, it answers everyone, bad bad bad :) 14:36:30 --- quit: Forther (Remote closed the connection) 14:36:36 hehe 14:37:15 --- join: Forther (~forth@m222.net81-65-249.noos.fr) joined #forth 14:37:15 * Forther sits there 14:37:20 Are you fixed? 14:37:23 Looks like it is 14:37:30 It now only answers private messages 14:37:47 hehe 14:38:06 my bot doesnt reply to pings yet or nuttin i dont thing 14:38:08 think 14:38:35 You should, or it'll get killed. When you receive a message such as ":server PING :foobar", reply with "PONG :foobar" 14:39:32 --- quit: Forther (Remote closed the connection) 14:39:36 no. it replies to server ping 14:39:40 not user ping 14:44:54 --- quit: skylan (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 14:44:57 --- join: skylan (sjh@Rockcliffe74.tbaytel.net) joined #forth 14:49:37 --- join: corso (corso@1Cust234.tnt1.denver.co.da.uu.net) joined #forth 14:56:05 hey I440r 14:56:24 ya ? 14:56:30 http://serverdisk.sourceforge.net :) 14:56:49 your project ? 14:57:37 yup 14:57:40 of course :) 14:57:56 I need someone who has similar hardware and OS to bench it though 14:58:04 I dont think my benches are fair 14:59:47 hmmm 14:59:52 ahh I think I know how 15:02:53 --- quit: corso ("I am using hypNet v1.0b2 (unregistered) - http://at5.haxors.com/") 15:26:38 Chef_: u still here? 15:30:36 Oh, hi onetom :) 15:30:56 "When you're talking about the goblins, they're behind your back." 15:31:17 :) why do u say this? 15:31:28 (Stupid swedish saying... especially on IRC, since we use "troll" for goblin) 15:31:29 Hehe. 15:31:36 I talked with Chef_ about your English. 15:31:49 so what's Swedish for troll? :) 15:32:22 Robert: yeah, i saw it ;p 15:32:36 & i say simply "w", not w/ 15:32:46 TheBlueWizard: You mean, the IRC term "troll"? 15:32:56 i like his comparision (9fingers cut :) 15:33:03 onetom: ;) 15:33:09 onetom: How many fingers do you have? 15:33:20 mm lettt me count them....1 15:33:29 :D 15:33:48 oh, no! that wasnt my finger! sorry! ;)) 15:34:25 trolls are norwegan not sweedish :P 15:34:42 and the word is still "troll" 15:34:56 The're swedish, damnit! 15:34:57 what does MISC stands 4? 15:34:58 :) 15:35:00 Robert: you said that Swedish IRCers use "trolls" for goblins, so what if I want to say, "hey, you're a troll!"? 15:35:01 stand.. 15:35:03 no 15:35:06 norwegan 15:35:08 so there 15:35:16 Swedes are afraid of trolls, norwegian ARE trolls. 15:35:19 Minimal Instr Set Comp? 15:36:01 TheBlueWizard: "Hej, du är ett troll!" (Which of course makes everyone think of a little hairy creature - no, not a hobbit). 15:36:14 onetom: Heh. 15:36:18 That'd be cool. 15:37:17 cool 15:37:32 and..."hey, you are a goblin!"? :) 15:38:16 grrr... this ultratechnology site is pretty hard 2 reach nowdays 15:38:16 what about your side? 15:38:24 some1 should make an official mirror of it... 15:38:39 TheBlueWizard: Same thing. 15:38:56 TheBlueWizard: Just say that to a Swede, he'll be suprised. 15:39:09 anyone in here familiar with iptables ? 15:40:17 Uhm... I got some iptables up here to route to my Minix box connected via PPP. 15:40:26 But I know as close to nothing you can come :) 15:40:45 Robert: hmm...why would a Swede be surprised? 15:41:12 I440r: alas, I ain't familiar with iptable! 15:41:29 i just want to know how to make a specific rule create a log any time its hit 15:42:23 TheBlueWizard: Americans usually can't say that. 15:43:59 Robert: you mean Swedes assume American doesn't know how to speak Swedish? 15:44:25 anyone have 2 machines on a semi isolated network? 15:44:37 I need someone to run a siege bench on my httpd vs apache 15:44:37 I440r: did you ask that in #debian or #linux? 15:44:43 on the same hardware 15:45:05 * TheBlueWizard doesn't have such setup, sorry, cyberlok 15:45:11 damn 15:45:25 cyberlok: what hw? 15:45:29 I am tring to see if these errors are isolated just to my hardware 15:45:48 ummm really does not matter 15:45:49 what errors have u encountered? 15:45:53 x86 it has to be though 15:45:56 ummm 15:46:04 k, control me 15:46:11 i could help testing u 15:46:17 imean ur sw :) 15:46:19 well I was able to run a bench and not get any transaction errors 15:46:21 on my httpd 15:46:36 but now I am ... so I dont know if I have done something wrong 15:46:43 or if it is just a fluke 15:46:51 * onetom hunts food 15:46:53 TheBlueWizard: Yes, and if they do know a few words, it's usually not "Du är ett troll." 15:47:06 onetom well all you need is goto http://serverdisk.sourceforge.net 15:47:08 ah...hehe 15:47:21 download the tarball and buildyourself the disk 15:47:30 or I can for you if you tell me the network card you have 15:47:42 Ooops, GF back home 15:47:47 I wouldn't say that to an arbitrary Swedish stranger...might get punched in my nose :) 15:47:50 and what ip address you use on that machine etc 15:48:00 Bye guys 15:48:10 see ya Chef_ 15:48:20 --- part: Chef_ left #forth 15:50:28 TheBlueWizard: No, we're nice :) 15:51:07 lol...ok :) 15:51:19 I440r: I see you got an answer :) 15:51:25 on #debian 15:51:37 hmmm let me run this bench again with me tweaken the asm code another way 15:54:17 onetom you back yet? 15:54:35 just @ the very moment 15:54:39 hehe 15:55:18 msg me the network card ip you use and if any gateway you have or anything.. also if you have a dns server what ip that is and I will make you a disk to help me bench 15:56:15 # tar zxvf serverdisk-0.1.tar.gz 15:56:15 gzip: stdin: not in gzip format 15:56:15 tar: Child returned status 1 15:56:15 tar: Error exit delayed from previous errors 15:56:38 huh? 15:56:46 it works honest :) 15:56:46 exactly: huh? 15:56:49 hmmm 15:57:01 I will redo it again 15:57:23 actually in a couple seconds you can grab it off my serverdisk demo site 15:57:24 1,382,400bytes? 15:57:28 just bootin now 15:57:32 k 15:58:05 yeah 1382400 15:58:22 hey! 15:58:24 http://serverdisk.servehttp.com 15:58:33 its just a simple tar, not gzipped 15:58:42 really? 15:58:46 crap 15:58:47 really 15:58:58 bong! *thunk* *smack* 15:59:32 gzin now 15:59:38 thanks for the heads up 15:59:41 k, what next? 15:59:49 ok 15:59:52 after untaring, imean 15:59:53 you need your kernel 16:00:08 I dont include one cuz there are so many combinations it would be insane 16:00:09 &? 16:00:15 sure 16:00:49 simply put in minix floppy ramdisk default 10mb and compile in your network card (not module) 16:01:00 place that in the root of the tar file you downloaded 16:01:19 then go into ./root/etc/ 16:01:34 edit the rcS file in init.d 16:01:46 and I recommend you edit the ftpd.conf 16:02:21 then grab http://serverdisk.servehttp.com/httpd.asm 16:02:30 I use that for all my benching 16:02:44 just to keep things even in all 16:03:09 oh and edit ./root/etc/resolv.conf and put in a dns server if you use one 16:03:25 then go to the /serverdisk-0.1/ directory 16:03:29 type in something like 16:03:51 ./bootdisk-make ./kernel ./asmutils-binaries/ ./root/ > myimage.img 16:04:03 then just dd if=./myimage.img of=/dev/fd0 16:04:08 boot it 16:04:11 once booted 16:04:13 hit enter 16:04:19 type in run-services 16:04:27 and the ftpd and httpd will start up properly 16:04:30 oh yeah 16:04:43 ./root/etc/httpd/ is where you place the web files 16:04:56 along with the httpd.asm that your going to bench 16:05:27 oh, these r the things uve enlisted in README too 16:05:28 sorry, but i dont have so much time & intent 2 try it 16:05:28 i thought ud like 2 test ur httpd written in asm 16:05:28 but a tip: try it using vmware. its easy 2 play w so lowlevel stuff without rebooting 16:06:09 hehe I know 16:06:15 I just need diff hw 16:07:20 --- join: Chef (~sam@m222.net81-65-249.noos.fr) joined #forth 16:07:34 i440r, if you're around, Forther should be able to answer PING messages 16:07:44 This is the only intelligent thing it does though :) 16:07:51 Chef: hi! 16:08:05 Hi onetom 16:08:09 cyberlok: /me configs a kernel 4 ur sake ;) 16:08:26 Chef: i saw u r interested in pic 4thes 16:08:37 Chef: @least u have checked 2 of them 16:08:39 onetom: yup. So, you're missing fingers? 16:08:46 onetom: I have written the third :) 16:08:46 Chef: whats wring w them? 16:08:56 * TheBlueWizard pinged Forther, and got the reply :) 16:08:57 Chef: sure, i am! ;D 16:09:06 onetom: one of them is for DOS only, the other one comes in source but does not optimize aggressively enough 16:09:31 onetom the distro is rather simple 16:09:33 Chef: 1st is the f2p101.zip, i guess 16:09:34 Ooops, I've checked four of them, I forgot Mary. Mary is nice but doesn't meet my performance and user-friendliness expectations 16:09:38 it just needs a place to exist really 16:09:39 Chef: but what is the second? 16:09:40 onetom: yup 16:09:43 and know what your network card is 16:09:52 it does not even need a hd or anything else 16:10:04 onetom: the one from ram-tech 16:10:14 onetom: check http://www.ram-tech.co.uk/picmicro.htm 16:10:28 And it's for 16C84 only, while I use 16F876 and 16F873 16:11:20 Mine is (at this time) better than the 3, except that it lacks interactive mode of ram-tech one (I'll add that later). 16:11:44 You can check it at http://www.rfc1149.net/devel/picforth, at least when the machine is up (bi-annual power circuit maintenance, should be OK tomorrow) 16:12:02 Chef: so u havent met maryforth & its successor, picforth 16:12:16 onetom: I wrote picforth :) 16:12:20 cyberlok: hold on 16:12:26 Chef: ööööö :)))) 16:12:43 onetom I think by recompiling the kernel and taking out the header option it actually runs with less errors at higher levels but I am testing that to make sure 16:12:45 Chef: but u know about mary then! 16:12:50 the one you have has the headers enabled 16:12:55 Sure, it's even cited in PicForth's README 16:13:13 cyberlok: header option? 16:13:43 But I dislike many things: first, the generated code is often bogus. Second, it uses W as a cache for TOS, which leads to bad performance. Third, it was very hard to hack into. 16:13:47 Chef: but u still havent mentioned it amongst the 2 forthes earier this day 16:14:01 aha 16:14:14 onetom: which is why I wrote, a few lines ago: Ooops, I've checked four of them, I forgot Mary. Mary is nice but doesn't meet my performance and user-friendliness expectations 16:14:24 i also tried 2 hack it & 16:14:45 tried 2 figure out how can i add some codebank support extension 2 it 16:14:58 So, to summmarize: 1- DOS 2- Ram-Tech 3- Mary 4- PicForth (mine, which I continue to develop) 16:15:29 my fater is also pretty amused by ur development speed ;) 16:15:33 onetom: get a version of PicForth and give it a try, I am myself amazed by some code it generates :-) 16:15:48 me amazed too :) 16:15:50 onetom: sometimes, it does better than I would have done in assembly at the first phase 16:16:08 onetom: a Forth compiler is fast to write :-) 16:16:14 however its not clear what techniques do u use exactly 16:16:26 onetom take a look at httpd.asm 16:16:29 you will see a line 16:16:40 So long folks, girlfriend waiting for me, she doesn't like Forth a lot and will get upset if I stay here instead of my bed (1AM here) 16:16:44 its fast, sure, but im not experienced in this domain yet 16:16:48 ehh 16:16:49 onetom: more on that later, get the distro if you wanna check 16:16:55 bye Chef 16:16:57 %define SENDHEADER 16:17:02 when shell w talk later? 16:17:31 when shell we talk later? 16:17:37 onetom: maybe tomorrow night, or get the distro tomorrow night (I'll make a 0.9 version with a lot of new optimizations done today) and look at it, there is more comment than in previous versions 16:17:41 cyberlok: in which file? 16:17:41 --- quit: Chef ("Byue") 16:18:02 httpd.asm 16:18:19 you can find it on my demo site http://serverdisk.servehttp.com/httpd.asm 16:18:41 btw httpd and ftpd are from asmutils 16:18:44 just so you know 16:19:04 I was like 617 bytes or 37,000 16:19:13 so I picked the 617 16:20:12 maybe error404 hmmm 16:20:42 I have to fix the problem that does not let me include cgi support in httpd.asm 16:20:49 its on like 282 I believe 16:21:34 could u explain it meanwhile, why r those utils r so small in the bin dir? 16:21:58 why are they so small? 16:22:05 cuz it is direct asm 16:22:24 but they dont do param parsing, do they? 16:22:30 if they do, how? 16:22:58 what the /bin/httpd /etc/httpd 80 /etc/httpd/404.html ? 16:23:18 ? 16:23:36 you will see syntax in the ./root/bin/run-services 16:23:40 its just a shell script 16:23:43 1 16:23:50 oops 16:24:08 I think one could actually compile in the parameters 16:24:12 but that would be no fun 16:25:05 aaah, busybox! got it 16:25:13 it only does some 16:25:27 like uptime program 16:25:33 mount and umount and some others 16:25:39 gotta go...bye all 16:25:46 c ya 16:25:49 as those dont work properly when I compile the asm 16:25:53 * TheBlueWizard must eat...or will blue screen :) 16:25:55 bye TheBlueWizard 16:25:59 bye onetom 16:26:02 bye cyberlok 16:26:15 --- part: TheBlueWizard left #forth 16:26:21 oops again 16:26:42 i wasnt talkin about root/bin but asmutils-binaries 16:26:58 I dont know if in that version I have sh.asm doing shell or busybox 16:27:08 so, how do those do the parameter parsing? 16:27:12 I been flopping btwn the 2 tring to find one that does the best job 16:28:20 %define SENDHEADER 16:28:22 upps 16:28:33 cmp ebp,byte 3 ;at least 2 arguments must be there 16:28:40 right there 16:28:47 at the start point 16:29:02 the first one above this grabs anything specified at the prompt 16:30:37 the about 20 lines below this parse the line more into different meanings 16:30:48 and stuff them into variables 16:30:51 * onetom is back configuring the kernel 16:31:38 aha 16:31:54 where r the sources 4 those utils? 16:32:08 like I said asmutils :) 16:32:13 look on freshmeat :) 16:32:18 ah, okay 16:32:28 very nice stuff 16:32:30 im a bit confused tonight, sorry :) 16:32:34 just need the cgi fixed up 16:32:50 and in about 700 bytes a full html/cgi webserver will be possible 16:33:12 virtual hosts though probably make it go up to like 1k 16:34:38 what FSes should i use? 16:35:15 cyberlok: i like ur minimalism ;) 16:36:11 i wonder a similar system, say, written in machineforth could also b so small 16:36:39 its the plan man 16:36:39 but far more portable, while certainly slower 2, but 16:36:46 oh, really :))) 16:36:49 I done tol I440r :) 16:37:05 well 16:37:20 I think forth on none critical programs would rule 16:37:22 example 16:37:27 1k irc client 16:37:33 1k ftp client 16:37:39 5k ssh client ;) 16:37:47 :] 16:37:55 turn it into a mega cool stuff 16:38:03 webserver would be nice 16:38:13 but I have no idea how small forth could make it 16:38:13 * onetom hunts some milk 16:38:28 a single small lib for everything would rule 16:38:34 infact, there r small stuffs exist 4 palm pilot forexample 16:38:35 that is what really kills diskette distros 16:39:00 hence why I went asm 16:39:00 they have ssh in less than 100k iirc 16:39:05 cuz they dont need libs :) 16:39:16 wtf ? 16:39:20 I been lookin 16:39:44 they also share the srcz 16:39:52 written in C as usually 16:39:55 usual 16:40:03 C is nice 16:40:05 C is ood 16:40:07 good 16:40:08 but 16:40:23 C != efficient enough for diskette distros 16:40:28 Most of the time anyways 16:43:12 what my distro is missing right now is multi user 16:43:22 I need that so when I get cgi working 16:43:31 httpd can run as nobody and be chrooted 16:43:45 as well as any other service running that needs it 16:43:58 mini should not mean insecure :) 16:44:33 although I debate shadow password files on such a small system 16:44:38 --- join: root (root@salm-m2-34.wvi.com) joined #forth 16:44:41 werd all 16:44:47 as it adds on k's that I dont think need to be 16:44:52 for such a small system 16:44:55 hey root 16:45:01 one moment 16:45:02 --- quit: root (Client Quit) 16:45:06 :)) 16:45:30 --- join: kp2 (kp2@salm-m2-34.wvi.com) joined #forth 16:45:41 I should know better than to log on to irc as root ;-) 16:45:52 I also want to stay away as much as I can from packaging sections 16:45:54 you know 16:46:04 boot put in another disk bootin still put in another disk 16:46:07 that thing 16:46:12 blah, so now I'm the new maintainer of pfe 16:46:17 :-) 16:46:19 pfe? 16:46:21 I'm very happy about that 16:46:39 cyberlok : portable forth environment, IMHO the best forth interpreter available 16:46:47 brb 16:46:49 --- quit: kp2 (Client Quit) 16:47:06 lol 16:47:14 busy man 16:47:35 done making your disk onetom? 16:49:04 sure 16:49:11 just fired make dep 16:49:11 I am also working on bz2bzImage 16:49:21 I am currious how much smaller it will make the image 16:49:27 sorry 4 being so slow, but im doing multitaskin :) 16:55:36 oh kick ass 16:55:46 it even gives me bz2 ramdisk support 16:55:49 --- join: kp2 (kp2@salm-m2-36.wvi.com) joined #forth 16:55:52 back 16:55:56 --- nick: kp2 -> Kp2 16:56:19 btw I think if this is successful I will list what I am doing in the README 16:56:20 hi 16:56:36 kp2 16:56:55 cyberlok: k, im gonna inform u when i was successful 16:57:06 sucessful in what? 16:57:26 kp2 I made a diskette distro I need benching and testing on 16:57:35 http://serverdisk.sourceforge.net 16:57:38 trying 2 reproduce cyberloks serverdisk distro overhere 16:57:46 onetom I also fixed the tar.gz thing hehe thanks 16:58:03 its all in the README 16:58:04 Kp2: could u give us an informal intro about pfe? 16:58:09 should be simple enough 16:58:22 will read the readme 16:58:23 onetom : sure thing 16:59:03 basically, pfe is a modularized forth interpreter. That's a good thing because it is both extremely portable and amazingly versatile 16:59:08 Kp2: advantages, disadvantages, threading model, multitasking type, libs, linkability ... 16:59:38 suppose you want to use the same environment for an embedded system and ,say, a crane 16:59:42 cyberlok: :/ i got a 900k kernel... 17:00:11 pfe allows you to swap the terminal code for whatever you like, as with most of the C code for the forth language 17:00:18 take what you want, leave what you don't 17:00:30 900k 17:00:33 holy crap 17:00:39 you need to trim you fool 17:00:44 you probably 17:00:49 have sound support in it 17:00:51 cyberlok: do i need /proc & /dev/pts support? 17:00:51 and scsi 17:00:59 and ide and god knows what else 17:01:10 "/proc" is all you need 17:01:18 I should specify that in the readme 17:01:22 thanks I will note that down 17:01:48 no, i dont have snd support 17:01:51 cyberlok : use modules 17:02:19 cyberlok : well, that actually won't help much 17:02:28 probably end up with more cruft to cram on the disk 17:02:53 Kp2 exactly 17:03:09 modules means bigger 17:03:11 unless 17:03:18 I am making a kernel and people load modules 17:03:25 : truth ." The answer is: " ; truth noname ." Yes" ; noname ." No" ; swap swap swap swap swap swap swap drop execute ; 17:03:26 but I dont want to go that way 17:03:35 cyberlok: & yes, u were right, there also were scsi support. but where is floppy support? 17:03:43 yup 17:03:49 put in floppy 17:03:57 so you can backup files if you want 17:03:57 Robert: lol 17:04:00 Bleh. 17:04:01 Anyway. 17:04:04 Good night. 17:04:07 hell I even put in vfat support 17:04:17 so I can load the same files onto my windows machine 17:04:55 cyberlok: hey , i was asking u in which category can i find the floppy support in the linux kernel config 17:05:09 block devs ,ok got it 17:06:16 onetom : got ntop? 17:06:26 ntop? whats that? 17:06:45 onetom : never used ntop? very cool web-base network monitor 17:07:06 cyberlok: 640k 17:07:30 cyberlok: still huge.. :( 17:07:43 cyberlok: what should b the desired size? 17:07:47 onetom : ntop.org 17:07:55 Kp2: not yet 17:08:09 cyberlok : ever thought about using a 2.0.x kernel? 17:08:55 cyberlok : lord knows that you won't want devfs or need anything better than ipfw (ipfw is 2.0 isn't it? 17:09:16 Kp2: i havent dealt w networks much. i mainly do embedded programming. my current zope job is just an exception ;) 17:09:50 kp2 hmmm I was actually thinking 2.2 17:09:53 Kp2: what os do u use? 17:09:56 onetom : ahh... I'm actually a computer engineering major 17:09:57 kind of new but not to old 17:10:04 onetom : linux mostly, some IRIX 17:10:08 cyberlok: i tried 2.4.19 17:10:16 but there are some network cards that wont work in 2.2 cuz they are a 2.4 thing 17:10:25 cyberlok : true 17:10:30 Kp2: bsd? dont feel any urge 2 try it? 17:10:31 640k is about right my boy! :) 17:10:34 you hit it on the nose 17:10:42 --- quit: skylan (Remote closed the connection) 17:10:45 --- join: skylan (sjh@207.164.213.86) joined #forth 17:10:45 I have a 550 k but you have what you have it should work 17:10:51 cyberlok: lol 17:11:09 onetom : I've used BSD... I have some sort of odd attachment to linux 17:11:10 just need about 400k worth of room 17:11:19 k, /me is tryin 2 make the img 17:12:23 cyberlok : why not write a script that generates a custom kernel for each download? 17:12:43 kp2 cuz I made this in a day ;) 17:12:44 cyberlok : then you could cut it down to about 350k 17:12:48 cyberlok : ahh 17:13:03 and I am not all the famous for scripting 17:13:12 if someone would make me one ;) I would like it :) 17:13:21 cyberlok : I'd be willing to write some 31337 p3r1 c0d3z 17:13:43 cyberlok : just make a simple .asp page and a little helper script 17:14:33 <- sourceforge'er 17:14:38 asp is not an option 17:14:53 ahh 17:14:56 nevermind then 17:15:03 I was thinking bash 17:15:25 well, there's always the possibility of making a package that generates a disk image 17:15:29 that'd be fun 17:15:37 yeah 17:15:53 I did include the kernel source once you just needed to put in your network card and compile 17:16:05 but then I got yelled at for the 23mb size 17:16:22 Kernelsize: 550 KB 17:16:28 compressed root image size: 753 KB 17:16:43 the 753 includes the 382k tarball I host on the demo site 17:17:12 ds: no socket drivers loaded! 17:17:23 VFS: Insert root floppy and press ENTER 17:17:24 17:17:35 Kernel panic: VFS: Unable 2 mount ... 17:17:42 compressed root image + kernel: 930 KB 17:17:43 hehe 17:17:52 wtf 17:17:59 exactly :) 17:18:09 no if you used the ./bootdisk-make 17:18:14 it does everything 17:18:18 could u compile me a kernel w AMD PCInet nic support? 17:18:21 it should all be on one disk 17:18:33 i used it of course 17:18:40 the amd pcinet pcnet network card? 17:18:51 i know, but still 17:18:51 I think you have the exact one I use 17:19:02 yeah, that 1 17:19:03 gimme a sec I will upload to my server for you to download 17:19:13 no, i dont think :) 17:19:18 i use vmware ;) 17:19:45 what about a /dcc send onetom cyberkerenl? 17:20:00 fw cant 17:20:05 k 17:20:25 http://serverdisk.servehttp.com/kerne-amd-pcnet 17:20:34 http://serverdisk.servehttp.com/kernel-amd-pcnet 17:22:32 ht2:~/serverdisk-0.1# wget http://serverdisk.servehttp.com/kernel-amd-pcnet 17:22:32 --02:21:38-- http://serverdisk.servehttp.com/kernel-amd-pcnet 17:22:32 => `kernel-amd-pcnet.1' 17:22:32 Resolving serverdisk.servehttp.com... done. 17:22:32 Connecting to serverdisk.servehttp.com[63.228.32.91]:80... connected. 17:22:35 HTTP request sent, awaiting response... 17:22:38 02:21:39 ERROR -1: Malformed status line. 17:22:50 use lynx 17:22:52 tho opera dls it 17:22:58 yeah 17:23:03 I have to fix that 17:23:07 sure sure, but its not intended i think 17:23:15 I have to find out what communication is going on that it is failing 17:23:20 yeah, thats what i thought of ;) 17:23:42 i think u dont report filesize (correctly) 17:23:55 coz operas progressbar didnt work 17:24:32 should be 550k 17:27:21 hm... the kernel complains about sector not found track 50 head 0 sector 7 size 2 17:28:05 that is a floppy problem 17:28:07 and finally says invalid compressed format (err=1)<5>VFS: Insert root floppy... 17:28:17 virtual floppy problem, sure... 17:28:45 i think we should pad it 2 1.44M shouldnt we? 17:29:00 u dont know much about vmware, do u? 17:29:04 neither i 17:30:19 hmm 17:32:43 k 17:32:48 got it working 17:32:55 paddin helped 17:33:09 dd if=/dev/zero of=blank bs=10k count=144 17:33:15 cat serverdisk.img blank > temp.img 17:33:17 cp temp.img serverdisk.img 17:35:57 btw, why do u use dd so extensively? 17:36:29 simple cats would also b sufficient, wouldnt they? 17:36:58 or the root img must b 1k aligned? 17:38:44 --- quit: Kp2 (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 17:39:15 onetom it is what I am use to actually is all 17:39:16 hey 17:39:29 can you edit the bootdisk-make script put that in to automate it 17:39:48 maybe do bs=1k count=1440 ? 17:40:01 would this work for 1700k disks? 17:40:30 ? dunno 17:41:09 could you add those to the bootdisk-make script and email it to cyberlok@cyberlok.hopto.org ? 17:41:17 hmm... i cant ftp into the sys 17:41:23 thats already a potential bug fix 17:41:34 you need to run /bin/run-services 17:41:44 ah, sure sure, sorry 17:42:19 much better :) 17:42:29 ironic we have the same network card hehe 17:42:45 while mine is just virtual ;) 17:42:56 pfft :) 17:43:03 >:D 17:43:18 --- join: kp2 (kp2@salm-m2-7.wvi.com) joined #forth 17:43:18 btw, why dont u use vmware? 17:43:20 back 17:43:24 do u use X? 17:43:26 $$$$ 17:43:43 I have vmware, but it works like shit with 2.4 kernels 17:43:46 no, its free 4 non-commercial usage 17:43:55 onetom : used to be 17:43:57 for like 3 weeks 17:44:02 kp2: it works just fine 4 me 17:44:19 onetom : I dunno, I had to fix the kernel module code to get mine to compile 17:44:35 Im downloading 2.4.10 now cuz I want to get this bz2bzImage patch working 17:44:35 cyberlok: but u can obtain a new key 4 free every month 17:44:47 makes the ramdisk more compressed and the kernel 17:45:04 onetom bah I say 17:45:12 shit, be back in a second 17:46:11 kp2: i use the default 2.4.18-686 that comes w debian. 17:46:18 squeeze like an extra 100k would be worth it 17:46:25 & vm3.1 works just fine 17:46:36 btw, bochs is also pretty usable 17:46:54 eg, it runs enth/flux perfectly 4 me (tho, its damn slow :) 17:46:57 nah I will keep things simple for me 17:47:14 --- join: kp2_ (kp2@salm-m2-10.wvi.com) joined #forth 17:47:15 probably i should give a chance 2 plex86 also 17:47:16 ahh almost done 17:47:30 onetom : plex86 isn't that great, yet 17:47:32 bochs works 17:48:00 cyberlok: vm makes life really easier! i also didnt believe it 1st, but now... haahhaaaa 17:48:26 kp2_: but bochs is just a simulator, and dog slow accordingly 17:48:40 onetom : so true 17:49:23 cyberlok: what next? 17:49:33 plan 9 is so cool 17:50:15 u r not the 1st 1 who says it :) 17:50:20 does it run on x86? 17:50:35 ometom 17:50:37 ummm 17:50:42 you have a linux machine right? 17:50:47 debian you said 17:50:55 apt-get install siege 17:50:56 cyberlok : yeah 17:51:00 cyberlok : debian 17:51:28 ht2:~/serverdisk-0.1# telnet 10.1.1.100 80 17:51:28 Trying 10.1.1.100... 17:51:28 Connected to 10.1.1.100. 17:51:28 Escape character is '^]'. 17:51:28 GET http://10.1.1.100/README HTTP/1.1 17:51:31 Connection closed by foreign host. 17:51:44 cyberlok: done 17:52:03 ok 17:52:05 now 17:52:22 run siege to see syntax 17:52:30 k 17:52:33 & 17:52:42 take the httpd.asm file from http://serverdisk.servehttp.com/httpd.asm 17:52:48 ftp upload it to your webserver 17:52:55 in /etc/httpd/ 17:53:06 then just run something like 17:53:55 siege -c 200 -n --url="http://10.1.1.100/httpd.asm" 17:54:02 wow... I like the LCARS theme for mozilla 17:54:04 siege -c 200 -b --url="http://10.1.1.100/httpd.asm" 17:54:09 not -n -b 17:54:16 just -b 17:54:43 so you test 200 users bench it in url http://10.1.1.100/httpd.asm 17:55:45 Alert!: Unexpected network read error; connection aborted. 17:55:48 Alert!: Unable to access document. 17:57:01 kp2_: url? 17:57:46 onetom : for? 17:57:54 LCARS 17:58:03 huh it works for me 17:58:08 onetom: it's on themes.freshmeat.net 17:58:20 onetom: under Applications::Mozilla 17:58:51 onetom : I thought it would look kinda goofy, but now that I have it I never want to go back 17:59:02 personally, I'm already over aqua 17:59:18 aqua used to cool, but now it's just dated 18:01:54 onetom did you upload the httpd.asm to your web directory? 18:02:51 i did, but somehow it hasnt been stored 18:03:10 trying 2 figure out the problem 18:03:34 while im also checking the themes kp2 adviced :) 18:04:25 * kp2_ grins 18:04:36 did you edit the ftpd.conf and put in your login you wanted before you made the disk? 18:04:42 sec 18:04:45 you should have used the user password spot 18:04:53 I think it is flag level 3 18:05:44 --- nick: kp2_ -> Kp2_ 18:05:51 --- quit: kp2 (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 18:08:05 kp2: what have u used pfe 4 yet? 18:08:24 cyberlok: 18:08:24 Error: unable to unable to establish a socket: Interrupted system call 18:08:24 CONNECT: timed out. 18:08:32 its a siege meg 18:08:34 msg 18:08:58 onetom : I've used pfe for a robot 18:09:49 controlled by a pc or microcontroler? 18:10:06 onetom : microcontroller 18:10:18 onetom : it was a 68000 based controller 18:10:33 c 18:10:36 onetom : I was able to compile pfe and its terminal module in 32k 18:11:09 onetom : burnt it to a 64k PROM, forth interpreter was 32k, OS and support libaries in the other 32k 18:11:12 will do 18:11:32 I really had to strip pfe down to do it 18:14:05 im dealing w PICs 18:14:23 onetom : fun... I don't know about getting a forth interpreter on one of those, though 18:14:30 they r more "resourceless" :) 18:14:38 onetom : I am writing in verilog a forth native processor 18:14:42 onetom it may be a result of vmware 18:14:53 since we are talkin about direct calls 18:14:54 there is eforth for 17c42 18:14:55 onetom : PIC's have "resources"? 18:15:14 imean, prg&data meme 18:15:16 memory 18:15:24 Im still seeing if bz2bzImage will work 18:15:33 onetom did you email me your paddin fix? 18:15:46 onetom : it was a joke ;-) 18:16:03 Kp2_: thats must b fun. i also wondered doing it sometimes 18:16:14 Kp2_: ah, k :) 18:16:29 cyberlok: no, i havent really fixed it :) 18:16:51 cyberlok: coz appending a fix 1440k file is pretty ugly 18:17:09 onetom : verilog is a lot of fun. The shitty part is that I have to learn VHDL for college 18:17:17 cyberlok: and i would give error msg when dding it 2 a real floppydisk 18:17:29 Kp2_: same 4 me :) 18:18:27 Kp2_: tho, not vhdl exatly, just general electronics like building sequential nets 18:18:48 onetom : ahh... I'm a computer engineering major, so I gotta learn VHDL 18:19:00 onetom : it's sick, verilog is so much better designed 18:19:23 hmmmm 18:19:29 verilog isnt a company? 18:19:33 onetom : no 18:19:38 onetom : verilog is a language 18:19:54 and VHDL doesnt mean Verilog ... Descr Lang? 18:20:20 wow... I like my HP49 18:20:35 it practically has a forth interpreter built in 18:20:51 cyberlok: does siege run until 1 ctrl-c it? 18:21:30 no 18:21:38 it will eventually end 18:21:46 usually takes about a minute 18:21:50 it doesnt end 4 me 18:21:55 aha 18:21:55 sometimes more if it take a bit for your comp to make the stats 18:22:00 but still 18:22:00 ok 18:22:01 no 18:22:03 np 18:22:13 add --time="1M" 18:22:24 will try 18:22:37 im trying w -c 20 18:22:41 keep in mind it will take a bit cuz we are talkin stats of 200 concurrent users 18:22:41 now 18:22:44 ahhh 18:22:46 umm 18:22:54 it doesnt give errors this way 18:23:07 so do you know how the image people make a disk image always of the size like 1.7 mb or 1.44 no matter what? 18:23:44 idont 18:24:10 Transactions: 8007 hits 18:24:10 Elapsed time: 300.47 secs 18:24:10 Data transferred: 90951513 bytes 18:24:10 Response time: 0.74 secs 18:24:10 Transaction rate: 26.65 trans/sec 18:24:13 Throughput: 302697.48 bytes/sec 18:24:15 Concurrency: 19.76 18:24:18 Successful transactions: 8007 18:24:20 Failed transactions: 0 18:24:23 after i have ctrl-ced it 18:24:26 ht2:~/serverdisk-0.1# siege -c 20 -b --url="http://10.1.1.100/httpd.asm" 18:24:33 it was the cmd line 18:24:35 hmm 18:24:37 ok 18:24:57 ok also 18:25:01 add a -r 1 18:25:11 k, but what is it? 18:25:14 so it only does one loop 18:25:28 yours might be doing like 30 loops or something 18:25:50 ht2:~/serverdisk-0.1# siege -c 200 -b -r 1 --url="http://10.1.1.100/httpd.asm" 18:25:56 Transactions: 200 hits 18:25:57 Elapsed time: 8.37 secs 18:25:57 Data transferred: 2271800 bytes 18:25:57 Response time: 0.10 secs 18:25:57 Transaction rate: 23.89 trans/sec 18:25:59 Throughput: 271421.75 bytes/sec 18:26:01 Concurrency: 2.40 18:26:04 Successful transactions: 200 18:26:07 Failed transactions: 0 18:26:16 ok now try mine 18:26:19 I default to 25 18:26:25 so it would be -r 25 18:26:26 so it doesnt fail while using -r 1 18:26:43 I slam my machines :) 18:27:05 I actually put them through enough that you would have to host like a serious site before it would even become a factor 18:27:08 do these results make u happy? 18:27:49 yes 18:27:56 I can infact make you a script 18:28:04 of what I want runned 18:28:13 and then like email me the resulting files 18:28:26 but mind that httpd was running inside vmware, emulated 18:28:49 are you emu'ing within linux? 18:28:50 so the actual net connection was realised in software 18:28:54 or is it on a windows machine? 18:29:01 no, linux 18:29:08 does not matter if your apache is also local 18:29:21 in which case all things would be pritty much equal 18:29:46 hmmm... true :) 18:30:21 im using an 1GHz celeron, 128M ram 18:31:45 onetom : 1.2GHz M-P3, 256 Ram 18:31:53 onetom : I got a studly laptop ;-) 18:33:38 * onetom envies :) 18:34:36 * Kp2_ grins 18:34:52 it's a dell inspiron 8100 18:37:27 i also plan 2 buy some laptop coz me gf works 2.5hrs away by train 18:39:35 makes work easier 19:02:24 fun stuff 19:16:50 --- quit: onetom (card.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) 19:19:22 --- join: onetom (~tom@novtan.bio.u-szeged.hu) joined #forth 19:19:26 wb 19:20:06 alright bz2bzImage works with 2.4.18 19:25:04 2.4.18 is working thus far 19:25:16 afk 19:31:51 --- quit: Kp2_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 19:39:11 cyberlok: how large is the kernel&rd this way? 19:45:33 --- quit: skylan (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 19:53:37 --- join: skylan (sjh@207.164.213.52) joined #forth 20:12:49 --- quit: skylan ("Reconnecting") 20:12:52 --- join: skylan (sjh@Riverview7.tbaytel.net) joined #forth 20:30:55 --- quit: cyberlok () 20:33:45 --- join: cyberlok (CyberLOK@cyberlok.no-ip.com) joined #forth 20:34:47 back 20:35:09 k 20:36:00 Sup, all? 20:36:26 just hackin a mini server oriented linux distro 20:36:34 onetom how do you boot the disk? 20:36:35 Cool. 20:36:42 using vmware? 20:36:53 cyberlok: u create a vm config 20:37:03 yes but you have to include a hd? 20:37:05 and setup a floppy 4 it 20:37:22 but u choose the "File" device type 20:37:34 no, u dont have 2 20:37:43 dont run the wizard 20:37:49 just do it by hand 20:37:55 kk 20:39:17 --- join: air (~cria-user@12-254-199-50.client.attbi.com) joined #forth 20:40:27 hehe the bootimage takes longer 20:41:17 takes longer 2 do what & longer than what? 20:41:23 then the usual 20:41:25 the gz 20:41:44 longer 2 extract? 20:41:46 compressed root image + kernel: 1251 KB 20:41:51 100k saved :) 20:41:57 roughly 20:43:47 mine is bigger cuz it contains the tarball of the distro 20:43:57 are there any good forth operating systems? 20:44:25 I know of no kernel made from 4th 20:44:48 air: enth/flux 20:45:29 air: & tcn's forthos is also considered very good, tho i havent tried it yet, coz it requires grubs as its bootloader 20:46:27 its workin... 20:46:28 & there is also an eCos+FICL couple 2 20:46:32 onetom: thanks 20:46:35 * cyberlok does the bz2 working dance 20:46:48 air: me glad2help ya 20:47:09 cyberlok: do u like vm? 20:48:04 tcn hasnt updated retro since nov2001 20:48:18 but its still cool 20:48:43 good sw doesnt need frequent updates ;) 20:49:09 but incomplete software does :) 20:49:13 lol 20:51:46 onetom I am seein behavior I have not seen before 20:52:23 so vm is not prefect 20:52:50 no it isnt 20:52:57 but it helps me make sure it boots 20:52:58 but probably ur sw neither is 20:52:59 which is nice 20:53:04 it is the majority of my work 20:53:23 its cuz it is asm 20:53:27 I have a feelin 20:53:36 :) 20:53:49 it does not make general calls like c or others 20:53:53 it makes a direct call 20:54:31 ghttpd will probably fix the behavior if your gonna run it off vmware 20:54:38 since ghttpd is made in c 20:55:38 then if I run this in like cramfs 20:55:46 it will rule all I think 20:56:03 although I would not run it in cramfs mode on another less then a 586 20:56:51 bino 20:56:54 bingo 20:57:02 fixed 20:57:05 ;) 20:57:21 Im gonna release a new edition on monday 20:57:37 include the fix for httpd I just made in vmware 20:57:49 include a kernel for vmware 20:57:55 include patch for bz2bzImage 20:58:12 right! 20:58:32 I have it now including a copy of itself in about 1mb 20:58:34 tho, u shouldnt include the patch, just a link, i think.. 20:58:35 ;) 20:58:43 no 20:58:44 I will 20:58:52 cuz only 1 person has the patch anymore 20:58:57 need to keep it safe 20:59:20 the original developer of it has left gone away never seen again 20:59:26 for all we know is dead 20:59:44 umean, 1 MORE person ... 21:00:02 and the kernel developers wont accept it into the official release either 21:00:10 it is on toms wiki 21:00:12 than its okay 21:00:23 yes, i saw the url 21:00:30 gonna burn the sucker to cd :) 21:00:49 u can also test the cd in vmware ;) 21:01:02 yeah 21:02:03 afk 21:02:30 afk = afaik ? 21:03:43 away from keyboard 21:04:01 ah, god, must b go 2 bed :)) 21:04:17 i knew it just havent recognized 21:06:24 & i simply use brb instead usually 21:07:13 maybe he isnt gonna brb :) 21:07:24 no then I would say l8tr 21:07:31 back btw 21:07:34 thats the bbl case then ;) 21:07:46 afk is for when I wont brb i would be longer then that 21:08:34 just appling the new stuff to my disk and rebooting the demo site 21:08:36 afk can replace brb when there is a chance u might get hit by a bus while away 21:08:46 haha 21:09:00 :) 21:09:54 I think I found a good shell to use btwn asm and busybox called cash 21:10:40 C again SHell? ;) 21:11:27 yup 21:11:39 busybox shell is kind of well.. huge 21:11:45 for what I need at least 21:12:09 You've got a 1 meg kernel and you're worried about the shell size? 21:15:32 no 21:15:46 1mb kernel + apps + tarball of distro 21:15:57 but that is my distro demo disk 21:16:03 so people can download the tarball 21:16:08 once the see the demo site 21:16:19 I dont think you can boot a 1mb kernel 21:16:37 my kernel is almost 450k bz2'ed 21:18:32 I need to learn how to pad all images to 1.44mb 21:18:48 so they can be written normally by odd floppy drives 21:20:25 Oh. 450k is OK. 21:21:54 its almost nothing :) 21:22:21 almost... ;) 21:23:10 * cyberlok says I have a smaller kernel they you do.. I have a smaller kernel then you do :) 21:23:14 hehe 21:23:41 "it's not the kernel, it's the driver" 21:24:32 * cyberlok pets his 486 machine 21:24:57 hell Im probably gonna release 0.2 tommorow 21:25:07 just looking over some script right now 21:25:13 learning about padding 21:25:30 cyberlok: im thinking on the 1440k problem 21:25:35 me2 :) 21:26:23 cyberlok : What exactly is it? A bootimage with busybox and gforth on it? 21:27:38 notrunc 21:27:38 do not truncate the output file 21:27:40 ummm no forth "yet" 21:27:52 onetom 21:27:54 cyberlok: that code will pad a file 21:28:00 prep for 1.7 instead 21:28:00 cyberlok : What clib are you using? uClibc? 21:28:06 since I will easily break 1.44 soon 21:28:12 yes 21:28:37 what is mk_floppy.c ? 21:28:44 where? 21:28:53 it will pad the image file to 1.44meg 21:29:20 cyberlok : Cool. Wanna use my forth? 27K for the compiled program and system library. 21:29:37 dd if=/dev/zero of=xxx bs=1k count=10 21:29:40 dd if=yyy of=xxx bs=1k count=10 conv=notruncû 21:29:47 air ahh 21:29:50 tr -d û 21:30:00 if I set it to 1.7 will it work? 21:30:25 what prog you got going Fractal? 21:30:58 onetom if you get it scripted first 21:31:00 then show 21:31:02 FRUGAL 21:31:09 or I will go cross eyed 21:31:18 frugal? 21:31:24 cyberlok: do u know how many sectors a 1.7meg floppy has? 21:31:48 Yeah, the only cool thing it's got going now is a pong game. But it's kinda fun, eh onetom? 21:33:11 coo 21:33:21 air unfortunatly no 21:33:27 let me check tomsrtbt 21:33:29 ;) 21:33:51 Fractal: sure sure !!! :) 21:34:18 dd if=tomsrtbt.raw of=$FD count=$DZ 21:34:20 cyberlok: fractals 4th is pretty cute! so mind it when u r thinkinb about including a 4th :) 21:34:23 cyberlok: just change the 2880 to the number of sectors 21:34:25 DZ would be sectors right? 21:34:25 Heh. 21:34:50 i dont know 21:35:06 Heh. Thanks, onetom. :) 21:35:11 ;) 21:35:12 DZ=3444 21:35:22 looks about right 21:35:47 if 2880 is 1440 21:38:35 testing 21:41:09 bingo it works thanks air 21:42:00 who owns this c ? 21:42:46 i do 21:43:15 ahh 21:43:24 I just want to put credit where credit is do ;) 21:45:02 do you want me to mention nick irc network channel or is your name enough? 21:45:05 totally up to you 21:45:56 name is enuf 21:46:38 why do u need to give me credit? 21:46:43 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1280917 Sep 21 22:31 myimage.img 21:46:43 -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 1763328 Sep 21 22:39 myimage_1.76M.img 21:46:48 most wonderful 21:46:54 just cuz 21:47:13 I dont want to leave people feeling like I am only a taker in all 21:48:21 make sure u gzip that image to compress the zeros 21:48:41 ummm 21:48:53 what I am going to do is make the disk imae 21:48:55 imae 21:49:01 damn "g" key again 21:49:03 anyways 21:49:13 I am going to make the image then run mk_floppy 21:49:23 otherwise I end up with the same dang size... 21:49:35 right, but if u give it to others u probably wanna compress the zeros 21:49:40 the ramdisk takes care of making ram space 21:49:51 oh yeah 21:49:52 it will remove the extra 500k 21:49:52 duh 21:50:12 so it is 900k but ungz'ed its 1.7 duh 21:50:15 *bink* 21:50:24 *bonk* again 21:50:29 c u 2morrow night 21:50:36 night dude 21:50:37 cya 21:50:42 Later. 21:50:46 testing time 21:50:52 *cross fingers* 21:51:14 now making the image then directly dd'ing should do it right 21:51:32 I remmeber making a 1.5mb image and it not working 21:51:49 maybe needs to be formated in 1.76 ? 21:52:53 nope looks like it worked 21:53:00 goodie 22:06:15 umean, u dont have 2 preformat a disk 2 a higher capacity b4 dding? 22:06:17 id oubt it 22:06:21 i doubt it 22:06:30 tho, not sour of it 22:06:34 sure 22:08:36 no I mean I am not sure if I have to or not 22:09:25 my floppy drive is a really good one though and it will read just about anything you throw at it 22:14:45 www.hcsw.org/frugal/ 22:14:50 ^ 0.9.5 is out. 22:15:39 does that run under linux or is it bootable? 22:16:13 air : That's my forth system. It will run under most unixs, and comes with a nifty pong game. :) 22:16:24 It will even run under windows if you've got cygwin. 22:19:29 cyberlok : Oh, fuck. I forgot to change that. You're probably on linux, eh? 22:19:48 Oh. 22:19:51 It should still work. 22:27:03 hey, why is it named frugal?? 22:27:19 onetom : I like that name. :) 22:28:03 does that mean anything? 22:28:24 Yeah, it means sparse, and restrained. 22:29:37 "Economical in the use or appropriation of resources; not wasteful or lavish" - dictionary.com 22:30:41 suitable name 4 a 4th system :) 22:30:48 I thought so. :) 23:19:30 Night, all. 23:46:52 --- join: LuckyPhil (~phowlett@CPE-203-45-248-201.qld.bigpond.net.au) joined #forth 23:49:43 hi phil 23:49:46 u a forther ? 23:51:37 hello 23:51:43 --- join: thin (~thin@h24-66-221-120.cg.shawcable.net) joined #forth 23:51:50 i play with it a little, interesting language. :) 23:51:54 :) 23:51:58 * I440r hides from thin 23:52:13 its the only language other than asm 23:52:15 nothing else counts 23:52:51 I only reall ttinker with the language, haven't written anything exciting with it yet. 23:54:03 thats ok :) 23:54:07 me either heh 23:54:29 Im gonna have Fractal's pong game in serverdisk 23:54:34 next release 23:55:53 robert wrote a pong game for isforth heh 23:56:47 if tomsrtbt boots but mine does not I dont know what I could have done wrong that it doesnt boot mine 23:57:00 it would be before he made his raw file 23:57:40 mother f***er 23:57:45 his does boot 23:57:51 why not mine 23:59:04 Bah. Can't sleep. What's up, folks? 23:59:27 I440r : I've been meaning to talk to you. 23:59:43 You say you're gonna put socket functions into isforth? 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/02.09.21