00:00:00 --- log: started forth/02.09.18 00:03:31 --- quit: proteus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 00:04:06 --- join: proteus (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 01:04:03 --- quit: proteus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:04:23 --- join: proteus (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 01:27:06 Hello all :) 01:33:44 Sup Robert? 01:33:58 Tried porting your pong.f to my forth. It's coming along okay. 01:44:43 Oh, nice. 01:45:16 I never though anyone would be crazy enough to port my pong :-) 01:45:36 I mean... you can write your own, better, pong in a few minutes. 01:45:41 I'm a lousy forther :) 01:46:13 Do you use anything like IsForth's !> ? 02:04:32 Robert : No, I don't. :) 02:04:39 Which makes it somewhat difficult. 02:04:46 Not to mention character literals. 02:04:51 --- join: yeahright (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 02:05:06 Which, IMO, is unforthish: It adds needless complexity to the interpreter. 02:05:41 Robert : I think I will write a pong. Sounds like fun. 02:06:31 --- quit: proteus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:34:51 Hehe :) 02:34:57 Write a snake game, too ;) 02:35:13 By the way, charachter literals are unforthish, but quite convenient ;) 02:35:45 Just see it as a special kind of numbers :) 02:35:51 base-256 :P 02:39:09 Heh. 03:04:54 --- quit: yeahright (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03:05:10 --- join: yeahright (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 03:11:44 --- join: Serg_penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 03:13:33 --- join: LuckyPhil (~phowlett@CPE-203-45-248-201.qld.bigpond.net.au) joined #forth 03:38:37 --- quit: Serg_penguin () 03:39:45 --- part: LuckyPhil left #forth 03:53:55 --- quit: Soap` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:04:59 --- join: proteus (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 04:05:17 --- quit: yeahright (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:53:26 --- join: sif (~sifforth@ip68-14-11-174.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 04:53:26 Type sif: (or /msg sif to play in private) 05:04:34 --- quit: proteus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:04:43 --- join: proteus (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 05:48:01 --- join: TreyB (~trey@cpe-66-87-192-27.tx.sprintbbd.net) joined #forth 05:49:35 --- join: ASau (ASau@158.250.48.197) joined #forth 06:04:09 --- quit: proteus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:04:11 --- join: proteus (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 06:52:48 --- join: mark4 (~mark4@1Cust209.tnt2.bloomington.in.da.uu.net) joined #forth 06:53:58 brb 06:54:00 --- quit: mark4 (Client Quit) 07:04:41 --- quit: proteus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07:04:55 --- join: proteus (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 07:17:17 --- join: wayne (~wayne@adlax11-121.dialup.optusnet.com.au) joined #forth 07:19:25 --- join: Chef_ (~sam@beeblebrox.enst.fr) joined #forth 07:21:49 --- join: I440r (~mark4@1Cust209.tnt2.bloomington.in.da.uu.net) joined #forth 07:31:23 * Chef_ is away: Working hard 07:32:51 --- join: berndp (~berndp@194.139.17.47) joined #forth 07:33:09 --- quit: berndp (Client Quit) 07:33:09 Half of c.l.f is here now :) 07:35:46 lol 07:35:53 c.l.f doesnt like me :) 07:35:56 im a heretic :) 07:36:01 totally anti ans 07:36:09 i hold with chuck moors statement that,.... 07:36:26 the ans forth standard does not describe the forth language but a language with the same name 07:36:35 Eheheh :) 07:36:55 Forth can be used in two areas: one man project and many men projects 07:37:01 god i love that quote heh 07:37:10 ANS Forth is good for the latter, DYI Forthes for the former 07:37:50 i think "many man projects" are usually BAD 07:38:09 they tend to take longer, bet bloated, have alot of "duplication of effort" 07:38:34 i think 2 or 3 men working together on the same section of code at the same desk or splitting off in a coordinated fassion is best 07:39:05 but if two people work in the same code they can "chew the cud" so to speak 07:39:12 brainstorm the problem 07:39:32 Mmm... Not everything can be done with a lonely man in a short time frame 07:39:51 well. do you want it done "right now" or "right" 07:39:55 or asm my father says... 07:40:16 if you cant find the time to do it right first go round, where the hell are you going to find the time to do it over 07:40:24 isforth has taken 2 years so far :) 07:40:32 and ive no assembler or metacompiler yet heh 07:41:04 of corse, theres "get it done right" and 07:41:08 "drag your ass" heh 07:41:23 i was dragging my ass for about a year on isforth 07:41:31 then a year of intense development 07:41:37 now im dragging my ass again :) 07:42:20 so where are you located ? 07:42:30 Paris, France 07:42:53 aha. my x gf lives in saumur :) 07:43:10 Small town, this is not Paris :) 07:43:17 heh 07:43:58 so you dont have r> or >r in picforth ? 07:44:09 i couldnt do without them heh 07:44:09 No, the return stack (hardware stack) is hidden 07:44:18 sub threading ? 07:44:22 This is a circular stack (the 9th write overwrites the first one) 07:44:46 Native code with optimization (many operations can be inlined) 07:44:48 lol - that would tend to negate any recursive methods :) 07:45:00 Yup. First optimization was tail-recursion :) 07:45:05 isforth is not optimizing 07:45:13 This is not even an optimization, this is mandatory if you want to live with this processor 07:45:33 i tend to dislike them but i can definatly see they would be required on a pic :) 07:46:09 im generally opposed to compilers compiling ANYTHING other than exactly what i fed them 07:46:32 I can use up to 2048 words of code, 65 bytes of RAM and 512 bytes of EEPROM. More than enough :) 07:46:44 hell yes 07:47:18 could do a very nice control proggie with that :) 07:47:27 That's what I do :) 07:47:37 me 2 07:47:50 cept ive not had a contract in over a year now 07:50:03 9/11 took a huge bite out of the "Real time embedded" area 07:50:16 Really? This was not sensible in France 07:50:25 99% of the jobs i find on the net are for "real time embedded object obfuscated c++" 07:51:04 OOP and embedded are mutually exsclusive IMHO 07:51:14 c++ is mutually exclusive with everything 07:51:38 I don't think so: object orientedness in Ada resolves most of the time into static calls at compile time. It doesn't have to generate bad code. 07:51:58 I've used embedded OO Ada in the past (and will probably still do so), it can generate very efficient code. 07:52:29 well ive never seen oop methods HELP any projects ive seen it used in 07:52:32 ive seen it KILL many 07:53:02 --- quit: proteus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07:54:23 only OOP i ever saw that i considerd well done was the amiga OS 08:11:02 --- join: Klaw` (~chuck@ip68-96-75-80.oc.oc.cox.net) joined #forth 08:11:41 --- quit: Klaw (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 08:16:48 ok its official 08:16:50 im bored :P 08:18:21 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 08:32:04 I440r: Heh. 08:32:51 --- quit: wayne (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:33:03 good morning all 08:33:17 Good evening, thin. 08:33:23 * Robert just returned from school. 08:33:24 Good evening, thin! 08:33:26 sup treyb, joejoe, chef_, shain 08:38:03 robert: it's not evening until 6 pm 08:38:18 robert: i'm guessing school finishes around 3-4 for you ?? 08:38:26 Naj. 08:38:39 It was 5:30 pm when I said that. 08:38:43 heh 08:38:53 School ends 16.45 today. 08:39:42 thin: It's evening since 4 pm. 08:40:00 Esp. if you've stood up at 6 am. 08:40:20 robert: what time does school start ? 08:40:24 Well, 16.00 is afternoon. 08:40:37 Evening starts around 17.00-18.00 08:40:45 thin: Today it started 8.30 08:41:07 it doesn't start and finish the same time every day from monday to friday ? 08:41:16 Robert: Than your evening has started at 4 pm. 08:41:48 It has the right. 08:41:50 :) 08:42:04 or his afternoon started at 4pm 08:42:22 The afternoon starts after noon ;) 08:43:06 usually at 12:00 :) 08:43:37 or at 11 am :) 08:44:24 Heh. 08:44:37 If your clock is fucked up, maybe :P 08:44:40 "Morning starts with sunset..." 08:44:58 what a boring conversation 08:45:02 :P 08:45:38 Have anyone used Forth for batching in foreugn OS? 08:46:03 E.g. DOS or $$ Win 09:03:33 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:04:27 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 09:11:21 Hmm... 09:11:30 Noone? 09:12:46 No. 09:13:13 Have you? 09:13:28 No :) 09:14:36 not me 09:14:37 sorry 09:14:44 ehh wassnt paying attention again :) 09:15:19 Well. Maybe, any suggestions? 09:15:43 About how to use Forth to control external utils... 09:17:13 well you could just have forth run external programs or scripts 09:20:48 I meant, I want script in Forth 09:21:03 with rather pretty syntax. 09:21:06 isforth can do that 09:21:15 run a forth source as a script file 09:21:18 That I could understand that. 09:21:31 Isforth isn't for DOS. 09:21:38 AIR? 09:21:41 --- join: XeF4 (rageously@12-245-111-146.client.attbi.com) joined #forth 09:22:40 maybe u could do it in fpc 09:23:32 Aha... 09:23:37 Let me see... 09:34:38 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@wsip68-15-54-54.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 09:36:34 Well, isforth built damn near instantaneously. 09:39:57 * TreyB goes back to work. 09:40:15 ... 09:40:16 forth words 09:40:29 1523 Words displayed 09:40:31 ok 09:40:36 What a hell! 10:04:04 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:04:13 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 10:05:38 : proteusguy quit join recurse ; 10:07:09 lol 10:07:14 sif: : proteusguy quit join recurse ; proteusguy 10:07:16 ASau: Word not found: quit 10:07:17 recursion is evil! 10:07:30 : proteusguy begin quit join again ; 10:07:30 sif :) 10:07:33 Chef_: ;) 10:07:33 hehe 10:07:58 I440r: tail recursion is not (every decent compiler will optimize this as "begin quit join again") 10:09:01 :) 10:09:05 As you do not like your compiler to optimize anything, you can add word ";tail" which transforms the last call into a jump 10:09:13 So the programmer asks for it explicitely 10:09:28 But you have to do that for "exit" too 10:10:12 Does anyone know what stuff is easy to cut from F-PC? 10:10:42 Bye guys, beer time (happy hour!) 10:10:48 lol 10:10:55 :) 10:11:00 --- quit: Chef_ ("Jump to: Finnegan's wake") 10:16:35 What a hell! 10:17:02 Too big to configure at first look... 10:18:36 Wah! Time to end... 10:18:43 Bye, all! 10:18:47 --- quit: ASau () 10:19:04 crack 10:19:19 I440r: have you considered brewing IsFroth(tm) beer to promote IsForth? 10:23:56 :) 10:24:05 i dont drink beer :) 10:24:27 yukk (puuh puuh) 10:27:38 I440r: how about a fine wine? ;) 10:34:58 --- quit: XeF4 ("pois") 10:46:24 jd :) 11:01:07 --- join: XeF4 (multicuspi@12-245-111-146.client.attbi.com) joined #forth 11:03:51 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:04:41 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 11:49:34 back 11:50:44 Hi :) 12:04:34 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:05:01 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 12:13:32 --- join: Kitanin (~clark@SCF61185.ab.hsia.telus.net) joined #forth 12:18:20 Hey. 12:18:50 Hey. 12:24:59 * Kitanin tries to find a comp.lang.forth archive... 12:26:32 * Kitanin smacks self in head for looking for a c.l.f archive on google, instead of just... using google's c.l.f archive. 12:26:44 :D 12:26:51 * Robert helps Kitanin with the smacking. 12:28:00 Okay, found the example of template metaprogramming in forth. Wrote down the code, but not the usage, I did. 12:34:48 Kitanin: url? 12:37:24 I hates to do this to ya, but: 12:37:26 http://groups.google.ca/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&th=2c8181ee7a55fab5&seekm=H029zI.o1C.1.spenarn%40spenarnc.xs4all.nl#link1 12:37:48 * Kitanin has _no_ idea which bits of that actually matter. 12:47:57 I also have no real use for really fast bubblesorts, but it's a great piece of code to show to people. :-) 12:48:39 "really fast bubblesort" 12:48:55 Well, yeah, as opposed to a really slow bubblesort. :-) 12:51:39 * Kitanin wanders off to get some food... 12:54:41 Basically it shows that C++ programmers have to jump through hoops to get the quivalent functionality of [ and ] in Forth. 12:58:55 --- quit: XeF4 ("pois") 12:58:59 Half of the magic with Forth :) 12:59:17 * Robert thinks create does> and the pure simplicity does the rest :P 13:04:25 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:05:35 heeh how can c++ coders even comem close to something like forths [ and ] :) 13:05:42 #define ??? lol 13:06:49 If you think of the C preprocessor and C++ templates as a butt-ugly macro programming language, you can do some "interesting" things. 13:07:21 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 13:07:25 heh 13:08:02 forth makes c look moronic on ALL levels imho, every day i love forth more and more. every day i hate c more and more 13:08:58 TreyB: the template stuff isn't just ugly. It doesn't work like a macro. 13:09:57 I made a template class that gave me a syntax error if I put zero in as one of the template arguments (but it worked fine if I did the macro replacement by hand and skipped the template crap) 13:10:25 13:10:37 I440r: That's because you're getting older, and more and more fanatic :P 13:11:03 :) 13:11:35 I'm coding in C, asm and Forth without hating either of them. 13:11:49 (I should try something new some day) 13:11:55 Some people say Lisp is good. 13:12:23 Robert: I'd say try a functional language 13:12:26 robert thats because your young, dumb and full of..... 13:12:51 and dont know yet how horrible the c language is nor how beautyful the forth language is:) 13:12:52 * Herkamire takes I440r with a grain of salt 13:12:52 Herkamire: Such as..? 13:12:55 I440r: Hah :D 13:13:08 Herkamire: ;) 13:13:28 I440r: C isn't as beatiful as Forth, no. But it still isn't useless. 13:13:57 Herkamire: isnt lisp functional? 13:14:05 That's what I'm wondering... 13:14:09 I thought it was. 13:14:29 Robert: have u tried prolog yet? 13:14:38 [20:11] I'm coding in C, asm and Forth without hating either of them. 13:14:39 its also pretty refreshing 13:14:40 Robert: I don't know which functional languages are good. I've just started investigating erlang. and tathi was checking out haskel. 13:14:50 Well, obviously, you hate one of them enough to not count it. :-) 13:15:16 lisp? 13:15:33 I do disslike lisp if that's what you're getting at :) 13:15:58 Herk: Sorry, that was directed at Robert's ``C, asm, and Forth without hating either of them'' comment. :-) 13:15:59 bbl, gotta go run an errand 13:16:01 ./me idle 13:16:03 I want a language that's possible to have Readable code (which I have yet to see in lisp) 13:16:17 Erlang is a very... fun... language to work in. :-) 13:16:41 Kitanin: cool :). I'm planning on playing with it :) 13:17:58 onetom: No, is prolog OK? 13:18:28 I know more languages that those, but those are the ones I'm _using_. 13:18:35 Pascal and BASIC are less useful :P 13:18:39 Robert: prolog is a very strange beast. 13:19:23 Robert: prolog will change ur mind about the way u think of programming 13:19:33 Herkamire: People say Forth can be pretty unreadable, and I tend to agree to that. 13:19:43 onetom: Will it make me religious? 13:20:08 Robert: and pascal is absolutely not less useful than C! sõt! 13:20:19 Robert: :) no, it wont 13:20:28 Heh. 13:20:39 Well, there is much more code for C. 13:20:48 * Robert pets glibc. 13:20:51 Robert: i did a lot of programming in pascal and life is much easier w it than w C 13:20:54 Also, I like the loose types. 13:20:59 Hehe. 13:21:11 Yes, but I feel handicapped with it:) 13:21:23 there is absolutely no problem w strict types 13:21:40 if u like loose 1s, its better not having any 13:21:48 Robert: how come? 13:22:07 Robert: what things couldnt u acomplish in pascal? 13:24:05 I just think pointer magic is easier in C. Pascal doesn't have 4 ways to do x->y[0] :-) 13:24:42 I've coded some in Pascal, and it's certainly OK for high-level programming. 13:24:44 Robert: any language Can be very unreadable. my beef is that I think lisp is Always unreadable. 13:24:56 I'm mostly doing quite lowlevel coding. 13:25:06 Herkamire: Heh :) And Forth isn't? :) 13:25:18 Robert: so I've heard ;) 13:25:22 Self-documenting code is humbug if you ask me. 13:25:38 Comments is the weapon against bad syntax. 13:25:54 I've written code in forth that I could read. 13:26:04 I haven't seen much of other peoples' code in forth 13:26:24 mostly just tathi's code, and it's been pretty easy to grok. 13:26:38 Hrm. 13:26:48 I can't factor :P 13:26:57 factoring is key :) 13:27:15 My words are 25 lines of stack magic. 13:29:19 well, that explains why you can't read them :-P 13:32:33 Yes, I guess so >:) 13:32:46 Nowadays I comment Forth and asm code, but not C. 13:32:48 (Usually) 13:33:51 How do you fit 25 lines of stack magic into a 16x64 block? 13:34:02 Kitanin: factor :) 13:34:27 Yeah, but then it's not a word. It's several words. :-) 13:34:39 Hrm. 13:35:04 Kitanin: good :) 13:35:25 Kitanin: maybe you'll end up with more than one useful word 13:37:17 Tsk. Robert's the one that said he was writing 25-line words, not me. 13:38:16 ok, then maybe he will have more than 1 usefull word ;) 13:38:23 later guys. I'm going home :) 13:38:40 --- quit: Herkamire ("I wonder what this button does...") 13:46:38 Hoom... 14:03:57 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:04:13 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 14:30:19 --- join: tathi (~josh@ip68-9-58-192.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 14:38:25 --- join: tcn (tcn@tc3-login36.megatrondata.com) joined #forth 14:51:28 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@ip68-14-11-174.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 14:52:53 back 14:57:22 Robert: http://www.mindprod.com/unmain.html 14:57:34 Herkamire: http://www.mindprod.com/unmain.html 14:57:45 tips 2 obfuscate code 14:58:05 there r lotsa smart & "rotfl" ideas on the page 14:58:07 have fun 14:58:18 Heh. 14:58:21 * Robert checks. 14:59:17 ive only check 1 chapter what wasnt the 1st & it was col 14:59:19 cool 15:03:35 --- quit: Herkamire ("Lost terminal") 15:03:54 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:04:36 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 15:04:48 heh.. i read that a couple years ago :) 15:08:08 i hope it was a heart warming memory 4 ya ;) 15:09:21 yeah 15:09:34 i wonder if they've added anything since then 15:10:36 --- join: thefox (fox@adsl-209-182-168-45.value.net) joined #forth 15:10:37 --- mode: ChanServ set +o thefox 15:11:49 thefox! 15:11:50 ltns 15:11:52 :) 15:12:30 :) wow, a late night surprise 15:12:54 Oh, hello. 15:12:57 thefox hows it going ? 15:13:06 Hehe, yes. It's past midnight CET. 15:13:17 did anyone else see Jos's post to c.l.f with email/news software running in win32for? 15:13:19 Since I got school tomorrow, I won't be able to stay up very long. 15:14:09 thefox: mmm, a lammer question: how do u read news? 15:14:11 i saw teh post but i didnt look at it 15:14:18 is it good ? 15:14:24 I look forward to his releasing it. chat would next on the list I guess. I am using MIRC ... 15:14:30 via what sw, what server, or what webpage? 15:14:30 with an nntp client :P 15:14:56 The header showed that the post came from his win32for program 15:15:04 cool :) 15:15:08 then its working :) 15:15:23 my next release on isforth will have my sockets code in it 15:15:26 pop3 nntp .. something I don't remember exactly, but win32for already does http 15:15:34 plus dns queries 15:15:57 the http rendering is done in forth or using some windows dll 15:16:03 ? 15:16:11 that would make sense 15:16:18 html 15:16:24 right, http plus dns queries and all that, it downloads web pages and with Jos's code does email and news. 15:16:51 but is it all done via forth code of via windows dll's ? 15:17:06 the sockets code has to be windows dll but does the hhtml renderer use one too ? 15:17:12 or forth html rendering code 15:17:16 the user interface is just a tree of the email database and the winview editor. But there are more html smart versions of winview 15:17:52 some kind of smam filtering 15:17:57 spam filtering 15:18:17 cool 15:18:24 yes 15:18:27 is thefox working on anything ? 15:18:31 paid work i mean 15:19:00 not at the moment 15:19:33 i had a small contract to reverse engineer some 8051 stuff from home, im hoping the same company gets their contract from the post office cuz if they do ill be going to va to work with them 15:22:54 whats thefox working on ? 15:24:50 I need to document and ship some aha os application demonstration code 15:25:05 :) 15:25:10 potential customers ? 15:25:21 I need to fix the eforth-cd that I got from Ting and reship a couple of copies that were incomplete 15:26:00 Someone who bought a couple f21 but wants working boards and some software to demo locally. 15:26:06 oh yea did you ask ting if he would be willing to help out with isforth ? 15:26:27 I expect to get a neat f21 board from Germany soon too. 15:26:59 I haven't talked to Ting recently. I did see Chuck about a week ago. 15:27:00 how much is an f21 chip nowdays? 15:27:01 cool :) 15:27:09 what does it cost, imean 15:27:10 hows he holding up ? 15:28:52 an f21 chip? do you mean one of the prototypes made in 98 or an updated version, with a couple of fixes on .8u in the third world, or in more state of the art somewhere else, and what quantity? 15:29:31 :)) okay.. 15:29:57 probably i misunderstood something 15:30:21 Chuck is doing ok. He has moved from his home in Woodside for the last 19 years and is now in the Sierra 15:30:50 moving is never easy, i hope to never MOVE again 15:32:28 I know that wafers in .8u in India today cost what prototype chips cost me here a few years back. If someone had a little funding we could sell them for about $5, with a little more about $.10 15:33:58 I asked why the info on c18 an 25x was no longer at Chuck's website. Good news/bad news, there is an interest with money, the interest wants it to be proprietary so the public info went away. 15:34:26 Moving certainly gives one a sense of change. 15:34:53 no, thats VERY good news, even if it becomes totally proprietary it means chuck is making an income! 15:35:01 dont sell for less than 3 mill :) 15:35:16 * Robert wishes a Forth chip with a test board for his birthday. 15:35:19 I wouldn't jump to that conclusion. 15:35:30 When I get time, I should try the simulators. 15:36:29 thefox: mmm, that sounds really good! 15:37:07 I have given away more chip than I have sold. I guess that is a good thing. People who showed enough interest to write cool apps for simulators could be expected to either write more software for simulators, or real chips. 15:38:22 A .8u F21 would not be state of the art compared to Chuck's current c18 design in .18u or smaller, but they could be made dirt cheap in the third world as an alternative to things like 8051. 15:38:51 Basically an 8051 and F21 are equivalent in terms of size, cost, etc. 15:39:04 except performance... yeah.. 15:39:27 Except the 4-6 orders of magnitude performance dif on Forth of course. :-) 15:39:35 and features of course 15:40:16 f21 is the chip v lotsa peripherals, isnt it? 15:40:17 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@ip68-14-11-174.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 15:40:25 yes, that too, 8051 are antique cpu and antique i/o except for some updated models with more sophisticated i/o. 15:41:15 where is woodside? 15:41:19 dont u plan 2 port those chip simulators 2 *nix? 15:41:22 F21 has virtually infinite peripherals, one should read the work book that Chuck included with Novix Forthkits to get an idea. I may publish that ancient document on the web sometime 15:41:57 a also plan 2 start experimenting w them, but i definetly want to avoid windows 15:42:38 shall i humbly ask u lets define that sometimes as nowdays? ;) 15:43:00 s/sometimes/"sometime"/ 15:43:22 woodside is in the pennisula but Chuck lived at the very top of King's Mountain on the far side of the ridge, surounded by a few hundred acres of redwoods, with view of the Pacific, 120 year old home. But his new place is nice too. 15:44:43 tell him we said hi :) 15:45:30 most of the software at ut uses fpc and wants ems. windows 95 did it great. After that... dos windows fail to provide the ems needed for the best simulars and emulators. But DOS 3-5 W/ EMS support is great. 15:46:03 I don't know what his internet connection will be like, probably much like before, slow. 15:46:07 dont need ems in linux :) 15:47:07 I should go up and visit him soon. It will be 200mi for me instead of the 50 it has been. 15:48:26 its just 2^2 times longer ;) 15:49:04 I440r: coz u r a mazochist. everybody knows this ;p 15:49:08 One of the things I liked most about FPC (more than a dozen years ago) was that it automatically supported EMS if the system supported it and used it for neat stuff. I had EMM and EMS long long ago and was able to bypass other people's problems with fpc's 64kb segments that way 15:49:42 My time may be difficult to predict. 15:49:47 yes, the segment threading is cool 15:51:21 I may not admit to breaking any speed limits on a visit to Chuck's, but I routinely try to break the (well known) laws of time and space. 15:51:41 :) 15:51:44 :D 15:51:50 what sort of car u got ? 15:52:13 car?! hey his not a lisp programmer! ;) 15:52:28 ...hey, he's... 15:52:50 I heard a great 'if programming languages were cars' joke a few years ago... 15:54:01 Perfect for a chat room. It listed a number of languages with descriptions of the cars (trucks-trains etc.) that wouldd match each one. 15:55:18 The ones I remember most were Forth and C, but there were a few others that I do remember. 15:56:17 C was a dune buggy covered with a great deal of dirt. (nice utilitarian, function and fun image) 15:56:19 --- quit: Klaw` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 15:57:10 Forth was an English sports car, with the wheel on the wrong side, and on which one was as likely to find the owner under it tinkering with it as driving it at any given time. 15:57:25 Well anyway, that's the Forth punchline. 15:57:52 and what was LISP? 15:58:22 There were many perjoratives, scripting languages were things like trams, where you had little or no control. 15:58:43 What would LISP be? I forget, but we can make one up. 15:58:50 BASIC would be a school bus.. slow, clunky & uncomfortable :) 15:59:01 --- join: Klaw (~chuck@ip68-96-75-80.oc.oc.cox.net) joined #forth 15:59:09 Ada = M1 tank :) 15:59:26 LISP is an automated car that plans its routes in advance for you. 15:59:34 you got the idea 16:00:09 But the LISP car is completely incompatible with the big selling brands of course. 16:01:21 Anyway, I have something very analoguos to me to a Forth car, and one which will literally become a Forth car before too long. Lotus Elan S3 Drophead Coupe with some special aftermarket parts from Cosworth. 16:01:55 eep! 16:02:02 u cant break many speed limits with that :) 16:02:05 hehe 16:03:05 For a few years, in their advertizing, they guaranteed that you (the car) could exceed 2x the posted limit on any corner (where there was a limit). 16:03:22 :) 16:03:33 at 3x 4x 5x 6x people turn funny colors 16:04:04 I have been on Sears Point and Laguna Seca Raceways a few times, but never in this car. 16:04:16 No speed limits there. 16:04:25 at all ? 16:04:36 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 16:04:54 Not when the track is rented by a club. 16:04:56 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 16:05:11 Driving on racetracks is a lot of fun. 16:05:35 hehe 16:06:52 --- quit: Kitanin ("Praeterea censeo Carthaginem esse delendam.") 16:07:04 I might go up to Thunderhill raceway later this year but I have no hard plans at the present time. Also it would be fun to enter something like the Silver State Ralley where they let people drive in different catagories across the state at whatever speed they want. To win you have to be accurate at whatever speed you choose. 16:08:08 constant speed is difficult to maintain ONLY because of the OTHER morons on the road 16:08:15 if im on an empty road i maintain 16:08:15 But I look forward to drives to and from Chuck's new place. 16:08:49 brb, rebooting server 16:09:06 "other morons" ? 16:09:50 he's calling us morons! 16:10:21 When I was young I enjoyed sports car rallys. It would be fun to do one of those unlimited ones in these days of GPS etc. 16:10:38 In fact I am about to order a GPS stamp. 16:11:11 --- join: I440r_ (~mark4@1Cust240.tnt1.bloomington.in.da.uu.net) joined #forth 16:11:41 lol 16:11:43 ghost! 16:11:58 I plan to hook it to F21 for the module for several projects. 16:15:59 oh shit, it's getting dark.. gotta run :) 16:16:06 need tomatos :) 16:16:10 OTHER morons implies that I440r considers self to be include. But I think George Carlin was right, when driving there are only two classes of drivers, those who driver slower than you and those who drive faster than you. 16:16:27 right on 16:16:35 Anyone who drives slower than you is an idiot and anyone who drives faster than you is a maniac. 16:17:23 --- quit: tcn () 16:18:14 sort of like programming. ;-) 16:19:50 On that line, I think I'll take my leave. Best wishes, to all. 16:21:24 --- quit: thefox () 16:21:41 lol 16:24:12 --- quit: I440r (No route to host) 16:30:48 --- quit: proteusguy (Remote closed the connection) 16:54:34 bah! 16:54:40 i'm never around when thefox is here 16:54:41 heh 17:18:17 --- quit: I440r_ (No route to host) 17:43:30 thin: nevermind. he comes relatively often 17:43:43 yeah, once a month 17:43:57 mostly when something on c.l.f has got him excited 17:43:59 :P 17:44:20 solution: track clf 17:44:22 i'm oversimplifying prolly 17:45:23 what he was talkin about anyway? 17:45:33 i didnt understood 17:47:49 about what? 17:49:47 --- join: I440r (~mark4@1Cust203.tnt1.bloomington.in.da.uu.net) joined #forth 18:06:39 09-19 00:28:16 <@thefox> did anyone else see Jos's post to c.l.f with email/news software running in win32for? 18:15:56 --- join: Speuler (~l@pD9502518.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 18:17:24 onetom: what didn't you understand about that? 18:17:49 c.l.f is comp.lang.forth a usenet newsgroup.. 18:17:52 surely you know that :P 18:32:46 what article is he referring to? 18:33:04 im just browsing the archive via google 18:33:18 but cant find the referenced article 18:33:33 tho im finding other very exciting 1s :) 18:34:07 oh, how dumb was i not reading clf earlier! 18:34:13 its pretty cool 18:57:46 jeff fights w the masses well on clf :) 18:58:03 a quote from 1 of his opponents: 18:58:20 > So I will invite anyone to provide a quality C 18:58:20 > equivalent for the following simple example in Forth: 18:58:20 > 18:58:20 > USER WIN As far as I can tell, USER is not part of ANS Forth. So it would be helpful 18:58:23 if you described what USER and WIN do. 18:58:53 oops 18:58:59 > USER WIN 18:59:07 18:59:07 As far as I can tell, USER is not part of ANS Forth. So it would be helpful 18:59:09 ... 19:51:57 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 20:48:51 --- quit: Speuler (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21:48:13 --- quit: Herkamire ("I wonder what this button does...") 22:23:55 --- quit: sif (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:06:12 thin: You're never around when fox is here. Hah! 23:24:28 --- join: Serg_penguin (~Z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 23:24:41 hi 23:25:14 --- quit: Serg_penguin (Client Quit) 23:52:06 : strout ( a1 --- ) count 0 do count emit loop drop ; 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/02.09.18