00:00:00 --- log: started forth/02.09.07 00:05:05 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 00:05:48 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 00:30:22 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 00:30:27 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 00:57:22 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 01:06:14 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 01:52:14 --- join: XeF4 (xef4@lowfidelity.org) joined #forth 01:56:57 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 02:02:26 has anyone a favourite freeware terminal emulator for <=640KB 386? 02:08:13 DOS? Bananacom is free and would probably run, but it's not exactly software that would fit in to anyone's 'favourite' list. 02:08:29 For windows, you can't beat puTTY. 02:08:36 Single ~90k .EXE 02:08:59 SSH, Telnet, RSH, you name it. It'll do vt100, vt220, anything. 02:09:17 No conf files, no installation. All stored in registry. 02:43:32 Or did you mean a 386 box with 640k mem? 02:48:27 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 02:58:23 Fractal: I mean the 386 laptop with 640k mem I picked up for use as a serial terminal 03:22:12 Heh. Ok, nevermind me then. 03:22:30 Heard of Xtalk (crosstalk)? 03:22:38 I just remember using that back in the day. 03:23:09 * Soap` picked up a vt100 terminal for use as a vt100 terminal :D 04:00:34 Fractal: no config files? its a drawback, not a feature what it can b proud of... 04:04:07 This being said in a forth channel?!?! 04:04:20 Seriously, you can configure it. Just by the registry. 04:04:34 (And of course in the application itself) 04:04:42 but the registry editor is terribly inconvenient 04:04:54 and not portable 04:04:55 Yeah, it sucks. 04:05:17 and this later attribute is the most annoying. :( 04:05:21 Sure it is. You can easily copy registry keys. There's even a shipped dos utility to do it. 04:06:02 i think its far more harder than copying a single config file.. 04:06:16 --- join: proteus (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 04:06:24 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:06:31 Well, the windows file system is inconsistent and disorganized. I never know where the config files to applications are. 04:07:01 ? and the registry is not... joking? 04:07:45 It's not as bad. At least it's layout doesn't change with every release of windows. 04:08:36 That's one thing I don't like about unix. All conf files are stored in ~/.* files. I'd much rather a central repository. 04:08:59 Or /etc/* 04:09:09 Of course. 04:09:45 Hey onetom, wanna take a look at my forth? 04:10:49 It's nothing special. Just another forth. But I've learnt a lot from doing it. 04:11:15 Ok, whatever. 04:11:45 Fractal: sure 04:11:58 Fractal: hermantom@freemail.hu 04:12:22 Cool. I'll just give you a web address. One sec. 04:12:40 Wait, are you on x86 unix? 04:14:24 http://www.hcsw.org/newforth.tgz 04:14:29 ^ work in progress... 04:16:42 Actually, I'm sure that'll build on windows too. 04:17:40 Hm. FORGET is broken. Don't use it. 04:21:52 k 04:22:23 Try it? 04:29:19 just finished reading it over 04:29:48 Comments? 04:31:17 hm hm ... not much. its simple useful... i like it, i think... 04:31:52 Thanks. :) 04:32:13 One thing, though: There's no DOES>. Words are responsible for compiling their own runtime behaviour. 04:32:15 s/simple/simple,/ 04:32:37 yeah, i saw that 04:32:45 Which makes some of the words in init.fs kind of ugly, but shouldn't be that bad for normal programming. 04:33:01 Cool. 04:35:30 : #, VM_NUMBER , ; 04:35:57 : branch VM_BRANCH , , ; 04:36:04 : ?branch VM_IFBRANCH , , ; 04:36:45 Ok. I'll put those in. 04:37:12 there r also an 0branch what i dont know about what does it do 04:37:24 \ Thanks to onetom on #forth for these next 3 04:38:35 --- join: ASau (ASau@158.250.48.197) joined #forth 04:39:41 :) 04:39:48 Good afternoon! 04:40:03 anyway, it compiles and works flawlessly for me, too 04:40:09 hello, ASau 04:41:01 Cool. Thanks for the testing. 04:42:14 update the tgz! 04:43:25 btw, tgz is reserved 4 slackware & files distributed via fat16 filesystems 04:43:45 the standard is .tar.gz ithink. @ least i like it more 04:44:12 Ok. I usually use .tgz because windows doesn't mangle it into file.gz. 04:45:13 windows?... 04:45:32 i tried it under sid, and u? 04:46:08 He means enshortening of file names, I think. 04:46:50 I hate "PROGRA~1"-s too. 04:47:02 Ok. New tar.gz is up: http://www.hcsw.org/newforth.tar.gz 04:47:15 onetom : woody. 04:47:27 It's just sometimes I download stuff on a windows box, and... 04:47:31 What ASau said. 04:47:34 I don't like file names in not 8.3 format 04:48:06 I have no problem with long filenames. I just hate microsoft for sticking to their archaic formats. 04:48:25 I have to live in M$ Win. :( 04:48:35 Fractal: thats ok than.. 04:48:55 then 04:49:11 Btw. Andy Valencia uses .tz for gzipped tars. 04:49:26 see www.forthos.org and www.vsta.org 04:50:01 It is very interesting solution. 04:50:12 ;)) excentricity.. 04:50:30 it is , in deed 04:50:58 ASau : Well, traditionally, .z files in unix apply to "compress"ed files, not gziped files. 04:51:14 (Although in most modern systems, compress is just a wrapper for gzip) 04:51:14 comprezzed :) 04:51:15 I know about .Z-s 04:51:31 compreZZed :)) 04:51:32 Heh. 04:52:47 An interesting thing... 04:53:06 Ya. 04:53:07 In UNIX world there're 3 compressing/archiving programs. 04:53:18 compress, gzip, bzip2 04:53:25 Ah! zoo 04:53:37 In DOS world there're much more 04:54:19 even counting no UNIXish... 04:54:24 zip, ace, jar, arj, rar, etc... :( 04:54:25 Fractal: ööööö, i thought u gonna replace the seqs w #, branch ?branch 04:54:36 onetom : I'm getting to that. :) 04:54:45 jar? thats just a simple zip 04:54:54 Is it? 04:55:06 No 04:55:15 jar is enhanced arj 04:55:26 Yeah, that's what I thought. 04:55:31 I don't really know though. 04:55:33 ah, okay, then :) 04:56:04 * onetom doesnt really deals w the win world 2 seriously 4 some yrs 04:56:25 Btw. If I want to compress smth I use tar+ha :) 04:56:44 It is better than tar+gzip. 04:57:08 Yeah, I rarely use windows. 04:57:21 I often compile my code for windows for other people though, so.. 04:58:31 ha? 04:58:50 * ASau prefers to deal with plain DOS. 04:59:29 Harry Hirvola's archiving program. 04:59:47 0.999 version is C open source. 05:00:04 but is it 4 dos only? 05:00:14 I think it is under Linux or BSD 05:01:30 Did you mean to search for:Harri Hirvola 05:02:07 I have a copy of src here. 05:02:14 GPL v.2 05:02:29 www.openbsd.org/2.7_packages/ m68k/ha-0.999b.tgz-long.html 05:02:42 * onetom putt-putts ASaus shoulder ;) 05:03:10 l33t. m68k. I've got about a half dozen m68k macs. 05:03:21 i heard about it years ago, but forgot it completely 05:03:33 I run linux on most, openbsd on one. 05:03:40 and is ha better than rar? 05:03:52 i guess, its much slower, isnt it? 05:04:02 even 4 decompressing, probably 05:05:16 Yes it is much slower. 05:05:35 --- quit: proteus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:05:58 --- join: proteus (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 05:06:12 Ok, I'm gonna take that URL down, so download it quick if you want it. 05:06:31 onetom : I'm too tired to change those tonight. I'll get it tomorrow. 05:06:44 Night. 05:07:40 Fractal: hey! wait 05:07:56 Fractal: gimme ur email address 05:07:58 Ok. 05:08:09 doug@hypervivid.com 05:08:17 Fractal: probably , im gonna try 2 modify & test the modifications 05:08:20 k 05:08:34 sleep well now 05:09:03 onetom : Cool. Let me know how it goes. Night. 05:11:06 rar compresses less than ha 05:11:15 tested. 05:11:27 Only in solid mode rar compressed better. 05:11:44 I think tar changes this 05:12:26 I know that our R50 FIDONet members use ha to compress books and such. 05:12:43 They don't use rar for this purposes. 05:26:29 : 8h. h. h. h. h. h. h. h. h. ; : 8c. c. c. c. c. c. c. c. c. ; 05:26:29 \ : dump-line 8h. ." - " 8h. 16 - ." " 8c. ." - " 8c. drop ; 05:27:00 the dump-line makes Fractals 4th 3 segfault.. 05:27:10 s/3/2 :) 05:48:19 ahha! it hangs on ." " 05:48:40 ." - " 05:48:43 ." - " 05:48:52 does the same 05:49:10 so there must b some problem w the word parsing. 05:49:25 it eats up all the spaces after a word 05:56:23 hmm hmm, the query and interpret words r not factored enough ithink 05:56:37 so i cant find the problem @ 1st glance. 05:56:45 sorry Fractal, revise them 05:57:18 and create also works in a non standard way 05:57:43 coz its not the same saying 05:57:49 create x 1 , 05:57:49 as 05:57:56 variable x 1 x ! 05:59:25 create x 1 , 05:59:32 is not the same as 05:59:43 variable x 1 x ! 05:59:46 of course 06:00:34 What do you mean: 06:00:48 it eats up all the spaces after a word 06:01:00 ? 06:05:19 --- quit: proteus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:05:24 --- join: proteus (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 06:14:41 ASau: i meant parsing words work bad, coz reading a new word name in skipps the trailing spaces after the word 06:15:41 so ." x" and ." x" both print only a single "x" 06:17:13 What a nonsense! 06:18:47 ? 06:19:02 was i comprehendable? 06:22:42 I mean, to skip all blanks after word parsed. 06:22:56 ah, ok :) 06:23:09 sure it is, but it must b a bug ithink 06:23:45 but cant find it coz the interpreter is a bit more complicated than needed 06:24:52 WORD calls ENCLOSE ? 06:25:31 I'd start with WORD 06:26:19 I don't know what can be unclear in it. 06:29:43 khm.. in what forth? ... 06:29:53 its implementation dependant 06:30:31 now im talking about Fractals new 4th 06:31:02 Hmm... 06:31:13 May I look at this? 06:32:21 09-07 14:00:19 < Fractal> Ok. New tar.gz is up: http://www.hcsw.org/newforth.tar.gz 06:35:16 --- quit: XeF4 ("pois") 06:47:45 onetom: line #426 of forth.c 06:48:27 while( iswhitespace(*(fi->parsep)))) (fi->parsep)++; 06:48:33 should be: 06:49:26 while (*(fi->parsep)==delim) (fi->parsep)++; 06:50:04 or like in lines 430--435 06:50:14 Y? 06:50:20 AIR? 06:50:46 (C function parse in forth.c) 06:52:26 Bug is this: 06:52:55 ." asks PARSE to read till next ". 06:53:25 PARSE eats all spaces, then starts string literal 06:53:41 when it meets ending ", it stops. 06:53:45 AIR? 06:53:59 I think, IAR. 06:55:03 (C) ASau, 2002 under BSD-style lycense. 06:55:11 Bug fix. 06:55:16 :p 06:55:23 :))) 06:57:53 Case sensitive forth in C... 06:58:00 724 lines... 06:58:11 Good enough. 06:58:21 But there is no VLIST :( 07:05:34 --- quit: proteus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 07:06:19 --- join: proteus (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 07:13:59 Fractal: I have fixed this bug. 07:14:13 Send me your e-mail addr. 07:14:25 I'll send fixed version. 07:25:05 Hmm/ 07:25:15 An interesting thing: 07:25:18 ." " 07:25:24 prints one space 07:57:03 --- quit: proteus (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 08:06:09 --- join: proteus (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 09:04:40 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 09:05:32 --- quit: proteus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:09:22 ASau: :)) so u have introduced another bug? >;p 09:15:32 Debugging is a process of deleting one bug and adding of some other ones. 09:15:41 :)) 09:16:45 Pray, it ever works. 09:26:24 I do not know how it is supposed to work in his forth. 09:26:45 So I've done it working anyway. 09:26:56 So I've done it working in any way. 09:57:32 --- join: thefox (fox@adsl-209-182-168-45.value.net) joined #forth 09:57:32 --- mode: ChanServ set +o thefox 09:57:41 onetom: I've understood. 09:57:50 ASau: really? 09:57:56 onetom: It is the hole in PARSE 09:58:08 Given a delim. 09:58:31 PARSE do not goes further this delim 09:58:38 Welcome, Jeff, thefox 09:58:50 and stops on it. 09:59:08 Good evening, Jeff! 09:59:24 In the other case, if a delim is blank, 09:59:25 Good morning here 09:59:47 thefox: what wind has blown u here? 09:59:48 it is normal 09:59:57 thefox: any news? 10:00:06 But not if a delim is e.g. "-s 10:00:42 onetom: CHAR " PARSE in ." XXXX" 10:01:13 cant really understand yet... 10:02:52 onetom: leaves parsing AFTER the 2nd " 10:03:22 but BL PARSE in XXXX_ (where _ is a blank) 10:03:37 stops at that _ 10:03:37 but this is the way it should work 10:03:51 oh, no, got it 10:04:30 I thought it should skip this delimiter. 10:04:47 it shouldnt ithink 10:04:54 too 10:05:19 --- join: proteus (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 10:05:29 . 10:05:39 Let us define ` as parsing point mark 10:05:52 PARSE should do this: 10:06:11 `." XXXX" -> ." XXXX"` 10:06:27 `XXXX_ -> XXXX_` 10:06:38 because _ is a delim. 10:06:45 AIR? 10:06:59 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 10:07:31 mmm, cant really understand the notation asd -> asd :) 10:07:53 start -> end. 10:08:03 substitution 10:08:10 aaah , okay :) 10:08:17 before ` is parsed word(s) 10:08:25 after -- not parsed 10:08:54 yea, in this case thats right 10:09:22 thats the usual and most useful behaviour 10:09:24 I think the reason is "iswhitespace()" usage. 10:09:37 ...in C code, I mean 10:11:00 in Fractal's code: 10:11:09 `XXXX_ -> XXXX`_ 10:13:55 the recommended solution in parse is: 10:15:04 dup bl = if scan-until-white else scan then 10:17:37 thefox: hey, tell us sg new, sg exciting! @least that: how are u? 10:18:34 the new semester has started 4 some of us these days, 10:19:07 so the channel is a lilbit sleepy 10:22:39 not too much is new. Chuck will be moving about 250 miles East so I may see him a bit less often. 10:23:22 auch, thats sad... why is he moving? 10:23:39 I heard yesterday that Alegra is now one year old, still a work in progress, and that it has grown from 258 to about 410 words. 10:24:03 necessity 10:24:16 and whats up w u? 10:24:22 whats alegra? 10:25:12 not too much, working on several projects. Alegra is a GUI using hardware video acceleration for P21 and F21. 10:26:10 is it avaiable publicly? 10:26:24 Open, close, repaint, resize, relayer, and move are the high level words, 400 cells of code. 10:27:56 a description was published a year ago and some code, but the updated version and all the tools have not been put online. I am hoping that Soeren will present a paper at some Forth conference or post the thing with his simulators and screen shots etc. 10:28:24 ive seen the announcement of a new, optimizing 4th compiler for microchip PICs on forth.ru 10:28:53 its a more advanced version of MARY from dr pepix (mary.pepix.net) 10:28:55 Soeren was the source of the phrase 'the infinite 1K page' after fine tuning his GUI code for a long time. 10:31:17 wow, ive just realized that the ultratech ppl pg is updated!! hahaaa! :D or aha? ;) 10:31:46 He set out out to do a non-trival task, provide a GUI with windows style windows and write it for hardware video acceleration using the video instruction set on Chuck's chips. After a couple of years it has been improved and is getting close to 1/2 K of code. 10:32:18 so i was wondering about wheather is it a good idea 2 create the ancient 4th for pic instead of machine 4th for example 10:33:16 * onetom is browsing the soeren stuff. it sounds exciting 10:33:53 I am not familar enough with PIC architecture to guess of there would be much improvement. Perhaps. I know that Chuck has thought about it. The last time I saw him he commented that he had been studying the PIC stuff and that they could do most of the things that most people think you need a PC to do. 10:36:22 After writing a non-trival application in machineForth, and writing and debugging various things on simulated and real P21 and F21, Soeren's most interesting observations are that he really thinks that something like ColorForth rather than machineForth would have made him considerably more productive and the code easier to deal with. 10:37:17 People don't like it when I say that understanding and perhaps working with machineforth variants on Chuck's chips really is a prerequisit to understanding colorforth. 10:38:07 Soeren and I have not used colorForth but have done a lot of machineforth and see it as the next obvious step in the direction that we have gone in. 10:38:46 there is a link on utc about ur article in the free sw magazine 10:39:27 is it available somewhere yet? coz i havent found any download links on the refered page 10:39:45 * onetom is now reading ur previous sentences 10:40:13 But I also admit that Chuck's PC colorforth is an entity unto itself and is real. I always just worry that people will be distracted by all the compromises made to match the Forth software to Pentium/PC hardware. 10:41:33 the FSM office moved in June and they fell behind schedule, I got my article in by early May, but the May issue has yet to be published. I was assured that it will. 10:42:09 compromises? compromises in chucks color4th? 10:42:47 I have the draft html and a pdf version of the article that I submitted at http://www.ultratechnology.com/ml0.htm and http://www.ultratechnology.com/ml0.pdfr 10:42:59 pdf not pdfr :-) 10:43:07 of coures :)û 10:43:14 course 10:43:28 there are links at the bottom of the jefffox.htm page 10:44:55 hmm... the ultratech pg is a bit like some spiders web ;) 10:45:58 but not the 1 of those w the poligonal webs, but like the 1s w dense web loomed in2 the grass 10:46:00 I saw the Scientific American Frontiers show that had Alan Alda interviewing Gerald Edelman. Edelman's model of neuronal group evolution is my next big project for F21. 10:46:33 have u used any wiki yet? 10:47:11 Indeed. I prune the web of links from time to time and remove really old stuff. But really old documents are usually only linked to older documents so it is easy to get into very old stuff and miss newer stuff. 10:48:02 remove really old stuff?!!??! yay, u shouldnt 10:48:12 I have sort of been afraid to use any wiki. 10:48:25 we also like those ancient historycal stuff too, ithink 10:48:33 why? 10:48:58 it is possible 2 use a wiki 4 your own, personal usage 10:49:06 Sometimes I add even older stuff. I want to add an version of the Forthkit workbook that Chuck included with his Novix kits. 10:49:18 its not necessary 2 b editable by several individuals 10:49:39 infact, the main benefit of using a wiki is 10:50:19 its easy maintanence due to its structured text interface 10:50:56 and the con..... look of the whole site 10:51:07 wiki scare me. I sympathize with Daniel Dennett when he says that there is nothing that he hates worse than a bad argument for something that he holds dear. When I read what most people say about Forth, especially those who say that they love it, it makes me want to cry. 10:51:17 and it also takes care of page hieracry automatically 10:51:29 so u dont have 2 deal w site maps by hand 10:51:45 It is like discussing martial arts in a newsgroup. It is enough to make you cry. 10:51:55 or laugh if you don't care 10:52:07 :)) 10:52:28 sure sure, but a personal wiki is different, isnt it? 10:52:49 its so perfect 2 jott info or code pieces down 10:53:11 I have a couple of megs of html, hundreds of graphics, some animated, and 9gigs of video files at my site... It is quite a problem. 10:53:56 wiki.forth.org.ru started by Andrey Cherezov as personal 10:53:58 Perhaps a personal wiki would be ok. I should consider it. At one time I had a chat room. 10:54:20 Now it contains thoughts of approx. 5-10 men. 10:54:48 a personal example: http://sec.dunasoft.com:9673/forth/ppmcopy 10:55:03 imean http://sec.dunasoft.com:9673/forth 10:55:26 I even had (have) some hidden pages at my site, links that are less than obvious, just for fun. But no one has ever found any of them. 10:55:29 And in parallel there is www.forth.org.ru 10:55:37 i use it as a link page accessible from anywhere at the moment 10:55:55 but it could evolve 2 god knows where later 10:56:41 I almost could not believe it when a couple of years ago I had to edit all my html files and add a line turning off 'SMART BROWSING' ugh!!!! 10:56:43 thefox: i think some web spiders has found some of them 10:57:18 Yes, well spiders, or anyone reading the sources could find them. 10:57:22 why? what is that smart browsing? 10:59:59 microsoft added 'smart tags' to their browsers a few years ago. This means that the browser can turn any word in your document into a hyperlink with Microsoft choosing what to link it to. So when I use the word OS microsoft might link it to Windows, and when I use the word microprocessor they might link it to Intel, etc. etc. It would be about the last thing I would want at my website, microsoft changing all the links on me. 11:00:46 loll 11:00:46 --- quit: proteus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:00:50 --- join: proteus (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 11:01:54 I had to add META NAME="MSSmartTagsPreventParsing" content="True" to my html files 11:03:16 also spiders usually are not smart enough to understand a 'you won a prize if you found this page message." 11:04:00 Actually I have some unlinked, but no hidden pages at my site at the present time. 11:06:08 I expect to see Chuck tomorrow. I will have a few questions for him. 11:08:39 --- quit: clog (^C) 11:08:39 --- log: stopped forth/02.09.07 11:08:49 --- log: started forth/02.09.07 11:08:49 --- join: clog (nef@bespin.org) joined #forth 11:08:49 --- topic: 'Thoughtful programming is about changing your perspective of the problem until has a trivial solution. | x86 Linux Forth coded in asm - http://isforth.clss.net | home of forth - http://www.ultratechnology.com' 11:08:49 --- topic: set by thin on [Sat Aug 31 20:52:45 2002] 11:08:49 --- names: list (clog proteus @thefox ASau Robert onetom skylan Soap` Fractal Shain ian[sc3] OrngeTide @ChanServ) 11:11:11 --- quit: clog (^C) 11:11:11 --- log: stopped forth/02.09.07 11:11:23 --- log: started forth/02.09.07 11:11:23 --- join: clog (nef@bespin.org) joined #forth 11:11:23 --- topic: 'Thoughtful programming is about changing your perspective of the problem until has a trivial solution. | x86 Linux Forth coded in asm - http://isforth.clss.net | home of forth - http://www.ultratechnology.com' 11:11:23 --- topic: set by thin on [Sat Aug 31 20:52:45 2002] 11:11:23 --- names: list (clog proteus @thefox ASau Robert onetom skylan Soap` Fractal Shain ian[sc3] OrngeTide @ChanServ) 11:17:01 oops, sorry ive been distracted by my relatives 11:17:53 No matter. 11:18:09 thefox: at ur site means ultratech.com? 11:20:56 yes 11:21:25 ultratechnology.com ultratech.com is a different company.. :-) 11:25:25 --- log: started forth/02.09.07 11:25:25 --- join: clog (~nef@bespin.org) joined #forth 11:25:25 --- topic: 'Thoughtful programming is about changing your perspective of the problem until has a trivial solution. | x86 Linux Forth coded in asm - http://isforth.clss.net | home of forth - http://www.ultratechnology.com' 11:25:25 --- topic: set by thin on [Sat Aug 31 20:52:45 2002] 11:25:25 --- names: list (clog proteus @thefox ASau Robert onetom skylan Soap` Fractal Shain ian[sc3] OrngeTide @ChanServ) 11:40:59 --- join: KOHTPA (ASau@158.250.48.197) joined #forth 11:40:59 --- quit: ASau (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:41:10 --- nick: KOHTPA -> ASau 11:41:22 I'm back. 11:50:03 bye all 11:50:12 --- quit: thefox () 12:05:51 --- quit: proteus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:06:09 --- join: proteus (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 12:56:37 Good night! 12:56:42 Bye! 12:56:44 --- part: ASau left #forth 13:05:14 --- quit: proteus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:05:29 --- join: proteus (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 13:25:40 --- join: CrowKiller (Forther@HSE-Windsor-ppp250530.sympatico.ca) joined #forth 13:25:43 hi 13:26:22 i just finished my circuit that mimmic the 70$US machine at http:// www.voodoomachine.com 13:31:36 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@ip-216-25-202-123.vienna.va.fcc.net) joined #forth 13:31:42 hiya all 13:32:07 hi' 13:32:43 hiya CrowKiller 13:34:12 --- join: XeF4 (xef4@lowfidelity.org) joined #forth 13:34:30 hiya XeF4 13:34:36 heja 13:44:12 --- join: Speuler (~l@pD9502560.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 13:44:16 g'day 13:44:38 hiya Speuler 13:44:46 hello TBW 13:45:01 how's your mail server treating you today ? 13:46:04 TheBlueWizard: btw, do you know braille readers of the brand "alva" ? 13:47:02 huh? I haven't worked on my mail setup on Linux in a long time...besides, I am waiting for a full CD set to arrive sometimes next week... 13:47:31 don't know what "alva" is, so I can't answer your question 13:51:53 alva = a dutch manufacturer of braille terminals 13:52:31 shit, somebody parked a truck in my link 13:53:25 hmm...I see re: alva...so I don't know of any such braille users...(I live in USA) 14:00:32 that's a market dominated by tsc, or howerver they are called 14:00:49 in some of the alva models, the os is a forth interpreter :) 14:02:31 interesting 14:05:11 --- quit: proteus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:05:56 --- join: proteus (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 14:06:07 hiya proteus again 14:16:37 --- quit: XeF4 ("Lost terminal") 14:27:01 --- quit: Speuler (Excess Flood) 14:27:04 --- join: Speuler (~l@pD9502560.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 14:28:04 19~re 14:28:17 hiya Speuler again 14:28:31 :) 14:34:26 weak signal right now 14:35:47 hmm? 14:38:52 --- join: galexand (galexand@144-pool1.ras10.ncral.alerondial.net) joined #forth 14:41:18 hiya galexand 14:42:12 hey bluewiz 14:42:26 --- quit: Speuler (Excess Flood) 14:42:37 --- join: Speuler (~l@pD9502560.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 14:43:25 hiya Speuler again :) 14:43:55 :) 15:02:05 --- quit: Speuler (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:05:41 --- quit: proteus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:06:07 --- join: proteus (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 15:09:49 hiya proteus again 15:42:57 --- join: bwb (~bwb@ip68-4-124-131.oc.oc.cox.net) joined #forth 15:43:17 hiya bwb 15:46:56 hey 15:46:59 whats up? 15:50:04 nothing much 15:51:29 working on anything interesting related to forth? 15:55:09 I plan to d/l IsForth 1.09b soon :) 15:59:33 im working on my forth system inspired by colorforth and aha 16:00:15 --- join: jamc (~dne@as3-6-8.asp.s.bonet.se) joined #forth 16:00:40 hiya jamc 16:00:54 yo wiz 16:03:56 --- join: tathi (~josh@ip68-9-68-213.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 16:05:05 --- quit: proteus (Connection timed out) 16:05:13 yeah I just ported (most) of camelforth to 32-bit (in linux) 16:05:28 --- join: proteus (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 16:05:29 now just going to play around with different things (some ideas from cf and pygmy) 16:05:37 eventually make it run nativly 16:05:51 cool 16:57:06 --- quit: proteus (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 17:06:00 --- join: proteus (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 17:06:43 hiya proteus 17:14:26 gotta go...bye all 17:14:29 --- part: TheBlueWizard left #forth 17:22:40 --- nick: ian[sc3] -> ian[gone] 17:33:42 --- quit: skylan (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)) 17:33:44 --- join: skylan (sjh@Rockcliffe55.tbaytel.net) joined #forth 17:45:36 --- join: herkamire (~AQUATRON@208-58-108-97.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com) joined #forth 17:49:47 --- quit: jamc ("[x]chat") 17:52:42 I talked about forth in #python (yeah, bright I know ;)) 17:54:42 some of the (outspoken) people in there seemed to be very much against forth/chuck because it is trying to reinvent (the success of which they were doubting) instead of contributing to existing software movements. 17:57:33 heh 17:57:50 and i suppose they have no idea how long forth has been around 17:58:20 --- quit: proteus (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 18:03:37 heh, yeah, RE-invent may not be the right word :) 18:06:11 it depends on where you want to put it :) 18:06:21 --- join: proteus (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 18:06:26 i would be really curious to see what would happen if someone made a forth that provided all of the features ppl expect out of a modern operating system 18:06:28 they were getting mad about him scrapping linux and all the software for in. 18:06:42 most notably, the 'kernel' needs to run in separate privileged address space and have its own private dictionary. 18:07:15 yeah, I just have no interest in that at all... 18:07:20 which seems like quite an inconvenience but i think you might just be required to give that up in order to provide all of the features ppl really want 18:07:51 because i like protection and i like preemptive task switching 18:08:02 hmmm i guess i designed a 'forth kernel' around these ideas already that didn't actually separate out the kernel in the end. 18:08:18 i should have written some code :) 18:20:59 I like protection and preemptive multitasking too 18:22:24 i mean to me changing the mixer volume takes just a handful of words but in a unix it inevitably winds up needing to go through some big mess just to jump the barrier into kernel space so no one thinks of it as simple and you wind up with all these abstractions thrown in. 18:22:30 there has to be a good compromise there 18:27:21 i should probably learn from CF because my palmtop has 7 buttons on it. :) 18:32:52 heh 18:35:00 as a user runnging other people's software I definately like protection. for my own software (system) it might be more trouble than it's worth 18:47:55 well i want protection of some sort because i always pop off the bottom of the stack at some point 18:48:11 but do i need the kernel to be protected or do i just need a page marked invalid at the end of the stack. 18:54:29 I would like to be able to run/debug a program that crashes, without taking down the system. and I want to be able to play music while I debug :) 18:56:35 yes exactly. 18:57:06 i mean there's no reason the music player couldn't be cooperatively multitasked but i think if we want to scale over an arbitrarily large number of processes we will find it to our advantage to use preemptive multitasking 18:57:15 hmmm though i'm probably disregarding a lot of the evils of preemption. 19:00:12 I don't think preemtive multitasking is that bad 19:00:35 bah! I just want little computing "bricks", maybe 5 cm square by 1 or 2 cm high that I can connect by stacking together. 19:00:50 then no need for protection -- if you don't trust a program, run it on its own brick :) 19:01:14 it can crash it all it wants without affecting the others 19:01:31 if the kernel itself is preemptible that adds a huge mess but i guess you can maybe work around that hmmm. 19:01:49 in linux they have top halves and bottom halves of every device that interacts through an IRQ and i'd like to avoid that but i'm not sure how. 19:02:35 tathi but then we'd have to worry about networking our brickboard :) 19:02:57 true. I think it would be a fun system though :) 19:03:30 I want an emergency key (in linux, and in my system) that I can hit and it will put the monito and the keyboard in a normal state and give me a terminal 19:03:49 herk with magic sysrq you can kind of get that 19:04:00 i made an emergency key that would SIGSTP all non-root processes in case a user forkbombed :) 19:04:35 I don't want it to kill anything except maybe X 19:05:06 --- quit: proteus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:05:29 --- join: proteus (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 19:07:13 I hate that any stupid program can make my keyboard unusable. if there wasn't another computer I could use to get in and fix it, it would be as good as crashed. 19:08:04 i lost my 'second computer' two moves ago 19:35:38 --- join: galexan (galexand@223-pool1.ras10.ncral.alerondial.net) joined #forth 19:35:38 --- quit: galexand (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 19:49:32 --- quit: galexan ("woo hackers") 20:05:38 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 20:05:39 --- quit: proteus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 20:05:58 --- join: proteus (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 21:05:15 --- quit: proteus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21:05:51 --- join: proteus (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 21:31:23 --- quit: proteus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21:48:26 --- join: proteus (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 23:05:26 --- quit: proteus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 23:05:51 --- join: proteus (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 23:24:44 --- quit: herkamire ("goodnight") 23:57:02 --- quit: proteus (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/02.09.07