00:00:00 --- log: started forth/02.08.24 01:07:04 --- quit: sif (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:13:06 --- join: Soap` (~flop@202-0-42-22.cable.paradise.net.nz) joined #forth 02:47:04 --- quit: ChanServ (Shutting Down) 02:50:52 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #forth 02:50:52 --- mode: bear.openprojects.net set +o ChanServ 02:50:52 --- mode: ChanServ set +l 83 03:06:13 --- quit: Soap` (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 03:40:00 --- join: Fractal_ (lel@h24-77-171-228.ok.shawcable.net) joined #forth 03:43:39 --- quit: Fractal (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03:43:45 --- nick: Fractal_ -> Fractal 03:44:52 --- quit: ChanServ (Shutting Down) 05:52:56 What does the word "word" do? 05:53:46 --- join: sif (~sifforth@ip68-9-70-120.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 05:53:46 Type sif: (or /msg sif to play in private) 06:01:41 --- quit: onetom (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 06:02:26 --- join: onetom (~root@novtan.bio.u-szeged.hu) joined #forth 06:03:10 --- quit: onetom (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 06:03:56 --- join: onetom (~root@novtan.bio.u-szeged.hu) joined #forth 06:05:03 Robert: parses the input stream 06:08:53 --- quit: onetom (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 06:09:27 --- join: onetom (~root@novtan.bio.u-szeged.hu) joined #forth 06:12:48 Robert: u hear me? 06:19:52 Yeah, hey. 06:20:00 Was away for a while... 06:20:10 So, ehm... what exactly does it do? How is it used? 06:26:33 --- quit: onetom (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 06:26:44 --- join: onetom (~root@novtan.bio.u-szeged.hu) joined #forth 07:44:43 --- join: sbk_ (~kbs@dsl-65-184-98-221.telocity.com) joined #forth 07:47:20 --- quit: sbk_ (Client Quit) 08:23:03 Robert: sorry, i fell asleep and was woken up hourly :) 08:23:17 so, do u know how 2 use WORD?: 08:25:55 VOID doword() 08:25:55 { 08:25:55 CHAR brkchr; 08:25:55 brkchr = (CHAR) spop(INT32); 08:25:55 (VOID) io_skipspace(); 08:25:57 (VOID) io_scan(thetib, brkchr); 08:25:59 spush(thetib, CSTR); 08:26:01 } 08:26:03 quote from TILE 08:26:32 the variable, thetib is the Terminal Input Buffer 08:27:00 io_scan copies the found string 2 there 08:27:15 and it copies it from the current source 08:27:40 eg, from file, keyboard input, blocks, any memory region 08:28:15 most 4thes vary on what sources do they support and 08:28:32 how do they allow u to switch between sources 08:28:44 any question? 08:54:08 Ehm... 08:54:23 * Robert checks how it works in IsForth. 08:56:12 Hmm... 08:57:05 * Robert would like to know how to do some parsing. 09:06:12 it works a nonstandard way in isforth ithink.. 10:14:17 robert: it only works on a char by char basis i think 10:14:35 um 11:01:18 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@ip68-9-70-120.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 11:05:14 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 11:14:29 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 11:24:10 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 11:48:01 nice .pnm processing skeleton code 11:48:37 and coding theory is coming soon in a wiki 11:49:11 w coloured example 4th sources... ;) 11:49:21 --- join: divgrad (~hko@81.25.34.22) joined #forth 11:50:40 hello divgrad :) 11:51:02 onetom: which wiki? c2.com or sleeplessnights ? 11:51:39 goodhi futhin 11:52:28 divgrad: do you code forth? 11:53:25 im not coding, but i have a common interest 11:54:32 divgrad: then u r @the right place :) 11:55:19 divgrad: how long have you known about forth? :) 11:55:38 i guess 9 or 10 years 11:55:49 nice :) 11:55:59 futhin: own wiki, what is - hopefully - operates faster than the 2 1s mentioned above 11:56:41 sec: pizza :) 11:56:58 onetom: code a forth wiki :P 11:58:22 a wiki in forth? 11:58:45 i was just thinking about implemention zope in forth :) 11:58:56 it would b a hard task :) 11:59:22 it has an Object File System and the whole system is built upon it 11:59:24 why not start off with a simple & usable forth wiki, before worrying about zope? 11:59:52 :) its also far 2 complex 11:59:57 we need FML (forth markup language) 12:00:03 and it would b hard 2 test in public 12:00:03 then it would be a lot easier to implement the wiki 12:00:15 coz u have 2 interface it w some webserver 1st.. 12:01:19 fml is completely separate problem i think 12:03:03 divgrad: how did you discover this chan? i like to know how people find #forth :) 12:04:14 onetom: naw, wiki could be implemented in fml or forth (as a webscripting lang like perl or php..) 12:04:39 i read abt it somewhere in da web 12:06:02 futhin: i found it while was trying 2 expand my irc related knowledge 12:07:06 i was lookin 4 irc-nets, so i stumbled 2 opn (i also saw it through sf.net freshmeat.net earlier) 12:07:07 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:07:19 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 12:07:41 then i said a /list after connecting irc.opn 12:07:58 and read the whole list 12:07:58 . 12:08:15 JFtheLog :) 12:09:33 --- part: divgrad left #forth 12:09:48 aww shame 12:09:54 divgrad left :( 12:14:19 i should have pasted some 4th code :) 12:14:35 nevermind, nextime 12:22:51 hey, i forget what THROW does 12:23:04 it has something to do with error catching 12:28:06 futhin: you should start working on defining FML 12:29:06 herkamire: yeah 12:29:53 defining the application language is probably the best step in _any_ coding project :P 12:30:05 i'm working on an irc log processor right now 12:30:15 have a window open to gforth 12:33:24 cool :) start experimenting 12:33:26 I gotta go. 12:33:27 laters 12:33:31 --- quit: Herkamire ("leaving") 13:06:49 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:07:21 --- join: proteusguy (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 13:10:37 grr.. read-file isn't working :/ 13:10:39 hmmm 13:38:19 :-( 13:47:06 hm 13:47:11 robert: figure out WORD yet? 14:01:44 Uhmm.. 14:02:02 Well... not really, I won't go further into it (today). :P 14:04:17 !!!!!!!!! 14:04:18 :P 14:04:26 :) 14:04:29 * Robert pats futhin. 14:04:42 I'm starting school on Monday. 14:04:44 i used to know what WORD did 14:04:47 Might get some ideas from there. 14:04:48 Hehe. 14:05:01 * Robert looked it up in the IsForth sources. 14:05:20 --- join: proteus (~proteusgu@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 14:07:12 Hey proteus. 14:07:22 --- quit: proteusguy (Connection timed out) 14:07:41 Howdy. 14:07:45 --- nick: proteus -> proteusguy 14:07:53 Screwy connection again... 14:08:59 There's an old copy of Brodie's Starting Forth on Ebay FYI folks... 14:09:18 * proteusguy just noticed it and has no connection with the sale... 14:09:35 Hehe ;) 14:09:56 I guess it would cost some money to send it to Sweden. 14:10:19 I think the book was only going for $9 so shipping would prolly be worth it. 14:11:03 the bidding will be up to 1 million tomorrow! 14:11:37 doubt it but I did notice that I can't seem to find my copy in my library... hmm... it'll turn up next time I don't look for it. 14:13:00 how do i skip to the next space in a string? 14:13:11 s" ha1 ha2 ha3 ha4" 14:13:18 so i want to skip ha1 14:13:47 My mistake - $4.99 - no bids ends in a week started on the 23rd. only forth item under computers on all of ebay... :-( 14:15:04 when does it end? 14:15:05 futhin: Uh? Just...look for the next space in the string :) 14:15:25 robert: yeah but what's the word that does it? FIND? SEARCH? WORD? PARSE? 14:15:51 Uhmm... which string are you doing this on? 14:15:56 tib or something? 14:16:27 no not tib 14:16:52 : look-for-space ( a1 -- a1 ) begin dup c@ $20 = if exit then 1+ 0 until ; :P 14:17:46 bah! don't be fancy with hex! it's 32!! 14:18:12 Bah, decimal is for lamers :P 14:18:22 stack comments are for lamers :P 14:18:28 No. 14:18:41 You can't just use a base that consists of more than one different prime factors. 14:18:44 exit? 14:19:01 ah, nothin 14:19:04 And...2^n is the perfect base :-) 14:19:14 onetom: This isn't colorforth :P 14:19:25 * Robert noted CF uses ; for that...odd thing. 14:20:14 first off.. a forth that recognizes $20 is a lame forth that just wasted a whole bunch of cpu cycles 14:20:21 better to do hex 20 14:20:24 or just 32 :P 14:20:28 Heh. 14:20:31 hex 20 decimal 14:20:32 UGLY. 14:20:34 :-) 14:20:47 Better use hex everywhere then. 14:21:08 : nextspace begin dup c@ 32 = if exit then 1+ 0 until ; 14:21:42 Ugly. 14:22:23 futhin: So... mr. Decimal lover, what's 2^64 in your number system? >:) 14:22:26 (Don't cheat :P) 14:23:13 hm 14:23:18 10^ ummm 14:23:29 :P 14:24:01 let's see 2^10 = 1,024 14:24:10 What's 2^100? 14:24:17 >:) 14:24:40 We should all use base e. 14:24:41 But... 14:24:52 I have no idea how that number system would look, heh. 14:24:59 I got 10 oranges! 14:25:07 (That is, about 2.72 ones) 14:25:28 2^10 ~= 10^3 .. 10^3 * 10^3 * 10^3 = 10^9 probably 2^64 ~= 10^11 14:26:17 That's very inexact :-) 14:26:24 And... ehm. 14:26:29 :P 14:26:33 2^64 is quite far from 10^11 14:26:38 damnnn 14:26:43 10^13 ? 14:26:45 I'd say 2^64 is about (10^11) ^ 2 :P 14:26:46 Heh. 14:26:58 pfffffffffff 14:27:01 wops 14:27:03 yeah 14:27:19 (10^3)^6 14:27:23 my mistake 14:27:30 Yes. 14:27:45 10^21 14:27:48 maybe 14:28:04 adding on a few for the 4 in the 64 14:28:05 ln(2^64)/ln(10) 14:28:17 > ln(2^64)/ln(10) 14:28:17 ~19.26591972249479649366 14:28:20 10 14:28:22 err 14:28:30 About 10^19 then. 14:29:09 Which is quite close to your guess on 10^18 14:29:26 But, you missed by a factor of more than 2^3! 14:30:35 >:P 14:30:37 So... 14:30:40 I won, bbl :P 14:30:55 Beaten by a kid, futhin... learn your logarithms! 14:31:02 no you didn't win! you cheated! 14:31:03 (And convert to hex/binary) 14:31:07 No :-) 14:31:11 Bye. 14:31:36 can you convert 2^64 to 10^x in your head ? :P 14:38:04 cheater 14:38:09 :P 15:00:51 Well, anyone could convert 2^64 to about 10^19.2 in hishead. 15:00:59 (Anyone but futhin, that is) :-) 15:08:53 http://sec.dunasoft.com:9673/forth/ppmcopy 15:09:27 can any1 help 2 hack that page, so the the code has black bg? 15:09:39 try the edit page link 15:12:58 there isn't an edit page link :/ 15:16:35 naaah... at the bottom of the page.. 15:16:43 search 4 it w ctrl-f 15:16:50 (find it actually :) 15:17:14 oops, probably its not publicly editable... 15:17:18 wait a sec 15:22:35 its should already work now 15:22:40 -s 15:23:43 onetom: check it now 15:23:47 ppmcopy 15:23:58 btw, pre doesn't do color 15:25:12 its still white 4 me 15:25:35 onetom: check again 15:25:37 i changed it again 15:25:38 heh 15:26:23 check it now 15:27:29 onetom: check it now :P 15:27:33 hit shift-refresh 15:27:35 if you have to 15:30:20 thx :) 15:51:25 :) 16:40:02 --- join: ASau (ASau@158.250.48.197) joined #forth 16:42:21 Hi ASau :) 16:50:06 * onetom shakes futhins hands and kisses his footsteps 4 his carefully organized links page @ 16:50:21 Hello! 16:50:32 onetom: yep 16:50:33 hello asau! 16:50:35 that's the whole point 16:50:43 onetom: I can't differ between your english and Forth. 16:50:44 !!! http://sempiternity.org/forth/ !!! ;) 16:50:49 onetom: keep in mind that i'll be updating it and organizing it even better 16:51:02 ASau: when have u arrived? ive missed it 16:51:16 Today :) 16:51:17 01:40 -!- ASau [ASau@158.250.48.197] has joined #forth 16:51:28 Uhm... "arrived"? 16:51:32 Robert: ah, c now 16:51:32 Where? 16:51:39 here 16:51:45 to here 16:52:10 Well, I arrived to Moscow, arrived to here... 16:52:11 nobody value here 16:52:20 ASau to here ;) 16:52:29 Maybe, I arrived to somewhere else... 16:53:03 ASau: could u introduce yourself? 16:53:16 --- join: tathi (~josh@ip68-9-68-213.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 16:53:25 onetom: What do you mean? 16:54:16 Hi tathi. 16:54:25 ASau: He means, "A/S/L?" 16:54:38 hi robert 16:54:51 prging experience, intrests, how did u get here and for what, when have u heared about 4th for the 1st time... 16:55:04 Robert: pssst :p 16:55:11 onetom: ;) 16:55:36 * Robert remembers someone in here gave him his first forth lessons. 16:55:38 Robert: ASau ASL is unimportant 16:55:50 I remember MrReach, might have been futhin too. 16:55:59 Also remember nate37, but he was new to it. 16:56:05 onetom: Yeah, I was joking ;) 16:56:15 Robert: i know ... :) 16:58:25 ASau: r u busy to? 16:59:17 onetom: Started with "no documentation" on KP580BM2 (Z80-compat.) approx. 10 yrs ago... 16:59:34 Timezone +3. 16:59:52 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@ip-216-25-202-243.vienna.va.fcc.net) joined #forth 16:59:57 hiya all 17:00:33 hey TBW 17:00:39 yay! 17:00:43 we've put #forthos to sleep 17:00:47 it is officially dead 17:00:51 hiya tathi 17:00:58 someday in the future, it will be awakened! 17:01:12 ForthOS is dead? lack of interest? 17:01:15 no 17:01:17 the channel 17:01:26 the project continues underground 17:01:28 in secrecy 17:01:31 :P 17:01:40 TheBlueWizard: Hi :) 17:01:43 hmm 17:01:44 yeah, it will be awakened when futhin gets his forth OS going :) 17:01:46 in the hearts and souls of every Real Forther (tm) ;P 17:01:51 futhin: What is such conspiration for? 17:02:01 tathi: no, it's not really about "my" forthos 17:02:02 * TheBlueWizard decides futhin is becoming paranoid....just kidding :) 17:02:09 hiya Robert 17:02:11 tathi: onetom, kc5tja, and many others want a forthos.. 17:02:18 I should write a Forth OS for one of those fancy PICs ;) 17:03:01 yeah...only that each has his or her notion of what a (Forth)OS should be :P 17:03:31 Hehe. 17:03:36 --- quit: TheBlueWizard (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 17:03:59 In my opinion, it should be a Forth, with OS functions and programs in its dictionary. 17:04:11 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@ip-216-25-202-243.vienna.va.fcc.net) joined #forth 17:04:11 a forth os would be a general purpose os 17:04:12 Who's going to write the 2kB GUI? 17:04:23 futhin: Define "general purpose" :-) 17:04:30 thebluewizard: when i say "forthos" or "os in forth" i'm talking general purpose 17:04:34 replace windows 17:04:44 replace windows & linux as the os for everyone to use 17:04:45 I'm a programming/math freak, I don't need much more than programming tools ;) 17:04:48 :) 17:04:49 Heh. 17:04:56 my vision is more extreme than most 17:04:56 I don't want to go that low. :) 17:05:03 but i'd be happy to have a nice os for myself 17:05:06 to start off with 17:05:10 or whatever 17:05:14 all the tools i need, etc 17:05:15 I mean... "The new Windows", that's not really a nice thing to say about someone's OS ;) 17:05:24 development in a forth os would be _so_ fast! 17:05:26 * TheBlueWizard doesn't know Robert is a math freak :) 17:05:46 but that's only cause forth would be usable 17:05:48 TheBlueWizard: I'm not as much of a math freak than a computing freak, though. 17:06:07 futhin: yeah...ForthOS should be a "Un-Windows" :) 17:06:37 Robert: ah...so you want to do massive numeric crunching.... 17:06:46 more like un-unix :P 17:06:58 TheBlueWizard: Not really, my poor computers aren't exactly well-suited for that :) 17:07:14 TheBlueWizard: However, I have been doing prime number searches on a 80186 CPU :) 17:07:58 what sort of prime search? Mersenne prime searching? 17:08:25 [02:13] I should write a Forth OS for one of those fancy PICs ;) 17:08:25 me 2 17:09:00 TheBlueWizard: No, the simpliest form >:) 17:09:19 TheBlueWizard: With a 16-bit Pascal compiler... 17:09:46 Not a big deal, I just think it's a funny computer to do "number crunching" on. 17:09:47 ah...the garden variety primes that fits a 16-bit size.... 17:10:27 Not a lot of them, is it? :) 17:10:43 TheBlueWizard: un-win? what about doors? or gate? nonono, gates wont fit :) 17:10:52 lol 17:11:47 I was thinking of those commercial ads (7-UP ads, to be specific) 17:12:59 do u know the microsoft mambo video? 17:13:33 hmm...no 17:21:24 5.2M anybody interested in it? 17:22:20 futhin: there is no need 2 repeat every day that 4thOS uber alles 17:22:24 no....I don't have a fast connection here (at home) 17:23:04 futhin: u were talkin about visions.. well tell explicit details about your visions 17:23:13 onetom: just email that to john.rogers@usda.gov :) 17:23:35 futhin: or - whats more useful - code them. write sample code 17:24:03 futhin: create simulation layers below it so u can even test ur immaginations 17:24:09 onetom: don't you remember when i told you to write down your visions too? 17:24:16 remember how we were gonna write ours down 17:24:21 and put them up on the web or something? 17:24:23 and collaborate 17:24:41 and then we got distracted by collaboration software, multi-user editor.. 17:24:52 TheBlueWizard: what about emailing an url? 17:25:18 yeah, i know 17:25:20 lack of time 17:25:24 oh...I thought you are going to send the whole thing 17:25:30 but still.. repeating is a bit pointless 17:25:38 cuz you said 5.2 Meg 17:25:46 lets spend that time 2 sg more explicit 17:26:13 like the irclog, snake, skiing samples 17:26:46 TheBlueWizard: our univ mail server wont let it get through... 17:26:47 concentration game is pretty easy to write 17:27:13 onetom: got any ideas for developing a framework for os design? 17:27:28 or even more generalized as application design 17:27:28 like 17:27:29 uml? 17:27:31 what about that? 17:27:34 that sounded interesting 17:27:35 well, just /msg me an URL, and I can take it from there (emailing that URL to my work address) 17:28:00 yeah, uml sounded interesting, but chucks articles has changed my mind 17:28:20 so i reprioretized the tasks 17:28:46 understanding good 4th coding style got 2 the 1st place 17:29:07 nowdays.. 17:29:17 yeah 17:29:22 i suppose 17:29:37 coz im very curious about his & jeffs statements 17:30:12 like? 17:30:30 mostly about the 10x ... 17:31:21 (sec: my arrow keys just changing the colors of the status line of epic4... 17:31:34 & i cant convince them not 2 do so.. ) 17:32:05 OCOAOBOD 17:32:08 oops :) 17:32:18 bis 17:32:21 --- quit: onetom ("ircII EPIC4-1.1.2 -- Are we there yet?") 17:34:00 --- join: onetom (~root@novtan.bio.u-szeged.hu) joined #forth 17:34:18 much better now 17:34:41 r00t alert! 17:34:47 onetom: Where are those articles you were talking about? 17:34:57 TheBlueWizard: eh.. 17:35:33 onetom: are you IRCing as a root? 17:36:17 TheBlueWizard: well.. i have 2 admit... i am.. for some months so far 17:36:32 robert: ultratechnology.com like... ultratechnology.com/thoughtful.htm 17:36:45 Oh, OK. 17:36:47 I just asked apt2 to tell you about root 17:36:51 I'll check it tomorrow. 17:37:12 TheBlueWizard: yeah, i saw it & i know it 17:37:30 onetom: I would advise you to use regular account for IRCing 17:37:52 * TheBlueWizard will not say further about it 17:37:58 TheBlueWizard: but i also know about the last part... where it says: "...it INCREASES the danger..." 17:38:25 heh...it sure does! :) 17:38:46 TheBlueWizard: that is: if i also do sec updates, i dont have 2 b afraid practically.. 17:39:51 TheBlueWizard: and ircing on not so wild land like opn DECREASES this type of danger... 17:40:16 apt-get often requires root privilege, so I normally do that as a root. apt-get connects to known sites, so that's OK, generally (there is a slight risk of man-in-the-middle attack, etc...) 17:40:22 There are script kiddies here, too :) 17:40:40 But not as many as DalNet, I suppose. 17:40:44 as on* 17:41:21 Robert: yeah! in fact I personally witnessed a nasty attack against OPN network, which caused me and great many others to get disconnected 17:41:58 TheBlueWizard: ? frequent apt-get upgrade from security.deb.org -> system safe enough even 4 ircing as root 17:42:51 i wont cry 2 much if i get disconnected :) 17:42:56 apt-get != safe enough to IRC as root 17:43:07 let it b the largest problem of all 17:44:18 TheBlueWizard: irc is also unsafe as a normal user so running it root wont make it much worse.. 17:44:20 I'd suggest you read some security materials...or even buy a book on security, like I did...good information! and that is just a start! Security is a big, complicated topic in its own right 17:45:11 tell me an attack type what is more painful in case of root ircing than the normal user case.. 17:46:09 * onetom has translated some chapters from "maximum linux security" 2 hungarian... 17:46:17 the risk running IRC as a normal user in a properly configured Linux system (Debian does a good job out of the box) is limited to damages inside that account's parameters (e.g. deleting all files that belongs to that account, for example)...but the risk of running IRC as a root is much, much bigger 17:47:09 sure, but im doing it from a bare gateway machine 17:47:24 i also have a backup on cd 17:47:37 and i store no useful info on it 17:48:11 other machines on its intranet r mostly turned off 17:48:32 and they run win sux anyway.. 17:49:06 so the worst what could happen is 17:49:26 making my gw a zombie 17:49:38 if you have nothing to lose, then fine...however, I still recommend using the normal account...why? because of system logging....if someone managed to root into your machine, s/he can alter the log and then do some nefarious deed that would then originate from your box, and then the police would come breaking into your home, accusing you of being the criminal :) 17:49:39 or simply formating it 17:50:28 onetom: also, the person would have access to any other box that trusted yours 17:50:28 thats what imeant when saying zombie 17:50:43 trusted? how? 17:51:02 what kind of trust r u talkin about? 17:51:18 rsa passphrase? 17:56:03 other comps on your lan 17:56:13 other comps which you access 17:56:17 just win machines 17:56:20