00:00:00 --- log: started forth/02.08.18 00:07:58 --- quit: proteus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 00:08:10 --- join: proteus (~scherrey@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 00:58:31 --- join: euworld (melons@njd.paradise.net.nz) joined #forth 00:58:36 --- nick: euworld -> njd 01:05:20 --- quit: DrBoB ("xchat") 01:07:38 --- quit: proteus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 01:08:16 --- join: proteus (~scherrey@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 01:29:26 --- quit: njd ("fractal 1.0.9b60 - Drive C: Error, (A)bort (R)etry (I)gnore (K)ick (S)cream - http://fractalscript.com") 02:07:44 --- quit: proteus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 02:08:36 --- join: proteus (~scherrey@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 03:07:10 --- quit: proteus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 03:07:28 --- join: proteus (~scherrey@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 03:29:32 --- nick: Fractal -> blurgggggggggg 03:32:21 --- nick: blurgggggggggg -> Zhivagggggggggo 03:33:54 --- nick: Zhivagggggggggo -> Fract0llama 03:51:52 --- nick: Fract0llama -> Fractal 04:07:49 --- quit: proteus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 04:07:54 --- join: proteus (~scherrey@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 04:43:53 --- nick: kc-dnd -> kc5tja 04:52:17 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK") 05:07:04 --- quit: proteus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 05:07:46 --- join: proteus (~scherrey@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 06:08:06 --- quit: proteus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:08:26 --- join: proteus (~scherrey@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 06:14:47 --- join: futhin (~thin@h24-64-175-61.cg.shawcable.net) joined #forth 06:18:56 Hey futhin :) 07:07:58 --- quit: proteus (Connection timed out) 07:08:49 howdy robert 07:08:57 --- join: proteus (~scherrey@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 07:08:58 how's your forth coded in C coming along? 07:27:17 Is proteus coding a Forth in C? 07:27:24 no 07:27:27 i mean you robert 07:27:30 Heh. 07:27:32 robert: how's your forth coded in C coming along? 07:27:35 I'm not coding any C forth. 07:27:43 i thought you were? 07:27:48 Where did you get that from? 07:27:49 No. 07:28:03 I'd not code a forth in any other language than asm or maybe Forth ;) 07:28:09 hrm 07:28:13 i thought you were coding something in C 07:28:17 something really lame ;) 07:28:30 Well, I've been coding stuff in C. 07:28:38 And in Forth and asm. 07:28:49 Not much else latley. 07:29:04 BASIC is too useless, so is Pascal (compared to C). 07:29:19 Forth and asm are both cute languages >:) 07:29:29 If you call them languages, hehe. 07:29:44 Oh, well.. 07:30:29 I'll eat, brb. 07:39:32 --- join: tcn (tcn@tc2-login45.megatrondata.com) joined #forth 07:39:47 hello tcn :) 07:39:51 hey 07:39:58 it's fuckin hot out 07:40:13 110? 07:40:34 i only understand celsius 07:40:46 30 to 35 degrees celsius is hot ;) 07:41:21 i prefer 5 to 20 degrees celsius that's my favorite temperature range 07:43:44 it's over 30 07:43:44 -10 to +10 is good :) 07:43:44 heh, naw, -10 i have to put on clothes 07:43:53 0 to 20 :P 07:44:30 tcn: i saw the conversation you had with onetom about how C and Forth are similarly efficient for their respective processors 07:45:12 tcn: however, don't you think that forth encourages the programmer to find smaller & more simple solutions & more simple applications etc.. 07:47:45 no more than any decent language.. it might _limit_ you to simple things though.. 07:50:28 if a Forth Markup Language was implemented on forth, and a Postscript-like langauge (2d drawing) was implemented on Forth, and maybe a string handling vocabulary was implemented on forth, and networking/socket vocabulary implemented on forth.. would that help? :) 07:50:43 futhin: Around +20 is nice. 07:50:50 +20 and not too sunny. 07:51:00 Maybe one or two degrees hotter. 07:51:31 robert: overcast clouds, 20 to 10 degrees. perfect ;) 07:51:36 no sun, no blue sky 07:51:37 ;P 07:51:55 10 is too cold. 07:52:14 When you don't need anything more than a T-shirt, it's perfect. 07:52:15 naww 07:52:20 -10 is too cold 07:52:31 Heh. 07:52:32 -5, i wear a t-shirt and shorts 07:52:42 No, you don't :) 07:52:43 i used to anyways 07:52:47 yeah i'm serious 07:53:05 heh 07:53:22 Hrm, nah. 07:53:23 You can be outside in 5 mins with that clothing in -5. 07:53:25 5 degrees is pretty warm 07:53:34 5 degrees to 15 degrees is perfect 07:53:36 But then you'll get blue and die. 07:53:40 No. 07:53:44 yes 07:53:49 gotta have a little chill 07:53:55 it's better to be a little chilly than to be a little hot 07:53:58 hot = BAD! 07:54:08 Yes, but 20 isn't hot. 07:55:47 that's right, but anything above 20 is hot :P 07:55:47 i like it just a tad chilly 07:55:47 to be honest, i don't notice chill at 10 degrees 07:55:47 only at 5 degrees and below 07:55:47 It's 33 in my room. 07:55:47 10 degrees = i don't notice the weather at all.. it is perfectly neutral 07:55:47 Well, it's like that if I wear some shirt over the T-shirt. 07:56:14 huh? don't you wear a trenchcoat jacket? ;) 07:56:45 No. I wear a gray shirt. 07:56:53 Or sometimes, I wear a black shirt. 07:57:02 don't you carry guns to school? ;P 07:57:27 trenchcoat wearing, gun carrying guys talk on irc! :P 07:57:28 heh 07:57:58 I always carry a gun to school. 07:58:03 heh 07:58:05 But I don't shoot people there. 07:58:08 I take them in the woods. 07:58:38 and then do 'em 07:58:41 have you noticed how many people on irc have guns? it's not coincidence ;) 07:59:20 I've never even seen a gun, dear. 07:59:29 But I know, IRC people in general are a bit...insane. 07:59:57 smart people _are_ insane 08:00:03 jeez, didn't you know that? 08:00:08 how did you get on here?! 08:00:14 rofl 08:00:34 I'm not that insane... 08:00:39 insanity is relative 08:00:43 But then again, who said I'm smart? :) 08:00:49 smart people are insane, relative to non-smart people 08:01:01 Yeah, I compare myself to the 5 billion lunatics out there :) 08:01:29 Well, I'm going downstairs to watch a movie, it's getting hot up here. 08:01:31 33C :-/ 08:01:41 °_^ 08:01:46 heh 08:03:16 wow 08:03:49 onetime i went biking in 36 and i wasn't hot.. it was weird 08:05:56 my tolerance for heat seems to have jumped a huge amount since i was a teenager 08:05:57 dunno 08:08:09 --- quit: proteus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:08:46 --- join: proteus (~scherrey@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 08:13:58 hahah 08:14:18 i found my web pages from 1999 on my old ISP 08:19:08 --- quit: tcn ("Leaving") 09:08:18 --- quit: proteus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 09:08:55 --- join: proteus (~scherrey@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 10:02:52 --- join: Speuler (~l@pD950253C.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 10:03:31 dobre 10:03:38 Speuler! 10:03:44 Good evening :) 10:03:52 fits 10:04:41 just finished - more or less - cleaning out the bus 10:05:45 running double wireless :) 10:06:47 keyboard to notebook, and notebook to gateway 10:07:25 noticed anything of the discussion going on concerning opn, and the donation requests ? 10:08:05 Not much :) 10:09:40 irc.oftc.net seems to be in among the defectors 10:09:47 --- quit: proteus (Success) 10:10:16 --- join: proteus (~scherrey@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 10:18:31 proteus: windows or wireless ? 10:42:01 huh??? 10:42:07 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@ip68-8-206-226.sd.sd.cox.net) joined #forth 10:53:33 proteus: you're yoyo-ing 10:54:03 those were the most likely causes :) 11:09:17 --- quit: proteus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 11:09:51 --- join: proteus (~scherrey@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 11:14:06 :) 11:24:46 --- nick: Speuler -> CampFire 12:11:00 --- quit: proteus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:11:50 --- join: proteus (~scherrey@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 12:23:33 --- quit: CampFire (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 12:24:17 --- join: CampFire (~l@217.80.37.34) joined #forth 13:10:57 --- quit: proteus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:11:04 --- join: proteus (~scherrey@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 13:39:27 --- quit: Fractal ("My damn controlling terminal disappeared!") 14:11:32 --- quit: proteus (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:13:48 --- join: Fractal (lfk@24.77.171.228) joined #forth 14:37:00 --- nick: CampFire -> Speuler 15:36:01 --- quit: Speuler (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 15:44:52 --- join: futhin_ (thin@h24-64-175-61.cg.shawcable.net) joined #forth 15:44:52 --- quit: futhin (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 15:49:10 la la la la 15:50:32 deck the halls with boughs of holly 15:50:32 it doesn't feel like a sunday to me 15:50:32 because i went to work today 15:53:29 there should be an annual event where all the people of the world get together and KILL THEIR EGOS! 15:53:29 * kc5tja yawns 15:54:14 Egos? I don't have an ego... ;D 15:55:28 :D 15:55:43 my ego is the size of a mountain 15:56:36 i am working on killing it 15:56:47 die mountain of ego die! 15:57:07 The best way to kill your ego is to confront it with your insecurities. That's how Dilbert killed his ego, after all. :) 15:58:31 heheh 15:58:53 * kc5tja listens to Genesis' A Trick of the Tail (the album) 15:59:23 no see, when a person has an ego, they spent a lot of time maintaining it and deluding themselves and hiding their insecurities 15:59:44 cause they want to pamper their ego and stuff.. 15:59:56 ego feeds you semuta 16:00:03 insecurities don't :P 16:00:32 --- nick: futhin_ -> futhin 16:01:45 kc5tja: so i've been reading the "build your own forth" docs and um, the brad rodriguez papers 16:01:59 trying to get a real understanding of the forth internals 16:02:13 and perhaps code a really simple forth in asm 16:02:20 * kc5tja nods 16:02:32 i'm interested in starting off and coding the SIMPLEST possible forth 16:02:53 with the minimum number of primitives.. 16:03:19 kc5tja: if i'm doing a STC forth, does that mean i don't need to code NEXT ? 16:03:30 Correct. 16:03:44 would you say a simple STC forth would be the simplest forth? 16:04:01 If you're already familiar with assembly language, definitely. 16:04:16 The coupling between Forth and the machine is much tighter with STC than with other methods. 16:04:54 w 16:05:06 what would be the minimum number of primitives? :) 16:05:16 There isn't a single person who can answer that question. 16:05:22 hmm 16:05:41 The number varies between 25 (Chuck Moore's MachineForth) to around 50 or so (EForth). 16:06:00 when is a forth implementation forth? when is a forth implementation not forth? heh 16:06:16 forth = virtual machine with 2 stacks 16:06:39 Forth is 2 stacks and colon definitions. 16:06:50 dictionary 16:08:30 is the stack computers online book good for understanding the innards of forth? 16:08:59 Not really; it is more for understanding stack hardware rather than software. 16:09:45 However, it does contain something you might find handy: frequencies of specific Forth words. 16:10:03 hmm 16:11:18 brb 16:16:22 maybe i should focus only on MachineForth 16:16:31 since it seems pretty nice 16:16:40 like BEGIN UNTIL 16:16:59 no DO LOOP or FOR NEXT at all iirc :) 16:17:15 * kc5tja hasn't used DO/LOOP or FOR/NEXT in any Forth in years. 16:17:35 :) 16:17:45 I've always used BEGIN/WHILE/REPEAT or BEGIN/UNTIL. It's a habit I picked up from programming in Oberon, actually, since it does not have a FOR statement. 16:18:17 It results in substantially easier to read code, in my opinion. There are a couple of times when DO/LOOP would have been easier to read, but I find that's a rare case. 16:18:35 i'm looking at ultratechnology.com and feeling a strong urge to ask jeff fox to let me fix up the damn site & make it less ugly & more organized 16:18:47 Heheh 16:18:57 * kc5tja has often wanted to thoroughly re-engineer his site too. 16:19:04 jeff fox's site? 16:19:12 heh :) 16:19:13 yeah 16:20:00 maybe it could be easily done with 1 .css file for the whole site.. and then i tell jeff fox to put the css link inside all the html files he has 16:20:22 * kc5tja would use something like Zope to make things nice and easy for me. 16:20:35 But I doubt his web provider would provide Zope support. 16:21:09 is zope a wiki? 16:21:12 No. 16:21:17 ok 16:21:26 There is at least one wiki for it though. 16:21:27 ZWiki 16:21:31 ahh 16:22:03 Although, Jeff would probably thoroughly object to using such a "complex" piece of software (and it does have a steep learning curve) 16:22:40 So perhaps writing a markup language preprocessor in Forth would work for him. 16:22:50 In either case, I absolutely refuse to work directly in raw HTML anymore. 16:23:14 * kc5tja would definitely use a Wiki-like preprocessor for his site though. 16:24:41 i would be happy to fix up his site in raw html.. and just put in a .css file that makes it a lot more attractive 16:24:42 * kc5tja has been considering making one for his own local website. 16:24:55 I'd use more than just a css file. 16:25:23 Some very simple graphics delicately placed can make his site a whole lot more professional looking without using any significant amounts of bandwidth. 16:25:34 yeah 16:26:09 That chronological history of his site can be easily replaced with a blog-type page. 16:26:16 Or, at least, something that looks like a blog. 16:26:33 jeff fox seems a little distant to me, doesn't seem to be very interested in doing much about forth?? :( 16:26:42 or maybe it's just summer? 16:26:59 He's still active on the ColorForth and MISC mailing lists. 16:28:00 but is he willing to work with me a little bit and let me reenginer his site? 16:28:14 I don't know. Ask him. :) 16:28:35 with a bit of site re-engineering, it could be a much more profitable site (i.e. more people buy the stuff he's selling) 16:28:58 If you think it looks bad now, you should have seen it just two years ago. :) 16:29:24 heh :) 16:29:37 i've noticed some improvements to it over the last year 16:30:16 and the store part of the site has been updated lately 16:30:21 s/lately/recently 16:30:29 * kc5tja nods 16:30:29 bbiab, naptime 16:30:33 OK 16:30:36 :) 16:30:44 It's getting close for me to shower anyway 16:30:46 my back is bothering me 16:30:48 hence 16:30:56 naptime :P 17:22:32 --- join: tathi (~josh@68.9.68.213) joined #forth 17:42:18 --- join: proteusguy (~scherrey@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 17:51:06 well welll wellll 18:05:38 ? 18:07:40 --- quit: proteusguy (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 18:08:54 --- join: proteusguy (~scherrey@24-197-147-197.charterga.net) joined #forth 18:36:48 --- quit: proteusguy ("Client Exiting") 18:37:44 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 18:53:37 --- nick: kc5tja -> kc-shower 19:17:20 --- nick: kc-shower -> kc5tja 20:49:17 --- join: I440r (mark4@pool-63.52.217.245.ipls.grid.net) joined #forth 20:51:04 --- quit: I440r (Client Quit) 21:45:08 --- nick: kc5tja -> kc-store 22:24:27 --- quit: clog (^C) 22:24:27 --- log: stopped forth/02.08.18 22:24:44 --- log: started forth/02.08.18 22:24:44 --- join: clog (nef@bespin.org) joined #forth 22:24:44 --- topic: 'http://www.msmisp.com/futuretest/Forth's_Dilemma.htm | Forth: using bits without limits | x86 Linux Forth coded in asm - http://isforth.clss.net | home of forth - http://www.ultratechnology.com' 22:24:44 --- topic: set by futhin on [Thu Aug 08 18:57:06 2002] 22:24:44 --- names: list (clog Soap` Fractal onetom Robert kc-store futhin @ChanServ sif) 22:24:48 --- quit: Soap` (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 22:24:48 --- quit: Fractal (bear.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 22:24:56 --- join: Fractal (lfk@24.77.171.228) joined #forth 22:24:56 --- join: Soap` (~flop@202.0.42.22) joined #forth 22:27:23 --- nick: kc-store -> kc5tja 23:08:31 --- join: geakazoid (JB@adsl-63-202-178-201.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) joined #forth 23:09:23 --- quit: geakazoid (Client Quit) 23:20:34 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK") 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/02.08.18