00:00:00 --- log: started forth/02.08.05
00:00:50 <onetom> futhin: and i also met a very attractive girl on aikido too!
00:00:56 <futhin> :)
00:01:10 <onetom> futhin: so go 2 learn 2 dance and/or aikido
00:01:13 <kc5tja> DAMN YOU!  I never meet girls at aikido!  :D
00:01:24 <onetom> both helps in ur diet, anyway
00:01:28 <onetom> kc5tja: :DD ;p
00:01:39 <futhin> onetom: yeah :)
00:01:46 <futhin> i'm just so lazy about preparing low carb foods
00:01:48 <futhin> like salads
00:01:59 <futhin> and i don't really know how to wash vegetables properly
00:02:01 <onetom> kc5tja: in our group, there 3 girls & ~8 guys
00:02:02 <futhin> so i avoid them
00:02:03 <futhin> lol
00:02:09 <onetom> time 2 leave
00:02:18 <futhin> onetom: have fun! :)
00:02:46 <onetom> futhin: ehhh, dont care washing! thats america;everythin is made of polietilen ;p
00:03:21 <onetom> futhin: i come from a village; i dont really wash aaaanything, frankly
00:03:29 <futhin> heh
00:03:35 <onetom> futhin: thx
00:03:37 <onetom> bfn
00:03:42 <futhin> well i know my dad washes the vegetables with water and some baking soda
00:04:03 <onetom> http://people.freebsd.org/~picobsd/picobsd.html
00:04:15 <onetom> search the word FORTH on the page ;)
00:04:34 <kc5tja> We just wash our vegetables with water.
00:04:39 <kc5tja> Gets the insecticide off them.
00:04:57 <kc5tja> It has nothing to do about anything else, though.
00:05:13 <onetom> futhin: jeeeezuz, hes hygenee-paranoia :)
00:05:39 <kc5tja> Well, you can eat all the DDT you want.  I, for one, value my liver and other organs.
00:06:08 <kc5tja> And it's not paranoia -- if it was, I'd be wearing white cotton gloves right now.
00:06:28 * kc5tja has experienced food poisoning before.  It's **NOT** a pleasant experience.
00:08:41 <futhin> try some baking soda too :P
00:08:54 <futhin> but you'll have to rinse like two times to get the baking soda taste out
00:09:10 <kc5tja> Yeah; I find that a normal rinsing works perfectly well for me.
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00:15:09 <Serg_penguin> hey !
00:15:32 <kc5tja> Hello :)
00:16:17 <Serg_penguin> what are u work on now ?
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00:18:19 <kc5tja> My Forth's architecture.
00:18:29 <kc5tja> Trying to make some hypothetical code fragments, to see how it feels to write software in it.
00:19:14 <Serg_penguin> brb, testing hardw...
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00:24:56 <Serg_penguin> at saturday, i wrote a proggie to get emails from html files
00:25:21 <Serg_penguin> i seek 4 job now, i dunno spam :)
00:26:10 <Serg_penguin> 1,2k src, 960 bin ( w/ upx )
00:26:44 <Serg_penguin> also i half-wrote a bomb-toss game ;)
00:27:15 <Serg_penguin> land generation and bomb fly work from console 
00:27:39 <kc5tja> Cool.
00:27:47 <Serg_penguin> made stacks and parameters 4r it
00:28:01 <Serg_penguin> 100 STACK LOC
00:28:05 <Serg_penguin> loc s>
00:28:08 <Serg_penguin> loc >s
00:28:13 <Serg_penguin> loc s@
00:28:51 <Serg_penguin> : ptry p{ 1p@ . 2p@ . }p ;
00:29:25 <Serg_penguin> if u wanna scr, i'll  maybe post it on web
00:29:38 <Serg_penguin> but it's half done
00:30:03 <Serg_penguin> maybe, will drop 2d bombie and make 3d one, w/ landscape
00:30:43 <kc5tja> Nahh, I'm not very heavy into games.
00:30:57 <kc5tja> And the games I do like to play tend to be the 2D varieties anyway.  :)
00:31:02 <kc5tja> They're easier on my feeble mind.
00:31:36 <Serg_penguin> brb, swapping cd-rw to be tested...
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00:38:03 <futhin> hum
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00:42:13 <Serg_penguin> and what aer ideas u working on in "forth architecture" ?
00:42:21 <Serg_penguin> new control constructions ?
00:42:42 <kc5tja> Not really.
00:42:58 <Serg_penguin> what it will be or do ?
00:43:08 <kc5tja> I'm trying to find the best way to make a general purpose Forth environment suitable for writing production, event-driven applications in.
00:43:57 <kc5tja> Seeing how the screen output, keyboard input, and multitasking subsystems all work together from an application writer's point of view.
00:44:13 <Serg_penguin> i dunno what events are u using, but i made a cool thing for keyboard hits
00:44:33 <kc5tja> An "event" is a generic term -- any event should wake up any interested task.
00:45:01 <kc5tja> I already pretty much have that interface taken care of, and I'm pretty happy with it.  It's screen output that I'm most concerned with right now.
00:45:21 <Serg_penguin> table of events and words bound to them ?
00:45:26 <kc5tja> No.
00:45:35 <Serg_penguin> will it be GPL or what ?
00:45:41 <kc5tja> Each task in the system has a dedicated word, called a wake-up predicate.
00:45:59 <kc5tja> If it returns non-zero, the task it's associated with will switch to a running state.  Otherwise, the task will remain in a sleeping state.
00:46:28 <kc5tja> I have no idea what license it'll have; IF it'll have any license at all.
00:47:01 <Serg_penguin> but anyway, my scripts and utils are way too lttle for using such tools, and i dunno use m/task
00:47:17 <kc5tja> Licensing gets sticky with Forth, because the language itself doubles as its own run-time environment, and using GPL would require people who use FS/Forth for their applications to also release their source under GPL as well, since the mere use of FS/Forth is the act of linking against it.
00:47:54 <kc5tja> I use multitasking to make the design of the overall system easier -- individual applications need not use it.
00:48:13 <Serg_penguin> turn-based gamez are synked by kbd, real-time - by vertical retrace
00:48:14 <kc5tja> But I want to know what it would be like to hit the worst case scenario.
00:48:38 <Serg_penguin> STDI/O are not synked at all
00:48:49 <Serg_penguin> STDI/O apps
00:48:50 <kc5tja> You're making assumptions about my environment that aren't true.
00:48:57 <kc5tja> I'm not using C.
00:49:15 <Serg_penguin> i talk strictly about Forth !
00:49:28 <kc5tja> Standard I/O don't need to be "synched."
00:49:49 <kc5tja> Real-time games don't need to be synched by vertical retrace (which doesn't exist on PCs anyway in any real form)
00:50:01 <Serg_penguin> in my forths, KEY and EMIT are stdi/o
00:50:24 <kc5tja> OK, but that doesn't mean they can't be synchronized against something.
00:50:30 <kc5tja> This is especially true in a multitasking system.
00:50:44 <Serg_penguin> i have some little exp in demoscene
00:50:58 <Serg_penguin> synking w/ retrace is kewl
00:51:17 <kc5tja> I am a proud owner of a Commodore Amiga, and I can assure you that I know all about vertical retrace.
00:51:25 <kc5tja> I'm not a newbie.
00:51:45 <Serg_penguin> amiga rulez !!! i was even thinking of buying one....
00:52:17 <kc5tja> Highly recommended.
00:52:25 <kc5tja> But only if you can afford it.
00:52:32 <kc5tja> They don't make or support them anymore.
00:53:34 <Serg_penguin> brb, gonna swap some wrek....
00:53:42 * kc5tja will be goign to bed soon.
00:53:54 * kc5tja needs to work tomorrow.
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00:58:33 <Serg_penguin> on sync
00:58:55 <Serg_penguin> imagine u are strafing enemy airfield in airsim
00:59:34 <Serg_penguin> and then u'r rockets hit standing aircrafts full of fuel and ammo, allscreen goes hell
01:00:10 <Serg_penguin> but so much fire needz more cpu cycles, and game stops for sec or two
01:00:36 <Serg_penguin> if it was synked by retrace - u was hanging in air for a while
01:00:54 <Serg_penguin> but if by real time clock - u are deep in the ground.....
01:02:34 <Serg_penguin> f19 is driven by r/t klok - if windoze skeeds, i lose control
01:02:41 <Serg_penguin> suxx
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01:39:19 <Serg_penguin> hi
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12:26:54 <I440r> proteusguy that stuff your working on - is it for you or for work ?
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14:12:14 <proteusguy> its a proof of concept for something I hope to turn into work.
14:18:36 <I440r> cool
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15:11:01 <futhin> i440r: may the forth be with you!
15:19:24 <I440r> he
15:19:29 <I440r> it is :P
15:19:36 <I440r> cept ive not worked on isforth in 2 weeks :P
15:21:05 <kc5tja> Come to the dark side....
15:22:38 <futhin> what is the dark side forth? i forget
15:23:49 <kc5tja> C of course... :D
15:31:30 <futhin> imperative languages
15:33:01 <I440r> lol
15:33:14 <futhin> procedural languages?
15:33:16 <I440r> i would call java the dark side
15:33:25 <I440r> i would call c the "dark side wannabe" heh
15:33:41 <kc5tja> Java is a vastly superior language to C.
15:33:58 <kc5tja> I have to admit, however, that C is superior to C++.  :)
15:35:03 <futhin> you lie! C++ owns! 
15:36:06 <I440r> theres no difference between c and c++ - they both suck equally :P
15:36:14 <I440r> actually,
15:36:21 <I440r> neither c nor c++ suck
15:36:27 <I440r> the people who CODE in them do heheh
15:36:33 <kc5tja> Ahhh...your friends are already dead!  See, they walked right into my trap.  Soon this space station will destroy them all.  Go on -- take it ... FEEL your anger!!
15:38:32 <I440r> :)
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17:07:34 <TheBlueWizard> hiya all
17:08:14 <I440r> tbw!
17:08:15 <cleverdra> hello TBW
17:08:20 <TheBlueWizard> hiya I440r!!!
17:08:24 <TheBlueWizard> hiya cleverdra
17:08:42 * TheBlueWizard is grabbing "Beneath AppleDOS" now
17:13:18 <TheBlueWizard> ok...5+3 encoding meets the requirements: (a) high bit is set, (b) no consecutive zeroes...so 00 maps to AB, 01 to AD, 02 to AE, 03 to AF, 04 to B5, and so on til 1F to FF.  AA and D5 are reserved for special uses
17:15:14 <I440r> similar to gcr then
17:16:02 <TheBlueWizard> ok...6+2 encoding meets the requirements: (a) high bit is set, (b) no three consecutive zeroes...so 00 maps to 96, 01 to 97, 02 to 9A, 03 to 9B, 04 to 9D, and so on til 3F to FF.  AA and D5, once again, are reserved for special uses
17:16:05 <TheBlueWizard> :)
17:18:47 <TheBlueWizard> So, the 5+3 encoding would take 410 bytes to store the original 256 bytes (Apple disk sectors are 256 bytes long, from API viewpoint), and 6+2 requires 342 bytes to store those 256 bytes...I hope that satisfies all of your curiosity :)
17:20:30 <I440r> :)
17:24:10 <TheBlueWizard> anything else you wanna know about Apple DOS (it has a good scoop on how disk reading/writing works, in part cuz the software (in Apple II itself) has to do all that work!)
17:25:01 <I440r> nah - just brung back memories is all heh
17:25:14 <TheBlueWizard> ah...hehe :)
17:26:31 <TheBlueWizard> I understand that Apple II emulators actually emulate the disk I/O stuff, so it's possible to run some copy protected disk images (of course it has to be in nibble format)
17:26:36 <I440r> wizardry was best on the apple
17:26:51 <I440r> the cheat i used there doesnt work on the pc :P
17:26:56 <I440r> create 6 bishops
17:27:17 <I440r> take them into the dungeon and have them all try identify iten 9 of a possible 8 items heh
17:27:28 <I440r> when one succeeds he gets infinite experience
17:27:45 <I440r> take all 6 chars back to castle and train them all up to level 8 ninja with ALL spells :)
17:28:20 <I440r> then go back into dungeon and teleport everyone to one square away from bad guy on bottom level
17:28:22 <TheBlueWizard> I only saw a bit of Wizardry...never played it...but I gave my brother and his buddy a bit of info on how to decipher sector interleaving...they had some disk utility that lets them poke around on the Wizardry data disk...poke in some FFs and see what happened...yow!  99,999 experience points!! :)
17:28:28 <I440r> go in and kick his ass heh
17:28:42 <I440r> ya
17:28:47 <I440r> thats not as fun :)
17:28:48 <TheBlueWizard> cool cheat!
17:29:14 <TheBlueWizard> well, it was fun poking around...my brother raved about those findings :)
17:30:00 <I440r> heh
17:31:28 <TheBlueWizard> not sure whether Wizardry is now in public domain....hard to tell with all those crazy copyright laws
17:34:01 <I440r> its not but if you search on "abandonware" there are sites that have it for download :)
17:35:08 <TheBlueWizard> heh...abandonware it is then :)  of course that's a grey area...(checking my moral compass...dang, it is spinnin' wildly! :-P )
17:35:30 <I440r> heh
17:41:22 <TheBlueWizard> well, gotta go...bye all
17:41:40 <I440r> nite dood
17:41:55 <TheBlueWizard> bye I440r :)
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20:46:45 <onetom> hi
20:47:04 <onetom> welcome everybody from the sziget! :)
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22:45:20 <futhin> heya onetom
22:45:32 <futhin> hi all?
22:45:38 <futhin> anyone awake? :P
22:45:39 <futhin> i440r
22:45:41 <futhin> kc5tja
22:45:44 <futhin> onetom
22:48:41 * Soap` is, for very small values of "awake"
22:53:50 <futhin> heh
22:54:01 <futhin> well i guess i'm gonna go watch some star trek
22:54:05 <futhin> TNG of course
22:54:23 <futhin> all others are bastardizations of TNG, even the original ;)
22:54:44 <Soap`> Them's fightin' words!
22:55:10 * kc5tja is here
22:55:15 <kc5tja> I'm on the phone though
22:55:27 <futhin> i'm gonna go watch an episode, be back in 50 minutes
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23:43:04 <futhin> annnnd i'm back
23:43:17 <futhin> now i'm gonna go watch the second :P
23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/02.08.05