00:00:00 --- log: started forth/02.07.16 00:27:13 --- quit: rob_ert (Remote closed the connection) 00:32:13 --- join: rob_ert (~robert@h137n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #forth 01:26:19 --- join: bk_ (bk@rt.fm) joined #forth 01:28:01 --- quit: bk_ (Client Quit) 02:48:52 --- join: Fare (fare@samaris.tunes.org) joined #forth 02:48:53 --- quit: njd (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 02:57:23 --- nick: Soap` -> SoapZZz 05:15:25 --- join: dsmith (firewall-u@cherry7.comerica.com) joined #forth 05:19:42 --- join: cleverdra (julianf@0-1pool36-42.nas2.florence1.sc.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 05:57:56 --- join: Serg_penguin (~z@nat-ch1.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 05:58:02 hi all\ 05:59:13 --- quit: Serg_penguin (Client Quit) 09:00:28 --- join: I440r (~mark4@1Cust7.tnt1.bloomington.in.da.uu.net) joined #forth 09:43:17 --- quit: SoapZZz (vinge.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 09:43:17 --- quit: Fare (vinge.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 09:43:17 --- quit: ChanServ (vinge.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 09:43:17 --- quit: cleverdra (vinge.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 09:43:17 --- quit: dsmith (vinge.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 09:43:17 --- quit: rob_ert (vinge.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 09:43:17 --- quit: Fractal (vinge.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 09:43:17 --- quit: I440r (vinge.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 09:43:40 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #forth 09:43:40 --- join: I440r (~mark4@1Cust7.tnt1.bloomington.in.da.uu.net) joined #forth 09:43:40 --- join: cleverdra (julianf@0-1pool36-42.nas2.florence1.sc.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 09:43:40 --- join: dsmith (firewall-u@cherry7.comerica.com) joined #forth 09:43:40 --- join: Fare (fare@samaris.tunes.org) joined #forth 09:43:40 --- join: rob_ert (~robert@h137n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #forth 09:43:40 --- join: SoapZZz (~flop@202.0.42.22) joined #forth 09:43:40 --- join: Fractal (toet@h24-77-171-228.ok.shawcable.net) joined #forth 09:43:40 --- mode: vinge.openprojects.net set +o ChanServ 09:47:11 you 2 always come in together :P 09:47:22 They're in cahoots! 09:47:41 heh 09:54:07 --- quit: Etaoin (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 09:59:47 --- join: Etaoin (~david@ljk9.sat.net) joined #forth 10:10:10 --- quit: I440r (Excess Flood) 10:11:11 --- join: I440r (~mark4@1Cust7.tnt1.bloomington.in.da.uu.net) joined #forth 10:56:51 --- quit: dsmith ("later..") 11:18:42 --- join: CrowKiller (Vapo_Rulez@cnq5-233.cablevision.qc.ca) joined #forth 11:19:06 --- quit: cleverdra (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:41:47 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@wsip68-15-54-54.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 11:58:47 --- quit: CrowKiller ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby") 12:57:03 --- join: cleverdra (julianf@0-1pool36-42.nas2.florence1.sc.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 12:57:47 I440r, are you awake? 12:58:23 no :) 12:58:23 zzzz. snort... 12:58:26 heh 12:58:34 whussup ? 12:58:47 isForth still needs nasm-98e, doesn't it? 12:59:59 it needs a nasm that has the %xdefine directive 13:00:05 the latest nasm is best 13:00:29 0.98.34 ? 13:01:33 that works 13:01:59 ah, cool. 13:02:50 you installing ? 13:03:10 In about thirty minutes, yes. 13:04:02 :) 13:04:19 write me a 486 assembler :) 13:04:41 ack. I'll see what I can do. 13:07:04 --- join: dsmith (firewall-u@12.15.7.30) joined #forth 13:07:15 heh 13:07:45 i took a look at pasm386 last nite but theres way too much in there thats VERY 16 bit specific 13:07:54 it assumes its running in 16 bits 13:08:01 and its fpc specific 13:13:38 --- quit: cleverdra ("Leaving") 14:01:35 --- quit: Herkamire ("leaving") 14:06:33 --- nick: SoapZZz -> Soap- 14:20:26 --- join: n_ (~n@proxy1.ineva.com) joined #forth 14:28:26 n_ 14:34:00 n_I440r 15:16:02 --- quit: dsmith ("later..") 16:20:20 --- quit: n_ (Remote closed the connection) 16:20:40 --- quit: I440r (Excess Flood) 16:20:59 --- join: I440r (mark4@67.241.7.7) joined #forth 16:30:41 --- quit: Fare (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 16:41:19 --- join: CrowKiller (Vapo_Rulez@cnq5-233.cablevision.qc.ca) joined #forth 16:42:43 --- join: Stepan (~stepan@ns.virtualhost.dk) joined #forth 16:42:55 hey :) 16:45:02 --- quit: I440r ("Reality Strikes Again") 16:45:19 there is no reality ;) 16:46:33 --- nick: Soap- -> SoapAway 16:56:25 damit du es mit boot laden kannst 16:56:54 heh 17:17:33 --- join: tathi (~josh@68.9.68.213) joined #forth 17:31:09 --- join: futhin (~thin@h24-64-175-61.cg.shawcable.net) joined #forth 17:33:40 crowkiller 17:34:16 ? 17:36:39 yes futhin? 17:43:02 hows your forth system coming along? 17:44:33 ive written a small part today 17:44:48 its been 3 days since i didnt touched it 17:44:48 the -if 17:45:04 i wrote it like this 17:48:03 --- join: CrowKilr (~Vapo_Rule@cnq5-233.cablevision.qc.ca) joined #forth 17:48:03 --- quit: CrowKiller (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 17:48:13 sorry for the interruption 17:48:27 my connection is quite unstable 17:48:36 %MACRo MinusIf 1 17:48:36 push %1 17:48:36 jns $+3 17:48:36 ret 17:48:36 pop EBP ;trash register 17:48:37 %ENDMACRO 17:49:22 also im trying to put reduce to maximum those conditional statements 17:50:10 im writing right now the compiler for my syste, 17:50:13 system 17:50:42 I can't write the editor if the compiler isn't made, maybe it will be finished tonight 17:51:22 the compiler is really easy to code, following the aha point oif view of what a compiler is 18:29:31 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@ip68-7-162-51.sd.sd.cox.net) joined #forth 18:35:13 is it a betetr way to do this: 18:35:21 %MACRO Next 0 ;maximum count: 2^31 18:35:21 dec ECX 18:35:21 js $+3 18:35:21 push [ESP] 18:35:21 ret 18:35:22 %ENDMACRO 18:35:31 the next is for a for/next loop 18:38:24 woops, i was away 18:38:25 reading now 18:39:01 hmmm 18:39:41 becareful about getting too caught up in the beauty of small asm macros.. it could slow you down drastically or stop you from finishing the forth system :P 18:40:21 --- join: dsmith (~dsmith@p57.usnyc8.stsn.com) joined #forth 18:40:24 --- join: n_ (~n@proxy1.ineva.com) joined #forth 18:40:36 i use them becuase i dont have an editor 18:40:43 and nasm got a great macro support 18:41:09 i would like to keep my macros free from as many arguments as possible 18:43:57 and as free of conditional statements as possible 18:46:15 the previous next must finish a word, the ret at the end dont get skipped, but i only save one byte 18:46:28 js $+4 would be better 18:55:46 --- quit: kc5tja ("[x]chat") 18:57:39 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@ip68-7-162-51.sd.sd.cox.net) joined #forth 19:30:54 does someone here got formulaes or guidelines to design strong electromagnets? 19:31:06 bit off topic but I ask everywhere 19:31:08 ;p 19:32:11 A nail, lots of wire wrapped around the nail, and a battery. Oh, and a switch to turn it on and off easily without shocking yourself. :) 19:32:55 http://www.sciencefirst.com/magnetism.html 19:32:59 the last one at the bottom 19:33:08 it lift 500 lbs with only 2 D batteries 19:33:30 and at the family's metal working shop we got 2 electromagnets able to lift 5000lbs 19:33:34 Those batteries won't last very long, but I can believe it. It's all in the induced current -- voltage has nothing to do with magnetism. 19:33:41 with batteries, but those cost 4000-5000$ CAN 19:33:53 ok great =) 19:33:57 so I need big wires 19:34:07 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@ip68-14-9-225.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 19:34:29 lot of small wire or some turns of big wire? 19:34:46 Depends on current going through the coil. 19:35:27 Basically, you want a wire that is just big enough to handle the ohmic losses of the current going through the wire, but small enough to obtain as dense a magnetic field as possible. 19:37:42 thanks, it will help me a lot im sure of it 19:39:59 i've found somewhere that using a transformer could be useful getting current 19:47:11 If you double the current passing through a wire, the heat generated will increase 4 19:47:11 times! If you triple the current passing through a wire, the heat generated will increase 9 times! Things can 19:47:11 quickly become too hot to handle. 19:47:27 now I understand how soldering guns work ;p 19:48:31 --- nick: SoapAway -> Soap- 19:51:10 --- join: njd (junk@njd.paradise.net.nz) joined #forth 19:57:02 --- join: kc5tja_ (~kc5tja@ip68-7-162-51.sd.sd.cox.net) joined #forth 19:57:45 --- quit: kc5tja (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 19:58:00 use the tesla coil thingie to convert voltage to amp and vice versa 19:59:12 --- join: Mongrel (~ant@67.82.73.235) joined #forth 19:59:31 --- nick: kc5tja_ -> kc5tja 19:59:55 Tesla coils create voltage, not current. 20:00:03 What you want to create current is a capacitor. 20:00:28 well when i say "tesla coil" i'm not refering to the actual tesla coil 20:00:38 but the converter thingie that tesla invented i believe.. 20:00:51 there's a wire with coils 20:00:56 and another wire with coils 20:01:09 coils close to each other 20:01:46 the electricity goes thru one wire, goes thru the coil, generates a field, the other wire picks it up and generates electricity 20:02:05 if there is the same amount of coiling then the electricity is generated with the same properties 20:02:14 *transformer* 20:02:16 ;pp 20:02:18 if there's more coiling for the receiving end, then there's .. 20:02:19 heh 20:02:42 when i saw it, it was part of a diagram for making an electricity arc 20:02:51 for zapping people and fun stuff ;) 20:03:01 like having a 1:120 ratio 20:03:37 the voltage get 120 times stronger but it looses current as much 20:04:00 r=u/i maybe im not sure if its the correct formulae with coils 20:04:06 we saw this one in physics 20:04:28 n1/n2 = V1/V2 20:04:40 if it is a 120:1 ratio instead, then the amp gets 120 time stronger 20:04:48 you want amp for your magnet 20:04:49 where n1 is the number of turns in the primary winding, and n2 is the number of turns in the secondary winding 20:05:00 kc5tja: but to find current? 20:05:05 is it the same rule? 20:05:13 yes 20:05:15 CrowKilr: Yes, but you ahve to apply Ohms Law to derive the equation. 20:05:17 V=I/R 20:05:21 V = IR 20:05:25 oops 20:05:27 :) 20:05:48 replace u by v and i got it right hehe ;p 20:05:49 However, that doesn't describe the whole picture, because we don't know what R is. 20:06:01 so i get the r rating for my coil 20:06:02 It's better to use P=IE instead (Power is voltage times current) 20:06:06 n1/n2 = IR1/IR2 and you cancel the dang R :P 20:06:19 and then you have n1/n2 = I1/I2 20:06:21 * kc5tja sighs 20:06:22 i remember we used that one for power losses 20:06:27 I'm telling you that won't work! 20:06:37 pff :P 20:06:38 Because R changes 20:06:50 i know it won't work 20:07:00 why did i have the emoticon at the end of that statement? :P 20:07:07 --- quit: Herkamire ("leaving") 20:07:12 the R is higher with the more coils, and other stuff 20:07:30 Yes, but R is a complex impedance, not just a simple ohmic resistance. 20:07:33 and all the other stuff with the field etc 20:07:44 yeah 20:07:49 --- quit: tathi (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 20:20:27 so let say I have a incoming wire doing 120 loops at 5v 1 amp and another wire doing 1 turn, ill get 120*5 volts and 1/120 amps 20:24:27 --- quit: kc5tja (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 20:24:58 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@ip68-7-162-51.sd.sd.cox.net) joined #forth 20:32:17 crowkilr: didn't you hear? you need current, not voltage.. 20:32:25 i know 20:32:38 you talked about giving shocks to people 20:32:47 so i tested the rule using that situation 20:32:48 ;p 20:33:26 do you know here about m-state materials/ORMUS? 20:35:14 http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/tw/magtrap.htm 20:35:35 there's soem interesting things on that side, this is why I wanted to make a electromagnet 20:36:34 things like sweet, golden, tunneling water (water passing through solid glass) ;ppppp 20:38:27 http://www.tesla-coil-builder.com/bifilar_electromagnet.htm 20:38:48 futhin I think that,s the thing you talked about 20:39:52 no it wasn't what i was talking about 20:39:58 i wasn't talking about magnets at all 20:40:01 but don't worry about it 20:40:07 i'm going to bed now :) 20:40:14 its a bifilar coil 20:40:16 good night 20:40:27 the coil that tesla discovered 20:41:15 well i wasn't talking about the coil :) 20:41:27 i was talking about the transformer :P 20:41:44 i might've mixed up transformer and tesla stuff 20:41:58 because i'm relying on my memories of a book that i read 7 years ago 20:44:14 kk 20:45:08 --- quit: futhin ("g'night") 20:48:47 A bifilar coil is a bifilar transformer in English speaking countries. It's important to note that parts often have different names in different countries. 20:50:00 http://www.users.bigpond.com/ARTOWORLD/bifilar.html 20:50:13 the coil explained with the color legend is really great 20:50:23 voltage per turns = v/6 20:54:37 Bifilar windings are used all the time in ham radio and other RF circuits. They are great at making baluns. 20:56:32 now i have to research about harmonic spirals AKA golden mean spiral AKA Square spiral 20:58:19 this is the perfect spiral to achieve maximum vortex effect, if my winding is made with thhis form, im sure ill get maximum effect 20:58:36 Actually, no... :) 20:59:02 You get maximum magnetic density if the coil windings are packed as close together as possible, and with as large a diameter as is feasible. 21:00:49 but for my application, a vortex of water is made and a magnetic field is applied 21:01:10 a very simple device to make, just need to have big. powerful magnets 21:01:19 much like loudspeaker magnets 21:01:42 --- quit: n_ (Remote closed the connection) 21:01:53 http://www.waterharmonies.com/AVdetails.htm 21:01:55 thsi device 21:01:58 is a bare spring 21:02:02 but they seel it 21:02:09 telling people it make the water alive 21:02:15 --- join: n_ (~n@proxy1.ineva.com) joined #forth 21:02:32 No offense, but again, I don't go for that "kind" of science. 21:02:40 and the site about magnet trap talks about collecting a water "essence" of some kind using a vortex and a magnet 21:02:47 this time they have builidng plans 21:02:49 photos 21:02:53 descriptions 21:02:59 m-state elements have a patent actually 21:03:34 http://www.alivewater.net/pages/wrimages.html 21:03:37 thsi si from canada 21:03:44 m-state elements?!?! 21:03:44 they make a vortex in a water pipe 21:03:49 to make it "alive" 21:03:58 search on the net 21:04:04 about "ORMUS" 21:04:09 or "M-State" 21:04:58 those are closely related to alchemy: superconductor at room temperature, the mstate gold pure powder weight 56% of its real mass only 21:05:00 that's pretty "out there" 21:05:34 the water "concentrate" made with the magnet traps is oily, sweet to the taaste and got some weird propreties 21:06:25 ill try to build a powerful electromagnet and then build a similar system 21:06:43 once again: 21:06:44 http://www.subtleenergies.com/ormus/tw/magtrap.htm 21:06:47 its all there 21:07:51 about one year ago I've read the lectures given by David Hudson, the discoverer of these Monoatomic state metalic elements 21:12:21 poor man's philosopher's stone ;o) 21:20:37 --- quit: n_ (Remote closed the connection) 21:22:37 --- join: n_ (~n@proxy1.ineva.com) joined #forth 21:23:14 --- quit: kc5tja (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 21:26:02 --- quit: CrowKilr ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby") 21:50:06 --- quit: dsmith (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 21:54:03 --- join: dsmith (~dsmith@p57.usnyc8.stsn.com) joined #forth 22:45:04 --- quit: dsmith (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 22:57:54 --- quit: Mongrel ("BitchX: its what's for lunch") 23:14:23 --- join: sbk_ (~kbs@dsl-65-184-98-221.telocity.com) joined #forth 23:28:38 --- quit: sbk_ ("Leaving") 23:43:37 --- quit: n_ (Remote closed the connection) 23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/02.07.16