00:00:00 --- log: started forth/02.07.08
00:02:18 <CrowKiller> anyway woking tommorow afternoon and its 3 AM here ;p (written all this stuff on this chan to be sure not to forget it)
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05:52:05 <Serg_penguin> hi !
05:52:28 <cleverdra> hello Serg.
05:52:38 <Serg_penguin> how are u ?
05:53:03 <Serg_penguin> i was sick last week :(
05:54:13 <Serg_penguin> now ceased working on my parser....
05:54:51 * cleverdra was fine.
05:55:26 <Serg_penguin> the damn thing don't see EOF....
05:55:32 <Serg_penguin> it loops 4ever....
05:55:49 <cleverdra> gforth's KEY returns -1 on EOF.
05:56:02 <cleverdra> : unixkey key dup 0< if bye then ; -- is what I commonly have in unix filters.
05:56:30 <Serg_penguin> but i use russian DOS 32 DPMI forth,
05:57:00 <Serg_penguin> and use QUERY and WORD for sucking input
05:57:13 <cleverdra> so.  See what those words return on EOF.
05:58:01 <Serg_penguin> how ? docs are VERY brief, and no source
05:58:23 <Serg_penguin> i SEE some words, but some are in asm ;(
05:58:50 <cleverdra> Write a program that uses them, that reads from a tiny (simple contents) file and that reports (--> .S <--) the state of the stack after every call to those words.
05:59:17 <cleverdra> Maybe WORD starts returning zero/negative-lenth strings, or something.
05:59:38 <Serg_penguin> will try )..
05:59:47 * cleverdra suggests "a  b cd" as the entirety of the file
06:00:33 <Serg_penguin> #TIB is 0 after EOF, but also on empty lines..
06:01:28 <Serg_penguin> does QUERY set some vars ? it dunno return anything
06:01:40 <Serg_penguin> ex for #TIB ?
06:03:26 <cleverdra> No, QUERY doesn't take any arguments.
06:03:44 <cleverdra> is TIB different after EOF?
06:03:48 <cleverdra> or >IN ?
06:04:22 <cleverdra> It's too bad that you don't have REFILL -- that returns a flag, TRUE if REFILL was able to get new input.
06:06:40 <Serg_penguin> i'll dump all them in loop
06:07:27 <Serg_penguin> i have REFILL but it seems broken or needs explicit Ctrl-C or ASCII 27
06:07:54 <Serg_penguin> it returns the same all the time
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06:29:34 * cleverdra hums at http://forth.sourceforge.net/algorithm/backtracking/index.html
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06:48:49 <kors> hi people
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06:51:56 <rob_ert> Hi kors 
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13:24:42 <Speuler> g'day
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13:39:51 <MrReach> hihi!
13:40:00 * dsmith is away: Talking to People
13:40:23 <rob_ert> HI MrReach :D
13:40:30 <rob_ert> Long time no see.
13:40:40 <MrReach> been *WAY* busy
13:40:55 <rob_ert> :)
13:40:58 <MrReach> nothing Forthish, unfortunately
13:41:00 <rob_ert> Summer vacation here.
13:41:04 <rob_ert> Not busy at all.
13:41:12 <MrReach> yep, sorta the same
13:43:28 <MrReach> heh, my summers are chaotic
13:43:35 <MrReach> everybody wants to do everything
13:46:25 <rob_ert> Huh?
13:46:32 <rob_ert> "everybody"?
13:46:57 <MrReach> my wife, my mistress, my god daughter, my business partner, my friends
13:47:18 <MrReach> everybody gets active and wants to include me
13:47:21 <rob_ert> Hehe,
13:47:34 <rob_ert> I'm only included in my family's trip to Germany later this summer.
13:47:38 <MrReach> so  I end up not sleeping right and *WAY* tired
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14:00:36 <rob_ert> Hi tcn :)
14:00:46 <tcn> hey\
14:01:38 <tcn> i'm planning another OS..
14:02:11 <rob_ert> Weee :)
14:02:16 <rob_ert> What will it be like?
14:02:22 <rob_ert> (Written in Forth? :)
14:02:25 <tcn> nope
14:02:31 <rob_ert> OKay... what then?
14:03:13 <tcn> should work with forth but I'm thinking of a simplified version of Unix
14:03:51 <rob_ert> For normal PCs?
14:03:56 <tcn> yup
14:04:15 <rob_ert> :)
14:04:20 <tcn> i want to get some input
14:04:35 <rob_ert> I'm playing with the idea of writing an OS for the Microchip PICs.
14:04:39 <tcn> hehe
14:05:13 <rob_ert> But... 68 bytes of RAM is a bit starved :-/
14:05:27 <rob_ert> Guess I'll go with other models than the 16f84a.
14:05:39 <tcn> whoa, I didn't realized it was THAT small.. it shouldn't have an OS!
14:05:44 <rob_ert> Do you know if there's any with more than 1kB of RAM?
14:05:50 <rob_ert> So?
14:05:56 <rob_ert> It can still be fun to write one.
14:05:58 <tcn> i don't know
14:06:11 <rob_ert> I'm planning to write a VM and store it in the ROM.
14:06:19 <rob_ert> Then programs will be run in RAM.
14:06:34 <rob_ert> Wich gives us a few advantages :)
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15:20:13 <CrowKiller>  http://project.honeynet.org/reverse/results/
15:20:25 <CrowKiller> this stuff is amazing
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16:46:16 <rob_ert> Hi kc5tja :)
16:46:19 <kc5tja> Howdy
16:47:39 * kc5tja just got back from his vacation yesterday, and I'm taking today off to recouperate and get settled back in.
16:48:28 <kc5tja> This is the smallest I've ever seen this channel.  What happened?
16:48:57 <rob_ert> Well, tcn, i440r and MrReach just left.
16:49:08 <rob_ert> Same with Speuler.
16:49:12 <rob_ert> And dsmith.
16:49:25 <kc5tja> Left as in never wanting to come back, or left as in just logged off.
16:49:27 <rob_ert> And cleverdra.
16:49:29 <kc5tja> s/./?/
16:49:39 <rob_ert> They just logged off for the day :)
16:50:01 <kc5tja> Oh, OK.  :)
16:50:27 <CrowKiller> http://project.honeynet.org/reverse/results/
16:50:53 <CrowKiller> the submissions for this challenge is great stuff
16:51:46 <CrowKiller> I learned quite a few thing about linux assembly reading the top 20, not finished it though
16:53:05 <kc5tja> galeon http://project.honeynet.org/reverse/results/
16:53:11 <kc5tja> grr
16:56:58 <kc5tja> What in the world is it?
17:02:36 <CrowKiller> the honeynet project put on the net machines qith default linux installation etc etc making them easy to hack by script kiddies and black hats
17:02:54 <CrowKiller> but the admin of the machine is aware that its vulnerable
17:03:05 <CrowKiller> so he log everything and see everything the attacker does
17:03:24 <CrowKiller> so the challenge consisted
17:03:41 <CrowKiller> of taking a binary left over there by an attacker and decompile it
17:04:25 <CrowKiller> complete analysis and methods used are required to be sent in forms of structured html submissions
17:05:23 <CrowKiller> almost everybody was using IDA pro, but one guy used perl to write his own set of tools
17:05:44 <CrowKiller> the first one, with a score of 43.4/50
17:23:32 --- nick: SoapZZz -> Soap-
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18:12:21 <CrowKiller> I'll try to build a 3 register forth applicable to many systems by using this simple construct:
18:12:22 <CrowKiller> %MACRO Call 1		;Cyclic call mechanism
18:12:22 <CrowKiller> 	mov EAX, [ESP-4] 	;The old Tos becomes the "worked on" data
18:12:22 <CrowKiller> 	call %%1		;The call is made, a ret will occur.
18:12:22 <CrowKiller> 	mov [ESP-4],EAX	;The processed data is fed back into TOS
18:12:22 <CrowKiller> %ENDMACRO
18:12:30 <CrowKiller> did someone saw this somewhere?
18:12:36 <CrowKiller> is it new?
18:14:34 <CrowKiller> it simplifies things for me because the data and return stack are now unified into one "stack"
18:15:10 <kc5tja> I have no idea what properties that will give.  However, the Steamer16 does something vaguely similar (from what I can see) in hardware.
18:18:35 <CrowKiller> in wich way?
18:19:05 <kc5tja> Its data stack is only 3 elements deep.
18:19:11 <kc5tja> And it's the only stack it has.
18:19:58 <CrowKiller> kk
18:20:09 <CrowKiller> but the two stacks are there within this macro
18:21:09 <CrowKiller> the way i see this in action is that the return grows toward zero,; at the start, the data stack is on the "other side ", empty of any element
18:21:33 <CrowKiller> or maybe just one element
18:22:12 <CrowKiller> esp start at size of return stack and data stack -1
18:22:25 <CrowKiller> -1, -4bytes I meant
18:37:01 <CrowKiller> my previous statements are wrong, since the TOS is [ESP minus 4], the array is truly the datastack, with a return stack waiting to be created
18:58:49 <CrowKiller> im reading about interrupts in protected mode to build a circular stack fake
18:59:39 <CrowKiller> when esp hit zero a exception occurs ill build an Interrupt descriptor table and put the code mov ESP, "Size of stack" 
19:00:10 <kc5tja> Interesting.  :)
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20:16:06 <CrowKiller> hi
20:16:33 <kc5tja> re
20:17:09 <kc5tja> Well, I got my new 10m antenna up, but it's not perfect.  I really need to just buckle down and get the pipe lengths for a good 10m quarterwave out on the porch.
20:18:59 <Herkamire> hello :)
20:21:29 <CrowKiller> kc5tja: http://products.analog.com/products/info.asp?product=AD9857 this is the chip I talked to you a while back then, but you were too busy, anyway if you didnt take a look... ;p
20:22:21 <kc5tja> What is it again?
20:22:29 <kc5tja> I recall it had something to do with the radio.
20:22:46 <CrowKiller> CMOS 200 MSPS 14-Bit Quadrature Digital Upconverter
20:23:08 <CrowKiller> "digital in analog out" module for radio processing
20:24:09 <CrowKiller> for a working radio station its only missing a filter for the output,  amp and antenna.
20:24:27 <CrowKiller> from what I understand , im no pro in that field
20:29:32 <kc5tja> Ahh
20:30:24 <n_> hey guys
20:30:29 <n_> how are the adventures in Forth-Land?
20:30:48 <kc5tja> I was on a week-long vacation.  I'll be starting up again soon.
20:31:16 <CrowKiller> visions are blurry with concepts slowly picking up clarity upon others
20:31:16 * n_ has been picking through 8051.f today
20:39:44 <CrowKiller> never used 8051's, got the manual for the Atmel AT89 free by mail though
20:39:52 <CrowKiller> when avr got out i jumped on them
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21:26:46 <futhin> hello all
21:26:52 <futhin> anybody alive? :)
21:27:04 <futhin> howdy cleverdra, crowkiller, kc5tja..
21:28:19 <cleverdra> hello futhin.
21:28:24 <cleverdra> I'm alive, almost.
21:28:45 <futhin> almost? a bear gouge you or something?
21:30:04 <cleverdra> hahaha.  that's funny.
21:30:12 <futhin> :)
21:30:19 <futhin> so what's happening with you?
21:30:56 <cleverdra> My faith in the immediate unhelpfulness of humanity has been renewed.  Refreshed.  I feel invorgated with misanthropic/despairing thoughts.
21:31:14 <cleverdra> How are you?
21:31:33 <futhin> i'm good
21:31:39 <futhin> reading a really cool book :)
21:31:54 <futhin> it's a life philosophy that the author formulated for himself, it's basically about having a realistic worldview and being rationally selfish
21:32:01 <futhin> the author was influenced heavily by ayn rand i think 
21:32:11 <cleverdra> Sounds like it.
21:32:31 <futhin> it's definitely a very useful philsophy
21:32:46 <cleverdra> Cool.  What's it called?
21:33:04 <futhin> looking out for number one by robert j. ringer
21:33:32 <cleverdra> hah.  Title makes it sound like a misanthropic/despairing book.
21:35:00 <cleverdra> Have you read "Live on 24 hours a day", or something like that?
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21:37:12 <futhin> nope..
21:37:18 <futhin> ew
21:38:21 <kc5tja> re futhin
21:40:14 <futhin> hey what's up kc :)
21:40:21 <n_> what's a good, solid, modern, forth development environment?
21:40:25 <n_> money is no object, if that matters
21:40:50 <futhin> n_: any other requirements? what platforms?
21:40:54 <futhin> how portable?
21:41:04 <n_> any platform, portability isn't an issue
21:41:16 <kc5tja> Nothing much.  Relaxing after a weeklong vacation.  I'll be going back to work tomorrow.
21:41:38 <kc5tja> n_: SwiftForth for Windows looks to be very, very good.
21:41:53 <kc5tja> QuartusForth for PalmOS is excellent from what I have seen of it too.
21:42:42 <n_> which do you recommend from among the opensource/free forths?
21:43:21 <futhin> what about that forth that came before swiftforth
21:43:29 <futhin> the one chuck develed on a bit ?
21:44:00 <futhin> n_: isforth seems promising, and it's being actively developed :)
21:44:03 <kc5tja> n_: From what I've seen so far, the answer would be, "The one you write yourself."
21:44:25 <kc5tja> futhin: polyForth you mean?  It's no longer available last I checked.
21:45:18 <futhin> TILE and uh.. the other one
21:45:22 <futhin> i hear they are good :P
21:45:48 * kc5tja doesn't know.  Never even heard of TILE before.
21:46:05 <CrowKiller> me neither
21:46:31 <futhin> i liked pygmy
21:46:43 * kc5tja nods
21:46:44 <CrowKiller> btw good to see you futhin, been a while too ;p
21:47:08 <CrowKiller> i liked the three instruction forth artcile and code made by frank seargent
21:47:09 <futhin> crowkiller: yeah, i'm busy working these days :)
21:48:28 <futhin> pygmy and fpc for dos, TILE and uh..  FICL for *nix
21:48:52 <futhin> and isforth/lina/gforth/bigforth for *nix
21:49:09 <futhin> n_: download them all, play with them all, then build your own :P
21:49:22 <futhin> crowkiller: hows your forth system going?
21:49:34 <CrowKiller> you only need to do two things: read about colorforth and the aha system
21:49:50 * kc5tja laughs
21:49:59 <kc5tja> Here we go...  You should go on a TV commercial... :)
21:50:15 <futhin> crowkiller: and then build the forth system in your head and code everything in your head since it's so simple ;)
21:50:38 --- mode: ChanServ set +o futhin
21:50:39 <CrowKiller> futhin: im trying to develop code using this macro
21:50:40 <CrowKiller> %MACRO Call 1      ;Cyclic call mechanism
21:50:40 <CrowKiller>    mov EAX, [ESP-4]
21:50:40 <CrowKiller>    call %%1
21:50:40 <CrowKiller>    mov [ESP-4],EAX
21:50:41 <CrowKiller> %ENDMACRO
21:51:04 <CrowKiller> to get a "one stack forth" or something
21:51:18 * futhin always has the urge to tweak the topic.. grrr!
21:51:41 <CrowKiller> i really believe in those two systems ;p
21:52:34 <CrowKiller> im trying to make a less than 500 bytes aha editor
21:52:53 <CrowKiller> to fit in a bootsector of a disquette
21:52:55 <futhin> hm, i'm a little rusty on asm..  the ESP is the stack pointer thingie that points to the next line of code to be executed right?
21:53:16 <CrowKiller> EIP is the instruction pointer
21:53:21 <futhin> why ESP minus 4 ?
21:53:41 <CrowKiller> in this macro: [ESP-4] is the Top of data stack, EAX, the working register and ESP the Stacvk pointer
21:53:44 <CrowKiller> a 3 register forth
21:53:55 <CrowKiller> that can be spawned
21:53:59 <futhin> a less than 500 byte aha editor?  does that also include the forth?
21:54:15 <CrowKiller> no just the editor
21:54:23 <futhin> where's the forth?  12 bytes? :P
21:54:31 <CrowKiller> for the compiler it prompts you to insert the compiler disquette then do a warm reboot
21:54:32 <CrowKiller> ;o)
21:55:09 <futhin> tell me you can make a less than 500 byte forth :P
21:55:13 <CrowKiller> im working on scancode set 2 to ascii translation
21:55:24 <CrowKiller> the compiler will fit in less than 500 bytes
21:55:27 <CrowKiller> no problem
21:55:52 <CrowKiller> because my system block interrupts
21:56:05 <CrowKiller> i can't use the bios's keyboard input routines
21:56:28 <CrowKiller> maybe for the editor they could be made avaiable, it would spare me a lot of wasted space
21:57:36 <CrowKiller> if the editor use bios's services then i'm sure I could put the compiler in the same bootsector
21:58:26 <CrowKiller> the three register forth start with esp pointing at (stackarraylength-1) absolute address
21:59:04 <CrowKiller> thats why i need to disable interrupts, maybe in protected mode i could let them execute, but i didnt researched IDTs and all
21:59:32 <CrowKiller> anyway let say esp start at 12, wich is 16 minus one stack entry
21:59:37 <CrowKiller> and you do the call macro
22:00:11 <futhin> why is the top of stack minus one stack entry? :P
22:00:43 <CrowKiller> the TOS would go into thw W register, the function is called, it process W then do a ret, then the TOS is left back with the processed W value
22:00:57 <CrowKiller> just supposition
22:01:12 <CrowKiller> i dont know if i could make it start at the array bondary
22:01:24 <CrowKiller> anyway lot of stuff to test ;pp
22:03:24 <CrowKiller> im surely completely wrong into thinking this is actually a better way of doing things, but ill see by myself ;p
22:03:39 <futhin> ESP - 4
22:03:45 <futhin> what is the first 4 bytes ?
22:03:52 <futhin> used for
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22:04:47 <CrowKiller> 4 bytes = 32 bit wide addresses fed into the return stack
22:05:28 <CrowKiller> imagine a rectangle, 32 bit wide by 128 cell wide
22:05:33 <CrowKiller> at the bottom its zero
22:05:41 <CrowKiller> at the top its cell #127
22:06:05 <cleverdra> crow - are you a crow that kills or a killer of crows?
22:06:53 <CrowKiller> much like the second but dont worry, its just a handle ;p
22:07:04 <cleverdra> oh, phew.
22:07:08 <CrowKiller> at the top theres the little 128 number, let say esp points there
22:07:09 <futhin> cleverdra: i recommend the book to all..  it's about being a realist..  it's not really about being a misanthropist, if you want to be a nice guy and help out poor people and whatever, that's up to you, but you are being naturally selfish doing such things (with the book's philosophy) and being rationally selfish is about seeking happiness for number one, without infringing on other people's rights (because of the consequences)
22:07:19 <CrowKiller> you do a call
22:07:24 <CrowKiller> the data stack
22:07:29 <CrowKiller> xtending from 0 to 128
22:07:37 <futhin> if seeking happiness involves helping other people, that is perfectly fine with the philosophy..
22:07:43 <CrowKiller> is now extending from 0 to 124
22:08:09 <CrowKiller> and the return stack is made of the last 4 byte cell on top of the array
22:08:24 <cleverdra> futhin - yes, I understand =)  That was a joke, that you'd only think to write a book titled "Looking out for Number One" when you realize how little anyone else will look out for you.
22:08:26 <CrowKiller> so the data stack becomes smaller, the return stack grows
22:08:33 <cleverdra> until.
22:09:06 <cleverdra> crow - relatively shallow stacks.  Who are you explaining this to?
22:09:13 <futhin> to moi
22:09:31 <CrowKiller> yes to lui ;p
22:09:39 <cleverdra> What was the question?
22:10:04 <futhin> i don't find crowkiller talks in a very easy to understand way..  it would probably help if i read the same things he did..  about aha system and so on
22:10:49 * CrowKiller feel sorry about this and will try to improve
22:11:09 <CrowKiller> just draw it
22:11:38 <CrowKiller> follow what im writing and draw it, if youmre blind and reading this trough a blind keybaord sorry for you ;p
22:11:53 <futhin> heh, i'm not big on pictures
22:12:01 <futhin> i'm a primarily written word person
22:12:08 <futhin> i learn best through books
22:12:14 <futhin> read tons of them 
22:12:17 <CrowKiller> ok then ill summarize better textually
22:12:21 <futhin> no
22:12:24 <futhin> stop
22:12:32 <CrowKiller> briefly i promise
22:13:05 <futhin> just because i say you don't write in an easy to understand manner doesn't mean i can't stare at the words until comprehension comes :P
22:13:09 <futhin> dpnm
22:13:16 <futhin> don't worry about summarizing :P
22:13:23 <CrowKiller> a while back I was tempted to do a one stack forth, this how it might look like actually.
22:13:48 <futhin> 32 bit wide by 128 bit wide right?
22:13:54 <futhin> cell = bit in this case?
22:13:58 <futhin> cells of bits
22:13:59 <CrowKiller> out of thin air example
22:14:18 <CrowKiller> imagine an array of 128 DoubleWords
22:14:23 <futhin> er nevermind
22:14:50 <cleverdra> (But you're not describing a one-stack Forth, just a Forth where the two stacks grow into each other.)
22:15:01 <CrowKiller> i know ;p
22:15:08 <futhin> don't worry, i'm starting to get it, you have 256 bytes for the stack or something like that?
22:15:31 <CrowKiller> for the two stacks
22:15:48 <futhin> yes i see
22:15:56 <futhin> one stack
22:15:56 <CrowKiller> this can be 0:256 or 256:0 or 34:222 etc
22:16:07 <futhin> containing both return and data stack
22:16:09 <futhin> yeah
22:17:55 <futhin> so what are you doing?
22:18:01 <futhin> you are coding the aha editor first?
22:18:05 <futhin> and not the forth first?
22:18:30 <CrowKiller> im more inspired by the editor as of now and then the compiler
22:18:48 <CrowKiller> the editor is the heart of the language's functionality in the ahah system
22:19:05 <CrowKiller> it packs source, ready to be compiled by the compilere
22:19:28 <CrowKiller> while writing it, i experiment with syuff i find lying around
22:20:16 <CrowKiller> my bookmarks are full of different way of doing things Forth
22:20:49 <CrowKiller> every once and a while I search for new thing and get into the old, this is my "thought pool"
22:21:10 <CrowKiller> my mother is a librarian, but i dont read much books, i surf a lot though
22:22:21 <futhin> back in my prime around 13 i used to read close to 300 books a year
22:22:45 <futhin> these days i probably read between 70 and 100
22:23:16 <CrowKiller> aouch ;p no wonder you like a more textual approach ;p
22:23:18 <cleverdra> Do you make up for it with non-book reading?
22:24:22 <futhin> me?
22:24:33 * CrowKiller wonders if clerverdra is asking the question to him
22:24:35 <cleverdra> Yes, futhin.
22:25:00 <cleverdra> Actually, it's suitable for both of you, except that I think CrowKiller already answered in the positive.
22:25:24 <futhin> non-book reading as on the internet?  i'm afraid i tend to bookmark stuff rather than read them :P
22:25:31 <futhin> <-- 500+ bookmarks
22:25:37 * CrowKiller didnt saw this that way and was thinking about an answer actually lol
22:25:50 <cleverdra> <-- 0 bookmarks :-/ but a lot of URL-memorization.
22:26:07 <futhin> there's a limited amount of time these days, back when i was 13 i could get away spending whole days doing nothing but reading
22:26:26 <cleverdra> I used to read books constantly, and now I still read constantly, except that it's mostly material that I've transferred to my Palm Pilot.
22:26:33 <futhin> hence my reading is limited to two books a week if i'm lucky
22:26:55 <futhin> if i don't read books some weeks, then i'll read stuff on the internet
22:27:01 <cleverdra> futhin - nod.  No more blast-through-book-in-a-day days.
22:27:04 <futhin> i go through cycles of extremity
22:27:11 <futhin> when i read, i read hardcore
22:27:20 <futhin> it's all or nothing
22:27:53 <cleverdra> Would you find it difficult to read in the middle?  Like, a few pages in a few spare minutes?
22:27:58 <futhin> i still get lots of blast through a book in a day
22:28:19 <futhin> but sometimes i read a book over 3 days or so
22:28:35 <futhin> sometimes over a month if the middle gets slow and my momentum gets interrupted
22:29:44 <futhin> i have no problem reading a few pages in a few spare minutes
22:29:59 <futhin> it's just that i prefer to get books over with as soon as possible ;)
22:30:31 * cleverdra nods.
22:30:31 <futhin> i'm not really the type of person that only reads a book by reading a few pages before he/she goes to bed every night
22:30:54 <cleverdra> When I lose momentum, as you said, I just stop reading.  I'd rather start over later.
22:31:04 <cleverdra> I mean, stop reading whatever book it was.
22:31:30 <futhin> heh
22:31:35 <futhin> ouch :P
22:32:02 <futhin> not me, i'll generally continue from where i start
22:32:22 <futhin> i believe in finishing books, unless it is an absolutely horrid one
22:32:39 <futhin> then i'll throw it away from me
22:33:50 <cleverdra> I stop.  Like "Brave New World" -- I three it away from me when I got to the final conversation between the Savage and whatshisface.
22:34:23 <futhin> heh
22:34:41 <futhin> naw, a book has to be _absolutely_ horrid
22:34:45 <futhin> i have a very high tolerance
22:35:01 <futhin> and i always try to read at least a third of the way before judging the book too harshly
22:35:29 <futhin> i find that sometimes the begining will be rough but then the middle and ending can be fabulous, making up for the rough ride at the begining
22:39:54 * cleverdra nods.
22:40:04 <cleverdra> This was at the end of the book, so I didn't feel too bad.
22:42:28 <CrowKiller> gtg, goodnight all
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22:42:36 <kc5tja> NIght Crowkiller
22:42:38 <kc5tja> doh
22:42:46 <kc5tja> I have to go myself here, unfortunately.  Have work tomorrow.
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