00:00:00 --- log: started forth/02.06.23
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08:22:50 <rob_ert> Hi.
08:23:00 <ASau> Hello!
08:23:38 <ASau> ;) I want to suggest a new word
08:23:50 <ASau> ?: ( "xxx" -- )
08:24:02 <ASau> ?: <word>
08:24:15 <ASau> prints definition of a <word>
08:24:24 <rob_ert> see word
08:24:26 <rob_ert> Or?
08:24:52 <ASau> for use in conversation in SU.FORTH, comp.lang.forth etc. :)))
08:25:17 <ASau> "see" doesn't show a question
08:25:48 <ASau> "?:" is more emotional
08:25:56 <ASau> :)
08:26:28 <rob_ert> Heh.
08:26:45 <rob_ert> Implement that in your forth if you want :-)
08:36:44 <ASau> rob_ert: I have an interesting (for me) question
08:37:05 <ASau> How do people used to create forth-asms
08:37:29 <ASau> I tried to look at i-net for various examples
08:37:40 <ASau> but found too little...
08:38:04 <rob_ert> Uhm.
08:38:11 <rob_ert> tcn is writing one for IsForth.
08:38:14 <ASau> I saw A.Horsts post-fix asm.
08:38:35 <ASau> but for me it looks overloaded
08:38:39 <ASau> noisy.
08:39:09 <rob_ert> I was thinking about writing one myself.
08:39:20 <ASau> By now I've got an idea to use additional stacks
08:39:36 <ASau> (I'm going to get x86-asm)
08:40:05 <ASau> for operand type, openrand size and add-on for operand,
08:40:18 <rob_ert> Hum?
08:40:19 <ASau> that differ from memory address/immediate
08:40:21 <rob_ert> What do you mean?
08:40:54 <ASau> I think it looking as
08:41:05 <ASau> 1000 ) ax mov
08:41:17 <ASau> 1000 )# ax mov
08:41:40 <rob_ert> How are labels created?
08:41:51 <ASau> 1000 )# 13248 bx+) mov
08:41:56 <ASau> and like
08:42:18 <ASau> Labels are created as: LABEL xxx
08:42:35 <ASau> No terminators between cmds
08:42:54 <rob_ert> How is the word LABEL defined?
08:43:35 <ASau> : LABEL <BUILDS A-HERE , DOES> @ ;
08:44:04 <ASau> where A-HERE is Asm internal pointer (where cmds go)
08:44:11 <rob_ert> <BUILDS.. that's CREATE, right?
08:44:25 <ASau> Ah... right
08:45:01 <ASau> Of course there is a limitation for 1 pass.
08:45:07 <rob_ert> I should experiment a bit with these ideas.
08:45:11 <rob_ert> :)
08:45:29 <rob_ert> An assembler in Forth could get useful.
08:45:36 <ASau> but it is possible to do more passes with diferent definitions
08:45:52 <ASau> for "mov", "and", "xor" etc.
08:46:13 <rob_ert> How do you mean?
08:46:39 <ASau> As usual, 1st pass -- LABEL definitions,
08:46:49 <rob_ert> I see.
08:46:50 <ASau> all cmds reserve space
08:47:12 <ASau> 2nd -- cmds fill space w/op.codes
08:47:29 <rob_ert> I wrote an assembler a long time ago, then I just filled constant with zeroes the first pass.
08:47:54 <rob_ert> Like... JMP <not-defined-yet> would generate 0xe8 0x00 0x00 (if JMP is 0xe8.. don't remember),
08:47:56 <ASau> Well, I think it is useful
08:48:17 <ASau> but if I use x86
08:48:34 <ASau> there is too much op.codes for one instruction
08:49:12 <ASau> I think no difference when I fill reserved space
08:49:27 <ASau> I can partially fill it at 1st pass
08:49:35 <ASau> partially at 2nd
08:50:32 <ASau> Hmmm.
08:50:51 <ASau> I think it is really better to make postfix asm
08:51:28 <ASau> When I make it prefix, I run into too much different intr. classes
08:52:03 <ASau> there are less addressing modes than instr. classes
08:52:24 <rob_ert> Make a 16f84 assembler instead :P
08:53:14 <ASau> I don't know about 16f84, I see no reason to do this
08:53:28 <rob_ert> It's much more simple ;)
08:53:42 <ASau> Or if is it so wanted for anybody?
08:53:45 <rob_ert> Don't have to worry about complex addressing and such.
08:53:56 <rob_ert> ?
08:54:40 <n_> mmmm, 16f84 assembler
08:54:45 <ASau> I'm not afraid of addr.modes.
08:55:09 <rob_ert> I'm afraid of everything.
08:55:16 <ASau> I simply state that for x86 there're more various instructions
08:55:23 <ASau> than addr.modes.
08:56:28 <ASau> ;) If you're not paranoic...
08:56:52 <ASau> It doesn't mean you're not hunted. :)))
08:58:39 <ASau> ...hunt
08:58:39 <ASau> (I've forgotten how it is in English :(
08:58:39 <rob_ert> Hehe.
08:58:39 <rob_ert> Where are you from`
08:58:39 <rob_ert> ?
09:00:11 <ASau> I'm from Russia, where bears walks at streets the whole year through...
09:00:34 <rob_ert> Oh.. I'm from Sweden, where ice bears walk on the streets.
09:00:47 <rob_ert> Privet :)
09:01:03 <ASau> Ah! Zdrawstwuj!
09:01:23 <rob_ert> :)
09:01:27 <ASau> Tam u was nemnogo teplee...
09:01:49 <rob_ert> I don't speak russian!
09:01:51 <ASau> Golfstream do his job well.
09:01:51 <rob_ert> What did you say?
09:02:39 <ASau> The temperature is a little higher in Sweden.
09:03:03 <ASau> And the climate is milder than ours.
09:04:46 <rob_ert> We don't have any desert, and we don't have -70C in winter :P
09:04:54 <rob_ert> Best of all - no Chechnya.
09:05:17 <ASau> Chechnya is far to south...
09:05:47 <rob_ert> But still.. :)
09:05:50 <rob_ert> Where do you live?
09:06:10 <ASau> I live in Saratov.
09:06:14 <n_> rob_ert: where do YOU live?
09:06:20 <n_> ;)
09:07:33 <rob_ert> Near Stockholm.
09:07:42 <rob_ert> Never heard of Saratov :)
09:07:53 <n_> mmm, stockholm
09:08:00 <n_> do you travel to stockholm often?
09:08:08 <ASau> Never mind.
09:08:24 <ASau> But I know about Stockholm
09:08:33 <ASau> :P
09:09:06 <rob_ert> BAH.
09:09:07 <rob_ert> :P
09:09:12 <rob_ert> n_: Sometimes.
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09:49:19 <ASau> Well. I've not got an answer.
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09:51:41 <KOHTPA> Just how #($*%^(@#$ is the net today!
09:52:11 --- nick: KOHTPA -> ASau
09:54:07 <ASau> Hey! Is there anyone who see me?
09:55:51 <ASau> Hey! Is there anyone who see me???
09:56:30 <rob_ert> Yeah :)
09:56:50 <ASau> Wachhh! I'm alive!!!
09:57:30 <ASau> Returning to asm...
09:57:56 <ASau> How many do you know about?
09:58:02 <ASau> I mean forth-asms.
09:58:20 <rob_ert> None, heh. :)
09:58:27 <rob_ert> I'm kind of a newbie to forth.
09:58:52 <ASau> I saw asm sources of Fig-Forth (for 6502),
09:59:03 <ASau> and Horst's
09:59:50 <ASau> I disliked latter.
10:00:51 <ASau> His "MOV, W| AX, ..." is terrible.
10:01:27 <ASau> I haven't understood his idea, why this way is good.
10:01:29 <rob_ert> I was playing with my C128 today :)
10:01:36 <rob_ert> Couldn't find C64forth though :(
10:01:43 <ASau> What is C128?
10:01:57 <ASau> Ahhh C64!
10:01:58 <rob_ert> Commodore 128D... Successor of C64 :)
10:02:12 <ASau> Let me see...
10:04:14 <ASau> Andreas Jung, http://home.arcor-online.de/agjung/
10:04:30 <ASau> He has Fig-Forth for C64.
10:05:38 <ASau> "I have all moves written down..." :)
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10:06:49 <rob_ert> Welcome back.
10:08:12 <ASau> Tscheort! What happens with the net today?!
10:08:34 <rob_ert> Well... maybe the russian infrastructure just fell apart :)
10:08:51 <ASau> I don't think so...
10:09:09 <rob_ert> Niether do I :)
10:09:20 <ASau> Possible reason: somebody sitting somewhere near me,
10:09:36 <ASau> and overloading net.
10:09:41 <rob_ert> :/
10:10:30 <ASau> I've not heard, what CPU does your C128 use?
10:10:36 <n_> 68040
10:11:07 <rob_ert> Doesn't it use 6510 for C64 mode, and z80 for CP/M mode?
10:11:25 <rob_ert> Check http://ostling.no-ip.com/ for more detailed information about my computers.
10:12:28 <n_> wow... fujitsu ergopro...
10:12:35 <ASau> ftp://ftp.taygeta.com/pub/Forth/Compilers/native/misc/commodore64 (?)
10:12:46 <rob_ert> n_: :)
10:13:42 <ASau> ftp://ftp.taygeta.com/pub/Forth/Compilers/native/cpm (?) for Z80
10:13:55 <n_> amiga 500 is a classic
10:13:57 <n_> from what i've heard....
10:14:04 <rob_ert> I can't transfer files to the C128D, ASau :/
10:14:08 <rob_ert> n_: :) Yeah.
10:14:22 <ASau> mag.tape?
10:14:35 <rob_ert> Nope, the C128D has a built-in floppy.
10:14:49 <ASau> RS-232C?
10:15:00 <ASau> Null-modem?
10:15:49 <rob_ert> I don't think I saw any RS232 on it...
10:16:11 <ASau> I think there is a way to get it working with mag.tape.
10:16:32 <rob_ert> I don't have any tape station.
10:17:02 <ASau> I don't think Commodore didn't look at Sir Clive (Sinclair)
10:17:12 <rob_ert> n_: :)
10:17:18 <rob_ert> n_: You little troll :)
10:17:35 <rob_ert> ASau: Never used any sinclair.
10:17:49 <ASau> Than you can bootstrap your own Forth.
10:17:50 <rob_ert> Didn't the ZX-80 come like '80?
10:18:12 <rob_ert> What way?
10:18:33 <ASau> Bootstrapping.
10:18:50 <ASau> Write a small core. Like a PostForth is.
10:19:12 <ASau> Then write in this core more high level things.
10:19:32 <rob_ert> I mean, what medium is it loaded from?
10:19:50 <ASau> Can you write to your floppy on C128
10:19:57 <ASau> Can you write to your floppy on C128?
10:20:08 <rob_ert> Yes, of course. But I meant on the Sinclair computers.
10:20:13 <rob_ert> I though you were talking about those.
10:20:31 <ASau> I misunderstood.
10:20:45 <ASau> I'm talking about your C128.
10:21:11 <ASau> If you can type in program and save it to floppy,
10:21:39 <ASau> then you can bootstrap your own Forth on C128.
10:22:35 <ASau> For this purpose I'd recommended use a minimal core as it is done in PostForth.
10:23:08 <ASau> Then write in this core and save systems you have come to.
10:23:38 <ASau> Or you can use Fig-Forth sources.
10:23:55 <rob_ert> I don't really feel like learning 6502 asm now :)
10:24:00 <ASau> They are simple, and mostly written in Forth.
10:24:52 <ASau> I don't think 6502's asm is harder than Z80's
10:25:56 <ASau> On Z80 I wrote at first on a subset, that was presented in UA880, aka 8080.
10:26:59 <ASau> Even I wrote in machine code, because of the lack of asm translator.
10:27:18 <ASau> In decimal :)
10:28:11 <ASau> Smth like: POKE 40000, 123, 43, 123 ,234 ,5 ,234, 3, 2
10:28:26 <ASau> from built in BASIC
10:35:07 <rob_ert> Yuck.
10:35:25 <rob_ert> What about the machine code monitor?
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11:16:10 <Speuler> g'day
11:17:34 <mur> d'gay
11:17:34 <mur> ah
11:17:35 <mur> ;)
11:17:39 <mur> evening
11:18:00 <Speuler> ah
11:18:05 <Speuler> hi jukka
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13:36:52 <I440r> argh wheres futhin ?
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16:25:13 <rob_ert> :)
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17:53:21 <n_> hey kc5
17:53:33 <n_> something big's going down in #lilo ;)
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18:02:52 <TheBlueWizard> hiya all
18:06:20 <rob_ert> Hi :)
18:07:22 <TheBlueWizard> hiya rob_ert
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18:45:48 <TheBlueWizard> bye
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23:07:16 <Serg_penguin> hi
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23:27:46 <onetom> mornin
23:27:55 <davidw> hi
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