00:00:00 --- log: started forth/02.06.16 01:02:34 My other system doesn't have a /dev/ppp file. 01:02:34 I suspect that's what causing pppd to fail. 01:02:34 Any ideas about how to create one? 01:02:41 Pleeease? :) 01:02:53 hm 01:03:15 shouldn't need a /dev/ppp file 01:04:23 Hrm. 01:04:25 So.. 01:04:30 What can be wrong? 01:04:32 probably just needs to be pointed to /dev/modem or whatever 01:04:42 make sure /dev/modem is pointed to the right port etc etc 01:04:49 i don't remember a /dev/ppp file 01:04:51 so i dunno 01:04:55 i don't think i needed one 01:04:59 or that one existed 01:05:02 pppd /dev/ttyS1 38400 -pc noauth proxyarp persist passive lock local 192.168.0.11:192.168.0.13 01:05:11 That's how I start it on this computer. 01:05:33 wow, lots of fancy stuff 01:06:05 why not just keep it simple like: pppd /dev/ttyS1 38400 -pc noauth local ... 01:06:14 is -pc right or should it be -p -c ? 01:08:47 That thing works on this computer. 01:09:01 what's the diff between the computers 01:09:03 And I'm trying to set this up on a computer that's supposed to be identical, heh. 01:09:15 both have same distro, same version, etc? 01:09:20 Well, this has X and Gnome, but there shouldn't be much difference. 01:09:24 Yes. 01:09:30 Kernel 2.4.18 with PPP support. 01:09:38 why don't you ask on #debian or something 01:09:42 how to make a dev file 01:10:06 MAKEDEV ppp didn't work :/ 01:10:09 But I will. 01:10:11 Thanks anwyay. 01:23:58 --- join: davidw (~davidw@adsl-ull-249-108.42-151.net24.it) joined #forth 01:26:04 Hi davidw :) 01:49:04 hi 01:54:17 Argh. 01:54:52 ? :( 01:55:18 * Soap` spent most of today with a debugger trying to break the password check on a compaq bios program. 01:55:30 Then I spent five minutes taking the CMOS battery out and all is well :/ 01:55:35 Hehe. 01:55:58 ahaahh 01:58:37 --- quit: futhin ("sleep") 02:29:43 --- join: Fare (fare@samaris.tunes.org) joined #forth 02:42:17 Hi Fare. 02:44:08 gakuk 03:16:26 --- join: mur (ammu@baana-62-165-188-151.phnet.fi) joined #forth 04:29:15 --- quit: davidw (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 05:21:48 --- quit: rob_ert ("Nothing is real. I think.") 05:22:10 --- join: rob_ert (~robert@h237n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #forth 05:30:09 --- quit: mur (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 06:06:34 --- quit: rob_ert (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 06:06:34 --- quit: dsmith (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 06:06:34 --- quit: Soap` (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 06:06:34 --- quit: goshawk` (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 06:06:34 --- quit: joa (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 06:06:34 --- quit: ChanServ (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 06:06:34 --- quit: Fare (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 06:06:34 --- quit: Fractal (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 06:06:46 --- join: ChanServ (ChanServ@services.) joined #forth 06:06:46 --- join: rob_ert (~robert@h237n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #forth 06:06:46 --- join: Fare (fare@samaris.tunes.org) joined #forth 06:06:46 --- join: dsmith (dsmith@oh-strongsvillecadent1-1aa-222.clvhoh.adelphia.net) joined #forth 06:06:46 --- join: Soap` (~flop@202-0-42-22.cable.paradise.net.nz) joined #forth 06:06:46 --- join: joa (~james@226-119-237-24.anc-dial.gci.net) joined #forth 06:06:46 --- join: goshawk` (goshawk@panix1.panix.com) joined #forth 06:06:46 --- join: Fractal (iishsadk@h24-77-171-228.ok.shawcable.net) joined #forth 06:06:46 --- mode: carter.openprojects.net set +o ChanServ 06:28:38 --- nick: Soap` -> SoapZZZz 06:35:45 --- join: mur (ammu@baana-62-165-188-151.phnet.fi) joined #forth 07:15:02 --- quit: mur ("MURR! end of file reached. continuing filling logs some other time.") 07:37:34 --- quit: dsmith (Remote closed the connection) 08:15:51 --- join: sif (~siforth@ip68-9-58-81.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 08:15:51 Type sif: (or /msg sif to play in private) 08:25:56 --- join: davidw (~davidw@adsl-ull-249-108.42-151.net24.it) joined #forth 09:00:58 --- join: futhin (~thin@h24-64-175-61.cg.shawcable.net) joined #forth 09:02:17 --- join: michaelw (michaelw@pandora.debian.org) joined #forth 09:02:25 hey futhin :) 09:02:29 Hi. 09:02:41 hi michaelw 09:02:52 what's up? 09:02:53 i apologize about the conversation i was having with crowkiller yesterday 09:03:06 <-- has the tendency to be stupid and rude every now and then 09:03:06 futhin: haha, np 09:03:16 so you are interested in forth or are already a forth coder? 09:03:39 i know a bit, not very much though 09:04:07 did you discover forth recently? 09:04:36 no, not really... been quite a while 09:04:45 postscript is very similar 09:05:11 yeah, i learned some postscript too 09:05:29 i think a postscript-like thing should be created in forth 09:05:37 for drawing 2d graphics anyways 09:05:37 futhin: i was fiddling around with openfirmware. that's why i was asking 09:06:05 for 3d i'll have to design the api i guess instead of borrowing it from some place 09:06:17 ah 09:06:23 there's an #openbios channel 09:07:03 what's the difference between openfirmware and the openbios ? i can't tell heh 09:07:46 openbios is a free implementation of the ieee1275 standard, iirc 09:08:03 early stage, that is 09:09:09 hmm 09:09:15 well they are making progress i think 09:09:32 they have the forth coded, and it passes the hayes test (ans standard thingie) 09:09:32 openboot is the sparc implementation 09:09:40 yeah, seen it 09:10:09 (i'm watching openbios development a bit) 09:10:19 nice to see the openbios people went the forth way, after all. 09:10:38 well, ieee1275 dictates it :) 09:10:43 did they begin a new forth from scratch, or did they base their work on something existing. 09:10:59 well, at a time, they hesitated whether to go the ieee1275 way 09:11:01 it's worthwile effort given the brokenness of the x86 BIOSen :) 09:11:02 from scratch, coded it in c mostly 09:11:15 they suck 09:11:23 heh :) 09:11:36 they should have written it in FORTH. 09:11:40 yeah i know 09:11:43 i was telling them that 09:11:56 or at worse, in assembly 09:12:06 what are the reasons that they should code it in forth? 09:12:11 i don't think i gave them enough 09:12:29 well 09:12:37 futhin: why do they think forth made it to openboot, to begin with? 09:12:52 they would need assemblers for all the different archictectures for openbios 09:12:53 why do they think Sun stopped developing its rom in C? 09:13:06 sure, and so do they with C, too 09:13:20 C already has the assemblers made 09:13:32 but forth, like C, doesn't require infinitely much assembler. 09:13:52 heck, eforth is a few hundred lines of assembly 09:13:55 and the rest in forth. 09:14:00 it's very sexy to have a small core and build the rest of the language upon it 09:14:17 that's less assembly than in the average boot-loading phase of a C runtime. 09:14:46 (and I know what I'm saying -- I've just been hacking such a boot loader) 09:14:56 in other words, they SUCK 09:14:56 in forth? :) 09:15:02 fareL what for? :) 09:15:07 no, it was already half-working in C 09:15:23 I hesitated to graft a forth in it, but that proved not necessary after all 09:15:48 iirc, the freebsd guys are thinking of integrating forth in their boot loader 09:15:51 though I intend to do it anyway, as soon as I have my LISP->forth cross compiler 09:15:56 michaelw: they use ficl 09:16:09 which is a c-based forth 09:16:23 * Fare wants a lisp-based forth running on a forth-based lisp 09:16:25 damn it's hot 09:16:27 I couldn't get ficl to compile in Minix :/ 09:16:34 heheh 09:16:36 minix??? 09:16:50 i wouldn't expect it to compile in minix 09:16:52 Yes, Minix. 09:17:21 Hehe. 09:17:34 ficl's relatively minamalistic 09:17:38 I got it working with ecos..... 09:17:53 davidw: in C ? 09:18:09 if you are using a c-based forth and you code an assembler in it and a forth on it and then output the new forth implementation, is it pure? 09:18:26 futhin: that's kind of an interesting idea 09:19:03 yeah.. i440r wouldn't consider such a thing, he felt it must be coded from asm the whole way in order to be pure 09:19:03 heh 09:19:54 futhin: not pure, but acceptable 09:20:31 the interesting thing might be attempting to cross-compile/dissassemble with it 09:20:37 so you could port to other archs 09:20:39 not pure? why not? no C code should appear in the new forth implementation.. 09:20:46 Fare: why not? it's normal bootstrapping 09:21:00 nobody would know that the forth was coded from a C-based forth 09:22:07 holy shit, it *IS* hot 09:22:25 heh, my room is in the basement 09:22:42 futhin: "pure" would be to not need the C after the first time 09:22:48 it's not real if it's not in fahrenheit..sigh:-/ 09:23:08 the C could be used to easily port it to new arch's 09:23:39 fare: yeah.. should be doable. take a c-based forth like gforth. code an assembler in gforth and then code a forth using the assembler and then output the whole thing and viola, it has no traces of C in it 09:25:01 yup 09:25:08 except that I want to do it in LISP 09:25:30 http://www.wunderground.com/global/Region/EU/Temperature.html 09:25:34 yowzers 09:25:42 Fare: that's even cooler than C 09:27:02 lisp and forth probably could complement one another better than either one with C 09:27:49 davidw: wrong 09:27:52 C sucks 09:28:02 what would C be used for, if you have lisp and forth? 09:28:13 forth for low-level stuff, lisp for high-level stuff 09:28:17 Fare: isn't that what I wrote? 09:28:31 oh, sorry 09:28:35 read it wrong 09:28:51 the problem with C is that it's "needed" for legacy compatibility 09:29:20 yeah 09:29:24 very annoying 09:29:42 who cares - make a niche system that blows everything else away 09:29:45 that's the way to go, IMO 09:29:53 something that does one thing very, very well 09:30:18 otherwise people will just say "oh, that's neat, but can I run excel on it?" 09:30:36 it's father's day, right? 09:31:01 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@ip68-9-58-81.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 09:31:15 today? 09:31:21 hm, maybe i should email him 09:48:52 --- join: tathi (~josh@ip68-9-68-213.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 10:04:21 don't you email my dad, you silly you! 10:12:37 heh 10:18:23 --- join: oxygene (~oxygene@linux-future.de) joined #forth 10:18:27 hey 10:18:35 it's old conversation 10:18:37 it's 11:18 now 10:18:55 some of them are still in here... 10:20:30 ok guys, some reasons, why OpenBIOS uses C _now_: a) it's portable (unlike assembler) b) it's used with a lot of hacks to handle it more forthish (in fact only DOCOL & friends are done in C) c) eventually that base will change - but it gets us somewhere! 10:20:56 who said code it in asm? :) 10:21:00 we said code it in forth 10:21:31 well.. how do you want to bootstrap forth on a forth-unaware cpu? 10:21:53 you use some forth as a target compiler 10:21:55 you need to get some assembler out of it eventually - and gcc gives us the best possibilites for it for now... 10:22:14 COOL! writing forth-compilers, fun - that's the real reason of OpenBIOS 10:22:14 ;) 10:22:18 lets say we have a forth we are developing openbios from. let's call it devforth 10:22:18 no 10:22:21 the forth already exists 10:22:25 you just use something like gforth 10:22:29 you code a forth inside gforth 10:22:32 you code an assembler 10:22:34 and the rest of the forth 10:22:43 we don't want to code 4 assemblers now... 10:22:50 doesn't matter what OpenBIOS is written _in_ 10:23:15 eh? i'm not saying code assemblers 10:23:25 gforth provides a bunch of assemblers for different architectures 10:23:25 it's the fact that they're saying they want a C to FCode translator that worries me 10:23:35 futhin: ever looked at the code? it's really only DOCOL, NEXT &c coded in C and the rest written in some "meta forth" which translates to a dictionary-representation 10:24:13 tathi: that forth-backend for gcc is needed for adoption - guess it or not, there are people how know how to write drivers who don't like to write in forth... 10:27:28 oxygene: yeah, I'm aware of that... 10:28:18 and we found a real capable gcc-guru, who wants to write that thing, so it might even spit out quite usable code... 10:28:27 as I'm reading more about the project, it sounds more like the developers do have their heads screwed on straight :) 10:28:57 hmm, cool 10:29:32 how do you come to that conclusion? 10:30:24 I mean, I first looked at the project, saw the project statement 10:31:03 first thing it says is "...not only the implementation of the standard itself but also the _required_ toolkit consisting of a C to FCode compiler..." (my emphasis) 10:31:39 and sort of jumped to conclusions 10:32:24 a forth backend in GCC ? 10:32:33 now, *that* might be interesting... 10:32:58 do you mean C->FCode, or Forth->asm ? 10:33:06 (or both?) 10:33:16 Fare: there already is one - but that's only used internally and thus not public in source... 10:33:20 maybe lcc might be more suitable to get FCode 10:33:32 Fare: (c,c++,objc,fortran)->forth 10:33:46 the lcc model is a stack machine 10:33:51 but I'm all for every platform having implementations of OpenFirmaware, and preferably not proprietary ones 10:39:48 an idea struck me just now 10:40:06 what about fundraising for chuck moore & his forthchip development.. 10:40:19 get money from every person with an interest in forth 10:40:24 in the world... 10:40:34 with what goal? 10:40:54 yeah, that's what i'm still trying to figure out lol 10:41:02 a forthchip goal 10:41:09 maybe to produce a forthchip for everyone 10:41:22 maybe it won't be a fundraising 10:41:33 it'll just be all the people who want a forth chip or two, pool their money 10:41:38 when there's enough money, produce a batch 10:42:36 how would "everyone" use that forthchip? 10:43:17 I can have a PDA with a StrongARM (very FORTH-friendly processor) for a few hundred bucks. 10:43:18 their problem ;) 10:44:02 hm, a forthchip is probably about 10 bucks or so ? if the batch was big enough anyways 10:45:03 "everyone" wants a complete computer, not a forth chip 10:45:33 what use is a 10 buck forth chip, if the eval board is $250 and costs as much as a PDA that has more power, more memory, more usability, etc. 10:46:15 well i had the fundraising idea, now i need to come up with a reason or goal ;) 10:46:27 <-- knows the truth of how ideas work 10:49:02 it was 36 degrees out according to the thermometer down the road... 10:49:27 that's pi/5 radians 10:49:28 Fare: so what is your goal?:-) 10:49:42 davidw: take over the world! muhahahahahahaha! 10:49:56 funny, me too 10:50:03 actually, I don't care about the taking over part 10:50:05 davidw: http://tunes.org 10:50:06 I just want to be emperor 10:50:13 boring 10:50:30 (or #tunes) 10:50:32 futhin: one word: 'concubines' 10:50:34 taking over the world should be done with a higher objective 10:50:47 such as promoting the survivability and strength of humanity 10:50:54 to colonize the galaxy, etc 10:51:27 the hell with that, I want 1) concubines and 2) more gold chains than Mr. T 10:52:28 you can do that now 10:52:38 you don't need to be emperor 10:54:03 just meet nice girls 10:54:20 and tell them "i love you but i share my love equally among other girls" 10:54:38 that's not quite how 'concubines' are... 10:54:50 more slavish? 10:55:09 yeah 10:55:14 I mean, I'll be the emperor and all 10:55:25 it wouldn't be fitting to be all namby-pamby 10:55:49 well you be namby-pamby at the begining 10:55:49 "emperor darling, you said you would wash the dishes an hour ago, and they are still sitting here!" 10:55:58 I don't see it 10:55:59 then you do indoctrination 10:56:05 to make her a sex slave 10:56:23 do you have a cat? 10:56:39 davidw: there might be shorter paths to concubines than just taking over the world 10:57:26 futhin: make a cat your sex slave? You pervert! 10:57:42 or you mean, the cat made you her sex slave? 10:58:22 lol 10:58:44 no, you can learn about indoctrination from your cat 10:59:03 there's a natural indoctrination that occurs 11:10:56 --- join: I440r (~mark4@1Cust248.tnt1.bloomington.in.da.uu.net) joined #forth 11:11:59 hey hey i440r 11:13:10 hi not realy here 11:13:16 only here long enought to check mail 11:13:33 working on gun store today, alot still to set up 11:13:49 also working on that TUI, got the windowing code mostly coded 11:14:11 a gun store? 11:14:19 do you have a back room full of cool illegal stuff? 11:14:56 i440r: sweet! :D 11:15:00 (the tui) 11:15:02 "dadburn gummit done try 'n take away mah rights to own a rocket-propelled grenade launcher" 11:17:56 you mean a nuclear rocket propelled greneate launcher? 11:18:30 I440r: or hand-propelled nuclear grenade? 11:18:50 (oops, the nuke exploded a few yards away) 11:20:14 it's always a bitch when that happened 11:20:16 happens 11:20:38 fare some idiots accadently throw the PIN too :) 11:20:52 oh no! that's even deadlier! 11:21:07 * futhin forms "Mothers against pins!" 11:24:37 * davidw forms Pins against Mothers 11:26:49 well ill bbl, gotta log out now 11:26:53 --- quit: I440r ("Reality Strikes Again") 11:29:23 --- join: rob_ert_ (~robert@h237n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #forth 11:29:23 --- quit: rob_ert (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:38:22 pins against mothers? that's pretty perverted 11:41:58 --- nick: rob_ert_ -> rob_ert 11:44:15 --- join: mur` (ammu@baana-62-165-189-214.phnet.fi) joined #forth 11:51:37 the incredible machine! 11:52:49 The incredible rob_ert is back!' 11:53:25 your tab does not work unless you first press m and then tab 11:53:33 then it gives you mur` to there 11:53:35 --- nick: mur` -> mur 11:55:15 the incredible machine is a puzzle game that i'm playing right now 11:55:46 und? 11:56:52 and i'm stuck on this stupid level heh 11:57:45 futhin: which one? 11:58:41 hard puzzle #22 "jolly jolly jumpin' jack" 11:59:08 heh 11:59:31 you have the game? 11:59:39 no 11:59:54 think I've played most of them though 12:00:13 it's particularly annoying because the last 10 puzzles were really easy heh 12:01:14 yeah, I remember not liking that level much :) 12:02:22 "use laser beams to light fuses or candles" 12:02:39 and then i got this cannon but the fuse ain't lighting 12:04:26 ok got it to light heh 12:10:06 so should I first port linux, or should I first develop a forth/lisp ? 12:10:48 port linux to what? 12:11:46 some arm subnotebook I have 12:18:22 --- join: dsmith (dsmith@oh-strongsvillecadent1-1aa-222.clvhoh.adelphia.net) joined #forth 12:38:15 --- nick: Fare -> Atlas 13:23:07 ahh :) I have my line functions working in gforth :) yay graphics 13:23:47 now for some anaglyph :) 14:58:02 --- nick: SoapZZZz -> Soap` 15:10:58 grrrr there's no way to make a line algorithm (besides anti-aliasing) that's symetrical 15:11:29 without making it thicker in places 15:12:43 oh well, guess I can't be a perfectionist with this quite 15:21:17 Herkamire: what's wrong with AA ? 15:21:51 what's aa? 15:22:09 oh... 15:22:09 right 15:22:20 too complex for the moment 15:23:18 and in gforth it might be slow (especially to bled the pixels with what's behind) 15:24:11 I want movement in realtime, so speed is important 15:25:23 I'll go native later, when tathi get's his forth working 15:25:27 Herkamire: bresenham not good enough? 15:26:58 I don't remember the name of the algorithm I'm using. it's the one where it's all integers, and (if you're going more horizontally) you add the height to a temp var and move the line vertically when that get's bigger that the width 15:27:59 the problem is (reguardless of algorithm) that sometimes the line goes Exactly between two pixels. if I color them both, then the line has a bulge, and if I pick one, then it's asymetrical 15:28:27 mostly not noticable, but dissapointing none the less 15:29:09 isn't there supposed to be a way to draw at a sub-pixel level by tweaking the r g or b values? 15:29:29 huh? 15:29:36 you mean anti-aliasing? 15:29:47 is that how that works? 15:29:47 yeah, that's AA 15:29:52 oh, woops 15:29:56 That's only for LCD screens, david? 15:32:33 I suppose AA is the only way to make it really symetrical, because if you don't then the slanty lines look a little thinner than straight ones 15:45:37 --- join: davidw_ (~davidw@adsl-32-74.38-151.net24.it) joined #forth 15:50:18 hi, dave 16:00:17 --- quit: rob_ert ("leaving") 16:03:44 --- quit: davidw (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 16:08:00 --- quit: davidw_ (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 16:31:37 sif: : fibonacci 0 1 16 0 do over + dup . swap loop drop drop ; fibonacci 16:31:38 Herkamire: 1 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 16:37:22 sif: : fib 1 0 20 0 do over + dup . swap loop drop drop ; fib 16:37:23 Atlas: 1 2 3 5 8 13 21 34 55 89 144 233 377 610 987 1597 16:38:00 --- join: CrowKiller (Vapo_Rulez@cnq5-233.cablevision.qc.ca) joined #forth 16:38:04 darn! ! 16:38:18 hi everyone 16:38:22 that's long enough... 16:38:33 hello :) 16:39:21 if anyone cares, you can get my line functions from my local svn repository: http://herkamire.homeip.net/svn/ana/graphics.fs 16:42:02 the fibonacci sequence starts with 1 1 16:42:24 im trying to come up with simple forth like macros for the AVR core, but the atmel assembler doesnt support macros inside macros (duh) 16:42:52 what's AVR? 16:42:54 sorry but the url doesnt work 16:43:29 microcontroller core, in the like of the 8051 16:43:32 http://herkamire.homeip.net/svn/ana/graphics.fs 16:45:39 what error on the url? it works for me 16:46:12 the url is good but i cant connect sorry 16:47:38 OH right... 16:47:54 http://herkamire.homeip.net:3/svn/ana/graphics.fs 16:48:02 my *&%*&^% isp is blocking port 80 16:48:30 change the port of your server and put it in the url then ;p 16:48:41 beat you to it :) 16:49:08 lol didnt even noticed it 16:49:23 working perfectly now ;p 16:49:43 you can use port 5000 if you want something more noticeable :) 16:49:54 sorry about that 16:52:16 brb 16:52:17 --- quit: CrowKiller ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby") 17:01:24 --- nick: futhin -> fountainhead 17:05:44 --- join: CrowKiller (Vapo_Rulez@cnq5-233.cablevision.qc.ca) joined #forth 17:06:26 --- quit: mur ("MURR! end of file reached. continuing filling logs some other time.") 17:12:27 --- join: I440r (~mark4@1Cust92.tnt2.bloomington.in.da.uu.net) joined #forth 17:14:46 hi l440r 17:16:45 hi 17:19:25 sif: here 111 , 94 , 94 , 105 , 99 , 79 , 72 1 + , 88 , 69 , 64 , : a 20 0 do i dup 2 / 2 * = if dup i + @ i 2 * + emit then loop drop ; a 17:19:26 Herkamire: obfuscated 17:25:54 I think our mantra is bunk 17:26:03 we need a new mantra 17:26:27 Good code is Forth code ;p 17:26:50 ?the mantra is "Isforth - because Forth IS" 17:26:52 heh 17:26:58 or just the indian word meaning "Stack" 17:27:02 "If you want something done right... do it twice." 17:27:43 Forth is to computers what evolution is to life 17:28:24 it is? 17:28:37 dont know lol 17:28:45 pure and mindless brainstorming 17:28:46 ;p 17:29:08 you're almost as bad as futhin :P 17:29:20 lol 17:29:25 hmmm Forth is to computer as Zen is to religion 17:29:40 better :) 17:29:47 hey come on tathi lol 17:30:00 herkamire: thanks :) 17:30:26 how about "'tis better to code that to berieve" 17:32:26 * CrowKiller doesn't understand the sentence, expecially the word "berieve" 17:33:07 probably becaues I used it wrong 17:35:49 anyway, to me forth is the way a zen monk would program ;p 17:35:54 (and I spelled it wrong.... let's forget about this whole thing :)) 17:37:26 oh surely :) 17:37:35 I'm all for the zen analogy 17:38:02 not fluss, no bloat, just "the thing" 17:38:17 I think most written code is crap. and I would guess that most people in here agree with that. 17:39:39 specially C code 17:39:46 which there is more of than anything else 17:42:32 I remember last year in the "Introduction to Computer Science" class, we used to code into a vb-lookalike named toolbook, and i remeber optimizing almost 4 out of 5 code samples the teachers gave us lol 17:43:03 its was really hilarious, in fact the course was only about that, coding in Toolobook basic like language 17:43:42 I wanted to get binary masks, asm coding, but it was "far too advanced" to use the teacher's words 17:44:27 I think I could revolutionize the world by teaching forth in High Schools lol 17:45:24 seriously this stuff is the evolutionary step after the macro assembler 17:46:56 heh 17:47:23 most non-forth programmers would probably think you were insulting their language to say that 17:49:51 and some would be right 17:50:14 hmm, true :) 17:53:10 but then. for not using forth they deserve it :P 17:55:08 forth is the mother of all high level languages, why loose our time with C when we can do it in Assembly or Forth ;p 18:11:18 --- quit: dsmith ("later..") 18:17:36 --- quit: Atlas ("ERC v2.91 $Revision: 1.239 $ (IRC client for Emacs)") 18:22:55 --- quit: sif (Remote closed the connection) 18:23:13 sif down for cleaning 18:27:45 Y0: Why does sif-bot have such a lame quit message? 18:28:18 It should be like: "Get y0r 0wn l338 f0r+h b0t at www.blah.com/sdfjdf!!!!" 18:28:26