00:00:00 --- log: started forth/02.06.15 00:16:48 --- join: davidw (~davidw@adsl-ull-249-108.42-151.net24.it) joined #forth 00:32:49 --- join: kors (~kors@nbc-2.ukr.net) joined #forth 02:32:52 --- quit: kors (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 02:33:02 --- join: kors (~kors@nbc-2.ukr.net) joined #forth 02:40:41 --- quit: Fare (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 04:29:26 --- join: mur (ammu@baana-62-165-188-151.phnet.fi) joined #forth 04:29:26 --- quit: kors (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:40:47 --- join: kors (~kors@nbc-2.ukr.net) joined #forth 04:56:53 --- nick: Soap` -> SoapSleep 06:05:46 --- join: Jukka (ammu@baana-62-165-188-151.phnet.fi) joined #forth 06:05:46 --- quit: kors (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:05:48 --- join: davidw_ (~davidw@adsl-ull-249-108.42-151.net24.it) joined #forth 06:05:48 --- quit: davidw (Connection reset by peer) 06:05:58 --- quit: mur (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 06:06:13 --- nick: Jukka -> mur 06:56:59 --- join: kors (~kors@nbc-2.ukr.net) joined #forth 07:18:14 --- join: Fare (fare@samaris.tunes.org) joined #forth 07:18:16 --- quit: kors (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 07:42:58 --- join: sif (~siforth@ip68-9-58-81.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 07:42:58 Type sif: (or /msg sif to play in private) 08:06:45 --- join: futhin (thin@h24-64-175-61.cg.shawcable.net) joined #forth 08:09:10 hey 08:09:38 Hi 08:15:42 hey boyh 08:57:17 --- join: kors (~kors@nbc-2.ukr.net) joined #forth 09:02:39 * futhin is koding forth 09:06:58 howdy mur 09:07:08 got any coding projects going mur? 09:07:25 yay, database with php 09:07:41 *boring* 09:08:06 rob_ert code then 09:08:50 mur: There's a slight difference between "boring" and "being bored". 09:09:18 but you used ** there, in case you didn't noticed 09:09:29 that is reference for action 09:09:39 liek *runs like hell* or such 09:09:52 so hence it refers to rob_ert beign bored 09:11:02 no 09:11:05 you lie 09:11:11 *boring* just means *boring* 09:11:11 i dont 09:11:15 not an action 09:11:21 hm 09:11:21 er 09:11:22 no ** refers to action 09:11:22 nevermind 09:11:35 rob_ert: yeah, don't do * * around it unless it's an emotion 09:11:38 or action 09:12:06 mur: coding any forth? 09:12:11 nah :( 09:12:11 Bah. 09:12:49 * rob_ert . o O ( Jukka's project sounds boring... and he's strange in general... IRC is becoming more and more weird... must...shoot...family... ) 09:13:39 rob_ert you irc too much 09:14:25 --- mode: ChanServ set +o futhin 09:14:30 --- topic: set to 'Our mantra: Good code is written code | x86 Linux Forth coded in asm - http://isforth.clss.net | home of forth - http://www.ultratechnology.com | rob_ert you irc too much' by futhin 09:14:34 :P 09:14:51 rob_ert okay if you want to initiate another argue then, fine, why does it sound like boring? which parts of it? and what is it actually if you can claim it's boring evne not knowing what i am doing? 09:14:53 futhin :) 09:14:56 pfff 09:15:11 shush mur 09:15:21 mur: PHP must be boring. 09:15:25 at least type with proper grammar mur 09:15:27 Web languages in general are. 09:15:34 oh sorry i forgot, #assembler was the official argue channel 09:15:35 futhin: grammar police. 09:15:59 Let's play! You're the grammar police, I'm the thought police, and mur is a bear. 09:16:10 rob_ert: web languages aren't boring if you have any artistic & creativity aspects 09:16:11 i'm both polices 09:16:20 mur: no, i'm grammar police 09:16:23 yes and if you have someneeds to do 09:16:43 html is the only good web lang 09:16:54 let's talk written brittish english, no any spoken language conventions, ? 09:16:55 :) 09:17:06 brks 09:17:24 --- quit: futhin ("bored") 10:07:16 --- quit: rob_ert ("Nothing is real. I think.") 10:07:18 --- quit: kors (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 10:25:03 --- join: rob_ert (~robert@h237n2fls31o965.telia.com) joined #forth 11:09:55 --- join: XeF4 (wdixgp@12-245-116-85.client.attbi.com) joined #forth 11:11:32 --- quit: XeF4 (Client Quit) 11:17:29 --- join: kors (~kors@nbc-2.ukr.net) joined #forth 11:42:14 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@ip68-9-58-81.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 11:42:16 --- quit: kors (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 11:42:20 --- quit: Herkamire (Client Quit) 11:42:34 --- join: Herkamire (~jason@ip68-9-58-81.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 12:37:50 --- join: Speuler (~l@195.30.184.4) joined #forth 12:37:53 g'day 12:38:36 Good day. 12:51:31 ooOOoo people :) 12:52:22 does anybody know of an open source forth for linux (that'll work on PPC) that does graphics (I just wanna draw colored lines) 12:59:35 Hi Herk :) I don't know of any UNIX forth that does graphics :/ 13:03:51 ok, I'll continue hacking with /dev/fb :) 13:05:05 What is that? 13:05:22 the frame buffer :) 13:05:32 try: 13:05:40 echo "bla bla aoesnuht asoetnuh" > /dev/fb 13:05:49 Hmm... 13:05:52 it should put some garbage pixels in the upper left corner :) 13:05:56 * rob_ert boots a test computer. 13:06:11 I'm in 80x50 text mode. 13:06:18 Will it still work? :} 13:06:57 I think so 13:07:03 can't do any harm I think. 13:07:40 Hehe ;) 13:07:43 * rob_ert tries. 13:07:50 Does it require root access? 13:08:52 not on my box. I just tried it in the terminal and it works there too 13:09:07 does the device exist on your system? 13:09:30 maybe it was not created, or not set up. 13:10:39 I will check. 13:10:57 No such file :-( 13:14:17 Herkamire: i got framebuffer graphics in forth somewhere 13:14:36 Herkamire: also colored ascii graphics 13:14:44 (ANSI/VT100) 13:15:42 that is, drawing lines any direction, setting pixels and that kind of simple stuff 13:18:00 --- join: kors (~kors@nbc-2.ukr.net) joined #forth 13:23:31 --- join: michaelw (michaelw@pandora.debian.org) joined #forth 13:23:45 hi 13:24:04 Hi :) 13:24:22 anyone familiar with sparc openboot? 13:26:11 michaelw: is that open firmware? 13:26:17 yes 13:26:38 michaelw: I've got open firmware on my box 13:26:56 tathi does too (he's often in here) he knows more about it than I do. 13:27:19 i'm trying to create a new configuration variable, but i can't figure out how to set the "default value" 13:27:30 I've got an Apple computer, so some things may be different... 13:28:18 yes, on apply you can create new variable by using just "setenv foo bar" 13:28:27 --- join: tathi (~josh@ip68-9-68-213.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 13:28:40 that doesn't work on spark?? 13:28:56 not if the variable doesn't exist in the first place 13:29:08 Speuler: do you have a document that describes the ansi/vt100 escape codes for color? 13:30:38 man console_codes on linux 13:31:32 --- quit: tathi (Client Quit) 13:31:46 Herkamire: yes, again "somewhere" ... 13:32:11 colours are as i recall esc[3xm; 13:32:17 where x is 0...7 13:32:33 background is esc[4xm; 13:33:43 Herkamire: took ansi escape codes from "TechHelp", a dos program. 13:33:47 years ago 13:34:04 referenced the forth code since, when required :) 13:34:55 --- join: tathi (~josh@ip68-9-68-213.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 13:35:07 Speuler: thanks :) 13:38:07 who was asking about OpenFirmware stuff? 13:38:19 that was me :) 13:39:02 tathi: trying to create a configuration variable (a property in /options), but i can't find a way to set the "default value" 13:39:21 nodefault-bytes ( maxlen "new-name" -- ) Create custom configuration variable of size maxlen. (E: -- addr len) 13:39:28 I found that... 13:39:40 oh 13:39:44 --- quit: Speuler ("oh") 13:39:59 hmmm 13:40:08 hmm 13:43:31 so you need to create a new variable that gets set back to something when set-defaults gets called? 13:43:41 yep 13:44:02 nodefault-bytes looks promising 13:46:13 so why are you trying to do this? 13:46:25 (do I want to know?) :) 13:46:48 hehe, probably not :) 13:47:50 tathi: my Ultra1 doesn't power-off on shutdown (jumps back to OF instead), so i patched the (linux) kernel to issue the power-off 13:47:59 now i want to make it configurable 13:48:55 (wouldn't be a good idea if a colo'd machine unexpectedly powers-off, right?) :) 14:05:12 hmm... 14:05:58 well, I'm not coming up with anything useful 14:06:39 from what I can find, it sounds like set-defaults is supposed to pretty much reset everything to factory defaults 14:06:55 clears nvramrc and everything 14:07:16 hmm, yeah... 14:25:51 --- quit: kors (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 14:34:37 --- join: TheBlueWizard (TheBlueWiz@ip-216-25-202-235.vienna.va.fcc.net) joined #forth 14:34:42 hiya all 14:35:36 hey you 14:35:45 so TheBlueWizard i got db running and 14:35:51 i coudl start implementing finnish tutorial 14:35:57 been productive last 2 weeks 14:35:59 hiya mur...cool 14:36:03 i hwas first there in uiah 14:36:09 very demaning apply tests 14:36:11 uiah? 14:36:19 www.uiah.fi 14:36:31 it's one of the world very bets art and design universities 14:36:33 best 14:36:39 I see 14:36:47 i was better than at least 15% of applicants 14:36:55 85% 14:36:56 whops :P 14:37:07 6% get in 14:37:14 i suppose i'mbetter than 90% at least 14:37:21 but am i good enough 14:37:34 most at phase III were studying arts at some other school 14:37:40 Finland certainly is known for architecture stuff...and people who designed them...like Arno (IIR that name right) 14:37:44 i applied first time, only couple of us first time applying there 14:38:03 you mean Alvar Aalto? :) 14:38:41 hmm...not that one, though that name looks vaguely familar 14:38:58 maybe, it's one of the world most famous designers 14:39:05 * TheBlueWizard is no expert on architectural history hehe 14:39:07 there are so many finnish archs 14:39:16 me neither 14:39:25 uiah is about 3rd best in world 14:39:36 anyway i'll try the next year if i dont get in 14:39:37 hmm...interesting... 14:39:41 i think i shoudl get then in 14:40:02 I gather you want to become an architect, hm? 14:40:06 after uiah i was at lappland univeristy art faculty.. after phase II i was on first position :) 14:40:09 How do I compare 2 files in Linux? 14:40:11 no 14:40:24 graphical design is where i applied 14:40:35 architechts are not on field of industrial art 14:40:36 :P 14:40:43 rob_ert: diff 14:40:50 OK. thanks. 14:41:02 mur: I see...my mistake hehe 14:41:11 movie producing, filming, directing, setting and arts teaching are 14:41:16 though 14:41:20 and graphical design etc. 14:41:36 architects are i suppose at mathematical field :P 14:41:54 anyway i have problem with the finnish tutorial 14:42:04 i shoudl know in which order to get the information 14:43:10 Tech Support: "May I ask what operating system you are running today?" 14:43:10 Customer: "A computer." 14:43:12 :D 14:45:22 the typical approach I've seen is: (1) alphabet and pronunciation, (2) basic greeting, to give a flavor, (3) basic sentence construct, like "I eat", etc. of course somewhere early in the courses one will have to explain several "pecularities" of Finnish such as consonantal graduation (e.g. nt --> nn, kk --> k, etc.) 14:45:37 LOL 14:56:31 --- join: CrowKiller (Vapo_Rulez@cnq5-233.cablevision.qc.ca) joined #forth 14:56:31 in finnish saying greetings is not that important 14:56:31 finns may start conversation asking "where are you coming from?" 14:56:39 for example 14:56:40 and that is not anything rude even 14:57:00 but i'll create channel 14:57:18 /join #finnish 15:59:55 --- join: futhin (~thin@h24-64-175-61.cg.shawcable.net) joined #forth 16:00:20 hiya futhin 16:00:42 hey thebluewizard 16:00:48 doing any genetic engineering lately? 16:06:27 no....why? 16:09:10 cause i'm getting all agitated that i'm not doing any genetic engineering or focusing on it 16:09:13 computers are dead 16:09:18 genetic engineering is where the action is 16:09:44 imagine being able giving yourself glow in the dark skin, green hair, etc.. 16:09:53 s/giving/to give/ 16:10:02 ah...biotech is indeed booming...but it is education-intensive, unfortunately 16:10:03 genetic engineering sucks 16:10:08 its not engineering 16:10:14 dna hacking 16:10:20 its a total slaughter jouse of the thing we call life 16:10:24 its dna reversin 16:10:28 and dna my friend 16:10:35 is LIVING information 16:10:35 reverse engineering is a beautiful thing 16:10:39 that can only be read 16:10:44 when the system is alive 16:10:50 yada yada yada 16:11:00 who cares if that's true or not 16:11:00 thus when you think of it its monstrous 16:11:02 who cares if that's true or not 16:11:02 who cares if that's true or not 16:11:06 maybe it's true 16:11:06 its a sacrilege 16:11:09 lol 16:11:12 yada 16:11:16 that's not the point 16:11:22 don't get all religious on me or something 16:11:31 k 16:11:37 ill do a real world example 16:11:37 you should take philosophy 16:11:38 at school 16:11:39 imagine a program 16:11:41 university 16:11:55 made with bits tht can get 4 states instead of 2 16:12:09 0 1 2 3 instead of 0 1 16:12:11 whoaaaa 16:12:18 really excviting 16:12:41 we didnt see this kind of information storage before before 16:12:48 we didnt see this kind of information storage before 16:12:50 or 6 bits...it is possible to add 2 more bases to DNA...but why the Nature "decided" on only 4 bases...hmm...something of a mystery :) 16:12:52 let poke around it 16:13:12 to poke around it we need to map these bits 16:13:22 thebluewizard: the other two bits are for data protection 16:13:23 and after try to understand how it works 16:13:29 i think.. 16:13:46 those scientists try to make hex editors for dna 16:13:47 data protection?!? you are a riot! :) 16:13:52 and move bits around and see what it does 16:13:56 there's lots of data protection going on 16:14:03 they cant know what the code change will yeld 16:14:03 when it fails you can get cancer, etc 16:14:09 they HAVE to test it 16:14:16 cancer is cells 16:14:18 --- nick: davidw_ -> davidw 16:14:20 crowkiller: all problems are overcomeable 16:14:21 that do not breath air 16:14:24 those are anti-cells 16:14:53 as in antimatter? boy, you really are a total riot! :))) 16:14:58 yes, cancer are cells that replicate without heading the biochemical data around them, replicating out of control.. damage to the cell dna usually is the cause 16:15:31 --- mode: ChanServ set +o futhin 16:15:48 it's a tad annoying when the conversation gets this far off path 16:15:53 let's restart all over again 16:16:04 genetic engineering is fun and good for you ! 16:16:07 ;) 16:16:14 it get painful damage from the exterior, if its not loved and heal among her neigboorhood cells then she dies 16:16:20 or she feel for revenge 16:16:32 crowkiller: you have a problem with genetic engineering, dna hacking, etc??? 16:16:33 she feel excluded 16:16:44 thats exacty how it is 16:16:50 I think its not the way to do 16:16:53 its not respectful 16:16:59 to fuck up with a dna string 16:17:10 and see what conscious being will get trapped in that 16:17:14 life is game, not hell 16:17:24 genetic engineering is very bad IHMO 16:17:49 imagine the life of a geentically engineered baby human 16:18:07 we don't have to wait for changes to affect a baby 16:18:12 he would feel apart from other if he dont live in a particulary loving environement 16:18:14 we can modify ourselves in real-time 16:18:20 using retroviruses 16:18:22 it has been done 16:18:33 so save a girl that had faulty liver cells 16:18:36 real-time isnt real time 16:18:41 its the same with networks 16:18:49 genetic enginnering with retrovirus woirk this way 16:18:58 let say you have the CIH virus 16:19:01 into a hex vieiwer 16:19:02 NOW 16:19:06 your goal as a scientist 16:19:15 i'm just saying that "genetic engineered baby" is just bunk. in the future, everybody will modify themselves on the fly, at will 16:19:18 is to tranform this deadly virus 16:19:27 (you dont have a dissassembler) 16:19:31 there will be nanobots in the bloodstream reacting to your thoughts, etc 16:19:40 and enabling you to change your dna 16:19:48 into a helpful retro virus to make a very subtle change into the configuration of 1000s of computers 16:20:03 the only solution is to poke around 16:20:06 change things 16:20:09 and see what happens 16:20:12 into a "simulator" 16:20:19 but life dont have simulator 16:20:24 ITS the simulator 16:20:43 its the "testing" concept, you can't test it 16:20:49 im sure its mathematically provable 16:21:00 so you must make living monsters 16:21:06 and enslave them 16:21:07 i have no idea where you are coming from.. you are coming from nowhere talking about something totally different than i 16:21:10 into your battery of tests 16:21:23 and i don't see much logic in your talk 16:21:33 just proving my point that geentic engineering is a shame 16:21:35 stop saying so much, say less and make more sense 16:21:50 ok just picture yourself 16:22:11 in front of a hex viewer with the binary string of the program 16:22:27 who cares about a hex viewer.. 16:22:33 you are trying to bring in a false analogy 16:22:39 knowing nothing at all about genetic engineering etc 16:23:03 ok ill stop bragging 16:24:04 you can only brag about something that is true.. 16:24:11 got your definition mixed up i guess 16:24:21 maybe 16:28:17 --- part: michaelw left #forth 16:35:24 * tathi agrees with CrowKiller 16:40:41 genetic engineers are probably reverse engineer trying to reverse a forth dialect 16:41:04 tathi: what do you agree about? 16:41:25 that understanding the dna and modifying it is a bad thing ? 16:41:40 on a very strange hardware indeed when i think of it ;p 16:44:23 heh, your brains are fried.. trying to make computer analogies.. how sad :P 16:56:08 every thought is mechanisable, its almost a proven theorem, if not one already 16:57:07 futhin: yes 16:57:12 * TheBlueWizard . . . o O ( it is a proven theorem that I have a powerful urge to throttle CrowKiller :) 16:57:53 tbw: i blame it on his poor writing style rather than his concepts 16:58:43 crowkiller: hm, what do you think about computer generated intelligence (i avoid saying AI because AI has misleading connotations) 16:59:00 it need better hardware 16:59:25 better in a very different way 16:59:28 ah who cares about the hardware 16:59:29 no 16:59:33 bleh 16:59:33 nm 16:59:38 nm about the no i mean 16:59:45 than just putting 32 bits here and there and upgading the ghz count 16:59:53 its possible 17:00:05 i think it would be possible one day 17:00:29 yeah, my guess is that you need massive parallelism to get computers to do the stuff that the brain is good at... 17:08:52 --- quit: davidw (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 17:42:31 --- nick: CrowKiller -> CrowAway 17:54:46 --- quit: mur ("MURR! end of file reached. continuing filling logs some other time.") 18:06:15 brain, good at? what? 18:07:53 bbl, watching star gate! 18:08:12 kewl 18:11:14 fare: seems to me that some things that the human brain does really well (specifically vision) wouldn't require an individual very complex computer to do, but rather a _lot_ of little simple nodes. 18:11:53 just my gut reaction, I'm not sure it's even possible to get computers to do human languages, there's such a huge quantity of data involved 18:20:29 --- nick: SoapSleep -> Soap` 18:45:45 gotta go...bye 18:45:52 --- part: TheBlueWizard left #forth 18:54:49 --- quit: Fare (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 18:58:10 --- quit: tathi ("leaving") 19:51:58 --- quit: futhin (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 19:52:15 --- join: futhin (~thin@h24-64-175-61.cg.shawcable.net) joined #forth 19:52:15 --- mode: carter.openprojects.net set +o futhin 20:12:58 --- quit: Soap` (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 20:16:02 --- join: Soap` (~flop@202-0-42-22.cable.paradise.net.nz) joined #forth 20:20:05 --- quit: CrowAway ("Ishlibedish!") 20:30:02 --- join: dsmith (dsmith@oh-strongsvillecadent1-1aa-222.clvhoh.adelphia.net) joined #forth 20:34:00 hi dsmith 20:34:10 --- mode: futhin set -o futhin 20:57:20 hey hey 20:57:26 you code forht? 20:57:33 Used to. 20:57:40 ah 20:57:45 what forth implementation did you use 20:57:59 Anbout 5-6 years ago. 20:58:07 Let's see. 20:58:19 so interested in getting back into it or something? 20:58:24 Vesta (kind of like f83). 20:58:56 hm, haven't heard of it 20:59:09 The forth in thouse 68hc11's from new micros. And another one. 20:59:24 Dataloggers and conrollers mostly. 20:59:56 Yeah, I need to stay fresh. It's been a while. 21:00:22 just read www.ultratechnology.com and testosterone will be spraying from your forehead 21:00:39 (i.e. you might be inspired) ;) 21:00:44 heh, read that a few days ago. 21:00:55 all of it? 21:01:04 lies, it takes years to read all of ultratechnology :P 21:01:10 Well, not all. 21:01:23 I read the 3 10x parts. 21:01:38 ah 21:01:50 jeff fox wrote a good article too 21:01:55 before his aha article 21:03:41 I've played with things like pygmy and forthcmp. I ported zen to 68k. 21:04:11 hmm nice 21:04:12 But I've mainly been a C programmer for about 16-17 years. 21:04:32 But lately I've been learning Scheme and Python. 21:04:54 scheme is nice, but python is evil ;) 21:05:26 But I haven't done any programming in about 3 years. I a "consultant" now. Firewalls, networks, backups. Stuff. 21:05:45 Python has a nice syntax. 21:06:02 It's weak in some areas though. 21:06:25 lambda is too limitied (one expresion) 21:06:26 i look at C code and my eyes glaze over 21:06:39 unless i'm coding C myself 21:06:42 It's my native language. 21:06:53 C is just so ugly to me 21:06:56 heh 21:07:07 even though the most coding i've done has been in C++ 21:07:19 when i said C i also meant C++ 21:07:37 lots of coders look at forth and think it's really ugly 21:07:41 but i think it's funny 21:07:51 because they forget the learning curve they had with C/C++ 21:08:07 I haven't done too much C++. It was always changing, and I wanted it to settle down so I wouldn't have to keep unlearning things. 21:08:30 Once you "get" forth, it's addicting. 21:09:10 well they are mostly the same.. still have main(){} and for(int i,i++,i<10){} etc 21:11:25 --- mode: ChanServ set +o futhin 21:11:44 --- topic: set to 'Our mantra: Good code is written code | x86 Linux Forth coded in asm - http://isforth.clss.net | home of forth - http://www.ultratechnology.com | don't let futhin preach, tell him to go code' by futhin 21:12:18 I hated the concept of Python. But it really is nice after you start writing stuff in it. It's very regular. Not near as wakky as perl. 21:12:34 perl is uglier than C heh :) 21:13:36 It's fine for very small quick little hacks. But it it's more than a screenful, it's time to use something else. 21:14:20 * dsmith is a firm believer in "the right tool for the job" 21:14:23 yeah.. 21:14:36 my friend started coding a mud in perl 21:14:48 but he was splitting the perl code up into many files 21:15:11 still, it seemed rather terse and required to much thinking if i was reading thru and trying to understand every single thing 21:15:21 i think code should be instantly understandable 21:15:23 heh :) 21:16:34 To me C++ is a *lot* harder than C for understandablilty, 21:16:52 hmm 21:17:02 depends on what is done in the code 21:17:28 some of the things are simplified.. 21:17:48 and i liked using cout/cin instead of the weird scanf :P 21:17:50 You have to chase down all the base classes to find out homw somehting works. It's a lot of jumping around. 21:18:13 Ya. cin and cout and << and >> are cool. 21:18:52 I've used c++ for small things just because it was quicker to write the i/o stuff. 21:20:03 and if it's a _really_ small program, use asm ;) 21:20:12 heh. 21:20:25 I've written some stuff in pure asm. 21:20:27 i can code hello world in debug.com in 21 bytes ;) 21:20:32 DOS programs. 21:20:39 yeah 21:21:04 Yes. I've done thouse. Using DEBUG.EXE 21:21:44 I wrote a multi file uudecoder that only looked at each input char once. In pure asm. Very fast. 21:22:40