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00:28:50 --- log: started forth/02.06.11
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00:28:50 --- mode: carter.openprojects.net set +n
00:28:50 --- names: list (clog)
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00:31:21 --- mode: carter.openprojects.net set +o ChanServ
00:31:21 --- mode: ChanServ set +tl 83
00:31:21 --- topic: set to 'Our mantra: Good code is written code | Forth code repository - http://doesnotexist.yet |  <futhin> the fact is that forth is in a pathetic state of development right now' by ChanServ
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00:39:56 <Fractal>  /n
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00:58:03 * rob_ert thinks forth is quite nice... /names
00:58:06 <rob_ert> BAH
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04:06:25 <Serg_penguin> damn, no one active...
04:07:44 * Oscarian is away: eating tea
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05:13:02 <sif> Type sif: <forth code here> (or /msg sif <forth code here> to play in private)
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06:42:12 <Serg_penguin> hi !
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08:04:02 <Speuler> g'day
08:04:08 <n__> g'day suhr
08:04:35 <Speuler> hi n___
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08:39:51 <rob_ert> Hey nothing...
08:40:00 * rob_ert just wondered who that n__ was :)
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08:59:29 <I440r> hi air )
09:06:08 <rob_ert> Hey I440r :)
09:09:56 <I440r> rob dood
09:10:02 <I440r> get me that sockets code :P
09:10:07 <I440r> bleh :P
09:10:11 <I440r> im too lazy :)
09:11:06 <rob_ert> BAH.
09:11:09 <rob_ert> Me too ;)
09:11:25 <rob_ert> Hrm... ever installed a DNS?
09:11:29 <I440r> yes
09:11:38 <rob_ert> Which one?
09:11:43 <I440r> bind
09:11:55 <rob_ert> Mkay... I'd need to install it for my internal network.
09:12:04 <nothing> bind sucks
09:12:06 <nothing> use djbdns
09:12:07 <rob_ert> NFS needs names
09:12:24 <rob_ert> nothing: Why does bind suck?
09:13:03 <nothing> buggy, full of holes, insecure
09:13:18 <nothing> djbdns has higher performance too, bind crashes with too many NS requests
09:13:49 <rob_ert> Hehe
09:14:02 <I440r> is the soruces for dj easier to read ?
09:14:16 <I440r> bind sources are a gordian knot - almost as bad as linux sources heh
09:14:20 <nothing> i dunno, depends on your code-style preference
09:14:29 <rob_ert> I'm going to _use_ it, I440r. Not read it :)
09:14:31 <nothing> I440r: leech the sources off cr.yp.to and tell me
09:14:35 <I440r> actually only the REALY REALY well formatted and factored c s easy to read
09:14:42 <nothing> http://cr.yp.to
09:14:50 <nothing> actually, his code is very fragmented
09:14:57 <I440r> fragmented ?
09:14:59 <nothing> like, he has many .c files which are very small
09:15:02 <I440r> or factored
09:15:05 <I440r> aha
09:15:11 <I440r> sounds good so far heh
09:15:23 <I440r> depending on how well organized it is heh
09:16:10 <nothing> well check it out
09:16:26 <nothing> i like his stuff, but it has to be hacked a bit to be comfortably used
09:18:47 <I440r> 2000-11-16:
09:18:47 <I440r> The .to administrators destroy yp.to,
09:18:47 <I440r> for reasons that have not been explained.
09:18:47 <I440r> They try to fix the problem quickly,
09:18:47 <I440r> but it persists for many hours, thanks to BIND's
09:18:49 <I440r> obsolete zone-transfer protocol.
09:18:51 <I440r> lol
09:19:31 <I440r> he should do his own name service
09:20:37 <nothing> hehe
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10:32:26 <rob_ert> Hi tathi 
10:38:51 <tathi> hey rob
10:39:57 <nothing> hi toth
10:40:02 <tathi> forth is in a pathetic state of development, huh? how long has _that_ been in the topic?
10:40:18 <rob_ert> A few days.
10:40:24 <tathi> hmm
10:40:42 <tathi> whatever
10:41:56 <tathi> I wish he'd stop whining about it and start doing something about it :)
10:43:13 <rob_ert> ;)
10:43:35 <nothing> heh
10:43:43 <nothing> he's busy with his job at Safeway..
10:44:43 <I440r> safeway is an english company isnt it? are you in england nothing ?
10:44:53 <nothing> no
10:44:57 <nothing> i'm in PA, USA
10:45:07 <tathi> where in PA?
10:45:09 <nothing> Futhin has a job at Safeway, and i think he's in Canada
10:45:18 <I440r> aha ok
10:45:25 <nothing> near philadelphia
10:45:28 <I440r> canada is english :P
10:45:34 <I440r> i worked near there
10:45:36 <nothing> in the suburbs near a city called Reading
10:45:40 <I440r> for mars electronics
10:45:52 <I440r> not too far from there but the name of the town escapes me heh
10:45:58 <I440r> its old age, you forget thgins
10:46:00 <nothing> did you develop embedded forth applications there? :)
10:46:17 <I440r> no i fixed some stuipd problems with some bill acceptors
10:46:42 <I440r> a US bill acceptor was accepting the 1999 series $100 bill as a 1999 series $5 bill
10:47:06 <tathi> I can see how that would be a problem
10:47:23 <I440r> well the 1999 series $100 wasnt supposed to be released
10:47:37 <I440r> but a pile of older bills went missing from the printers
10:47:51 <I440r> so the guy in charge released the 1999 series to make up the diff
10:47:59 <I440r> so he wouldnt be short on his release
10:48:08 <I440r> he is under investigation now
10:48:46 <I440r> i also fixed a problem with the acceptor accepting clones (forgeries)
10:49:12 <I440r> the BIG problem was that this was an OLD bill acceptor, nobody there understood how it worked and it was TOTALLY undocumented
10:49:20 <I440r> so i had to figure it all out from the sources heh
10:49:24 <nothing> heh
10:49:27 <nothing> sounds like fun
10:49:31 <I440r> it was :)
10:49:54 <nothing> do any of you guys play around with 3color4Forth at all?
10:49:57 <I440r> i also added the new canadian purple $20 bill (or is it a 10?) to a canadian acceptor
10:50:03 <I440r> i dont
10:50:04 <nothing> oops, screwed up the colors
10:50:09 <I440r> lol
10:50:21 <nothing> I440r: what's your forth implementation of choice?
10:50:22 <rob_ert> I'm color-blind :(
10:50:37 <nothing> besides isForth of course, since i don't think that's mature enough for production work yet
10:50:47 <I440r> well i always used FPC in dos
10:50:54 <I440r> i have a VERY heavilly modified version of it
10:50:59 <I440r> about 30 times faster
10:51:04 <nothing> interesting
10:51:08 <I440r> both in exection and in compiling
10:51:09 <nothing> you did the speed hacks yourself?
10:51:13 <I440r> corse
10:51:15 <nothing> cool
10:51:26 <nothing> is it publically available?
10:51:44 <I440r> no
10:52:04 <I440r> i was half way thru a mod which wasnt working yet when i abandoned dos for linux heh
10:52:13 <nothing> heh
10:52:21 <nothing> what year was that?
10:52:24 <nothing> must have been a long time ago
10:52:30 <I440r> about 5 years ago
10:52:31 <I440r> maybe 6
10:52:33 <nothing> wow
10:52:47 <nothing> what did you think of linux when you first discovered it?
10:53:03 <I440r> i loved it right off. problem was it didnt love me :)
10:53:22 <I440r> it re-established my hackers enthusiasm
10:53:25 <I440r> however
10:53:32 <I440r> the problem is its ALL c
10:53:44 <I440r> and i have c more than i could possibly express
10:54:21 <I440r> i WANT to develop apps for linux but i refuse to touch the C language unless im being paid a MINIMUM of $45 per hour
10:54:30 <I440r> thats the primary reason for doing isforth
10:54:34 <I440r> to allow me to develop for linux
10:55:37 <rob_ert> Heh
10:56:46 <I440r> isforth has never been its own justification
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10:57:44 <I440r> not that isforth is REALY in a state where i feel at ease with developing with it
10:57:51 <I440r> i need to get the debugger written
10:58:00 <I440r> so i can single step forth
11:02:17 <XeF4> is the forth repository on taygeta not good enough?
11:02:24 <XeF4> (re: topic)
11:03:45 <nothing> taygeta eh
11:04:20 <I440r> yes it is good enough. its just not FULL enough heh
11:04:39 <I440r> there should be a hell of alot more forth source there than there is
11:05:37 <nothing> heh
11:05:44 <nothing> a minimum of $45 an hour
11:05:45 <nothing> rofl
11:05:53 <nothing> have you actually been paid that for C work?
11:06:05 <rob_ert> Have you ever been paid that much?
11:06:40 <I440r> yes
11:06:46 <rob_ert> Whoa...
11:06:48 <I440r> i do contract work
11:08:21 <I440r> brb walking doggie
11:09:21 <rob_ert> brb... my master takes me out for a walk
11:12:50 <tathi> so...nothing, do you play around with colorForth?
11:14:42 <nothing> sure
11:14:52 <nothing> afaik it's the reference forth implementation
11:14:58 <nothing> can you suggest a better one?
11:19:12 <tathi> no, I currently think it's pretty cool
11:20:06 <tathi> I'm in the process of implementing one for PowerPC
11:20:31 <XeF4> <default question>how far have you gotten with PPC colorforth?</default>
11:20:47 <nothing> huh interesting
11:20:54 <nothing> i should port CF to usparc
11:21:11 <tathi> well, I keep changing my mind about how to do things, so far I think I'm on my 4th rewrite :)
11:21:47 <tathi> I'm within a week or so of getting this one done though.
11:23:16 <tathi> the basic interpret/compile loop appears to be working, I just have to hook it into my bootloader code
11:23:25 <tathi> and write a decent editor :)
11:40:22 <I440r> tathi shell out to vi ;)
11:41:29 <XeF4> colorforth in vi? ewk
11:41:38 <XeF4> defeats the whole purpose imho
11:41:54 <tathi> heh
11:42:12 <XeF4> (and makes some wonderful things like retroactive redefinitions a lot harder)
11:45:02 <I440r> heh
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12:10:07 <futhin> whell whassup whitches
12:11:59 <rob_ert> Hey :D
12:12:41 <tathi> hey futhin
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12:23:39 <futhin> hey tathi
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12:24:35 <futhin> howdy xef4
12:25:56 <futhin> safeway is a grocery store
12:26:05 <futhin> 1500 stores across north america..
12:27:17 <nothing> heh
12:27:20 <nothing> futhin...
12:27:29 <nothing> sandy-haired surly safeway clerk :))
12:28:14 <futhin> xef4:  taygeta sucks crap too
12:28:18 <futhin> nothing: it's a warehouse job
12:28:31 <futhin> today i trained to drive a pallet truck
12:28:40 <futhin> and pick up loads without killing everyone in the vicinity!
12:28:53 <XeF4> is that the politically correct term for a forklift, or is it something different?
12:29:12 <futhin> something different
12:29:28 <futhin> it only lets you pick up loads that are already on the ground
12:29:37 <futhin> forklifts can pick up shelved loads
12:30:37 <futhin> there are tons of pallet trucks in this warehouse
12:30:52 <futhin> lots of traffic, taking loads to places
12:31:06 <nothing> neat-o
12:31:13 <nothing> i wonder if it's powered by forth :)
12:31:22 * XeF4 has a sick idea.
12:31:25 <futhin> nope, win 98
12:31:35 <futhin> win 98 is the most stable os
12:31:41 <futhin> so of course it's gotta be win 98
12:31:52 <XeF4> each palette is a machine word. use the high shelves for stacks.
12:32:02 <XeF4> run your forth code on the warehouse
12:32:24 <XeF4> (dup might be a bit expensive)
12:32:57 <futhin> lol
12:33:05 <nothing> heheh
12:33:21 <XeF4> drop could well get your fired, and swap is bound to infuriate inventory.  otherwise all is well
12:33:44 <I440r> lol
12:33:48 <I440r> rot would be useful
12:33:54 <I440r> stock rotation automation :)
12:35:02 --- mode: ChanServ set +o futhin
12:35:16 --- topic: set to 'Our mantra: Good code is written code | x86 Linux Forth coded in asm - http://isforth.clss.net | home of forth - http://www.ultratechnology.com' by futhin
12:35:20 <rob_ert> Hehe
12:35:43 <futhin> what?! i440r: you havent updated your website yet.. ewwwww :P
12:36:08 * futhin cracks the whip at i440r :P
12:36:33 <futhin> does anybody disagree with my statement "forth is in a pathetic state of development these days"  ??
12:36:43 <XeF4> yes
12:36:58 <XeF4> people have pathetic expectations these days
12:37:34 <futhin> what pathetic expectations?
12:39:03 <futhin> "everything must be coded in C or C++"
12:39:14 <XeF4> that forth should be all wonderful desktop flashy sexy things to all flashy sexy people with no expendeture of effort
12:39:39 * tathi thinks he agrees with XeF4 :)
12:41:09 <I440r> heh
12:41:16 --- mode: futhin set -o futhin
12:41:16 <I440r> hang on waling doggie again :P
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12:41:51 <futhin> howdy kc5tja
12:41:56 <kc5tja> re
12:42:02 <futhin> have you noticed how you say "re" sometimes when nobody says hello?
12:42:20 <futhin> and then you tell me it's supposed to be "re-hello"  like a rebounce hello or something to somebody elses hello?
12:42:21 <kc5tja> Yes.
12:42:30 <futhin> but the interesting thing is that
12:42:36 <futhin> RE is a contraction that means "concerning"
12:42:53 <kc5tja> That is not its only meaning.
12:43:03 <kc5tja> The re prefix is also used to designate repetition.
12:43:06 <futhin> i'm curious about whether or not the 
12:43:14 <kc5tja> Redo, re-account, reformat, etc.
12:43:22 <futhin> re: subjectthingie  in emails is "Reply" _or_ if it is "concerning"
12:43:36 <futhin> why say re when nobody has said hi or hello to you ?
12:43:38 <futhin> like
12:43:45 <futhin> somebody gets on your channel
12:43:45 <futhin> and you are like
12:43:46 <kc5tja> It is shorthand for "regarding"
12:43:48 <futhin> re <somebody>
12:44:10 <kc5tja> Well, each online forum has its own culture.
12:44:20 <kc5tja> I learnt the whole "re" thing on IRC from years of IRC use.
12:44:30 <kc5tja> On e-mail, it has different meaning.
12:44:45 <kc5tja> Also, when used to designate "regarding," re is often followed by a colon.
12:44:56 <futhin> i never really liked re in irc, i think its just too emotionally distant/attached..  not very friendly :P
12:44:58 <kc5tja> re: use of re on IRC
12:45:29 <kc5tja> And actually, re: predates the Internet itself by quite a long time.
12:45:34 <futhin> yes
12:45:40 <futhin> as "concerning" or "regarding" ..
12:45:42 <I440r> back
12:45:45 <kc5tja> Yup
12:45:53 <futhin> i440r: ok, now go change the website
12:45:58 <futhin> i440r: update it :P
12:46:20 <I440r> bleh
12:46:26 <I440r> im slobbing out today
12:46:26 <futhin> "re <somebody>" on irc is kind of detached..  very neutral greeting..  
12:46:29 <I440r> not done nuttin
12:46:43 <futhin> bleh
12:46:47 <futhin> i'm numero uno slob!
12:47:05 <kc5tja> Well, I'm not terribly attached to anyone here...  :)
12:47:08 <futhin> especially with this ugly clothing covering me
12:47:23 <futhin> kc: hey! meanie! feel the love here!
12:47:29 --- mode: ChanServ set +o futhin
12:47:36 --- topic: set to 'FEEL THE LOVE! | Our mantra: Good code is written code | x86 Linux Forth coded in asm - http://isforth.clss.net | home of forth - http://www.ultratechnology.com' by futhin
12:47:46 <futhin> mmmm hmm!
12:47:51 <futhin> lotsa loving around here
12:48:20 <futhin> how can you _not_ love when you are surrounded by such beautiful things like
12:48:24 <futhin> DUP and SWAP and ROT!
12:48:32 <futhin> oh! sexy things! oh yeah baby!
12:48:38 <futhin> DUP that ASS!
12:48:45 <futhin> SWAP it around a little!
12:49:27 <futhin> kc: maybe you don't want to be attached to anyone on irc?
12:49:44 * XeF4 puts on a read barrier and clears futhin's stack.  shush
12:50:19 <kc5tja> Correct; I don't really want to be attached to anyone on IRC.
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12:57:40 <Speuler> g'day
13:00:54 <I440r> bongo :)
13:00:55 <rob_ert> Hi Speuler 
13:09:44 <Speuler> hi I440r, the_rob
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13:58:30 --- nick: kc5tja -> kc-meeting
14:02:07 <futhin> hihi!
14:02:10 <futhin> hihi!
14:02:20 <futhin> hey secsay 0nes!
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14:03:00 * rob_ert thinks futhin is getting more and more strange.
14:03:56 <futhin> oh? i think you should be much more concerned that you aren't getting more and more strange!
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14:04:06 <futhin> hi fare
14:04:21 <Fare> futhin: hi
14:05:21 <rob_ert> futhin: :P
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14:24:02 <futhin> rob_ert: what evil fiendishness are you plotting these days?
14:25:32 <rob_ert> You don't want to know.
14:25:44 <rob_ert> But you will. You will.
14:25:46 <futhin> oh yeah i do :P
14:25:47 <rob_ert> Just you want.
14:25:50 <rob_ert> wait*
14:27:32 --- nick: kc-meeting -> kc5tja
14:29:56 <futhin> rob_ert: no! my evil plans might interfere with yours
14:30:03 <futhin> you must let me know quickly! :P
14:30:06 <rob_ert> Hehe.
14:30:14 <rob_ert> I'll just take over the world, no big deal.
14:31:20 <futhin> um, i already made plans to do that
14:31:37 <rob_ert> Awwww...
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15:06:30 <CrowKiller> hi
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15:10:52 <I440r> damned dog is slobbering all over my foot :P
15:10:52 <I440r> blehh
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15:20:48 <kc5tja> Well, you should give it a boot to the head then... :D
15:20:53 <kc5tja> re CrowKiller 
15:29:11 <nothing> kc5tja
15:29:15 <nothing> out of curiosity
15:29:26 <nothing> where did you get your nick?
15:29:46 <kc5tja> It all happened back when I was reprogrammed at CIA headquarters... :D
15:29:56 <kc5tja> Actually, it's my amateur radio callsign.
15:30:17 <kc5tja> (well, technically, it's KC5TJA/6 since I'm in the sixth FCC amateur district, but I digress)
15:30:35 <nothing> oh neat
15:30:41 <nothing> we had a ham radio club in HS
15:30:49 <kc5tja> HS?
15:30:55 <kc5tja> Oh, highschool.
15:30:55 <nothing> high school
15:31:02 <nothing> have you played with AX.25?
15:31:07 <kc5tja> Yes.
15:31:09 --- quit: I440r (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out))
15:33:31 <kc5tja> I'm not too happy with AX.25 though.  They could have chosen a vastly superior protocol and been a lot better off, I think.
15:38:28 <CrowKiller> im into the process of standarizing forth syntax, and I think I came up with a good idea, sicne memory is cheap these days
15:38:38 <CrowKiller> prove me that im wrong ;p
15:39:00 <CrowKiller> hmmm so UserDefinedWords are like this and kernelwords are like this
15:39:11 <CrowKiller> each kernel word or primitive or whatever
15:39:19 <CrowKiller> is uncaptitalized
15:39:33 <CrowKiller> and user defined words are like proper names, they use captital letters
15:39:37 <CrowKiller> as the first one
15:39:43 <CrowKiller> so
15:39:47 <CrowKiller> a new word being defined
15:39:53 <CrowKiller> would look like this
15:39:57 <CrowKiller> Word:
15:40:05 <CrowKiller> the :
15:40:07 <CrowKiller> is a word
15:40:11 <CrowKiller> a defining word
15:40:17 <CrowKiller> but in a much more subtle and forth way
15:40:22 <CrowKiller> imagine an array
15:40:37 <CrowKiller> 255 by address size
15:40:45 <CrowKiller> to cover an entry point in memory for each occurence
15:41:00 <CrowKiller> of any ASCII character
15:41:10 <CrowKiller> or whatever character you use
15:41:22 <CrowKiller> provide a forth engine and hop you can do event based programming
15:41:31 <CrowKiller> so in the example Word:
15:41:46 <CrowKiller> we parse blop blop blop and paf the code for : get executed
15:42:06 <CrowKiller> it first look back to the last space position in stream
15:42:17 <CrowKiller> then check the letter if its capital
15:42:30 <CrowKiller> so a kernelword definition would look like this:
15:42:37 <CrowKiller> yes, this: ;p
15:42:46 <CrowKiller> a uncapitalized word
15:42:48 <CrowKiller> an
15:42:53 <CrowKiller> ending with :
15:43:11 <CrowKiller> if the word
15:43:18 <CrowKiller> is all in caps
15:43:32 <CrowKiller> like KB or BYTES
15:43:40 <CrowKiller> it would mean a constant
15:43:50 <CrowKiller> it has no meaning its an ordinary user defined word
15:43:59 <CrowKiller> like Word: or WORDS:
15:44:12 <CrowKiller> capped words would be constant code
15:44:26 <CrowKiller> like writing " 4 KB "
15:44:35 <CrowKiller> you get 4*1024 on the stack
15:44:47 <CrowKiller> only a programmer side convention that would be nice
15:44:55 <CrowKiller> if we dont gave colors
15:45:20 <CrowKiller> hmmm also dictionary search only happen ONE time
15:45:31 <CrowKiller> since the editor save its output in ahah token forms
15:45:38 <CrowKiller> the best lossless compression for source possible
15:45:54 <CrowKiller> maybe with layers of other "hard" compression scheme
15:46:16 <CrowKiller> like e.g. lz77 
15:46:29 <CrowKiller> hmmmm this editor could be doable in javascript lol
15:46:38 <CrowKiller> im in my big exams rush right now
15:47:04 <CrowKiller> but ill definitely try to code that in my spare time
15:47:45 <Fare> Crow: Mathematica uses an opposite convention
15:47:48 <CrowKiller> in this forth space chararcter would separate and bind different words
15:47:55 <CrowKiller> newline define sentences
15:48:00 <Fare> its kernel and library words are capitalized, and user words are uncapitalized
15:48:13 <CrowKiller> sentences == small programs strating with a : and ending with newline
15:48:19 <CrowKiller> lol
15:48:26 <CrowKiller> i never used mathematica
15:48:28 <Fare> many systems use naming spaces instead
15:48:39 <Fare> CL, ML, C++, and more
15:48:39 <CrowKiller> but i know by the name the guy who did that
15:49:38 <CrowKiller> naming spaces?
15:49:55 <Fare> a bit like dictionaries in forth
15:50:01 <CrowKiller> you mean different dictionaries for the definition storage?
15:50:18 <Fare> but you can easily switch dictionaries for just one word
15:50:31 <CrowKiller> thats what is implemented into the jit compiler in every file
15:50:57 <Fare> (and more)
15:51:01 <CrowKiller> the compiler have a table in memory for macro definition storage
15:51:26 <Fare> ML has a higher-order module system -- quite nice actually. Worth a look, in any case.
15:51:30 <CrowKiller> a system can use those definitions as building blocks for every otehr programs
15:51:35 <Fare> macro???
15:51:43 <Fare> what do you call "macro" in this context?
15:51:52 <CrowKiller> forth code for dup in assembly for example
15:53:10 <Fare> oh, so a compile-only immediate word, you call a macro?
15:53:26 <Fare> or you call it a macro only if its body consists in blindly appending stuff to the current word?
15:53:47 <CrowKiller> in the system im thinking about the code bit stream parts meaning dup or drop that are known to work would be stored somewhere
15:53:55 <CrowKiller> and referenced by all the programs
15:54:03 <CrowKiller> because they would all have their own jit compiler
15:54:20 <CrowKiller> or only one could be used for every source file
15:54:34 <CrowKiller> programs would be assembled jit in a temp memory
15:54:35 <CrowKiller> no more object code
15:54:42 <CrowKiller> until we really need it, at execution time
15:54:49 <CrowKiller> maybe macro isnt the good word
15:55:13 <CrowKiller> anyway this would bring opensource new oportunities
15:55:43 <rc> CrowKiller: What new opportunities?
15:55:45 <CrowKiller> because let say youe dit something, if the editor can parse it whitout error you have a working program right away at a fraction of the space occupied
15:55:59 <CrowKiller> and that can be editable anytime
15:56:04 <CrowKiller> the real program
15:56:14 <rc> CrowKiller: Space occupied? Nobody cares. RAM is cheeeeeeaaaaaap.
15:56:16 <CrowKiller> not a copy dissassembled or replciated
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15:56:25 <CrowKiller> lol
15:56:44 <CrowKiller> these fat giga bytes numbers are enslaving people to spit out bad code
15:57:06 <rc> CrowKiller: Bad in what respect?
15:57:06 <CrowKiller> this is making companies rich and you poor
15:57:10 <CrowKiller> liek a virus
15:57:22 <rc> CrowKiller: Suppose I own the company, or am invested in it.
15:57:33 <CrowKiller> yay your rich
15:57:42 <CrowKiller> but everybody,s a little poorer
15:57:49 <CrowKiller> they are people like you and me
15:57:53 <CrowKiller> and you wouldnt rob a friend
15:58:03 <CrowKiller> maybe another "concurent"
15:58:10 <rc> CrowKiller: I don't see how writing Java instead of Forth costs me (the programmer) money.
15:58:11 <CrowKiller> but the line is thin
15:58:18 <CrowKiller> hmmmm
15:58:24 <CrowKiller> you make code
15:58:32 <CrowKiller> that clogs up a little bit a computer somewhere
15:58:44 <CrowKiller> and all those bloat code not to the metal ends by clogging up things
15:58:51 <CrowKiller> and you need more hardware
15:59:05 <rc> CrowKiller: I can write more functionality in Java in less time than it takes me to write the functionality in Forth. That's called an unmitigated economic good.
15:59:07 <CrowKiller> come on 1.6ghz to type text?? 64 meg ram lol
15:59:16 <rc> CrowKiller: Hardware is  much cheaper than the cost of my labor.
15:59:20 <CrowKiller> forth is flawed
15:59:27 <CrowKiller> to this day forth is flawed
15:59:34 <rc> CrowKiller: No!!!
15:59:43 <CrowKiller> everybody think its great see the potential but no one take it
15:59:45 <CrowKiller> note even me
15:59:51 <CrowKiller> im just entering design pahse
16:00:19 <rc> CrowKiller: Hardware is extremely cheap. You would be wise to include that consideration in your design.
16:00:26 <CrowKiller> and i see that things could be much better, im getting a better overall view at what an os must be
16:00:43 <CrowKiller> extremely cheap but not utilized
16:01:06 <rc> CrowKiller: Yes. Hardware could be better utilized. I agree with that.
16:01:06 <CrowKiller> millions of transistors end up doing pretty much nothing except dissipate heat doin inneficient work
16:01:18 <CrowKiller> look at c18, or misc chips
16:01:20 <CrowKiller> 4000 gates
16:01:24 <CrowKiller> and hop a processor
16:01:56 <CrowKiller> those are maybe asynchronous gates, buts anyway at this level on control over the circuit, when casting chips, you can do easy asynchonous logic
16:02:15 <CrowKiller> circuits exists, methodologies are avaible
16:02:29 <CrowKiller> a ARM processor was replicated in asynchonous logic
16:02:47 <CrowKiller> imagine a arm with no clock running as much fast if not more and dissiping a lot let power
16:03:02 <CrowKiller> and even that design was not as hand optimized as Chuck's chip
16:03:31 <CrowKiller> if OKAD was more easy to learn I would look at his work, but pages about logic and all doesnt work on his site
16:03:46 <CrowKiller> so i dont have all the information needed to understand all the in and out but anyway
16:03:59 <CrowKiller> a good Forth methodology must be conceived
16:04:22 <CrowKiller> i mean this thing is extraterrestrial lol transcendantal would be the word
16:04:32 <CrowKiller> forth concept extent itself anywahere
16:05:02 <CrowKiller> much like cellular automaton, but on a much greater purpose
16:05:12 <CrowKiller> hm greater is relative
16:05:16 <CrowKiller> but at least more consistent
16:05:21 <CrowKiller> at the first sight
16:05:40 <CrowKiller> than in  Wolfram's book ANKOS;p
16:05:48 <CrowKiller> www.wolframscience.com
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16:10:31 <CrowKiller> to me a forth os would be easly doable, but having the best set of primitives and the best set of representation at the bit level is the real question to be answered
16:10:49 <CrowKiller> representations*
16:14:37 <CrowKiller> look at this if you dont believe in sacred geometry its fantastic: http://www.soulinvitation.com/7arrows/index.html science like it should be illustrated in schools
16:15:38 <davidw> dio can
16:16:05 <nothing> what is that crap?
16:16:22 <CrowKiller> text is irrelevant most of the time
16:17:21 <CrowKiller> the images and geomtetric correspondances though are stunning
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16:19:33 <I440r> god this dog is the best fucking dog ive ever seen
16:19:49 <CrowKiller> ?
16:19:57 <I440r> i just baught her a flea and tick collare and when i opened the packet she came over to get it put on her
16:20:07 <I440r> its a full blooded siberian husky
16:20:17 <I440r> a stray my sister brought home
16:21:12 <nothing> hrm
16:21:26 <nothing> are you going to train it to be your attack/guard dog? :)
16:21:32 <CrowKiller> i have myself a cat, and attention given to her is rewarded also by an acute "concsientisation" of the animal
16:21:36 <I440r> they dont make good guard dogs
16:21:44 <I440r> except that they LOOK ferocious
16:21:48 <I440r> they are too friendly 
16:22:06 <I440r> they would prolly go lick the intruders hand instead of attack heh
16:22:07 <davidw> cats rule
16:22:17 <I440r> agreed
16:22:25 <I440r> but so do dogs
16:22:50 <davidw> I guess... I just never got into the idea of dogs
16:23:13 <I440r> ive owned many. none like this dog
16:23:26 <I440r> closest cat i could think of as a paralell is siamese
16:23:31 <CrowKiller> when my mother decided to make the "ablation" some time ago to sterilize her, the cat was traumatized by the operation and she sat headed toward the wall like the sphinx and stayed there for at least 2 complete days
16:24:02 <davidw> I like cats because you have to be liked by them...
16:24:02 <rc> Pets can be traumatized by surgery.
16:24:31 <davidw> I think I could understand that having your balls hacked off might be, to put it mildly, a bit of a shock
16:24:35 <CrowKiller> she didnt want me to touch her, and i deeply respected her afterwards
16:24:41 <CrowKiller> much like with girls lol
16:24:44 <davidw> oh, a her
16:26:15 --- nick: rc -> int21h
16:26:59 <CrowKiller> hmmmm and for comments in the code i was talking about earliers "" would be the delimiters
16:27:07 --- nick: int21h -> rc
16:27:27 <CrowKiller> this syntax would look a lot like written text
16:27:55 <CrowKiller> to be "catchy" and more understandable
16:28:48 <CrowKiller> im sure we can do a forth system we can teach anyone in 30 minutes and they will entirely be able to replicate the system and play with it in the first place, without knowledge handicaps or blocage
16:29:41 <CrowKiller> having to buy a 40$ book juts to know how to use a OS or a language complexified just for making money
16:29:51 <CrowKiller> just plain sucks
16:30:05 <CrowKiller> ive been offered a book about visual basic 5
16:30:08 <CrowKiller> as a gift
16:30:35 <CrowKiller> and I can personally testify that its shit, even if i didnt worked with it or any other language for that matter
16:30:50 <CrowKiller> because when ive read the book i dont know how it works
16:31:16 <CrowKiller> so the book become flawed because its only a mean for people to use the system blindlessly with the book's concern
16:31:22 <CrowKiller> outdate the software
16:31:31 <CrowKiller> e.g. linux
16:31:32 <rc> "blindlessly"?
16:31:38 <davidw> I think one of the difficult things about forth is that you have to keeep track in yhour head of what's going on (the stack)
16:31:39 <CrowKiller> and all the previous stuff is trhown to the garbage
16:32:01 <CrowKiller> its dead easy once you KNOW the problem
16:32:03 <davidw> that can be difficult
16:32:10 <CrowKiller> yes
16:32:22 <CrowKiller> but its doable without spending too much effort
16:32:44 <davidw> barcaro
16:33:07 <CrowKiller> by making words one at a time you know what you have on the stack anytime
16:33:36 <CrowKiller> at least I would do do that for me, personal opininon
16:33:58 <CrowKiller> but I strongly feel that its the way to go
16:34:09 <CrowKiller> the UNIX crowd understood early
16:34:17 <CrowKiller> the power of small one thing programs
16:34:19 <CrowKiller> linked togheter
16:34:24 <CrowKiller> together
16:34:40 <CrowKiller> but its not applied deep enough, theres complexities unresolved
16:35:39 <CrowKiller> at least for me, again, im not uber wizz, I dont want to learn those stupid things anymore
16:35:44 <CrowKiller> stupid ==
16:36:15 <CrowKiller> irrelevant, for wich i have no use and theres no place for such inneficiency, only stupidity can explain its presence
16:36:20 <CrowKiller> so its not that prejorative
16:36:22 <CrowKiller> anyway ;p
16:37:08 <CrowKiller> forth is the thing
16:37:29 <CrowKiller> but now its (ANSI and orther conventions) Standard is a mess
16:38:14 <kc5tja> Sorry, I've been afk.  I'll probably be afk quite often this whole week.
16:38:23 <kc5tja> Debugging new batch of chips.
16:38:40 <CrowKiller> i would be much more than afk if i was doing that lol
16:39:07 <kc5tja> Well, not really.  Most of your time spent debugging the hardware is waiting for the hardware to produce results.
16:39:13 <kc5tja> Or worse, waiting for an intermittent fault.
16:41:05 <I440r> lol that sounds like fun heh
16:41:05 <I440r> waiting to produce a fault you have no idea how to produce :P
16:41:34 <davidw> sleep
16:42:04 <kc5tja> That's how it starts out at first, but once you start to see patterns, you can narrow the debugging down.
16:42:38 <kc5tja> Eventually, you end up with program code that exercises specific execution units in the chip, without having to bother with all the rigamorole of random probing.
16:42:41 <kc5tja> But that's the way silicon testing occurs in general.
16:43:25 <kc5tja> It's both fun and annoying/stressful at the same time, too.
16:44:58 * CrowKiller is thinking about the fact that forth hardware design and simulation (OKAD) would lessen associated hassles completely
16:45:12 <kc5tja> Nope.
16:45:25 <kc5tja> Chuck had his fair share of hassles too, which his simulations didn't foresee.
16:45:43 <kc5tja> But our chips have over 7 million transistors in them, too (and yes, all of them are justified!!).
16:47:28 <CrowKiller> my chip would be like
16:47:32 <CrowKiller> the writeable computer
16:47:46 <CrowKiller> made by Rob Chapman
16:47:54 <CrowKiller> but with a MISC twist
16:48:07 <CrowKiller> there would be two chips
16:48:28 <kc5tja> Writable microcode computers, or any microcode computer for that matter, is entirely too complicated.  I'd rather have a dedicated instruction set that is so simple that it cannot fail.
16:48:34 <CrowKiller> one would execute the instruction, the other would mimmic all possible instruction and would be hooked to the real chip
16:49:08 <CrowKiller> so that only one instruction only trigger a single line to latch the output of some of the components
16:50:43 <CrowKiller> im sure it could be made easier by using asynchrnous design methodologies, or a lot of fifo buffers everywhere, i dont know something must do the job lol
16:50:52 <kc5tja> Nope -- not me.  I'm a coprocessor fan -- I like having a simple, general purpose computer at the core, surrounded by numerous coprocessors that all work together.  Like MuP21 and its video coprocessor.
16:51:08 <CrowKiller> in my chip every logic would be a coprocessor
16:51:41 <kc5tja> You're describing a MOVE architecture -- I'm not a fan of MOVE architectures because of reduced program density.
16:51:41 <CrowKiller> like one side running logic in the center the instruction decodeing table and at the left the shadow logic
16:52:02 <kc5tja> You're using terms that are most definitely not industry standard, so I have no idea what you're talking about now.
16:52:13 <CrowKiller> hmmm im thinking right now of a center processor
16:52:17 <CrowKiller> doing only one thing
16:52:21 <kc5tja> What is that thing?
16:52:25 <CrowKiller> getching in instructions and carry them out
16:52:31 <CrowKiller> fetching
16:52:33 <kc5tja> That's what all processors do.
16:52:41 <CrowKiller> i mean in hardware
16:52:47 <CrowKiller> only trigger the right line
16:52:47 <kc5tja> They do.
16:52:51 <CrowKiller> for the instruction
16:52:59 <kc5tja> That's what a processor's "instruction decoder" does.
16:53:20 <CrowKiller> the processor in a whole would do every possible instruction each time
16:53:42 <kc5tja> Right.  MuP21 and its children do this.
16:53:46 <CrowKiller> and only that line would latch the result  in the processor
16:54:50 <CrowKiller> i know it inspired me to try defining the instructions in their optimal format
16:55:36 <CrowKiller> and I came with things like a doped A register doing all table lookup things with the help of the datastack with instructions like +@
16:56:02 <CrowKiller> and im experimenting with syntax on my spare time too
16:57:15 <CrowKiller> im in a active research project, its one of the rare thing I put myself in so easly
16:57:32 <futhin> rc/crowkiller: a perfect os only needs to be done once.. and the benefits are quickly realized :)
16:57:33 <CrowKiller> etc etc blop blop blop ;p 
16:57:48 <futhin> crowkiller: no caps
16:57:52 <futhin> don't use caps
16:57:55 <CrowKiller> yeah i know, solid ground to step on
16:57:59 <rc> futhin: There is no perfect OS.
16:58:09 <CrowKiller> why i should not use caps
16:58:20 <futhin> i want to do all my coding in lowercase
16:58:24 <CrowKiller> my brain is trained to put some importance to capitalized word
16:58:27 <CrowKiller> lol
16:58:30 <CrowKiller> thats not a reason
16:58:31 <CrowKiller> lol
16:58:35 <futhin> yes it is
16:58:45 <CrowKiller> the tokens wont use ascii at all
16:58:46 <futhin> it's a pain to capitalize things and looks ugly quickly
16:58:51 <CrowKiller> just put color instead
16:58:52 <futhin> ok
16:59:04 <CrowKiller> hehehe ;p
16:59:23 <kc5tja> There's a difference between coding conventions and coding syntax.
16:59:25 <kc5tja> WHOA...
16:59:35 <kc5tja> There's a difference between coding conventions and coding syntax.
16:59:38 <kc5tja> That's better.
16:59:41 <I440r> crow all lower case is gives FAR less of a cluttered appearance IMHO
16:59:45 --- mode: futhin set +c
16:59:46 <futhin> :P
16:59:52 --- mode: futhin set -c
17:00:00 <I440r> my source files usually dont have ANY upper case except within strings
17:00:01 <futhin> rc: not yet..  however, i'm exageratting about the perfectness of the os
17:00:06 <CrowKiller> l440r unless you work with a lot of kernel word
17:00:13 <CrowKiller> or primitives
17:00:27 * kc5tja notes that the V and B keys are right next to each other on QWERTY keyboard, and I'm not fluent enough with Dvorak yet to do regular typing in it yet, so...deal with it.  :)
17:01:13 * kc5tja finds the code is visually less cluttered with the use of capitalized "keywords" (e.g., compiler words in Forth) instead of all lower-case.
17:01:23 <CrowKiller> actually i was thinking like that first
17:01:28 <kc5tja> All lower-case or all upper-case source gives me major headaches (in the painful sense of the term)
17:01:34 <CrowKiller> lower case words
17:01:50 <CrowKiller> but i thought that i wanted to use base64 for encoding
17:02:11 --- quit: davidw (Read error: 113 (No route to host))
17:02:35 <CrowKiller> "I thought using base 64 encoding" would be a much ncier contruct
17:02:41 <CrowKiller> ;p
17:06:25 <kc5tja> Man, writing code in base64 wouldn't offer any significant readability advantages over BrainFuck or Befunge... :D
17:06:32 <CrowKiller> base64 use 'ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz0123456789+/' as character set
17:07:06 <CrowKiller> i want to at least have all these characters in my own char set
17:07:06 <CrowKiller> but not much more
17:07:18 <kc5tja> I quite often use characters not in that set for my Forth words.  Constants usually are prefixed with # or have a / in them (e.g., Price/GallonOfGas).
17:07:53 <CrowKiller> for a clean ASCII syntax i came with scheme that constants should ba capped word
17:08:15 <CrowKiller> it ease the programmer's job knowing at first sight that this word only dows that
17:08:20 <CrowKiller> does
17:08:29 * kc5tja prefers self-documenting words instead.
17:08:39 <kc5tja> Cost/LiterOfSoda is pretty self-expanatory.  :)
17:09:47 <kc5tja> It also leaves the option open to re-implement Cost/LiterOfSoda not as a constant, but as a real word that computes the cost based on current market price of soda, for example.
17:10:09 <kc5tja> The meaning of the code is not changed when this happens, and I do not need to do a global search and replace operation upon such a conversion.
17:10:37 <CrowKiller> a personified compiler for an application could treat constants as such
17:10:47 <kc5tja> Personified??
17:10:50 <CrowKiller> code for compilers is very viral
17:11:00 <kc5tja> Viral??
17:11:02 <CrowKiller> like it start from a small aha source
17:11:14 <CrowKiller> change it and then store the correct compielr for the version with it
17:11:22 <kc5tja> But why?
17:11:29 <CrowKiller> because the compielrs do almost the same job its viral in some sense
17:11:36 <kc5tja> Why should I have to re-write not only the compiler, but the application as well, for what should be a single change?
17:11:37 <CrowKiller> because like in example
17:11:59 <CrowKiller> you want a bunch of source to be compiled with special care about constants
17:12:02 <CrowKiller> i dont know lol
17:12:12 <CrowKiller> but it would be fesaible, maybe not necessary but feasible
17:12:13 <CrowKiller> ;p
17:12:32 <CrowKiller> a compiler for aha is very easy to write, one page or less
17:12:44 <kc5tja> But it's not special care about constants.  The compiler doesn't even know it's compiling a constant (in FS/Forth, for example, 12 CONSTANT DOZEN is exactly the same as : DOZEN 12 ;).
17:12:51 <kc5tja> That's not a compiler.
17:12:58 <kc5tja> That's just a block copier into memory.
17:13:26 <kc5tja> In Aha, it is the editor that incorporates the compiler.  
17:13:33 <CrowKiller> yeah but it does the job of compiling pretty good
17:13:41 <kc5tja> But it doesn't compile.
17:13:49 <kc5tja> It's not translating one source form into another.
17:14:08 <I440r> kc5 could you make constant the same as my const? - i.e. give the : a does part to compile the literal into where ever its used?
17:14:09 <CrowKiller> yeah not in aha
17:14:11 <kc5tja> That's the definition of compiler -- it's a translator that converts one program representation (e.g., ASCII text) into another form (machine language).
17:14:17 <futhin> chest hair is very distracting, arrr, arrr!
17:14:45 <CrowKiller> but in my piece of code the editor is only a textbox in javascript nothing more
17:14:54 <I440r> : constat create compile (lit) , does> state @ if compile (lit) , then ;
17:15:16 <CrowKiller> the editor then compact source into aha like source
17:15:22 <CrowKiller> first translation
17:15:27 <kc5tja> I440r: I could, but I really don't care to right now.  It offers me no advantages.
17:15:35 <CrowKiller> and that,s this translation thats saved for local usage
17:15:51 <kc5tja> "the editor then compact source into aha like source" <-- that's the compiler.
17:15:52 --- topic: set to 'FEEL THE LOVE! | Our mantra: Good code is written code | x86 Linux Forth coded in asm - http://isforth.clss.net | home of forth - http://www.ultratechnology.com | how big can i make the topic?  i love big topics.  what do you think about chest hair and forth?  i dunno, but a hairy forth just has that wonderfully magical appeal!  blahblahblah' by futhin
17:15:56 <futhin> hm
17:16:06 <CrowKiller> but ascii can go down the wire nicely, be printed, scanned and even OCRed who knows ;p
17:16:16 <I440r> prolly slightly faster but possibly slightly bigger tii
17:16:29 <CrowKiller> kc5tja: yes
17:16:55 <CrowKiller> but the machine code is only generated at run time, to be efficient
17:17:15 <kc5tja> I440r: No, it'll be somewhat slower (invoking a constant requires a subroutine call and a return).  I don't use constants enough to make the switch, especially this early in the game.  Right now, I want something that works, even if it's slow.
17:18:48 <kc5tja> CrowKiller: No offense, but I find your system to be wildly over-complicated.  I've reviewed Jeff Fox's AHA architecture, and while there are some salient features of it, I just don't see the need for any of it.  The environment becomes very, very difficult to follow, and the flexibility to express the source code as I see fit is greatly diminished, which directly impacts my happiness with the system.
17:19:43 <I440r> speaking of thefox where he be ?
17:21:30 <futhin> why? you expecting him
17:21:40 <nothing> thefox = I440r's love slave
17:21:50 <I440r> nope
17:21:56 <CrowKiller> the editor does ascii2aha and aha2ascii and the compiler is the small loader that "unpacks" or compile source somewhere in memory for execution
17:22:05 <I440r> nothing i consider that statement inappropriate
17:22:31 <nothing> ah, sorry
17:22:49 <nothing> i forgot to take my meds today
17:22:49 <CrowKiller> compilers in my world (hihi) could be spawned with source appended to them
17:23:06 <CrowKiller> or maybe a central compielr for security directly embedded in rom or in the os
17:23:33 <CrowKiller> the word compile would mean a lot in this kind of system ;p
17:24:43 <futhin> nothing: i forgot to take my meds 4 months ago
17:28:43 * CrowKiller is currently on a trend to inhalate vaporized THC coming from high quality honeyoil (less than a mm3, once a day after school)
17:29:12 <nothing> uh
17:29:32 <futhin> crowkiller: most of the ppl in here frown on drugs so keep it quiet ;P
17:31:01 * CrowKiller is trying to open's people mind a little on that particular matter indeed, junkies are people not ready to use such powerful and sacred allies
17:31:24 * CrowKiller is also offtopic ;p
17:33:36 * CrowKiller is also trying to make a working AVR port of the http://www.godsmaze.com/gba
17:33:49 * CrowKiller is also trying to make a working AVR port of the http://www.godsmaze.org/gba
17:34:18 <CrowKiller> im sure the gba can take 5v on his serial port
17:34:24 <CrowKiller> even if its only made for 3.3
17:35:23 <futhin> rc: the problem is that every bloated program out there hurts the users.  and people fail to recognize that the programmer's time is cheaper than the users time.   imagine you can save 1 second of time in a particular program that everybody uses..  if millions of people are using the program, you've saved millions of seconds, it adds up..
17:35:25 <CrowKiller> a one "chip, resonator, decoupling cap" solution is possible IMHO, I hope I wont fry my gba, but Nintendo amkes good hardware
17:35:35 <futhin> i have a gameboy and an hp48g calc
17:35:42 <futhin> i plan on hacking either or both of them some day
17:35:50 <futhin> can i do anything cool with a gameboy?
17:35:56 <CrowKiller> the gameboy scene is truly amazing
17:35:59 <CrowKiller> LOL
17:36:03 <CrowKiller> just look
17:36:08 <CrowKiller> its full of demos
17:36:16 <CrowKiller> of hardware, code, docs
17:36:23 <CrowKiller> programmable carts plans
17:36:41 <CrowKiller> even memory MBC chips designed in CPLDs
17:36:53 <CrowKiller> memory bank controller, a chip inside the cart IIRC
17:37:08 <CrowKiller> even the gba scene is quite active
17:37:36 <CrowKiller> theres a NES emulator running on the GBA
17:38:34 <futhin> what can i do with a gameboy?  in the scope of forth
17:38:41 <futhin> i don't care about installing linux on it or something like that :P
17:38:55 <futhin> maybe i could make the gameboy into a pda?  with a portable keyboard?
17:38:55 <CrowKiller> the preocessor
17:38:58 <CrowKiller> is a z80 offspring
17:39:05 <CrowKiller> so you can do a z80 forth
17:39:11 <CrowKiller> that I could use into my TI-83
17:39:13 <CrowKiller> ;ppp
17:39:26 <CrowKiller> thats one of my dream with the gba
17:39:34 <futhin> heh
17:39:43 <CrowKiller> sicne there,s a cable to plug it with the gamecube, it could mean a lot ;p
17:41:15 <CrowKiller> but the gba is much more attractive: pros: 32 bit arm processor, color screen, sound, serial bootloading capabilty, mean you dont need any cart to start coding
17:41:34 <CrowKiller> cons: dark screen, no mp3 with the sound board
17:41:44 <CrowKiller> at least i dont think its doable
17:41:50 <CrowKiller> but who knows
17:42:17 <CrowKiller> maybe with headphones
17:44:27 <CrowKiller> http://pages.prodigy.net/tan.ax/GBALCDProj/GBALCDProject.html
17:44:31 <CrowKiller> this is a neat hack
17:44:44 <CrowKiller> a PsOne lcd screen hacked for use with the gba
17:48:37 <futhin> f00d f00d f00d fud f00d fud fud fud f00d fuud f00d fud01231lk2akdlfa
17:49:31 <nothing> futhin: put your face in the glue!!
17:50:21 <CrowKiller> futhin is in an epileptic state
17:50:57 <futhin> i'm almost too lazy to get up and cook some food
17:52:00 <CrowKiller> futhin: do you know about breatharianism?
17:52:43 <CrowKiller> http://www.jesus-diet.com/stopeating.htm
17:52:52 <CrowKiller> this website is really thought provocating
17:53:02 <futhin> lol
17:53:29 <futhin> crowkiller:  you seem to go for thought provoking stuff, like i also do
17:53:35 <futhin> you should read
17:53:40 <futhin> rich dad poor dad
17:53:55 <futhin> oh, and learn economics
17:53:56 <futhin> :D
17:54:04 <futhin> (seriously..)
17:58:35 --- quit: rc ("BitchX: all the things phone and hop won't include")
17:58:48 <futhin> i'm gonna eat and boost my intelligence four-fold for three hours!
17:58:50 <futhin> it's gonna be fun
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18:01:00 <CrowKilr> re
18:01:06 <futhin> hey
18:01:12 <futhin> what was the last thing you saw me say?
18:01:23 <CrowKilr> <futhin> lol
18:01:26 <futhin> [18:53] <futhin> crowkiller:  you seem to go for thought provoking stuff, like i also do
18:01:26 <futhin> [18:53] <futhin> you should read
18:01:26 <futhin> [18:54] <futhin> rich dad poor dad
18:01:26 <futhin> [18:54] <futhin> oh, and learn economics
18:01:26 <futhin> [18:54] <futhin> :D
18:01:27 <futhin> [18:54] <futhin> (seriously..)
18:01:34 --- quit: CrowKiller (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer))
18:02:07 <CrowKilr> i've actually done a economics class exam today
18:02:14 <futhin> microeconomics?
18:02:18 <CrowKilr> no
18:02:24 <futhin> home economics?
18:03:04 <futhin> it isn't economics if you didn't learn supply and demand and ceiling or floor price-fixing 
18:03:13 <futhin> and dead loss
18:03:26 <CrowKilr> here in quebec just before college in high school we must complete an Economic Science course teachnings the basics of businesses, lends, banks etc
18:03:36 <CrowKilr> supply and demand also
18:04:20 <CrowKilr> its all french technical words that i dont know how to translate sorry i cant descrive it much better than that lol
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18:20:00 <TheBlueWizard> hiya all
18:20:14 <kc5tja> TheBlueWizard: re
18:21:34 <CrowKilr> hi
18:33:46 --- quit: I440r ("Reality Strikes Again")
18:43:12 --- nick: kc5tja -> kc-fodd
18:43:14 --- nick: kc-fodd -> kc-food
19:03:47 <TheBlueWizard> gotta go
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19:08:24 --- nick: kc-food -> kc5tja
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19:40:52 --- quit: CrowKilr ("User pushed the X - because it's Xtra, baby")
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21:34:14 <futhin> hey kc5tja
21:35:04 <futhin> oh!!!
21:35:07 <futhin> i know who rc was!
21:39:40 <futhin> well, i guess i go to bed
21:39:44 <kc5tja> Who?
21:39:58 <kc5tja> Sorry, I'm reading up on compressed air engines...
21:41:27 <futhin> writable computer, by rob chapman..  also coded timbre some forth program
21:42:04 <futhin> good night
21:42:07 --- quit: futhin ("bye")
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21:44:59 <futhin> rc is or was working on a VFM that produced C code
21:45:02 <futhin> s/produced/produces
21:45:11 <kc5tja> Ahh
21:45:28 <futhin> which is what crowkiller is so interested in :)
21:45:33 <kc5tja> Heheh
21:45:33 --- mode: ChanServ set +o futhin
21:46:38 <kc5tja> Right now, I'm more interested in my turbine than much of anything else.  Plus thinking about Dolphin and whatnot.  I just don't have the initiative right now to work on FS/Forth, although I've got pretty decent progress into it so far.
21:47:08 --- topic: set to 'Feel the Love! dup & swap are sexy! | Our mantra: Good code is written code | x86 Linux Forth coded in asm - http://isforth.clss.net | home of forth - http://www.ultratechnology.com |  VFMs are leet!' by futhin
21:47:21 <futhin> yeah
21:47:31 <futhin> it happens..
21:47:37 <futhin> i started work this week
21:47:43 <futhin> hopefully i get a good routine out of it
21:47:48 <futhin> well
21:47:50 <futhin> off to bed again
21:47:53 --- quit: futhin (Client Quit)
21:47:56 <kc5tja> Hehe :)  OK
22:01:13 --- quit: kc5tja ("THX QSO ES 73 DE KC5TJA/6 CL ES QRT AR SK")
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23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/02.06.11