00:00:00 --- log: started forth/02.06.08
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00:26:11 <XeF4> hello.  do you know if the FigUK IRC meetings are still actively held?
00:26:33 <gedamo> first saturday of every month
00:27:49 <XeF4> *nod* do they see much traffic?
00:28:16 <gedamo> don't know, I've never been to one :)
00:29:07 <gedamo> there's always a reminder posted to comp.lang.forth
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02:33:12 <Stepan> moin
02:33:42 <rob_ert> Morgen
02:33:48 <XeF4> huomenta
02:34:01 <rob_ert> (Bleh.... finnish....)
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03:17:04 <davidw> snzzzz
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04:43:06 <Stepan> : alloc-mem mem-top @ swap - /n negate and dup mem-bottom @ < if drop 0 else dup mem-top ! then ;
04:43:13 <Stepan> is this stupid?
04:43:22 <Stepan> : free-mem drop ;
04:43:24 <Stepan> ;)
04:43:40 <davidw> forth is a bitch to read
04:44:27 <Stepan> ooh yes
05:21:57 <onetom> davidw: oh, no, its just like natural lang, really... u have 2 read it more carefully, word by word
05:22:16 <onetom> davidw: nowdays i feel the similarity more & more
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05:28:50 <rob_ert> onetom: That's because your written language looks like forth ;)
05:29:26 <rob_ert> That is, with many strange acronyms and no syntax ;(
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06:08:28 <onetom> rob_ert: :D thx
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06:40:26 <davidw> Argh... stupid chinese spam
06:41:36 <Fare> chinese or korean?
06:41:44 <davidw> I think it's chinese
06:41:45 <davidw> I don't know
06:41:50 <davidw> I read it as Y^&^(**&^*YDFSFDY*&FY*DYS'
06:41:53 <davidw> more or less
06:42:30 <davidw> I guess this one is korean
06:44:09 <davidw> "it says %100 guaranteed, you moron" "mister, if you don't shut up, I'm gonna kick 100 percent of your ass!"
06:55:40 * davidw is bored
06:55:56 <davidw> docbook/xml/xsl is a royal pain in the ass, and is about the wordiest thing I have ever used
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11:58:30 <CrowKiller> Trying to design a One bit computer is really making me look at things from a weird new perspective.
11:58:58 <I440r> lol
11:59:10 <I440r> how does a 1 bit computer work lol
11:59:20 <CrowKiller> with a lot of logic
11:59:27 <CrowKiller> like an input bit stream
11:59:35 <CrowKiller> imagine a serial input bit stream
11:59:40 <I440r> i have a cd player with a 1 bit DAC and i dont understand how you can convert 1 bit of data into an analogue signal heh
12:00:44 <CrowKiller> hehehe with pwm maybe
12:01:18 <CrowKiller> converts from 0 and 22000hz in voltage
12:01:53 <CrowKiller> from there you can only go with pwm or "magic sinus" (its weird but i dont recall correctly ) technology
12:01:59 <CrowKiller> magic sine wave
12:02:09 <CrowKiller> thats the name of the thing
12:02:11 <CrowKiller> anyway
12:02:16 <CrowKiller> its weird ;p
12:02:23 <CrowKiller> and for a one bit computer
12:02:29 <CrowKiller> i think ive devised something
12:03:06 <CrowKiller> there is only one instruction sent down the binary instruction input stream
12:03:08 <CrowKiller> and its 0
12:03:12 <CrowKiller> it means execute
12:03:19 <CrowKiller> and its one bit long
12:03:34 <CrowKiller> now for the other instructions
12:03:48 <CrowKiller> if the bit isnt zero, its fed into a giant stack
12:03:51 <CrowKiller> like in forth
12:03:59 <CrowKiller> but its a 1 bit wide stack
12:04:02 <CrowKiller> a shift regitser
12:04:23 <CrowKiller> when the execute signal is sent,
12:04:40 <CrowKiller> asynchrnous logic should be around the stack
12:04:53 <CrowKiller> starting the logic work
12:05:19 <CrowKiller> its up to designer to implement an instruction "reader" in the first stack item or the last
12:05:30 <CrowKiller> cause these are variable length cells
12:05:47 <CrowKiller> the hardware and software designer can team up together
12:06:04 <CrowKiller> to design the logic to be made around the shif registers
12:06:13 <I440r> sounds neat - will it work ?
12:06:14 <CrowKiller> and to implement the eactual logic on every bit
12:06:39 <CrowKiller> i dont know but it coud be great
12:06:47 <I440r> how do you shift a 0 bit into the shift register ?
12:06:47 <I440r> if the 0 bit means execute
12:07:23 <CrowKiller> you make the condition test only let say at a variable cell  width in the stream
12:07:34 <CrowKiller> like at every 8 bit test for zero
12:07:53 <CrowKiller> the design would be surely very scalable
12:07:54 <CrowKiller> ;p
12:08:23 <CrowKiller> we could implement 256 bits wide computers with millions of transistors
12:08:30 <CrowKiller> but im not expert
12:09:07 <CrowKiller> i know where this idea came from in the first place
12:09:10 <I440r> you could have gates on the other side of the shift register so execute could simply mean shift the instruction out. if a 0 bit is shifted out the left gate opens. else the right one opens.  after each of these gates you have 2 more 0/1 gates the last bit out will go to the leaf gate of the tree and do whatever
12:09:43 <CrowKiller> kc5tja told me about a one bit optical computer implemented as a logic box with the successives masks on a tape
12:09:47 <I440r> not being a hardware guy ive no idea if the above would work :)
12:10:13 <I440r> i would however suggest manchester encoding of the bits shifting INTO the execute shift register
12:10:15 <CrowKiller> yeah like pitch it on an intelligent bus
12:10:24 <CrowKiller> that would route it to the right module
12:10:43 <CrowKiller> a logic tree
12:11:18 <CrowKiller> hmm maybe making our own computer is still possible
12:11:30 <CrowKiller> i mean our own performant computers
12:12:08 <CrowKiller> chuck did it
12:12:10 <CrowKiller> lol
12:12:46 <CrowKiller> hey that guy did it for real lol he designed all his own software thats incredible, i remember the first day i couldnot believe it
12:13:00 <CrowKiller> that he did it in the first place lol
12:13:42 <I440r> heh
12:13:55 <I440r> chuck is sorta smart(ish)
12:13:55 <I440r> :)
12:14:24 <CrowKiller> until that very day, I wasnt interrested in computers anymore, i wasnt larning anything new
12:14:56 <CrowKiller> os and how computr work, but now these i explore truly how logic goes into a computer chip
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12:15:16 <Speuler> g'day
12:15:21 <CrowKiller> hi
12:17:29 <I440r> bongo!
12:19:17 <I440r> Speuler: what are you doing these days?
12:19:25 <I440r> still driving a gazillion miles a day?
12:20:06 <Speuler> I440r: may have found a permanent place to put the car
12:20:20 <Speuler> close to a  campfire :)
12:20:27 <Speuler> but electriity too
12:20:47 <Speuler> need to install a gateway in return
12:20:59 <Speuler> (means i got internet there too)
12:21:29 <I440r> cool - u getting the electricity and fone connection for free ?
12:21:33 <Speuler> for the rest, all old machines in the cafe have been thrown out now
12:21:47 <Speuler> I440r: there's nothing like phone here for internet
12:22:04 <Speuler> by "internet" i mean permanent connection
12:22:25 <Speuler> a number of art shops and hippie bars want to go internet
12:22:27 <I440r> oh. how do you get onto the net then ?
12:22:27 <I440r> lol
12:22:42 <I440r> cool!
12:22:52 <Speuler> well, ethernet to whatever-modem-to-whatever-permanent-line
12:22:57 <I440r> set up a local lan from store to store all going to your cafe
12:23:07 <Speuler> nope.
12:23:13 <I440r> going to do it with physical connections or some sort of radio connection?
12:23:14 <Speuler> that's a different place
12:23:37 <Speuler> physical, but i might hook up wireless lan to the car
12:23:50 <I440r> you could make the cafe a mini isp
12:23:57 <Speuler> place not related to this cafe
12:24:03 <Speuler> but walking distance
12:24:33 <Speuler> indeed we are considering setting up a bluetooth access point
12:24:44 <I440r> oh
12:24:44 <Speuler> or wireless lan
12:24:47 <Speuler> or both
12:25:08 <Speuler> lots of americans in the cafe recently
12:25:32 <I440r> who is paying to set all this up ?
12:25:46 <Speuler> where ? the cafe of the camp fire place ?
12:25:48 <Speuler> or ...
12:26:11 <I440r> either
12:26:11 <I440r> b oth
12:26:22 <Speuler> for the camp fire place i might donate an obsolete machine from the cafe
12:26:35 <Speuler> for free consumption, supposedly
12:27:10 <Speuler> cafe: the owner of course (purchased by a leasing company, leased by cafe)
12:27:25 <Speuler> but that's comparably cheap stuff
12:27:30 <I440r> what machines were in the cafe ?
12:27:40 <I440r> the ones being thrown out imean
12:28:05 <Speuler> everything between 486-120 and K6-500
12:28:06 <I440r> motherboard, cpu, ram/disk ?  what sort of equipment is being junked ?
12:28:12 <I440r> aha
12:28:21 <Speuler> most hard disk are 2...4 gbyte
12:28:32 <Speuler> usually not more than 64 mb per machine
12:28:39 <Speuler> but i have been gathering ram already
12:29:00 <Speuler> for a gateway, anything would do
12:29:15 <Speuler> even a 486 would be overkill
12:30:03 <Speuler> more and more gets paid by setting up machines :)
12:30:26 <I440r> yes if you wernt a gazillion miles away i would ask you to ship all the CPU's ram chips and hard drives to me here (at my expense of corse) but from europe thats a bit far to ship junk hehehe
12:30:29 <CrowKiller> <idea>A 1 bit forth engine could be implemented as a bit stream turing machine with infinite roll only in one direction, and a logic stack (shiftregister) made to accept arguments(bits) as they are sent </idea>
12:30:36 <Speuler> that's now several restaurants, different lodging places and so on ...
12:30:58 <Speuler> CrowKiller: yes
12:31:16 <Speuler> CrowKiller: the memory interface is kind of inefficient
12:31:33 <Speuler> CrowKiller: (implementing absolute addresses on a turing machines)
12:31:36 <Speuler> but possible
12:31:46 <Speuler> i found out how
12:33:14 <CrowKiller> when doing hardware
12:33:27 <CrowKiller> you can start from one bit structure and extrapolate in logic
12:35:49 <CrowKiller> like the cell that actually receive the bit stream first in the chip get: a signal input, a signal override input, a Input pin and an Output pin
12:36:09 <CrowKiller> this circuit is very simple, a one bit shift register could implement that along its edges nicely
12:37:18 <CrowKiller> the very first block is accompanied by "an intelligent program", coded as a ifzero send signal(0) else send signal(1)
12:37:47 <CrowKiller> a simple program in forth that could be implemented in hardware with a logic gate
12:38:04 <CrowKiller> the entire chip could be then made scriptable
12:38:20 <CrowKiller> but not automatically
12:38:39 <CrowKiller> by hand, like chuck did for his own chips
12:39:40 <CrowKiller> anyway im not expert in asynchronous design, so ill end bragging now
12:39:47 <CrowKiller> ;p
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12:59:49 <I440r> bubye mrreach heh
12:59:59 <I440r> im outa here ina  few minutes
13:00:19 <CrowKiller> see ya then ;p
13:00:40 <I440r> heh
13:00:50 <I440r> gotta do some work setting up the gun store
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14:54:59 <TheBlueWizard> hiya all
15:00:36 <rob_ert> Hi TBW :)
15:04:02 <TheBlueWizard> hiya rob_ert
15:21:39 <Speuler> g'day tbw
15:21:51 <TheBlueWizard> hiya Speuler
15:22:16 <Speuler> you were struggling with some email setup problem recently
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15:22:42 <Speuler> have you managed to solve it ?
15:22:56 <futhin> solve what
15:23:13 <Speuler> TheBlueWizard: have you managed to solve it ?
15:24:35 <TheBlueWizard> oh...I solved the fetchmail problem, yes....now I have to solve the postfix problem :P
15:24:35 <futhin> omg, quicktime is the stupidest thing ever
15:24:53 <Speuler> TheBlueWizard: i do run postfix here
15:25:29 <TheBlueWizard> so you know some stuff about postfix?
15:25:33 <Speuler> but didn't change so much in the maintainer-provided config files
15:26:51 * TheBlueWizard is currently on Windoze machine
15:27:32 <Speuler> before i used sendmail
15:27:57 <TheBlueWizard> when I get around to it, I will fire up my Linux and withsp here, I might try to solve it.  Unfortunately, I already downloaded all emails recently...oh well! :)
15:28:11 <Speuler> looked at exim but couldn't get it working right
15:28:23 <TheBlueWizard> I don't want to deal with a big complicated thing like sendmail
15:28:58 <Speuler> yes, postfix seems to be much simpler
15:30:15 <TheBlueWizard> the problem was the missing directory, it seems...I just can't figure out what is the correct structure to set up...I have very little experience with mail agents
15:31:45 <Speuler> what distribution are you using ?
15:32:09 <TheBlueWizard> Debian
15:32:14 <Speuler> me too
15:32:20 <Speuler> should install allright
15:33:01 <TheBlueWizard> yeah :)   oh, it was installed alright, but failed to function properly, as best as I can tell
15:33:52 <TheBlueWizard> maybe it's cuz of my misconfiguring...but I don't think so...then again, I don't know much hehe...but I need to get away from that damned dependency on Winblows
15:35:15 <Speuler> if you're on the linux box again, we can give it a try to step through the settings
15:35:36 <Speuler> not today though
15:35:43 <Speuler> i'll be leaving in about 15 min
15:36:07 * TheBlueWizard nods
15:36:16 <TheBlueWizard> there's always a tomorrow :)
15:36:22 <TheBlueWizard> thanks
15:36:28 <Speuler> npaa
15:36:42 <TheBlueWizard> "aa"?
15:36:45 <Speuler> at all
15:36:50 <TheBlueWizard> ah :)
15:37:27 <TheBlueWizard> for a second I thought there might be a new group similar to those vile MPAA or RIAA... :)
15:38:01 <Speuler> like openbsa
15:39:41 <Speuler> or the secure windows consortium
15:40:51 <TheBlueWizard> hehe
15:41:31 <Speuler> platform for consistent oxymoron development
15:42:04 * TheBlueWizard smiles
15:42:23 <TheBlueWizard> yup...a very messy one to boot
15:44:29 --- mode: ChanServ set +o futhin
15:44:41 --- topic: set to 'Our mantra: Good code is written code | Forth code repository - http://doesnotexist.yet | BEAR you idiot!' by futhin
15:44:47 <futhin> lol
15:45:40 --- topic: set to 'Our mantra: Good code is written code | Forth code repository - http://doesnotexist.yet | BEAR you idiot! "BEAR guns" is correct' by futhin
15:47:07 --- nick: futhin -> grammarpolice
15:47:20 <Speuler> g'd night
15:47:33 <TheBlueWizard> bye Speuler
15:47:45 <rob_ert> Night, Speuler.
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15:52:39 * grammarpolice flys off, to save the day!
15:52:41 --- quit: grammarpolice ("bye")
15:53:30 <TheBlueWizard> and lose the night? :)
16:07:38 <TheBlueWizard> gotta go and eat, then hack on my code!  bye all
16:07:48 <rob_ert> :)
16:08:02 <TheBlueWizard> bye rob_ert
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16:28:00 <TheBlueWizard> hiya I440r!!!
16:28:21 <I440r> tbw!
16:28:27 <rob_ert> Hi :)
16:28:27 <I440r> :)
16:28:45 <TheBlueWizard> so how are things going?
16:29:14 <I440r> im trying to write an isforth tutorial :)
16:29:43 <TheBlueWizard> ah cool!
16:30:12 <TheBlueWizard> I sent your email to my friend...I haven't heard from him lately...guess he is VERY BUSY! :)
16:30:24 <TheBlueWizard> s/email/email address/
16:30:56 <I440r> ive got :)
16:31:13 <I440r> erm i was gona say ive got about 4 or 5 paragraphs writen so far heh
16:31:33 <TheBlueWizard> heh...well that's a start
16:32:13 <I440r> heh
16:32:36 <TheBlueWizard> and how's your job search?
16:33:03 <I440r> unproductive
16:33:29 <I440r> cpl of agencies sent my resume out for some prospective contracts
16:33:38 <I440r> but no interview or jobs yet:)
16:33:55 * TheBlueWizard nods
17:00:28 <TheBlueWizard> well, gotta go for real...must eat and hack code :)
17:00:32 <TheBlueWizard> bye
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20:20:59 <grammarpolice> sup i440r
20:21:56 <grammarpolice> sup fracta|
20:22:10 <I440r> hi :)
20:22:18 <grammarpolice> i440r: BEAR GUNS!
20:22:22 <I440r> futhin stop hiding :P
20:22:38 <grammarpolice> nothing gets me angrier than reading #forth logs ;)
20:23:17 <I440r> nonono bears with guns would shoot back!
20:23:21 <grammarpolice> whasuppppppp i440r? comeon, i'm a little bored right now :P
20:23:33 <grammarpolice> bears SHOULD shoot back
20:23:49 <grammarpolice> it is their manifest destiny, blahblahblahblah
20:24:37 <I440r> futhin code my help :P
20:24:58 <I440r> im writing a tutorial for isfotth
20:25:19 <I440r> err
20:25:19 <grammarpolice> no no no
20:25:27 <grammarpolice> you code the help system i write the stuff :P
20:25:31 <I440r> isforth  even
20:25:31 <grammarpolice> lol
20:25:34 <grammarpolice> a mix anyways
20:26:00 <grammarpolice> hmpf
20:26:08 <grammarpolice> i don't have a fast connection to a shell account
20:26:44 <I440r> you dont know ennuf about isforth :P
20:27:18 <grammarpolice> well you write up on the more advanced stuff
20:27:40 <grammarpolice> i write up on the beginner stuff..  dup and friends :P
20:28:08 <grammarpolice> i already have stuff that's been written up
20:28:31 <grammarpolice> let's figure out the code part
20:28:34 <I440r> lol
20:28:35 <grammarpolice> that reads out the file
20:29:03 <I440r> k
20:29:03 <I440r> where
20:29:08 <grammarpolice> where?
20:29:34 <grammarpolice> in the isforth directory :P
20:30:16 * I440r goes to look....
20:30:16 <I440r> heh
20:30:16 <I440r> nope
20:30:16 <I440r> dont see it
20:31:11 <grammarpolice> don't tell me isforth executable goes into some lame /bin or /sbin directory.. god linux is so gay :P
20:32:02 <grammarpolice> hm
20:32:09 <grammarpolice> s/gay/lame
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21:33:36 <I440r> bath time!!! :)
21:33:51 <I440r> hi :)
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23:59:59 --- log: ended forth/02.06.08