00:00:00 --- log: started forth/02.05.29 00:32:46 --- join: davidw (~davidw@adsl-125-109.38-151.net24.it) joined #forth 00:38:36 --- join: Serg_penguin (~snaga_NOI@nat-ch0.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 00:39:52 --- quit: Serg_penguin (Client Quit) 00:55:28 --- part: qless left #forth 01:32:59 --- join: Fare (fare@samaris.tunes.org) joined #forth 01:53:29 * Oscarian is away: playing squash 02:01:34 --- join: k0rs (~kors@nbc-2.ukr.net) joined #forth 02:01:44 Hi people. 04:27:04 --- join: Serg_penguin (~snaga_NOI@nat-ch0.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 04:27:05 --- quit: k0rs (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 04:30:19 --- part: Serg_penguin left #forth 05:10:48 --- join: sif (~siforth@ip68-9-58-81.ri.ri.cox.net) joined #forth 05:10:48 Type sif: (or /msg sif to play in private) 05:27:53 * Oscarian is back (gone 03:34:25) 05:33:02 --- join: Serg_penguin (~snaga_NOI@nat-ch0.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 05:33:33 --- part: Serg_penguin left #forth 05:46:10 --- nick: Oscarian -> \ 05:46:37 --- nick: \ -> Oscarian 06:25:04 --- quit: Oscarian ("sleep time") 06:53:50 --- quit: Etaoin ("raise MemoryError, "oops, someone took the last jar of internet"") 07:07:48 --- join: Serg_penguin (~snaga_NOI@nat-ch0.nat.comex.ru) joined #forth 07:08:04 --- part: Serg_penguin left #forth 07:18:03 --- join: Etaoin (~david@ljk2-25.sat.net) joined #forth 07:29:09 --- join: tmcm (~sdjuenv@enkum.stalphonsos.com) joined #forth 07:54:08 --- quit: Fare ("Connection reset by pear") 07:57:03 --- join: cleverdra (julianf@0-1pool36-119.nas2.florence1.sc.us.da.qwest.net) joined #forth 08:11:17 Hi. 08:12:23 hello rob_ert 08:26:29 --- quit: Etaoin (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 08:29:21 --- quit: tmcm ("using sirc version 2.211+ssfe") 08:39:56 --- join: futhin (thin@h24-64-175-61.cg.shawcable.net) joined #forth 08:40:06 Hey yo! 08:40:12 --- join: I440r (~mark4@1Cust35.tnt1.bloomington.in.da.uu.net) joined #forth 08:40:13 sup yo 08:40:32 Hi I440r. 08:41:53 hi 08:42:01 couldnt log in yesterday at all 08:42:05 fones were disconnected 08:42:24 Aw :( 08:42:32 lol 08:42:33 You just missed Jeff Fox then :) 08:43:35 just missed when ? 08:43:38 just now ? 08:43:41 Nah 08:43:45 Yesterday. 08:43:59 No, really, except it was Jeff Foxworthy. Not as interesting. 08:45:28 if you use hoppees #9 as aftershave.... you know your a redneck 08:45:51 What is hoppees #9 ? 08:46:15 hoppes #9 is nitro solvent 08:46:19 used to clean guns 08:46:23 aftershave is just plain stupid ;P 08:46:27 removes lead and nitro 08:46:49 futhin thats royal from someone who doesnt need to shave yet :) 08:47:20 no 08:47:23 heh 08:47:26 i've been shaving for years now 08:47:29 I, a person who shaves, do not use aftershave. 08:47:37 neither do i 08:48:05 It's just that I have insensitive skin. 08:48:21 i440r: hello? i'm 21, been shaving since 16-17, grew beards in grade 11 :P 08:48:38 I should be shaving, but coding is funnier. 08:49:26 futhin heh 09:01:01 i got that itterative towers of hanoi program written 09:01:12 but i made a slight change and its b0rken right now heh lol 09:01:16 need to fix it then release 09:03:55 wouldn't you hate to get a job? 09:04:03 you are so productive without one :P 09:04:16 coding isforth 09:05:11 lol 09:05:19 i need a job or i lose my house 09:05:30 how can i code isforth if i live in the barn accross the road ? 09:05:59 --- join: futhin_ (thin@h24-64-175-61.cg.shawcable.net) joined #forth 09:06:19 wtf 09:06:20 Walk across the road and enter my house, where I will lend you a computer. 09:07:16 everyone has a computer 09:07:25 No, everyone does not have a computer. 09:07:36 yes they have their own organic computer 09:07:50 The brain is not a computer. It may be modelled as a computer. 09:07:52 cleverdra: you live accrossthe road from me??? heh lol 09:08:01 I440r - err, didn't you just say that you did? 09:08:23 clever no - i said i would have to move accross the street to the barn there :P 09:08:50 There are starving African children who, at this very moment, do *not* have computers! 09:09:10 --- quit: futhin (carter.openprojects.net irc.openprojects.net) 09:09:25 They cannot buy them, either, because they do have nearly enough money -- and, dispite common wisdom, computers have not gotten so cheap! 09:10:26 * cleverdra will attack futhin's borgeousie computers-are-everywhere meme later. 09:10:33 you speak in empty content 09:10:51 obviously everything is moot if you do not treat the "computer" as a metaphor for the brain 09:10:54 which was my intent 09:10:57 now fuck off 09:12:21 i care not one whit for quibbling anymore 09:12:29 people on irc like to quibble i guess 09:12:51 but i don't care anymore 09:13:08 futhin - that's a NiN song. Ever hear it? 09:13:23 nope 09:13:37 It's good. 09:14:43 course, i might be in a bad mood because i'm on a extremely low carbohydrates diet.. 09:15:36 where the body goes into ketosis, in which it produces ketones and everything switches over to using ketones for energy instead of carbs 09:15:48 futhin, I am trying to express my mental-state and I am failing. Let it be said that my everything before this sentence was in play of some kind. Also, I'm not psychic, so it's only when people tell me to fuck off that I become clued to an ENTIRELY DIFFERENT ~~ something. It always confuses me when that happens. 09:15:50 and the insulin level is drastically reduced 09:15:56 futhin ? 09:16:01 futhins - low insulin inspires bad moods? 09:16:14 wtf are ketones ? 09:16:25 no, the side affect is low energy, and i'm a little naseous 09:16:25 I440r - a type of chemical. 09:16:47 futhin thats your body tellyou you to stop being stupid 09:16:55 your body NEEDS carbs 09:16:59 I440r - hydrocarbin with two parts and between them a carbon with a double-bond to an oxygen. I think. 09:17:27 the insulin level is drastically reduced, and as insulin is needed to store fat, there is no fat stored.. 09:17:33 the fat is instead converted to ketones 09:17:47 futhin - ah, is that your intent? 09:18:07 people on this diet can lose 60 pounds of fat & water (but not muscle) in two months 09:18:46 there's water loss because of glycogen depletion.. glycogen contains alot of water itself 09:19:25 futhin are you overweight ? 09:19:29 yeah, it's not healthy for the long-term 09:19:37 but it's fine for a month or two 09:19:44 a little overweight 09:19:46 i'm at 220 09:19:54 i want to get down to 170 09:19:57 or 160 09:20:00 im 140 lb 09:20:19 * cleverdra . o O (Dr. Atkins book?) 09:20:27 when i get down to 170 i'll start strength training 09:20:42 yeah dr. atkins diet is similar 09:20:49 i just call it the ketogenic diet 09:21:21 i440r: how tall are you? 09:21:30 6 ft 1 09:21:39 hm, pretty skinny then? 09:21:42 yes 09:21:49 and i eat HUGE ammounts of food 09:21:50 got any muscle? 09:21:52 lol 09:22:01 are you strong? 09:22:04 not realy lol 09:22:13 if i work out im stronger 09:22:15 * cleverdra needs to lose about 30 pounds in 17 weeks, so this might be a good idea. 09:23:32 17 weeks? 09:23:46 yeah, i got BEFORE pictures taken of me on the may long weekend 09:23:59 i'm aiming to lose at least 40 pounds in two months 09:24:17 you probably don't have to go too hardcore 09:24:23 futhin - low energy in that you feel tired all the time? 09:24:30 simply reduce your carb intake as much as you can 09:24:35 like, stop eating bread 09:24:41 and avoid sugar 09:24:48 eat everything else 09:24:51 and you should see some loss 09:24:55 i'm not eating any carbs at all 09:25:05 but i think i'm allowed to eat 60 g of carbs a day 09:25:11 so i should start eating salads and stuff 09:25:18 i'm on the 2nd day of the diet 09:25:41 if i wasn't too lazy to cook, it might be more enjoyable 09:25:48 What have you eaten, so far? 09:25:54 like cook meatloaf and stuff :P 09:26:53 i've eaten hotdogs, hamburgers, cheese, "tuna surprise" which involves mixing up two eggs with a can of tuna and chopping up some cheese and microwaving the whole thing and stirring it up 09:27:30 hm, i saw some stuff on the internet that you can cook with 09:27:37 like carbless flour 09:27:40 etc 09:27:44 so that would be interesting 09:27:56 like to make meat loaf 09:27:57 "one large chicken egg has 0.6 gm carbs" 09:28:12 I guess that gm means g 09:28:15 yeah there's always some carbs present 09:28:19 even in cheese 09:28:33 but as long as you keep under 60 g of carbs a day 09:28:42 your body goes into ketosis 09:28:57 in the first week your supposed to lose 10 pounds, mostly water & glycogen 09:29:18 because glycogen gets depleted from the liver before the body goes into ketosis 09:29:39 assuming it doesnt kill you :P 09:29:56 i know several people who've done this diet without any problems 09:30:01 What does the liver use glycogen for? 09:30:25 you eat carbs, liver converts that to glycogen, produces insulin, etc 09:30:58 the presence of carbs/glyocogen in the liver causes insulin to be produced 09:31:25 ah. 09:31:32 additionally, a low-carb diet reduces craving for food 09:31:37 carb = craving for food 09:31:50 craving for more carbs :P 09:32:09 sneaky carbs. 09:32:18 yup 09:32:37 i go to safeway and i see everything has carbs and i get all pissed off :P 09:33:13 there's another diet that you could do 09:33:20 might be easier 09:33:35 OK 09:33:35 basically, you just take a bite of food once an hour 09:33:45 like a sandwhich 09:33:47 a bite an hour 09:33:59 by the 2nd day, my appetite was drastically reduced 09:34:22 i did it with a sub from subway cause i was too lazy to make my own sandwhiches (and presence of bread in my house gets devoured immediately) 09:34:46 Huh. How does that work? 09:34:49 the sub would last the whole day 09:35:00 just eat it a bite an hour 09:35:15 and chew it slowly, the chewing mechanism helps to reduce appetite 09:35:35 i would take the largest possible bite 09:35:47 and the sub would last the whole day 09:36:20 you could do some strength training.. for every pound of muscle you put on, you burn 350 more calories in the day i think 09:36:20 I'll try that. 09:36:55 so why do you want to lose some weight by 17 weeks from now? :) 09:37:51 your russian mail-ordered bride ariving in 17 weeks? ;) 09:38:01 mmmm. no +) 09:38:26 =) I mean. I have no idea what +) signifies. 09:38:50 one eye or something :P 09:38:53 monocyclops 09:39:03 In 17 weeks I must be within weight requirements to join the US Air Force. 09:39:11 ah 09:39:23 check out www.superslow.com 09:39:50 it's a new/different strength training methodology 09:39:51 I think I've seen +) in a cartoon somewhere... 09:39:56 OK 09:40:14 you do the most intense workout in like 20 minutes, once a week :) 09:41:13 hmm 09:41:17 don't be afraid of building big muscles, that won't really happen because it's not isolation training, or training too frequently (building muscles ontop of your dead muscle cells before the body has time to repair it), or taking drugs 09:41:38 i personally don't care for the bulked up look 09:41:44 only for strength 09:41:55 & fitness 09:42:21 superslow is 10 seconds positive and 10 seconds negative (concentric, eccentric) 09:42:35 like with bench pressing, 10 seconds up, 10 seconds down 09:42:39 very intense 09:42:53 pick a heavy weight, because you want to do about 4 reps 09:43:02 and achieve muscle fatigue quickly 09:43:14 then you rest and recover for 6 days 09:43:49 there's three main exercises.. bench press, body squat, and chin ups 09:44:03 the negative part is pretty important (the eccentric part) 09:44:23 if you can't do the pull up part of chinups, just do the eccentric part, lower yourself down 09:44:40 aim for 10 to 20 seconds for the eccentric part if you aren't doing the pullups 09:44:55 body squat is a full body exercise 09:45:26 generally the thinking is that exercise your big muscles, and your smaller muscles will follow.. (because all the muslces are interdependant, intertwined) 09:46:55 and the exercises being slow is supposed to be a lot safer 09:47:15 the body's safety mechanisms kick in and protect your bones & ankes/elbows 09:47:16 er 09:47:19 knees/elbows 09:47:31 protect them how? 09:47:45 instead of doing it fast and explosively and putting more strain on the joints than necessary 09:48:05 protects them by making the muscles do the work 09:48:10 puts the load on the muscles 09:48:34 the slow training was designed to put maximal load on the muscles 09:48:36 and not anything else 09:48:43 because you are training your muscles 09:49:48 recovery time is important too.. the super slow people think that training too frequently interrupts the body's repair & muscle building process 09:49:53 Ah. As opposed to putting the load on your hands, which is what I remember from timed pushups in school. 09:51:47 So are you supposed to actively between exercises? Avoid heavy lifting? 09:51:53 actively relax. 09:51:57 yeah 09:52:06 but recreation is ok 09:52:31 at www.superslow.com after you click on the main logo, and then the articles link, you should see "supplement to second edition" 09:52:56 it outlines the program of exercise the best 09:53:18 most of the other articles just explain the why of the exercising methodology 09:53:51 OK. 09:54:05 i haven't really done this yet 09:54:11 my friend told me about it 09:54:17 as well as the ketogenic diet 09:54:28 also i have some stretch marks on my arms 09:54:37 so i don't want to work out until i lose about 40 pounds 09:54:51 in order to make sure i don't worsen the strentch marks 09:55:15 er, i don't want to work out _seriously_ 09:55:32 i've done the superslow exercises a bit 09:55:51 just getting myself comfortable with doing body squats * bench presses 09:55:57 s/*/& 09:57:12 Are you thinking of any particular exercise methodology for the serious exercise, after you lose the 40 pounds? 09:59:54 the super slow 10:00:55 so far i haven't really done the superslow, except to familiarise myself with it 10:05:48 because i haven't done heavy enough weights & enough reps to reach full muscle fatigue 10:06:22 you are aiming for 4 reps.. but if you can do a few more, then you do it.. and next time use a heavier weight 10:14:39 what do you think about it? :P 10:14:44 --- nick: futhin_ -> futhin 10:19:45 I think superslow and your ketogenic diet are both wonderful ideas, and that I won't have to commit seppuku in 17 weeks =) 10:20:33 These w/machine w/barbell w/out that the supplement mentions: are these alternatives or all part of the same workout? 10:21:54 alternatives 10:22:20 i'm just going to stick with the barbell/dumbell exercises 10:22:30 Why? 10:22:52 well most machines aren't designed to handle the eccentric part of the exercise very well 10:23:09 if i had some super slow machines then i would use the machines i think 10:23:33 and i don't really care for the w/out exercises because you can't increase weights easily, etc.. 10:23:52 and hib adduction and hip abduction doesn't sound like fun ;P 10:32:48 yeah, and then i'll take aikido! :P 10:33:00 all of this stuff has lots in common with forth 10:33:12 ;) 10:33:18 Oh, that's a joke. 10:33:22 too bad i440r does some weird martial arts 10:33:28 no not really a joke 10:33:36 except to i440r 10:33:39 OK, what's the commonality? 10:34:09 forth has a sense of rightness.. aikido has a sense of rightness.. super slow has a sense of rightness, etc :P 10:34:32 hmm. 10:35:02 futhin - no, please extend the etc =) 10:35:11 heh 10:36:26 naw :P 10:37:58 less is more 10:38:12 another commonality 10:44:43 less is MORE than more :) 10:46:20 Look towards unix paging applications and see that this is so. 10:47:37 heh 11:34:50 --- join: kc5tja (~kc5tja@stampede.org) joined #forth 11:35:12 Hi :) 11:35:19 Hello 11:44:27 hi 11:58:45 hehe google now finds the NEW isforth web page when you search :) 12:01:15 :)) 12:03:35 robert did you port all those changes into my sockets.f ? 12:03:53 Oh... no :) 12:04:01 I haven't touched forth for a while. 12:04:07 Working on a text editor for real mode. 12:04:12 well get snappy with it!! :) 12:05:01 real mode? 12:05:31 as oposed to pmode 12:06:17 Yeah, 8086 emulation. 12:06:36 Real mode is the default operating mode of the x86 series of processors; 1MB memory limitation, no interprocess protection, and 16-bit operation. 12:06:42 Also sometimes called MS-DOS mode. 12:06:57 * rob_ert uses FreeDOS on the computer in question. 12:08:30 --- quit: futhin ("gym") 12:18:11 hoo wah 12:19:56 wah ooh 12:48:01 --- quit: cleverdra ("Leaving") 12:55:27 fixed my itterative towers of hanoi code heh 12:55:34 got it coded last nite 12:55:39 broke it before i went to sleep :P 13:02:39 --- join: Stepan (~stepan@pD9E5368D.dip.t-dialin.net) joined #forth 13:02:42 hi :) 13:03:20 hi 13:08:38 --- nick: kc5tja -> kc-food 13:56:10 --- quit: rob_ert (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 13:56:40 Stepan: you there? 14:02:49 yep.. halw ways 14:07:19 :) 14:07:30 just chekin :) 14:07:36 you know linux kernel syscalls ? 14:14:46 --- quit: davidw (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 14:17:28 --- join: XeF4 (~XeF4@dsl-XIV-08.kotikaista.weppi.fi) joined #forth 14:17:49 xe! 14:18:02 I4! 14:18:48 were both cool cuz we have the #4 in our nicks... 14:18:58 but im cooler cuz i have the number 4 in my name too :) 14:19:08 you must be twice as cool and value your 4s 10x as much 14:20:29 ya !!! :P~ 14:20:47 * XeF4 tires of walking around with square 3.5" tits and decides a wireless lan would be a Good Thing 14:33:56 --- nick: kc-food -> kc5tja 14:34:12 back 14:38:51 wb 14:38:59 just posted my itterative hanoi on clf 14:39:05 with alot of typos! 14:39:07 * kc5tja nods 14:39:07 grrr ol 14:39:08 lol 14:39:27 * kc5tja is still hacking away on this program. I'm -><- that close to completing it and releasing it to the department. 14:39:48 it would be interesting to do a regional map of "alot" usage 14:39:55 14:43:40 alot ? 14:43:43 u mean allot ? 14:44:16 no, I mean merging "a lot" into one word :) 14:44:52 oh 14:45:05 alot means many :) 14:45:08 not few :) 14:45:16 a --- lot :) 14:46:04 <--- native English speaker =P 14:46:29 xe lol i know :P 14:46:41 i just make it up as i go along :P 14:46:43 a long ? 14:46:47 lol 14:47:34 the anti-C lynch mob (of which I am a proud member) would have your hide for "a long".. 14:48:38 lol 14:48:46 can i join ??? 14:48:49 :) 14:48:54 i hate c more and more every day 14:49:23 No you don't. 14:49:33 You don't know the meaning of the word "hate" when used in the context of C. 14:49:49 I, however, have to work with broken compilers and horrible cycle times as part of my job. 14:49:59 I know what it means to hate C... ;D 14:50:22 And the Forth underground is afoot here at work. 14:50:42 I've never *hated* C itself, but I've had some uh.. sentiments about the C/Unix culture when I had to code for it daily 14:50:47 * kc5tja just hopes he can slip it in under the radar without too many people noticing or caring. 14:50:59 :) 14:51:02 XeF4: Pretty much the same thing here. 14:51:30 XeF4: C, 10 years ago, was workable and quite usable. Today, it's every bit as intertwined with the host operating system you're developing for as Forth is to the hardware. 14:55:42 WOOOOOHOOOOOOOO!!! 14:55:52 I am the anti-BUG!!! 14:56:22 Ph34r my 1337 ( coding sk1lz. 14:56:28 jrjr 14:56:54 heh even 14:56:56 Witness my power, as I deliver a C package that meets all the requirements, on time and under budget ... only 3 months late. 14:57:06 lol 14:57:08 (but I'm ahead of our 3rd schedule date) 14:57:12 on time 3 months late ? :) 14:57:27 When you keep slipping the date, you create a new schedule. 14:57:36 This time, I'm ahead of schedule... :D 14:57:43 But, we *ARE* under budget. 14:57:47 That's a good thing. 15:00:41 by that reasoning you are ahed of schedule no matter HOW late you are :) 15:02:47 --- quit: I440r ("Reality Strikes Again") 15:03:14 --- join: I440r (~mark4@1Cust35.tnt1.bloomington.in.da.uu.net) joined #forth 15:03:43 wtf :) 15:04:46 Well, not always true. :) 15:05:16 You can still end up behind schedule if you complete your task before the task's due date has been officially slipped. 15:05:45 That's a situation to avoid, because if you have an officially slipped schedule, the manager can usually cover your butt by throwing in a bunch of worthless buzzwords to his manager. :) 15:05:52 so it's better to be a lot behind schedule than a little bit behind.. 15:05:57 Yes 15:06:00 lol 15:06:07 Why do you think Windows 94 came out a whole year behind schedule? :) 15:06:18 95 u mean 15:06:22 Windows 95 has a better marketing ring to it anyway. 15:06:25 No, I mean Windows 94. 15:06:26 lol 15:06:30 AKA "Chicago." 15:06:34 oh 15:06:52 It was due out in 1994, but it slipped into 1995. 15:20:42 --- join: Fare (fare@samaris.tunes.org) joined #forth 15:21:00 hi fare 15:23:41 lo 15:24:44 just coded an itterative towrrs of hanoy heh 15:39:53 --- quit: XeF4 (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 15:41:40 --- join: XeF4 (vidqfm@12-245-116-85.client.attbi.com) joined #forth 15:50:53 fare are you there ? 15:55:30 kind of 15:56:16 --- quit: I440r (Excess Flood) 15:56:35 --- join: I440r (~mark4@1Cust35.tnt1.bloomington.in.da.uu.net) joined #forth 15:56:55 wb 15:57:16 I440r: syscalls? a bit. I know they are a lot different on the hammer 15:57:18 argh 15:57:20 u there fare ? 15:57:23 no 15:57:23 heh thanx 15:57:28 sorry.. was on the phone for a while 15:57:28 I'm just faking 15:57:42 i need to know if mmap was available before 2.4 15:57:46 its a 6 parameter syscall 15:57:50 of course 15:57:59 but it was slightly different 15:58:08 and i was under the impression that any syscall that uses 6 parameters is 2.4 only 15:58:09 errr 15:58:14 see the "old_mmap" interface in new kernels. 15:58:24 aha 15:58:38 (which was just "mmap" in old kernels) 15:58:44 no man page 15:59:15 of course -- it's just the same mmap, with a different convention for passing arguments 15:59:21 I440r: put mmap(2) arguments in memory and point ebx at the base of that. 15:59:23 (and maybe a few flags less) 15:59:33 xef4 aha cool 15:59:44 XeF4: maybe a bit more difficult 15:59:55 Fare: it worked for me. 16:00:08 ok 16:00:17 all im interestd in is mapping a source file as read only... 16:01:36 wierd thing 16:01:45 just call the C function 16:02:01 err what c function 16:02:09 and/or decompile the C function. 16:02:11 mmap() 16:02:24 oooh 16:02:26 yea heh 16:02:36 ive done that with parts of libc already 16:02:45 (or read the sources) 16:02:53 the sources tell me fuck all 16:02:56 totally unreadable 16:03:21 they include header files that include header files taht define bit masks that include header files that and/or and xor previously defined masks 16:03:31 in my 2.4.18 sources, it's NR_mmap and NR_mmap2 16:03:32 which is a fucking nightmare to try unwind 16:03:33 Fare: I found that passing convention from objdumping libc.. 16:03:44 XeF4: ok 16:04:02